Vicki Richter - Post Op Discussion

[Vicki Richter]

I have decided that post-op is a good thing. Maybe even a very good thing. I saw a girls vagina in NYC and I was impressed with it. Her scars were internal and from what I could see it was a very pretty pussy. I really think it's great when girls go post op and live that complete dream instead of the halfway abyss that many of us seem to find ourselves in.

I have come to find that most guys into TS, even pure tops, have an arrousal for the cock attachment. I guess it is because it is just so wrong and they like to give blow jobs. I mean if I was a straightish guy, but liked cock, I wouldn't really want to blow hairy or muscular man cock. I would want smooth, perfumed, pretty clit cock. Since I am not a man, I tend to not discriminate to that level.

Just the same, I also think girls like Jessica Body (or whatever name she is going by today) that go post op young, have a much better opportunity to enjoy life as a woman instead of as a TS woman. Many of us waste our youth thinking it is all about making money, but I think there is a sacrifice there.

Regardless of how I feel about it. I am a role model for some girls. I would rather be a role model who lived a more complete life instead of a facade that is pornography and sex work. I don't love my cock, nor do I hate it. However, I do view it as an obstacle to leading a normal life. Semi-normal I can do. I think what I want is a guy who would marry a TS, but isn't married to her having a dick.

The question I hear a lot is, "why would I want a post-op instead of a real girl? If I want pussy I would just fuck a real one." It's a joke, especially when you see some of the guys asking the questions. Maybe it is because the best GG you could get is average at best, and might look like Rosey O'D, but you might be able to bring in a very above average post-op TS woman as a girlfriend. I would rather fuck a pretty passable TS than an ugly GG and despite what most men might say, I think they secretly would feel the same way most of the time.

Anyway - feel free to debate. I'm in a mood.

~V~

[mbf]

where is that "Its A Trap" pic from one or so years ago?????

[BrendaQG]

I am so glad you wrote this and wish you good luck with your surgery. So far as the time spent pre-op. Turn a negative into a positive and look at it this way. You know 1000% that you are doing this for yourself, for the right reasons. Unlike someone who rushes then regrets.

:-)

[mbf]

I have come to find that most guys into TS, even pure tops, have an arrousal for the cock attachment. I guess it is because it is just so wrong

I ll agree on here. never underestimate the "exotic"-factor in the play.



The question I hear a lot is, "why would I want a post-op instead of a real girl? If I want pussy I would just fuck a real one." It's a joke, especially when you see some of the guys asking the questions. Maybe it is because the best GG you could get is average at best, and might look like Rosey O'D, but you might be able to bring in a very above average post-op TS woman as a girlfriend. I would rather fuck a pretty passable TS than an ugly GG and despite what most men might say, I think they secretly would feel the same way most of the time.


here I disagree.

many or some or a few ( i really dont know) men will sooner or later fly out "T-ville" and we (they) can have natural grown pussy whenever they want.

[cockcraver]

Can i just say to start of (disregard my screename lol) i and a lot of my friends have discussed this topic and most of us agree that its not about the cock...dont get me wrong i like shecocks but there's much more to a ts than cock but im not going to bore u with the details....anyway a good looking girl like urself wouldnt have trouble finding men cock or no cock...but what i will say is just make sure that its what u want 100% and that you wont have any regrets...good luck with whatever u decide to do!

[Vicki Richter]

See I don't think any guy can fuck pretty girls at will, unless you add money to the equation. I think the GG's who I consider attractive are perhaps 10% of the entire population. Now I may just set the bar higher than most, but pretty, perfect GG's are not common.

Lets be honest, after 35, and/or a child or two, GG's tend to degrade faster than men by a huge margin.

I mean sure, if pussy is just a pussy and you don't care what fat, saggy, disgusting sack of shit is attached to it, then by all means any man can fuck GG's at will.

That is where I say a TS who is well kept, but with an "artificial" vagina should be much more of a catch than many GG's.

[slinky]

Firstly, I disagree that it's not about the cock. I think for the majority of tranny "admirers", it absolutely is about the cock...it's ALL about the cock. And one of the ways you can tell is when they talk about how TS's are "better" than GG's. Well, the only wholesale "better" comes from a wholesale difference, and the only real wholesale difference is.... THE COCK.

But, Vicki, a few things. Firstly, I think that's a great post which took a lot of balls (ok, so sue me) to write. i won't quote each and every paragraph just to co-sign, but I think you've rolled up a bunch of salient points at the same time. Well done. Secondly, you know what you're going to find after SRS? Which guys really liked you for you, and which one's were just chasing your cock.

PS For those guys who claim it's not about the cock, see how much LESS attention post-op girls get when they show up at the exact same events with pre-op girls and explain that one to me.

[NadiaUSA]

I don't love my cock, nor do I hate it. However, I do view it as an obstacle to leading a normal life.



Most Post ops tell me of detesting their penis froma young age. It's in their head so strongly that they usually forego facial feminization to pay for it.

If you don't hate your penis and are thinking according to relationships and society and acceptance, I would say try counseling and err toword the side of keeping a natural funcioning organ rather than go for a unperfected surgery.

It's up to you but there is no going back.

[cockcraver]

I agree and if i had the choice id definately go for a good looking post op rather than an average gg...and if ur into men in their 50s then you'll definately not have any probs lol

[Dino Velvet]

Did you suggest that you are getting SRS?

As far as a normal life, if the laws were in place that you could get married in the US, would you still be interested in SRS? It might be easy for me to say but a normal life is what you make of it. I don't know you, Vicki, except from what I've seen on the board, but you are not only attractive but have a lively personality and sense of humor. You seem like you would have more selection over guys than most GGs or TSs. After weeding out the cock worshipers and other freaks there should be plenty of nice guys left to choose from.

[slinky]

That is where I say a TS who is well kept, but with an "artificial" vagina should be much more of a catch than many GG's.

I think there are too few out there that we would be aware of to make an actual evaluation of this. While I agree with your reasoning, I have to say the the majority of TS's I've met took such poor care of themselves when they were young (especially drug use wise) that they are equally as damaged as the GG's.

[Vicki Richter]

I don't love my cock, nor do I hate it. However, I do view it as an obstacle to leading a normal life.



Most Post ops tell me of detesting their penis froma young age. It's in their head so strongly that they usually forego facial feminization to pay for it.

If you don't hate your penis and are thinking according to relationships and society and acceptance, I would say try counseling and err toword the side of keeping a natural funcioning organ rather than go for a unperfected surgery.

It's up to you but there is no going back.

It's not a perfect surgery, but it's pretty fucking good. Counselors tend to be jackasses that have less education than me. I have invested enough that I can integrate into society well. So for me it is the difference between fucking the pizza guy or having a few years of my life where I can get away with wearing hotpants. Heh... Seriously, I love the beach and the ocean and I don't like the restrictions on men. I would say that 95% of guys would not date a TS. (note I said date not fuck). However a lot of that fear is because of the penis being exposed, not about the girl not looking good enough to trick people.

I do like your response and feel it is candid and hearfelt... don't mistake my blatant opinionism for not appreciating and respecting your perspective. You are an attractive girl.

[elo]

Vicki Richter wrote:


I think what I want is a guy who would marry a TS, but isn't married to her having a dick.

Does that mean you want a guy who would be married to her having a pussy?

[justatransgirl]

Wonderful comments Vicki - and not a debate. :-)

I totally agree with you on the cock angle. Certainly most of the gents I've dated are interested in me because I'm a girl. They could go find a cute little femme boy, but he's still a boy. The guys who date us don't usually identify as gay and don't see us as boys with boobs, but as girls with dicks.

I hope Mira will add her comments, I think she's the only post-op provider / video performer on here who's currently in the biz.

