Teacher In Teddy 'Insult' Faces 40 Lashes

[Night Rider]

Updated:19:32, Monday November 26, 2007

http://static.sky.com/images/pictures/1615678.jpg

http://static.sky.com/images/pictures/1615543.jpg

A British teacher is facing 40 lashes in a Sudanese jail if convicted of insulting Islam's prophet by letting children name a teddy bear Mohammed.

Locked up: Gillian GibbonsGillian Gibbons, 54, from Liverpool, was arrested on suspicion of blasphemy on Sunday.

Ms Gibbons allowed her class of seven-year-olds at the Unity High School in Khartoum to name a teddy bear Mohammed as part of a lesson about animals' habitats.

Mohammed is sacred to Islamic philosophy and the penalty for blasphemy is 40 lashes, a large fine or a jail term. The British Embassy in Khartoum confirmed the arrest.

A source close to the school said one teacher was angered by the naming of the teddy bear and complained to the headmistress.

Ms Gibbons was a deputy headteacher at Liverpool's Dovecot Primary School from 2002 to this July when she left for Sudan.

Her MP, Louise Ellman, told Sky News: "This is very worrying. I understand Ms Gibbons is a very respected person, she is held in the highest regard and is seen as a person of the highest integrity.

"I'm in touch with the Foreign Office and it's right that they should be working hard to bring about a positive end."

There is no specific, or explicit ban in the Koran on images of Allah or the Prophet Mohammed - be they carved, painted or drawn.


School children named teddy bearHowever, chapter 42, verse 11 of the Koran does say: "[Allah is] the originator of the heavens and the earth... [there is] nothing like a likeness of Him."

The fear is that images could give rise to idolatry but in this case the response in Sudan, which has been governed by strict Islamic Sharia law since 1983, has been unusually harsh, said Hassan Aberdeen, a researcher at the Oxford Centre for Islamic Studies.

"It seems that the parents made an issue of the teacher calling an animal Mohammed," he said. "Calling him a dog or a pig is insulting, but this is just a teddy bear."

"This could be more to do with who is saying it than what is being said. It might not have been an issue if this was a Sudanese person.

"The fact that this was a European teacher is highly likely to be one of the key causes."

[Quinn]

Seems reasonable.

-Quinn

[timxxx]

Only 40,things are getting soft these days.When l was young a man she wound at least had a limb amputated.

[biguy4tvtscd]

The fear is that images could give rise to idolatry

ROFL

Yeah, I can picture it now. Let this go unchecked and next thing you know the entire country is worshiping teddy bears.

I'll be saying it until I die (whether naturally or beheaded by religious extremists)...RELIGION POISONS EVERYTHING


EDIT TO ADD: Could be worse, they could taser her.

[Night Rider]

Seems reasonable.

-Quinn

The journalist didn't really explain the story very well, but it's been all over the UK news. Basically the teacher didn't realize the no tolerance attitude Muslims have against insulting Mohammed, and it was a complete misunderstanding on her part. Now she's facing 40 lashes and/or a jail sentence for her naivety. Pretty harsh though if you ask me.

[suckseed]

Gotta love religious superstitions. Hey, mohammed...you out there? You oughtta check on your ant farm, things aren't looking so good.
*silence*
just as I thought.

[Night Rider]

RELIGION POISONS EVERYTHING

I have to agree with you there..

[GroobySteven]

Stupid Scouser.

Why did she go to Sudan to teach when SHE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE LAWS.

Out of all the countries, in all the world - she goes to a Sharia Law one ...

[Quinn]

Seems reasonable.

-Quinn

The journalist didn't really explain the story very well, but it's been all over the UK news. Basically the teacher didn't realize the no tolerance attitude Muslims have against insulting Mohammed, and it was a complete misunderstanding on her part. Now she's facing 40 lashes and/or a jail sentence for her naivety. Pretty harsh though if you ask me.

Agreed. I was being sarcastic. I'm not a fan or organized religion and definitely not a fan of Islam.

-Quinn

[Night Rider]

Stupid Scouser.