"My" Jessica (not the person in Vicki's comments) and I got sidetracked when we entered the sex industry. But I can relate to your comments. Jessica will be 24 soon and I want her to be able to enjoy her life as a complete woman asap. Our problem used to be money, now it is time. She's trying to complete her Bachelors degree, so the soonest she can do it is next summer and maybe not then if she gets an internship.

It's kind of pathetically funny - having to choose between a career outside of sex work ,and the body one wants and needs to live a happy and fulfilling life. One isn't worth living without the other.

Myself, I've become sort of ambivilant about my penis. Some days I want to grab the meat cleaver, on others (especially after hooking up with a GG) I think I might just go ahead and keep it. :-) But I know a lot of guys (admirers) like me BECAUSE I have a penis and I've hesitated to cut off the money maker so to speak. So another year passes and it's still there.

I'm in a little different situation in that I'm already in a LTR with Jessica. Unrelated but - our 2nd aniversary is in two weeks everybody - we're planning a party at the SRO bar in San Diego the 20th - everyone's invited for free pizza!

So I'm not really looking for a BF or to get married to a man, unless we found a special guy into a 3 way arrangement (maybe we will move to Utah?) :-) But I definately have no intention of giving up sex or escorting after surgery. I love men for their ability to provide the shallow physical things I need, and pay me for the pleasure... giggle!

And sometimes I would like a man who could take care of me/us and let me love and take care of him as a life partner in return. But what I've found so far is the majority of men who might be interested in TS's for LTR's are not in the income bracket to support our lifestyle. Does that make me a shallow, gold digging bitch?

I also wonder if post-op, guys will still be after the "experience" thing rather than seeking a life partner and friend.

I think that for any girl, gg or T, finding a guy with depth (and a decent income) who loves you for who you are as a person as opposed to just using you for sex is the challenge.

As for the original equipment vs man-made angle. Again, I think that's mostly bar talk by homophobes more than the reality. I think when faced with the opportunity to dive in, any hole in the dark is fine for most guys. It's whether they stay around afterwards.

Mira would be the expert on this and I'd love to read her comments.

Hugs,
TS Jamie :-)

[Kriss]

See I don't think any guy can fuck pretty girls at will, unless you add money to the equation.

She is totally right


I think the GG's who I consider attractive are perhaps 10% of the entire population. Now I may just set the bar higher than most, but pretty, perfect GG's are not common.

Took the words right out of my mouth


PS For those guys who claim it's not about the cock, see how much LESS attention post-op girls get when they show up at the exact same events with pre-op girls and explain that one to me.

I haven't been to those events but I think that your statement is probably true that post op girls will get less attention at TS clubs and events. I will explain why this is so

1. Guys at those clubs are there to experience and meet Pre-op TS because that is what they expect and that is how the night is advertised.

2. Post -op TS may be generally slightly older and thus may be more concerned with career/relationship/creativity, Building the 'inner person' to fill the body they have crafted and presumably 'completed' (except you girls always want to change something).
Basically i suspect the Post ops are doing other "hetero" things with their life rather than hanging out at every 'tranny bar'

3 It seems that many of the pre op TS at these "events" are there partly to promote thier sex work, escorting, porno, etc. I think many post ops tend to stop or reduce the sex work or continue it "stealth" as female.
Post ops TS CANNOT make money from escorting or porn like Pre op girls can, its true. There are post op TS escorts in U.K. that persistantly state that they are Pre-op on adverts, When guys want a TS , they are looking for a PRE-OP.

People like EROS do not help as they list 'transvestites' or 'crossdressers' together with 'transexual' girls in one group 'TV/TS'. They bizarrely list post op TS in this category when they should be listed as FEMALE , yet clearly state that they are Transexual.

Yes it's a BIG step and sometimes it works well enough to fool most men (not that difficult as men are VERY ignorant and a bit scared of VAGINAS), and sometimes the surgery is unsucsessful but the operation can work.

[GIA LOVES RON]

I have decided that post-op is a good thing. Maybe even a very good thing. I saw a girls vagina in NYC and I was impressed with it. Her scars were internal and from what I could see it was a very pretty pussy. I really think it's great when girls go post op and live that complete dream instead of the halfway abyss that many of us seem to find ourselves in.

I have come to find that most guys into TS, even pure tops, have an arrousal for the cock attachment. I guess it is because it is just so wrong and they like to give blow jobs. I mean if I was a straightish guy, but liked cock, I wouldn't really want to blow hairy or muscular man cock. I would want smooth, perfumed, pretty clit cock. Since I am not a man, I tend to not discriminate to that level.

Just the same, I also think girls like Jessica Body (or whatever name she is going by today) that go post op young, have a much better opportunity to enjoy life as a woman instead of as a TS woman. Many of us waste our youth thinking it is all about making money, but I think there is a sacrifice there.

Regardless of how I feel about it. I am a role model for some girls. I would rather be a role model who lived a more complete life instead of a facade that is pornography and sex work. I don't love my cock, nor do I hate it. However, I do view it as an obstacle to leading a normal life. Semi-normal I can do. I think what I want is a guy who would marry a TS, but isn't married to her having a dick.

The question I hear a lot is, "why would I want a post-op instead of a real girl? If I want pussy I would just fuck a real one." It's a joke, especially when you see some of the guys asking the questions. Maybe it is because the best GG you could get is average at best, and might look like Rosey O'D, but you might be able to bring in a very above average post-op TS woman as a girlfriend. I would rather fuck a pretty passable TS than an ugly GG and despite what most men might say, I think they secretly would feel the same way most of the time.

Anyway - feel free to debate. I'm in a mood.

~V~

WELL SAID VICKI!!! You just made my day complete today Vicki and I love you for that. Having SRS will literally make our lives normal and when I say normal it means women living as women not as men's sex fantasy or men's love of our uniqueness. And I agree that girls keeping their penises ends up in pornography or escorting which is not really a real life.I'm not saying or discriminating them it's just not in my opinion though.I've been in that life( the whole tranny scene thing) it just doesn't work for me so I decided to live my life STEALTH. But most girls that are doing these jobs usually do it because of their transition so they can have enough money for their complete transition to complete themselves and also have good support system when it comes to FINANCE because all transgender women knows how hard it is to get a real normal job that they give to "women that was born as women" but these are things we transgender women need to deal with when it comes to looking for jobs.Unless we get our SRS done, we just somewhat end up making money though escorting or pornography otherwise we have a greater possibility in getting real good paying jobs when after the SRS is performed to us. And also things like legally change our name, birth certificates changed into female, Identification cards all of these things are very important in living a wonderful straight woman life that we really are. However, not all transexuals/trangender women are the same, some would like to keep their cock because they are happy with it but others just can't live with it anymore just like ME. Everyday I see mine it makes me wanna puke. Just things I have to battle everyday.Sad but true. BUT STILL LOVE VICKI FOR HER GOOD TOPIC ABOUT THESE THINGS. GOODLUCK TO WHATEVER DECISION YOU MIGHT DO BUT NEVERTHELESS I'M VERY HAPPY FOR YOU......... :D

[GIA LOVES RON]

I think that for any girl, gg or T, finding a guy with depth (and a decent income) who loves you for who you are as a person as opposed to just using you for sex is the challenge.



I don't think it's a challenge, I just think if the right man comes along it will. I found mine already and i'm only 21 and I have a perfect relationship ongoing for one year and a half now and going strong.And he accepts and love me for me ( just not the penis thing) but he knows that i'm a transgender woman and after my SRS surgery, I would love to marry him legally as a man and a woman......:D All these dreams will come true in the end,it will just take me painful years of dealing with my current self but I believe in "Patience is a virtue" so I can wait as long as I need to but all I know is that I will get to marry the one I really love in the end! :D :D :D

SIGHS,
Gia Antoinette

[NadiaUSA]

Everytime I go to a strip club the girls tell me they wish they has a penis.

Do you think guys just like them for their vaginas? I guess you can't win either way.

I Like pretty girls but too bad they have stinky internal sex organs. I feel like I am the same as them but I am external and not smelly down there.

[justatransgirl]

Duplicate - sorry - deleted

[justatransgirl]

Post ops TS CANNOT make money from escorting or porn like Pre op girls can, its true. There are post op TS escorts in U.K. that persistantly state that they are Pre-op on adverts, When guys want a TS , they are looking for a PRE-OP.

People like EROS do not help as they list 'transvestites' or 'crossdressers' together with 'transexual' girls in one group 'TV/TS'. They bizarrely list post op TS in this category when they should be listed as FEMALE , yet clearly state that they are Transexual.

I disagree on point one sweetie.

From my market research I don't expect to see much difference in the number of men I will date as a post-op after I do the deed. I've run test ads and have literally hundreds of responses - even in London.

For one thing if you do a search on CL - you will find the TS ads are about 1% of the overall traffic in most any US city. So as a post-op the demographic group of potential customers is 99% higher than for TS. Is it a different demographic? Certainly. It's the straight guy/girl crowd as opposed to the "admirer" crowd.

Point two is well taken.

I think Eros is totally wrong in the way they list TS post-op girls. And I think eventually someone will probably sue them. But the fact is 90% of of Eros is directed toward GG's and straight guys. I think post-op girls should be able to advertise in either arena. Post-op girls don't generally advertise on Eros because of this.

But also I think most post-op girls do leave the sex industry to disappear into the folds of life. Again this is a thread for TS Mira to comment on.

Hugs,
TS Jamie :-)

[Snoriega27]

No offense intended - and most of your admirers won't tell you this - but you'd be wise to get those stretch marks removed/altered from around your upper inner thighs, if that's possible.

That - to the say the very least - is a major turn-off.

[Realgirls4me]

No offense intended - and most of your admirers won't tell you this - but you'd be wise to get those stretch marks removed/altered from around your upper inner thighs, if that's possible.

That - to the say the very least - is a major turn-off.

I didn't know that the topic thread -- "Post-op Discussion" -- included your views on stretch marks. What's a turn-off is how many stupid, insensitive posters like you that are members here. How did it become a thread about your views on stretch marks, which are irrelevant to this poster?

[slinky]

Firstly, on the issue of ability to make money in the sex business pre-op vs post-op:

if the person is totally passable and beautiful and advertises as a female, then they will probably make more money post SRS. It's just much easier to do more appointments, "fake it", etc. than you can do pre-op. However, if they "look post-op" (sorry, I can't come up with a more pleasant phrasiology: please feel free to correct me) or advertise as post-op, I think Kriss is correct.

Secondly, on the issue of where Eros, etc. should place post-op ads: it is a double edged sword. There is a certain safety issue involved if guys unsuspectingly go to a pre- or post op TS thinking they are seeing a GG and find out they were "tricked". Most guys will, however, after the fact defend the sexual identity of any post-op who claimed was a GG and they saw thinking they were a GG. (i.e. rather than admit the "fucked a guy"). yes, I saw you said clearly labeled, but I don't think that will happen. I think what you will get is post-ops advertising as females if they are forced into that section.

Thirdly, and this is the real point, IF we're talking about "what guys are interested in", or, in other words, what they are seeking out, as opposed to seeing walk down the street and thinking "gee, that looks nice", then we're talking about guys seeking out TS's, whether pre- or post op. IF you've gone past that decision point already (I probably shouldn't be talking about conditional probability on HA, but WTF), THEN I think you are dealing with a population of guys who it does make a difference to, and a big difference.

[BBaggins06]

See I don't think any guy can fuck pretty girls at will, unless you add money to the equation. I think the GG's who I consider attractive are perhaps 10% of the entire population. Now I may just set the bar higher than most, but pretty, perfect GG's are not common.

10% of 6 Billion is still 600,000,000

I'm pretty sure there aren't six hundred million TSs in the world so just from a supply/demand standpoint, I'm much more likely to hook up with a beautiful GG than even the least desirable TS. Mahalo

Matt

[gunn]

YOUR COCK IS A GIFT.PLEASE DONT CUT IT OFF.BE GOOD TO YOUR COCK.ANYTIME ANY OF YOU LOVLEY GIRLS GET CRAZY AND THINK OF CUTTING REMEMBER ALL THE GOOD TIMES.YOU KNOW,FUCKING ASSES CUMING ON BODYS,BACKS,FACES,IN SOMEONES MOUTH.JUST CUMING.DONT CUT OFF YOUR DICK!!!

[Chaotic]

Personally, I find a post-op the most intruiging; to see if the "feel" is different from a GG. ;)

[Quinn]

My two cents, which isn’t worth much since I’m not in your shoes, is as follows:

You’re young, educated, and have options. If you’re intent upon making such life altering-leap, it makes sense to do so when you can reap the fullest possible benefit.

-Quinn

P.S. I think 10% is being way too generous.

[Vicki Richter]

See I don't think any guy can fuck pretty girls at will, unless you add money to the equation. I think the GG's who I consider attractive are perhaps 10% of the entire population. Now I may just set the bar higher than most, but pretty, perfect GG's are not common.

10% of 6 Billion is still 600,000,000

I'm pretty sure there aren't six hundred million TSs in the world so just from a supply/demand standpoint, I'm much more likely to hook up with a beautiful GG than even the least desirable TS. Mahalo

Matt

So now you think there are 12 billion people in the world? Obviously you're not a math major...

So after you remove the male half... You have to do some equations for under 18 and over 50 as well I would think right? Then you have ratial preferences. For guys that aren't totally into White, Asian or Indian women, that really greatly reduces the numbers even more...

So what is 10% of all that?

V

[hondarobot]

See I don't think any guy can fuck pretty girls at will, unless you add money to the equation. I think the GG's who I consider attractive are perhaps 10% of the entire population. Now I may just set the bar higher than most, but pretty, perfect GG's are not common.

10% of 6 Billion is still 600,000,000

I'm pretty sure there aren't six hundred million TSs in the world so just from a supply/demand standpoint, I'm much more likely to hook up with a beautiful GG than even the least desirable TS. Mahalo

Matt

10% is moronic. I'd say at least 20% are attractive. Then you have to factor in mental stability. That brings it down to .001%. I haven't found that yet.

Just fuck stripper girls. We keep getting older, they keep staying the same age. Easy question, easy answer.

[slinky]

So after you remove the male half...
V

Isn't that what this whole thread is about?

[ukbuffshef]

I have only posted in this forum about my ex girlfriend who was a transexual, sadly i had to end our relationship because i couldnt deal with who she is (well, i could deal with who she is but not what i saw down below if you know what i mean).

Before i posted to get advice from people that might have been in the same situation as myself and some people were very friendly and welcoming.

If my ex gf was post opperative when i met her then i think we would still be together now. Im really p1ssed off because i really liked her, still do, we talk together and ive met up with her twice now since we split and shared a passionate kiss together, i still have lots of feelings for her but it is best to leave it (for now anyway) and we both agreed on being friends and staying in contact.

I think what you said vicki richter is very sensible, im waiting for when she has her opperation (she says she wants to have it as soon as possible because she is 23 already) but is on a waiting list, here in england our health service has huge waiting lists. So after she has her opperation maybe myself and her can have a proper relationship.

I think on this site that many people have a fetish for the penis. Lol if im totally honest (i dont want to upset people) but i think it is like the freudian theory of penis envy. Fair enough each to his own and no discrimination, but i dont see how a man can insist he is straight if he is attracted to a male penis?