Why did she go to Sudan to teach when SHE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE LAWS.

Out of all the countries, in all the world - she goes to a Sharia Law one ...

That's true.

No matter how much money I could be earning, there's no way I'd go and work there.

[Night Rider]

Agreed. I was being sarcastic. I'm not a fan or organized religion and definitely not a fan of Islam.

-Quinn

Oh right! I'm no fan of religion either, especially Islam also, with no disrespect to anyone here.

[suckseed]

Imagine a game where you have a little band of rabbits, and a field that holds a finite number of them. You have the choice of taking actions to help the population progress. If you do any of these actions, the population grows.
Or you can inflict disease or violence upon them to shrink the population. So your choices are to be benevolent and lose the game when the population maxes out, or be cruel so the game continues.
Pretty good game, huh?

They should really be trying to develop fertility inhibiting genetically modified crops. Sorry, I'm in a fatalistic mood today.

[iloveshemales77]

Stupid Scouser.

Why did she go to Sudan to teach when SHE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE LAWS.

Out of all the countries, in all the world - she goes to a Sharia Law one ...

That's true.

No matter how much money I could be earning, there's no way I'd go and work there.

Call me a a bigot. FUCK THOSE MEDIEVAL CUNTS! I have no time for fucking religious bigots of any creed an colour! What the fuck, are we going to give up 500 of enlightenment for those fuckwits???

[MacShreach]

Well now I certainly am not going to apologise for the regime in Khartoum, but....

There are three issues here: The first is that Sudan is under great pressure from the West over its human rights record, particularly in Darfur. Internally the risk of an armed Arab-led insurrection is described as "imminent." Sudan is essentially on the brink of collapse as a viable state . The State is looking for any means it can to appease the Islamist extremists and as usual in these circumstances the Govt blames the West. It's a dangerous place, and any westerner presenting a target is going to catch it.

Second issue is training. This woman left a nice suburban school in Middle England to teach in a country that has been in the brink of or at war for as long as I can remember, a hotbed of Islamist militancy and her employers DID NOT THINK TO BRIEF HER ABOUT TAKING MOHAMMED'S NAME IN VAIN? That is criminally irresponsible.

Clearly this poor woman is a pawn in a far bigger game; clearly this should never have happened; clearly flogging someone for naming a teddy-bear is unthinkable. However, the final issue is that only a fool goes travelling in the dangerous parts of the world without doing the homework first. Had Gillian Gibbons read the information that is freely available about how to stay out of trouble in places like Sudan, where Sharia Law is applied, she would not be in jail tonight.

[suckseed]

Agree on all points, mac...but pulling the camera out a bit...what the fuck are people fighting about in the first place? Too many people for the resources. Anywhere there's conflict.

[Quinn]

However, the final issue is that only a fool goes travelling in the dangerous parts of the world without doing the homework first. Had Gillian Gibbons read the information that is freely available about how to stay out of trouble in places like Sudan, where Sharia Law is applied, she would not be in jail tonight.

Cosign.

-Quinn

[Night Rider]

FUCK THOSE MEDIEVAL CUNTS!

LOL

Very good points MacShreach. The school has to take some of the responsibility..

[youcancallmeclaire]

Imagine a game where you have a little band of rabbits, and a field that holds a finite number of them. You have the choice of taking actions to help the population progress. If you do any of these actions, the population grows.
Or you can inflict disease or violence upon them to shrink the population. So your choices are to be benevolent and lose the game when the population maxes out, or be cruel so the game continues.
Pretty good game, huh?

They should really be trying to develop fertility inhibiting genetically modified crops. Sorry, I'm in a fatalistic mood today.

We already have a device of that sort. It's called homosexuality. :)

Nature's way of leveling out the population. :)

[mbf]

We already have a device of that sort. It's called homosexuality. :)

Nature's way of leveling out the population. :)

too bad that works just for roughly 5% of the general population, and about 90% of HA.com members .....