I work in the sex industry myself (not porn, but dancing) and the gay community are the best customers, whilst i can understand why some transexuals might keep their penis to make money out of a niche market of the sex industry and provide a service to the men who have such a fetish, i think that if they want to enjoy their life as a woman, who they are deep inside, then its important to be a woman on the outside, if you understand? This is something i discussed with my ex gf, she is a club dancer (in nightclub) and works as hairdresser in days, she told me about the earning potential that she could have due to it being a niche market, at first i did not believe it but after seeing this forum i now can see exactly what she was talking about, some men go gaga over this. But she did not want to reveal to anyone (strangers) of her transexual status so was against this idea.

Im just cursing our nhs system and the timing that everything happened, my head is still messed up and i dont know why, im still in two minds right now, one says take, the other says leave :cry: :? But i guess it has to be like this, for now at least :cry:

Post opperative is important because it brings happiness to someone that deserves happiness and who has struggled and overcome nasty words/actions against them to become who they truly are. This is my opinion, i base it on my ex and what she said to me.

[hondarobot]

See I don't think any guy can fuck pretty girls at will, unless you add money to the equation. I think the GG's who I consider attractive are perhaps 10% of the entire population. Now I may just set the bar higher than most, but pretty, perfect GG's are not common.

10% of 6 Billion is still 600,000,000

I'm pretty sure there aren't six hundred million TSs in the world so just from a supply/demand standpoint, I'm much more likely to hook up with a beautiful GG than even the least desirable TS. Mahalo

Matt

So now you think there are 12 billion people in the world? Obviously you're not a math major...

So after you remove the male half... You have to do some equations for under 18 and over 50 as well I would think right? Then you have ratial preferences. For guys that aren't totally into White, Asian or Indian women, that really greatly reduces the numbers even more...

So what is 10% of all that?

V

It's not "ratial" it's "racial", dumbass. But you know that.

[hondarobot]

Good Night!

:crazy

(as a side note , I am neither rich nor old, in case anyone was wondering about that)

[Ecstatic]

The question I hear a lot is, "why would I want a post-op instead of a real girl? If I want pussy I would just fuck a real one."
Pros and cons and personal decisions regarding whether to go for GRS or not aside, to address this question I'd have to say that, for me, it's not a question of wanting a post-op instead of a natal woman: I have been intimate several times with a truly lovely post-op woman and enjoyed it greatly. The fact was that I enjoyed being with her, not being with her because she's post-op.

Now preferring to being with a pre-op or non-op TS over either a post-op or natal woman, that's something else again. My purely physical, sexual preference is for a pre-op TS, but that's before all those other, more important qualities enter the picture: personality, humor, intelligence, shared interests, etc.

[erivera1]

now i might have missed something, but are you getting the SRS surgery in the near future or are you talking about down the road? either way you are beautiful, and i would want you regardless of what you have or don't have

[soulRipp]

"Maybe it is because the best GG you could get is average at best, and might look like Rosey O'D" That a joke Vicki not to start shit but most girl i get is 7-9 i never had a 10 well in my standard have not. I came to this site to trying and understand about ts 's am not going to say i haven seen any that arent sexy. But i will say that most of the ts i wouldn't talk to because they are not as cute as real gg. You take a ts that is a 7 and put it beside and 7 gg and the gg will win so in order for me to pick you over that gg is for you to have a dick. To me if am going to hae sex with a man (am sorry if that hurt some of yall but that's how i see) why get one with a pussy when i got penty of gg with it

[phxguy]

I don't love my cock, nor do I hate it. However, I do view it as an obstacle to leading a normal life.

Vicki, I love your cock, isn't that good enough for you to keep it??? :wink:

Keeping your cock shouldn't have to be an obstacle to leading a normal life.

[phxguy]

I should also add that I'm not into man-made vaginas.

[TrueBeauty TS]

I think that for any girl, gg or T, finding a guy with depth (and a decent income) who loves you for who you are as a person as opposed to just using you for sex is the challenge.



I don't think it's a challenge, I just think if the right man comes along it will. I found mine already and i'm only 21 and I have a perfect relationship ongoing for one year and a half now and going strong.And he accepts and love me for me ( just not the penis thing) but he knows that i'm a transgender woman and after my SRS surgery, I would love to marry him legally as a man and a woman......:D All these dreams will come true in the end,it will just take me painful years of dealing with my current self but I believe in "Patience is a virtue" so I can wait as long as I need to but all I know is that I will get to marry the one I really love in the end! :D :D :D

SIGHS,
Gia Antoinette


Girl, I think that's fantastic that you found your love, but I think you are one of the lucky few that won the lottery. You found the Golden Wonka Bar Ticket.

I know girls, myself included, that have searched years for a decent, quality guy and have come up empty. It's a HUGE challenge.

Take what you got, run with it, and never look back.


.

[qeuqheeg222]

(decent income)

[GinX]

As a side question-and this is a little off-topic, I think-but if a TS girl has SRS, what is sex like for her after that? I hate exposing my ignorance here, but it's just something I don't know much about. After SRS, does a TS engage in regular vaginal intercourse or can she only be penetrated anally? Is the "man-made" vagina stimulated like a GG's vagina? Can a TS still orgasm after SRS? Sorry if these seem like stupid questions, but to be honest, these questions I really don't have any answers for.

[Ecstatic]

Those aren't stupid questions, GinX. Uninformed, yes, but not stupid. Post-op women can indeed enjoy vaginal sex, including full orgasm and vaginal lubrication (depending upon the type of surgery and other factors). Peggy can (and has--search the site for more) go into this in much more detail. In simple terms, the vagina is created by inverting the penis, and the sensitivity is preserved (unless there is nerve damage during surgery, which is a surgical risk).

Sometimes the vaginoplasty yields a somewhat shallower vagina; my occasional post-op partner has told me that some men are too big for her but I'm just right (I'm totally average at 6"). But this is not always the case.

[Grahame]

..maybe it is because the best GG you could get is average at best, and might look like Rosey O'D..

..see I don't think any guy can fuck pretty girls at will, unless you add money to the equation..

..lets be honest, after 35, and/or a child or two, GG's tend to degrade faster than men by a huge margin.

I mean sure, if pussy is just a pussy and you don't care what fat, saggy, disgusting sack of shit is attached to it, then by all means any man can fuck GG's at will. That is where I say a TS who is well kept, but with an "artificial" vagina should be much more of a catch than many GG's..

Sorry to add my simple opinions to this thread but these comments are utter bullshit.. that or you're definitly meeting the wrong kind of people.

G 8)

Hmm, and as an afterthought..

..pretty, perfect GG's are not common..

What, and TG's are? Sorry, but NOBODY is or ever can be perfect.

[cockcraver]

tgirls are gold dust and there is just something about them that im attracted to...is it their strong personalities? YES....is it the fact that they're well groomed? YES...is it the cock? Maybe....is it the anal sex? YESSSSSS

[Vicki Richter]

..maybe it is because the best GG you could get is average at best, and might look like Rosey O'D..

..see I don't think any guy can fuck pretty girls at will, unless you add money to the equation..

..lets be honest, after 35, and/or a child or two, GG's tend to degrade faster than men by a huge margin.

I mean sure, if pussy is just a pussy and you don't care what fat, saggy, disgusting sack of shit is attached to it, then by all means any man can fuck GG's at will. That is where I say a TS who is well kept, but with an "artificial" vagina should be much more of a catch than many GG's..

Sorry to add my simple opinions to this thread but these comments are utter bullshit.. that or you're definitly meeting the wrong kind of people.

G 8)

Hmm, and as an afterthought..

..pretty, perfect GG's are not common..

What, and TG's are? Sorry, but NOBODY is or ever can be perfect.

No I said it, so it must be true.

I am not saying the best GG's aren't more attractive than the best TS's. The best GG's are absolutely more attractive than the best TS. However, I am saying that after that 10% of attractive, single GG's, the next 90% aren't all that. There are a lot of average and below average boring women in this world. Furthermore, I am saying that, in America, women often don't take care of themselves. Maybe I have higher standards than most people. I set the bar very high when it comes to women who are sexually interesting.