[Tomfurbs]

saw this on the news just now... and I could not work out how she had ended up in Sudan in the first place. Was she with an agency, or a missionary scheme or something? If she was then she was terribly prepared and they have a lot of questions to answer. If she just went there under her own steam then she's incredibly foolish. Talk about midlife crisis...

[Night Rider]

saw this on the news just now... and I could not work out how she had ended up in Sudan in the first place. Was she with an agency, or a missionary scheme or something? If she was then she was terribly prepared and they have a lot of questions to answer. If she just went there under her own steam then she's incredibly foolish. Talk about midlife crisis...

I'm not 100% sure but I think she was sent there by the school.

[BeardedOne]

Yeah, I can picture it now. Let this go unchecked and next thing you know the entire country is worshiping teddy bears.

Brings to mind the line uttered by Mandy Patinkin in "Dead Like Me" when one of the reapers he has charge over (Played by Jasmine Guy, in the role of a metermaid) inadvertently attracts a worshipper:

"You'd better deal with this, or in two-thousand years people are gonna be driving around with little bobble-head metermaids on their dashboards!"

[youcancallmeclaire]

Yeah, I can picture it now. Let this go unchecked and next thing you know the entire country is worshiping teddy bears.

Brings to mind the line uttered by Mandy Patinkin in "Dead Like Me" when one of the reapers he has charge over (Played by Jasmine Guy, in the role of a metermaid) inadvertently attracts a worshipper:

"You'd better deal with this, or in two-thousand years people are gonna be driving around with little bobble-head metermaids on their dashboards!"

I LOVE THAT SHOW!!!!

I was so sad when it ended. :(

[youcancallmeclaire]

too bad that works just for roughly 5% of the general population, and about 90% of HA.com members .....

It's a start. I'm sure it'll pick up some steam.

[trish]

The children should be compelled to draw and quarter the teddy bear until he splits at the seams and his limbs are torn asunder. Its stuffing should be soaked in urine and trampled into the earth. May it please God, the desert sands should blow its profane remains to the four fucking corners of the world.

Now let's all melt down some gold, mold it into a calf and worship that...that's a fuckin' idol.

[Night Rider]

Now let's all melt down some gold, mold it into a calf and worship that...that's a fuckin' idol.

lmao

here's one I made earlier

:)

[suckseed]

SOME say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To know that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice - R. Frost

[BXCanada]

i have always siad that religion should never be part of any justice system it does not allow for a fare and just trial since it is an interpertation of a mythical god or holy scriptours.

[lust4ts]

STONE HER :evil: :twisted:

[Marinus]

"School children named teddy bearHowever, chapter 42, verse 11 of the Koran does say: "[Allah is] the originator of the heavens and the earth... [there is] nothing like a likeness of Him."If that's the case than I know some parents who should get the shit kicked out of them for naming their son Mohammed. This guy's REALLY an insult to the Prophet!

[Jericho]

Second issue is training. This woman left a nice suburban school in Middle England to teach in a country that has been in the brink of or at war for as long as I can remember


I dunno, after teaching a bunch of little scousers, the Sudan could have seemed like a holiday! :wink:

Bottom line, if you go to ANY foreign country, you'd better damn well know the laws of the land.

[rt_saurus]

Reminds me of Moe Szyslak's response when he was challenged for not shouting drinks for the freed Iranian hostages: "Ah, they shouldn't have been there in the first place!"

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

when will the beating be on youtube is what i wanna know
have you ever seen a lashing?
intense shit
people pass out and they revive them with smelling salts and then continue the ass whoopin
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh justice is a crazy thing

[gamma aries]

http://i17.tinypic.com/6ptiwzp.jpg
That pretty much sums it up...

[bob69]

Gamma aries... love the comparison pics. Let me throw in my 2 cents. First, Mohammad, or however you choose to spell it, is a very common name in the muslin world... think John. Second, it might be illegal to name your dog or pig that way in the countries that apply sharia law, but there was no intention to be insulting in this case. Third, it could be argued, and in my opinion it would be really pushing it, that she was encouraging idolatry which is a big no no in Islam. Fourth, I think that this has much more to do with the other teacher probably being Sudanese and resenting this British(citizen of the country that used to treat Sudanese like less than human beings) teacher just going over there. I mean, it could have simply been solved by the other teacher or headmaster telling her that this was a no no and to name the silly bear something else. Argh.. I really wish religion belief,or the lack of it, would just simply be a matter of personal choice. The moment you try to impose one set of beliefs, based on contradicting stories, you always end up in trouble. Leave me be and go bang your head on the wall or floor or kneel or whatever else you want to do... just don't try to tell me that I should do it to... unless it involves a very attractive sex partner and no clothes... then I might consider it :D

[Iggy]

Three minor points these people should think about:

a) Chapter 42, verse 11 of the Koran does say: "[Allah is] the originator of the heavens and the earth... [there is] nothing like a likeness of Him."

b) Mohammad is a very common name given by parents to Muslim male children.

c) The consequences of someone allowing a bear to be named Mohammad is the threat of 40 lashes.

In the words of a very learned man.....Doh!

[Night Rider]

http://i17.tinypic.com/6ptiwzp.jpg
That pretty much sums it up...

:lol:

...and yes JWBL, I've seen that shit and it's not pretty. 40 lashes seems like nothing though compared to these guys!

Men get 7000 lashes for sodomy

TWO men in Saudi Arabia have been sentenced to 7000 lashes each after being convicted of sodomy and have received their first round of punishment in public, a newspaper said today.

The men, who were not identified, were meted out an unspecified number of lashes in public in the the southwestern city of Al-Bahah on Tuesday evening, the Al-Okaz daily reported.

They were then returned to prison where they are to be held until the full punishment is completed, the newspaper added, without saying how many sessions this would involve.

Homosexual acts are illegal in Saudi Arabia, which metes out strict punishment based on sharia, or Islamic law.

Rape, murder, apostasy, armed robbery and drug trafficking can all carry the death penalty in the kingdom, with public beheading the common form of execution.

[suckseed]

What the fuck is wrong with these people?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21964820/

"updated 2:44 p.m. PT, Sun., Nov. 25, 2007

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - Saudi Arabia's Justice Ministry has said a girl gang raped by seven men and then sentenced to six months prison and 200 lashes has confessed to cheating on her husband, in the kingdom's latest response to the negative international reaction to the case. "

[Quinn]

What the fuck is wrong with these people?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21964820/

"updated 2:44 p.m. PT, Sun., Nov. 25, 2007

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - Saudi Arabia's Justice Ministry has said a girl gang raped by seven men and then sentenced to six months prison and 200 lashes has confessed to cheating on her husband, in the kingdom's latest response to the negative international reaction to the case. "

"Confessed" is an interesting euphamism. I wonder how said confession was "extracted"?

-Quinn

[Night Rider]

What the fuck is wrong with these people?

Good question. They are devoted to the Koran and they use that as an excuse to carry out these punishments. I can't see them changing their laws for a long time, because they're so deep in their religion.

"She was sentenced to prison and 90 lashes for being alone with a man not related to her"

Mad people!!

[suckseed]

Someone should hack their television stations and tell them they're a bunch of woman hating fucking dumbasses, sucking on the tit of Big Oil, and that their amazing ancestors curse this generation from their graves.
Would that help? :)

[GroobySteven]

No Saudi Arabia is a good country.
Don't forget how much they help us and how much in-debt are to them. They are our friends. Those aren't bad human rights, Iran has bad human rights because they don't like us.

[suckseed]

No Saudi Arabia is a good country.
Don't forget how much they help us and how much in-debt are to them. They are our friends. Those aren't bad human rights, Iran has bad human rights because they don't like us.
yep. To quote Al Pacino, "What a sham!"

[suckseed]

No Saudi Arabia is a good country.
Don't forget how much they help us and how much in-debt are to them. They are our friends. Those aren't bad human rights, Iran has bad human rights because they don't like us.