So furthermore I am saying that I don't believe that the "why fuck a post op when I can get the real thing" argument stands up.

[Grahame]

No I said it, so it must be true.

I am not saying the best GG's aren't more attractive than the best TS's. The best GG's are absolutely more attractive than the best TS. However, I am saying that after that 10% of attractive, single GG's, the next 90% aren't all that. There are a lot of average and below average boring women in this world. Furthermore, I am saying that, in America, women often don't take care of themselves. Maybe I have higher standards than most people. I set the bar very high when it comes to women who are sexually interesting.

So furthermore I am saying that I don't believe that the "why fuck a post op when I can get the real thing" argument stands up.

Lol, well of course I knew as YOU said it, it must be true :wink:


And absolutely there is nothing wrong with having higher standards BUT, having said that, I think you would be missing a LOT of wonderful people with excellent qualities.

Anyway, we're talking appearances here and the way we see others varies - what you call 'sexually interesting' might be totally unattractive to me - so instead of suffering the 90% of American women not taking care of themselves book a ticket over to Greece and we'll go compare together :wink:

G 8)

[El Nino]

Vicki, me thinks you will gravely regrt it. In my humble opinion, and no offense here to anyone, but post-op vaginas turn my stomach, literally. Nothing wrong with what you got you know.

[Kriss]

post-op vaginas turn my stomach, literally.

Can you elaborate on this? What exactly "turns your stomach"? Do you mean the THOUGHT of the vagina? or do you mean the SIGHT of post op Vaginas? And if so are you referring to PICTURES you may have seen or have you actually EVER seen one in REAL LIFE?

I have been with 2 post op Transwomen and they both had beautiful pussies. In my experience, Orally pleasuring a Post op TS is almost exactly like with a 100% female, the only difference is that the vagina cavity can be ever so slightly to one side. Most heterosexual men would not notice and do not notice this as they really have so little knowledge and a lot of subconscious fear of vaginas .

[cockcraver]

id imagine post op pussies are better looking than most ggs vaginas...and im not an expert but i dont think they'd have a fishy odor either

[slinky]

I am not saying the best GG's aren't more attractive than the best TS's. The best GG's are absolutely more attractive than the best TS. However, I am saying that after that 10% of attractive, single GG's, the next 90% aren't all that. There are a lot of average and below average boring women in this world. Furthermore, I am saying that, in America, women often don't take care of themselves. Maybe I have higher standards than most people. I set the bar very high when it comes to women who are sexually interesting.

So furthermore I am saying that I don't believe that the "why fuck a post op when I can get the real thing" argument stands up.

Factors which I think you are leaving out:

1)Not all post-op TG's fall into the looks category you are talking about. There are plenty who aren't as good looking as the group of GG's which you yourself describe.

2) There are an infinitessimally smaller group of post-op girls to fuck than GG's. as a result, there's statisically going to be a ton of GG's who are just as good looking, but easier to both get into their pants and deal with than post-ops. Remember that the vast majority of good looking post ops worked REALLY hard to get there, and are aware/proud of the way they look. Much easier to find some GG who's pretty but has issues and will fuck with less discrimination.

[slinky]

In my experience, Orally pleasuring a Post op TS is almost exactly like with a 100% female, the only difference is that the vagina cavity can be ever so slightly to one side. Most heterosexual men would not notice and do not notice this as they really have so little knowledge and a lot of subconscious fear of vaginas .

You lost me here: since it's still not possible to concentrate the nerve endings in a post op clitoris, nor make it behave in the ways a GG's clit does, I think a guy would have to be ingoring what was going on a bit not to notice (and yes, I've been there). Also, I'm curious how a post op vagina squirts?

[BrendaQG]

Someone asked what sex for a post op is like. Well an online girlfriend of mine told me about it once. She said.

"It's not all that. Not that I don't get off from it. But when I become erect it still feels like there is a penis there, but there isn't."

This is from a person who had good surgery and is happy with it. So basically that's what it feels like for that one, and I'll bet she is not alone. So I guess the cost of getting surgery and ending up with full sensation is having the exact sensation as you would if you have a penis....

On the one hand what's the point of the surgery then? Sex will feel about the same so from that POV I could just keep it forever. Keep that $20,000 in my pocket.

On the other is that it will be easier to live a female life in every way after the op. I.e. being able to wear tight clothes without having to worry about a bulge of any kind. Or wear a bikini without fear of a slip.

[slinky]

Someone asked what sex for a post op is like. Well an online girlfriend of mine told me about it once. She said.

"It's not all that. Not that I don't get off from it. But when I become erect it still feels like there is a penis there, but there isn't."

This is from a person who had good surgery and is happy with it. So basically that's what it feels like for that one, and I'll bet she is not alone. So I guess the cost of getting surgery and ending up with full sensation is having the exact sensation as you would if you have a penis....

On the one hand what's the point of the surgery then? Sex will feel about the same so from that POV I could just keep it forever. Keep that $20,000 in my pocket.

On the other is that it will be easier to live a female life in every way after the op. I.e. being able to wear tight clothes without having to worry about a bulge of any kind. Or wear a bikini without fear of a slip.

Did they talk about the quality their orgasms? From what I understand they are less intense. Speaking personally, I can say that the quality of my own depends a lot on ejacualtion. If someone told me I wasn't going to ejaculate anymore, I'm pretty damn sure the overall quality of my orgasms would be severely diminished.

OTOH, you never have to worry about erectile disfunction again: NOT TRYING TO JOKE, but if you're a bit slutty, it's a lot easier to fuck a dozen guys in a day post op than to get it up a dozen times a day on hormones pre-op.

[BeardedOne]

Firstly, I disagree that it's not about the cock. I think for the majority of tranny "admirers", it absolutely is about the cock...it's ALL about the cock. And one of the ways you can tell is when they talk about how TS's are "better" than GG's. Well, the only wholesale "better" comes from a wholesale difference, and the only real wholesale difference is.... THE COCK.

I don't make a habit of lying to women (In fact, I can't recall the last time I did, and it was something lame like "I didn't forget your birthday, I just couldn't find an appriopriate gift"), so I won't do it here. For me, it IS about the cock, though to say that it is all about the cock might be an exageration. Part is because I am bi and like the 'best of both worlds' aspect of T-gurls, and part is probably because the 'T' is exotic. I also gravitate towards TS/TG people because they tend, in my opinion/history, to treat me better than GGs who have (In my experience) tended to be rather insane and/or cruel. Besides, in sex play, strap-ons just don't 'do it' for me. :shrug


PS For those guys who claim it's not about the cock, see how much LESS attention post-op girls get when they show up at the exact same events with pre-op girls and explain that one to me.

I'll watch out for this (Should I ever leave my house and go public) and can understand it. The post-op discussion is a close third to the 'amigay' and 'biggest cock' threads here on HA. It's as though there were a death and all go into a mourning period for the late (Or, as it were, inverted) cock. I must confess that I've uttered a brief "Awww :( " to some of these revelations, but it's selfish (And downright goofy) to bitch about it when it is the dream/goal of the gurl to complete the SRS. I'm sure that I might react differently were it a gurl that I knew personally (Or biblicly :wink: ), but it would still be pointless and rather cruel towards the gurl to piss and moan about it. I do have a couple of post-op acquaintences and I have not treated them differently post SRS than I did before.


It's up to you but there is no going back.

Any F2M TS will tell you, they have yet to perfect the 'addadicktome' surgery. :?


I would say that 95% of guys would not date a TS. (note I said date not fuck). However a lot of that fear is because of the penis being exposed, not about the girl not looking good enough to trick people.

I had a lovely dinner date with a T-gurl once, at a mid-range restaurant in the city. About halfway through dinner, she began to shift and squirm a bit. When I asked what was wrong, she said "I've never sat on my junk this long before!" and I laughed. :lol: As far as I was concerned, she could have let the gurls loose and gotten comfortable. As it was, we were the best looking couple in the joint.

So, really Ms. V., what's that 95% have that we don't? Eh?


I think that for any girl, gg or T, finding a guy with depth (and a decent income) who loves you for who you are as a person as opposed to just using you for sex is the challenge.

It is such combinations (Depth, honesty, integrity, stability, etc.) that make such finds so rare. The damage done to me by so many 'lovers' in my past pretty much put me off-market, overall. Yet, there is always the fantasy of the perfect someone that might change my views and my life. I'm sure that there are many people, male/female/TS/TG, that are in that fantasy mode. Cock/pussy/ass, in the end, none of them will talk or listen to you.


People like EROS do not help as they list 'transvestites' or 'crossdressers' together with 'transexual' girls in one group 'TV/TS'. They bizarrely list post op TS in this category when they should be listed as FEMALE , yet clearly state that they are Transexual.

Is this so? I would think that it up to the provider to classify themselves.


I Like pretty girls but too bad they have stinky internal sex organs. I feel like I am the same as them but I am external and not smelly down there.

Maybe it's a man thing. :? If a GG keeps herself clean, I could nuzzle the nether regions for hours. <Ponder> Hell, some people like Haggis. :shrug


Then you have to factor in mental stability. That brings it down to .001%. I haven't found that yet.

See?!? Honda knows! :shock:


If my ex gf was post opperative when i met her then i think we would still be together now. Im really p1ssed off because i really liked her, still do, we talk together and ive met up with her twice now since we split and shared a passionate kiss together, i still have lots of feelings for her but it is best to leave it (for now anyway) and we both agreed on being friends and staying in contact.

Nice post, ukbuffshef, but at the risk of being rude, I think you need to take a step back and look at your relationship with this lady. It's clear that you care for her a great deal, but I see it as your using her penis as an 'out' of the relationship. Her transition time is probably the most important point of your relationship and you can play it as her lover or as her friend, but I think that when all is said and done, your position in her life will remain that of whatever position you chose before. If you want to be her bf/lover after her big step, then you need to decide whether or not you are up to that now.

For someone like me, that few inches/centimeters of engorged flesh is an evening of bliss, but for you it seems to be a wall that limits your access to happiness with this gurl. Don't waste the opportunity.


Now preferring to being with a pre-op or non-op TS over either a post-op or natal woman, that's something else again. My purely physical, sexual preference is for a pre-op TS, but that's before all those other, more important qualities enter the picture: personality, humor, intelligence, shared interests, etc.

Exactly. Is it the person or the penis/pudenda that stokes your fire first?


Take what you got, run with it, and never look back.

Advice that can never be challenged.


Sorry to add my simple opinions to this thread but these comments are utter bullshit.. that or you're definitly meeting the wrong kind of people.

No, that would be me. :shrug

Many GGs I know, including former lovers, fit the mold of Vicki's descriptions. Now older , some are moms, etc. Closest I've gotten to knocking boots with a GG in the past ten years (Without coin) was when a college student from Calgary came on to me in Toronto a couple years back because she thought I dressed well (Note: While we didn't actually 'knock boots' we certainly licked each other to a restful sleep). She was 20 years old.

And yes, I do meet the wrong kind of people. Daily.


On the other is that it will be easier to live a female life in every way after the op. I.e. being able to wear tight clothes without having to worry about a bulge of any kind. Or wear a bikini without fear of a slip.

Please pardon the humor here, but I can't help but say: Why worry, just go to a nude beach. :)

Sorry, it had to be said.


OTOH, you never have to worry about erectile disfunction again: NOT TRYING TO JOKE, but if you're a bit slutty, it's a lot easier to fuck a dozen guys in a day post op than to get it up a dozen times a day on hormones pre-op.

Heh. Cute. I had an event with a gurl wherein she kept losing her erection (It was late, she was tired, the session went on longer than expected, etc.). I was not unhappy. In fact, I was rather pleased that she was so focused on showing me a good time. By the end of the evening, the bed looked as though it were covered in rose petals, with all the torn condom wrappers strewn about. :D

So, isn't that what this thread is really about, Vicki? That the erection isn't always the most important thing in a relationship?

[2Kaiser]

See I don't think any guy can fuck pretty girls at will, unless you add money to the equation. I think the GG's who I consider attractive are perhaps 10% of the entire population. Now I may just set the bar higher than most, but pretty, perfect GG's are not common.

Lets be honest, after 35, and/or a child or two, GG's tend to degrade faster than men by a huge margin.

I mean sure, if pussy is just a pussy and you don't care what fat, saggy, disgusting sack of shit is attached to it, then by all means any man can fuck GG's at will.


That is where I say a TS who is well kept, but with an "artificial" vagina should be much more of a catch than many GG's.


HAHAHAHA WITH ALL DUE RESPECT BUT THIS IS ABSOLUTE DRIVEL AND COULDNT BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.

IF A GUY WANTED PUSSY, THERE IS REAL WOMEN FOR THAT. BY NO MEANS CAN ANY OPERATED, BUTCHERED MAN COCK TURNED INTO A SO CALLED PUSSY VIA SURGERY IN ANY WAY EVEN BEGIN TO COMPARE TO A REAL BORN AND BREAD PUSSY. SORRY.

[Trogdor]

I don't make a habit of lying to women (In fact, I can't recall the last time I did, and it was something lame like "I didn't forget your birthday, I just couldn't find an appriopriate gift"), so I won't do it here. For me, it IS about the cock, though to say that it is all about the cock might be an exageration. Part is because I am bi and like the 'best of both worlds' aspect of T-gurls, and part is probably because the 'T' is exotic. I also gravitate towards TS/TG people because they tend, in my opinion/history, to treat me better than GGs who have (In my experience) tended to be rather insane and/or cruel.

Yes, I feel the same. TS/TG's always treated me a hell of alot better than any GG ever has.

[cockcraver]

Anyone here who says that a tgirl cock doesnt turn them on is lying and needs to get a grip...i was in denial for a few years just blanking the thought of a tgirls cock out of my mind...but then i came to my senses and realized that its part of their make-up and i found myself even more attracted to them...but thats not to say pre-ops turn me on any more than post-ops...if you're gonna be post-op though u need to be passable and have sex appeal otherwise ure just another unattractive female rather than a decent ts (this obviously doesnt apply to vicky cos she's hot)......thats my rant over

[SarahG]

Lets be honest, after 35, and/or a child or two, GG's tend to degrade faster than men by a huge margin.


Interesting, I have always thought it was the reverse in America. I think guys in our society are more likely than girls to not give a damn about their appearance... and thus quickly degrade as they age as a result (beer bellies, no care to work out, no care about what they eat, etc).

I think there is a reason why any given cosmetic procedure that is not gender specific is always more popular with girls before it becomes even close to being a fringe procedure for segments of the male population. Liposuction for instance.

But on the other hand, I think it is easier for older guys to look attractive than it is for older girls to look attractive, so in that sense- if this is the case, which I think it could very well be, then how one cares about them self is secondary to the reality of aging. Look at all the girls that still think Sean Connery is attractive as an example, I would think seeing a girl of the same age as him in that light would be an extreme rarity no matter how well she has cared for her body over her lifespan.

That is not to say that people in this country have an epidemic problem of not caring for their bodies. There are certainly enough obesity studies out there to go around to reflect this.



As far as a normal life, if the laws were in place that you could get married in the US, would you still be interested in SRS?


There is always going to be some way of debating that "normal life" is postop life (I am not saying I am taking that position per say...). That perspective is never going to go away even if the system gets out of the stone age in terms of identification papers, government databases and marriage law. If anything that is the reason why srs has to be about the patient's needs psychologically... it's not about the societal influences/factors.