Yea, but we all know that U.S. policy has always been to look the other way when strategic allies violate human rights. The State Department should be renamed the Hypocricy Department.
Methinks Seanchai was using sarcasm.

[Mr_Choc69]

Their Country - Their Laws. She has to abide by them.

[NRT]

If, for example a teacher who happens to be muslim, working in a catholic or largely catholic/christian school in Ireland or New York, named a teddy bear 'Jesus', or Pope Paul (or what ever the name of the current one is) wouldnt Catholics be up in Arms? Remember the hell they gave Sinead for ripping up the pope's picture on live tv in her protests against paedo priests?

Dont forget Christians (catholics and protestants) used to kill and torture and brutalise people for centuries in the name of their religion. Wasnt slavery and genocide/theft of land against native americans based on religious grounds?

[biguy4tvtscd]

their amazing ancestors curse this generation from their graves.

I have a hard time believing that any of this shit is new.

I'll credit their ancestors for one thing, and one thing only, and that is saving most of the works of ancient greece and rome from book-burning-mania christians.

Otherwise, Islam has always had the Koran, and the Koran has always emphasized treating women like dogs, and infidels even worse.

[NRT]

Jerry and Kate McCann went to see the Pope to ask if he could help find their daughter.
The Pope said he'd love to help but the Catholic Clergy was more used to hunting down small boys.

[Caleigh]

KHARTOUM, Sudan (AP) -- Thousands of Sudanese, many armed with clubs and knives, rallied Friday in a central square and demanded the execution of a British teacher convicted of insulting Islam for allowing her students to name a teddy bear ''Muhammad.''

The protesters streamed out of mosques after Friday sermons, as pickup trucks with loudspeakers blared messages against Gillian Gibbons, the teacher who was sentenced Thursday to 15 days in prison and deportation. She avoided the more serious punishment of 40 lashes.

They massed in central Martyrs Square outside the presidential palace, where hundreds of riot police were deployed. They did not try to stop the rally, which lasted about an hour.

''Shame, shame on the U.K.,'' protesters chanted.

They called for Gibbons' execution, saying, ''No tolerance: Execution,'' and ''Kill her, kill her by firing squad.''

The women's prison where Gibbons is being held is far from the square.

Several hundred protesters, not openly carrying weapons, marched about a mile away to Unity High School, where Gibbons worked. They chanted slogans outside the school, which is closed and under heavy security, then marched toward the nearby British Embassy. They were stopped by security forces two blocks away from the embassy.

The protest arose despite vows by Sudanese security officials the day before, during Gibbons' trial, that threatened demonstrations after Friday prayers would not take place. Some of the protesters carried green banners with the name of the Society for Support of the Prophet Muhammad, a previously unknown group.

Many protesters carried clubs, knives and axes -- but not automatic weapons, which some have brandished at past government-condoned demonstrations. That suggested Friday's rally was not organized by the government.

A Muslim cleric at Khartoum's main Martyrs Mosque denounced Gibbons during one sermon, saying she intentionally insulted Islam. He did not call for protests, however.

''Imprisoning this lady does not satisfy the thirst of Muslims in Sudan. But we welcome imprisonment and expulsion,'' the cleric, Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri, a well-known hard-liner, told worshippers.

''This an arrogant woman who came to our country, cashing her salary in dollars, teaching our children hatred of our Prophet Muhammad,'' he said.

Britain, meanwhile, pursued diplomatic moves to free Gibbons. Prime Minister Gordon Brown spoke with a member of her family to convey his regret, his spokeswoman said.

''He set out his concern and the fact that we were doing all we could to secure her release,'' spokeswoman Emily Hands told reporters.

Most Britons expressed shock at the verdict by a court in Khartoum, alongside hope it would not raise tensions between Muslims and non-Muslims in Britain.

''One of the good things is the U.K. Muslims who've condemned the charge as completely out of proportion,'' said Paul Wishart, 37, a student in London.

''In the past, people have been a bit upset when different atrocities have happened and there hasn't been much voice in the U.K. Islamic population, whereas with this, they've quickly condemned it.''

Muhammad Abdul Bari, secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, accused the Sudanese authorities of ''gross overreaction.''

''This case should have required only simple common sense to resolve. It is unfortunate that the Sudanese authorities were found wanting in this most basic of qualities,'' he said.

The Muslim Public Affairs Committee, a political advocacy group, said the prosecution was ''abominable and defies common sense.''

Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, spiritual leader of the world's 77 million Anglicans, said Gibbons' prosecution and conviction was ''an absurdly disproportionate response to what is at worst a cultural faux pas.''

Foreign Secretary David Miliband summoned the Sudanese ambassador late Thursday to express Britain's disappointment with the verdict. The Foreign Office said Britain would continue diplomatic efforts to achieve ''a swift resolution'' to the crisis.

Gibbons was arrested Sunday after another staff member at the school complained that she had allowed her 7-year-old students to name a teddy bear Muhammad. Giving the name of the Muslim prophet to an animal or a toy could be considered insulting.

The case put Sudan's government in an embarrassing position -- facing the anger of Britain on one side and potential trouble from powerful Islamic hard-liners on the other. Many saw the 15-day sentence as an attempt to appease both sides.

In The Times, columnist Bronwen Maddox said the verdict was ''something of a fudge ... designed to give a nod to British reproof but also to appease the street.''

Britain's response -- applying diplomatic pressure while extolling ties with Sudan and affirming respect for Islam -- had produced mixed results, British commentators concluded.

In an editorial, The Daily Telegraph said Miliband ''has tiptoed around the case, avoiding a threat to cut aid and asserting that respect for Islam runs deep in Britain. Given that much of the government's financial support goes to the wretched refugees in Darfur and neighboring Chad, Mr. Miliband's caution is understandable.''

Now, however, the newspaper said, Britain should recall its ambassador in Khartoum and impose sanctions on the Sudanese regime.

------

Associated Press writers Jill Lawless, David Stringer and Kate Schuman in London contributed to this report.

[Caleigh]

And regarding the "how would christians react to a
similar situation?" scenario, since there are endless
hispanic guys named Jesus you would imagine that
a person could just as well name a teddy bear Jesus.

[Mr_Choc69]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. We live in a nation where an artist can create a Jesus out of chocolate (sculpture) and it causes a HUGE uproar.

Or

We can discuss the kids who wore the "God is Dead" t-shirts and almost got expelled from school.

So before we go lashing out at how "crazy" other religions are in this world - let's look at what we do.

[CORVETTEDUDE]

It is my pleasure to insult the Islamic religious zealots, throughout the world.....FUCK MOHAMMED IN THE ASS!!!

Now, come a get me!

[lazyman]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. We live in a nation where an artist can create a Jesus out of chocolate (sculpture) and it causes a HUGE uproar.

Or

We can discuss the kids who wore the "God is Dead" t-shirts and almost got expelled from school.

So before we go lashing out at how "crazy" other religions are in this world - let's look at what we do.

Yes, I can quite see how almost getting expelled from school, and being sent to prison while an armed mob bays for your blood, are on the same level. :roll:

[Night Rider]

Well he knows how to spoil the fun! I was hoping to see a good old fahioned lashing....:(

I say we campaign against the decision :)

[Tomfurbs]

This has been a Foreign Office triumph. A real feather in David Milliband's cap. Won't be long before that slimy bastard is Prime Minister.

[Wombat]

Only 40,things are getting soft these days.When l was young a man she wound at least had a limb amputated.

Indeed, in my day one might be nailed to the school walls by the school bullies for breathing after 10PM, or be bought down by the school leopard for attempting to escape during a rugby match...

[NewYorker]

Apparently she's sentence has been commuted by the Sudanese President.

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/teacher-pardoned-in-teddy-bear-case/20071203065309990001

[Night Rider]

http://www.adultgifs.com/adultgifs/AdultGif0001942.gif

[Mr_Choc69]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. We live in a nation where an artist can create a Jesus out of chocolate (sculpture) and it causes a HUGE uproar.