In Iran for instance, gays can avoid execution by claiming that they are trans and then transitioning through governmentally funded srs procedures. In that extreme sense, srs is allowing them to have some kind of social normalcy but I suspect it is a trade off resulting in psychological angst...

[mbf]

Lets be honest, after 35, and/or a child or two, GG's tend to degrade faster than men by a huge margin.


Interesting, I have always thought it was the reverse in America. I think guys in our society are more likely than girls to not give a damn about their appearance... and thus quickly degrade as they age as a result (beer bellies, no care to work out, no care about what they eat, etc).



this needs to be cleared:

it goes both ways. my impression: from the moment on when a couple seems to be together for some time and it seems to work, both usually get lazy and take things for granted...


oh, and a sidenote to the marriage thing:

I can only speak for myself, but if I ever get married I would definitley want my own kids. raising children is a vital part of marriage ( at least for me, call me oldfashioned) - adoption is no real alternative.

[SarahG]

raising children is a vital part of marriage ( at least for me, call me oldfashioned) - adoption is no real alternative.

So if you got married to a GG and later found that she was sterile, say bad endometriosis or something like that- would you leave her for someone who could have kids?

[cockcraver]

hmmmm its heating up!!!

[mbf]

raising children is a vital part of marriage ( at least for me, call me oldfashioned) - adoption is no real alternative.

So if you got married to a GG and later found that she was sterile, say bad endometriosis or something like that- would you leave her for someone who could have kids?


maybe.

the whole scenario is highly hypothetical tho. and its easy to say something on a message board about some situation that is yet far away.

[SarahG]

raising children is a vital part of marriage ( at least for me, call me oldfashioned) - adoption is no real alternative.

So if you got married to a GG and later found that she was sterile, say bad endometriosis or something like that- would you leave her for someone who could have kids?


maybe.

the whole scenario is highly hypothetical tho. and its easy to say something on a message board about some situation that is yet far away.

Highly hypthetical? I dunno,
Lots of couples get married only to have one of the two unexpectantly go sterile due to medical realities, rather it be an emergency, something like endometrisos, or cancers.

[cockcraver]

[M77 wrote:
You seem to be contradicting yourself in the same paragraph]

I see what u mean but I didnt mean it to come across like that..what i meant was once i got over the the fact that they were once men i was able to appreciate them more..do u know what i mean..i honestly dont have a preference but then again ive never eat artifiacial pussy so im probably contradicting my self again lol...no more vodka for me :)

[mbf]

Lots of couples get married only to have one of the two unexpectantly go sterile due to medical realities, rather it be an emergency, something like endometrisos, or cancers.

as I wrote earlier: IF I ever get married.

right now I cant see myself getting in such a commitment. I would have to restructure my whole life pretty much from the scratch. I am not ready to do that YET. maybe in a few years time.

a fertility check on both sides would be very high up the to-do-list before actually entering the chapel.

[Vicki Richter]

In my experience, Orally pleasuring a Post op TS is almost exactly like with a 100% female, the only difference is that the vagina cavity can be ever so slightly to one side. Most heterosexual men would not notice and do not notice this as they really have so little knowledge and a lot of subconscious fear of vaginas .

You lost me here: since it's still not possible to concentrate the nerve endings in a post op clitoris, nor make it behave in the ways a GG's clit does, I think a guy would have to be ingoring what was going on a bit not to notice (and yes, I've been there). Also, I'm curious how a post op vagina squirts?

Stop it... GG's don't squirt. That was made up by the porn industry. It is peeing. Trust me. If you can show me anatomically where the woman holds up to a quart of CUM, then please sure by all means. There are reasons that no ladies in porn were squirting for dozens of years and it became a revolution in this millenium. It is called "something new and different to sell to dumb guys".

And yes they can concentrate nerve endings to form a clit. That is exactly how they do it. They use the glans of the penis to create it. Kriss... interesting you seem to think you know so much and yet know so little. You sound like a misinformed TS.

[Vicki Richter]

See I don't think any guy can fuck pretty girls at will, unless you add money to the equation. I think the GG's who I consider attractive are perhaps 10% of the entire population. Now I may just set the bar higher than most, but pretty, perfect GG's are not common.

Lets be honest, after 35, and/or a child or two, GG's tend to degrade faster than men by a huge margin.

I mean sure, if pussy is just a pussy and you don't care what fat, saggy, disgusting sack of shit is attached to it, then by all means any man can fuck GG's at will.


That is where I say a TS who is well kept, but with an "artificial" vagina should be much more of a catch than many GG's.


HAHAHAHA WITH ALL DUE RESPECT BUT THIS IS ABSOLUTE DRIVEL AND COULDNT BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.

IF A GUY WANTED PUSSY, THERE IS REAL WOMEN FOR THAT. BY NO MEANS CAN ANY OPERATED, BUTCHERED MAN COCK TURNED INTO A SO CALLED PUSSY VIA SURGERY IN ANY WAY EVEN BEGIN TO COMPARE TO A REAL BORN AND BREAD PUSSY. SORRY.

That is a great picture of anal squirting in your profile. I swear if the porn industry said anal squirting was real, you guys would buy it.

Vicki

[cockcraver]

gg's CAN squirt babe....maybe not as exadurated in the porn films but ive experienced it. (very rare) its uasually when she is extremely horny and hasnt had sex for days...its not at all a turn on for me anyway

[BeardedOne]

gg's CAN squirt babe....maybe not as exadurated in the porn films but ive experienced it. (very rare) its uasually when she is extremely horny and hasnt had sex for days...its not at all a turn on for me anyway

BTDT, it smells like the ocean and tastes like butter. *Sigh*

But that's not the subject of this thread. :roll:

[Vicki Richter]

raising children is a vital part of marriage ( at least for me, call me oldfashioned) - adoption is no real alternative.

So if you got married to a GG and later found that she was sterile, say bad endometriosis or something like that- would you leave her for someone who could have kids?


maybe.

the whole scenario is highly hypothetical tho. and its easy to say something on a message board about some situation that is yet far away.

#1 cause for divorce = marriage
#2 cause for divorce = kids
#3 cause for divorce (generally as the result of kids) = money

Kids aren't all they are cracked up to be and definitely are not the path to marital bliss. The reason some couples can manage great with kids happily is because they start focussing on the kids instead of each other. That gives them something in common that can last a very long time.

[Vicki Richter]

gg's CAN squirt babe....maybe not as exadurated in the porn films but ive experienced it. (very rare) its uasually when she is extremely horny and hasnt had sex for days...its not at all a turn on for me anyway

GG's can get sopping wet... but squirting, as it is seen in porn, is not physically possible.

[slinky]

The debate RAGES about squirting, even from the medical side. My real point was that no matter what you hear, a man made pussy isn't the same as a natural one. Not bad, just not the same. And I've heard all the stories about using the glans to create a clit. Never heard of one which actually worked like one post surgery: every post op I've spoken to "feels the sex" in her new cavity, in sort of a weird way likes it's still outside, but inverted. I've never met one who's talked about her new clit being the source of orgasms of "the sex". I'd love to hear differenlty from some post ops with first hand info on this.


PS I know someone is going to read this who could give me the education I want, but all she does is flirt with me. EDUCATE ME BABY!!!!!!!!!

[BeardedOne]

Kids aren't all they are cracked up to be and definitely are not the path to marital bliss. The reason some couples can manage great with kids happily is because they start focussing on the kids instead of each other. That gives them something in common that can last a very long time.

My 'rents suffered together for nineteen years "For the kids". Then my dad escaped via death.

[cockcraver]

i dont know what porn movies ur on about but in reality they can squirt...dont take it personal its as much of a turn on as someone shitting on ur chest

[slinky]

[quote]My 'rents suffered together for nineteen years "For the kids". Then my dad escaped via death.