Or

We can discuss the kids who wore the "God is Dead" t-shirts and almost got expelled from school.

So before we go lashing out at how "crazy" other religions are in this world - let's look at what we do.

Yes, I can quite see how almost getting expelled from school, and being sent to prison while an armed mob bays for your blood, are on the same level. :roll:

You missed my point. My point is that WE take offense to people who we see as disrespecting our religion. Yes, they have more "passion" about the
end result. I was not comparing apples to apples. I stand by my original post - Their Country, Their Laws. If you want to venture into a country with strict laws then you should be prepared to pay the piper. Period.

[Mr_Choc69]

Big difference Choc.

1) In the U.S., an artist who creates a controversial piece, centered on religion, may be criticized by some religious leaders and politicians, but there's is no way for the U.S. govt. to prosecute him/her. Thank you 1st Amendment.

2) I'm not familiar with the God Is Dead t-shirt case. I assume it took place at a public school. Well, like it or not, schools are not free speech zones. Many schools can and do ban messages that might be considered inflammatory. Would you really want kids showing up at school with shirts saying "Fuck you," "White Power," "Suck it," or some other crazy message? Either way, a student might get punished but he/she will not end up in jail.

Big differences between Sudan and the U.S. .. Thank Allah!


Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. We live in a nation where an artist can create a Jesus out of chocolate (sculpture) and it causes a HUGE uproar.

Or

We can discuss the kids who wore the "God is Dead" t-shirts and almost got expelled from school.

So before we go lashing out at how "crazy" other religions are in this world - let's look at what we do.

Sorry - this will be the same reply that I gave another poster:

You missed my point. My point is that WE take offense to people who we see as disrespecting our religion. Yes, they have more "passion" about the
end result. I was not comparing apples to apples. I stand by my original post - Their Country, Their Laws. If you want to venture into a country with strict laws then you should be prepared to pay the piper. Period.

[Lovelorn]

Big difference Choc.

1) In the U.S., an artist who creates a controversial piece, centered on religion, may be criticized by some religious leaders and politicians, but there's is no way for the U.S. govt. to prosecute him/her. Thank you 1st Amendment.

2) I'm not familiar with the God Is Dead t-shirt case. I assume it took place at a public school. Well, like it or not, schools are not free speech zones. Many schools can and do ban messages that might be considered inflammatory. Would you really want kids showing up at school with shirts saying "Fuck you," "White Power," "Suck it," or some other crazy message? Either way, a student might get punished but he/she will not end up in jail.

Big differences between Sudan and the U.S. .. Thank Allah!


Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. We live in a nation where an artist can create a Jesus out of chocolate (sculpture) and it causes a HUGE uproar.

Or

We can discuss the kids who wore the "God is Dead" t-shirts and almost got expelled from school.

So before we go lashing out at how "crazy" other religions are in this world - let's look at what we do.

Sorry - this will be the same reply that I gave another poster:

You missed my point. My point is that WE take offense to people who we see as disrespecting our religion. Yes, they have more "passion" about the
end result. I was not comparing apples to apples. I stand by my original post - Their Country, Their Laws. If you want to venture into a country with strict laws then you should be prepared to pay the piper. Period.

No arguably the big difference between the US (and western society in general) and Sudan. Is that the US is the product of a post-renaissance, post-enlightenment society. While the Sudan (its political issues aside) is the product of a ultra-orthodox 'literalist' interpretation of Islam. It is a country and a religion that has never experienced the renaissance, the enlightenment, the reformation, the counter-reformation etc. Leaving it and its fellow ultra-orthodox adherents firmly stuck in the theological equivalent of the middle ages, what we see on tv is the corresponding mind-set in action.

It's really no different than western europe in the 15th & 16th centuries, when we thought the world was flat and we burned people alive for heresy. Some society's have moved on, some have not (for a variety of reasons). The largely secular west generally no longer believes in literal truth of the bible, Islam on the other hand is based around the literal truth of the Qur'an. Neither point of view (or culture) is reconcilable with the other.

L.