Why do Jewish men die before their wives?


BECAUSE THEY WANT TO!

[Kriss]

You lost me here: since it's still not possible to concentrate the nerve endings in a post op clitoris,

Did you read that somewhere?

All i know is what i know from experience, I am quite ignorant about the 'plumbing' but what you SAY "is not possible" cannot change what I know by my own eyes and tongue.




I am not saying the best GG's aren't more attractive than the best TS's. The best GG's are absolutely more attractive than the best TS. However, I am saying that after that 10% of attractive, single GG's, the next 90% aren't all that. .

Factors which I think you are leaving out:

1)Not all post-op TG's fall into the looks category you are talking about. There are plenty who aren't as good looking as the group of GG's which you yourself describe.

But Vicki Does fall into that attractive 10% category, which is why she may "leave that factor out"

[slinky]

You lost me here: since it's still not possible to concentrate the nerve endings in a post op clitoris,

Did you read that somewhere?

All i know is what i know from experience, I am quite ignorant about the 'plumbing' but what you SAY "is not possible" cannot change what I know by my own eyes and tongue.

I won't get into a whole debate, but here's one citation:

http://www.the-clitoris.com/n_html/vulva.htm :
"The glans of the clitoris has just as many nerve endings as does the glans of the penis, just in a much smaller area"

[slinky]

BTW Am I the only person who has this nagging sense of "fake drama" here?

[BeardedOne]

[quote]My 'rents suffered together for nineteen years "For the kids". Then my dad escaped via death.


Why do Jewish men die before their wives?


BECAUSE THEY WANT TO!

I was the token Catholic in a predominently Jewish community, so I soooooo understand the humor of this.

[BeardedOne]

BTW Am I the only person who has this nagging sense of "fake drama" here?

Vicki started it. :wink:

[Kriss]

Stop it... GG's don't squirt. That was made up by the porn industry. It is peeing. Trust me.

To be honest I did have a girlfriend who would occaisionally squirt, she did it twice in 3 years with me and only after hours of sex, especially cunnilingus or "eatin' pussy". It was NOT piss and was NOT semenal fluid, it was watery, odourless, clear and accompanied a monumental 4th or 5th orgasm. I will admit that it kinda freaked me out and to this day I am surprised that anyone would be turned on by this, the idea of 'squirting ' porn is just bizzare.

But there was a lot of this liquid and i don't know where it came from, uteris, womb? but it was clear and definately not piss, it's not appealing tho in any way.

It is probable that most porn 'squirting' is fake and set up, but women do squirt, again I have seen it.


Kriss... interesting you seem to think you know so much and yet know so little.

Erm, I guess.


GG's can get sopping wet... but squirting, as it is seen in porn, is not physically possible.

Ive never seen the porn you speak of, it is unappealing, not repulsive, just not sexy, more like a momentary fit of uncontrollable farting that doesn't smell. Not disgusting but somehow disturbing and 'niet normaal'

[slinky]

ok, I can't help myself:

http://www.mypleasure.com/education/qanda/questions/1093.asp


http://www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/winkelmann/

http://www.mens-rights.net/sexism/television.htm :
"The testicles and clitoris are both extremely sensitive to pain as they both contain a high population density of unmyelinated fascicles known as 'C-Fibres'. The clitoris is similar in structure to the penis however the nerve endings within the clitoris are far different to the nerve endings found within the penis. The clitoris contains around 8,000 nerve endings, and the vast majority of them happen to be either the thinly myelinated A-Delta Fibres which produce a sharp, burning pain that is quick in nature when activated, and the unmyelinated C-Fibres which produce a dull and throbbing pain that is prolonged in nature when activated.

The penis contains around 4,000 nerve endings, with the majority of them being tactile receptors that do not respond to pain."


http://www.themarriagebed.com/pages/biology/plumbing/female-plumbing-nopics.shtml
"The clitoris: Often described as a small penis, the analogy leads to some misconceptions. The glans or head of the clitoris has more nerve endings than the glans of the penis, packed into a much smaller area"

[BeardedOne]

GG's can get sopping wet... but squirting, as it is seen in porn, is not physically possible.

Beg to differ, sweetness. I nearly drowned in one of my lovers and I swear to god (Sadistic muthahfuggah that he is) it wasn't piss - Don't ask me how I know the difference. :oops:

[hondarobot]

I have decided that post-op is a good thing. Maybe even a very good thing. I saw a girls vagina in NYC and I was impressed with it. Her scars were internal and from what I could see it was a very pretty pussy. I really think it's great when girls go post op and live that complete dream instead of the halfway abyss that many of us seem to find ourselves in.

I have come to find that most guys into TS, even pure tops, have an arrousal for the cock attachment. I guess it is because it is just so wrong and they like to give blow jobs. I mean if I was a straightish guy, but liked cock, I wouldn't really want to blow hairy or muscular man cock. I would want smooth, perfumed, pretty clit cock. Since I am not a man, I tend to not discriminate to that level.

Just the same, I also think girls like Jessica Body (or whatever name she is going by today) that go post op young, have a much better opportunity to enjoy life as a woman instead of as a TS woman. Many of us waste our youth thinking it is all about making money, but I think there is a sacrifice there.

Regardless of how I feel about it. I am a role model for some girls. I would rather be a role model who lived a more complete life instead of a facade that is pornography and sex work. I don't love my cock, nor do I hate it. However, I do view it as an obstacle to leading a normal life. Semi-normal I can do. I think what I want is a guy who would marry a TS, but isn't married to her having a dick.

The question I hear a lot is, "why would I want a post-op instead of a real girl? If I want pussy I would just fuck a real one." It's a joke, especially when you see some of the guys asking the questions. Maybe it is because the best GG you could get is average at best, and might look like Rosey O'D, but you might be able to bring in a very above average post-op TS woman as a girlfriend. I would rather fuck a pretty passable TS than an ugly GG and despite what most men might say, I think they secretly would feel the same way most of the time.

Anyway - feel free to debate. I'm in a mood.

~V~

End of debate: It's a surgery that has produced some amazing results so far. At the moment, that's not assured. In the future, the results will be much improved. Probably within the next decade, but who knows?

[yodajazz]

I have decided that post-op is a good thing....
~V~

I can’t argue against any woman who wants to have the surgery, if that what she wants. I do believe that there are greater opportunities for post op women. My only regret is that some post women still have to hide, and don’t support the community that may have helped them along the way. They don’t want to be associated with their past. But people who reach out and help others are ultimately happier. A lot of people settle down into a long term relationship, but there will be a time when you will want even more, and for many that means a life that makes a difference to make the world a better place.

But Vicki is one who won't be able to hide, anyway. Go for what you want. Just don’t forget how you became you, so that you don’t lose part of your soul along the way. Much success!

[peggygee]

PS For those guys who claim it's not about the cock, see how much LESS attention post-op girls get when they show up at the exact same events with pre-op girls and explain that one to me.

I haven't been to those events but I think that your statement is probably true that post op girls will get less attention at TS clubs and events. I will explain why this is so

1. Guys at those clubs are there to experience and meet Pre-op TS because that is what they expect and that is how the night is advertised.

2. Post -op TS may be generally slightly older and thus may be more concerned with career/relationship/creativity, Building the 'inner person' to fill the body they have crafted and presumably 'completed' (except you girls always want to change something).
Basically i suspect the Post ops are doing other "hetero" things with their life rather than hanging out at every 'tranny bar'

3 It seems that many of the pre op TS at these "events" are there partly to promote thier sex work, escorting, porno, etc. I think many post ops tend to stop or reduce the sex work or continue it "stealth" as female.
Post ops TS CANNOT make money from escorting or porn like Pre op girls can, its true. There are post op TS escorts in U.K. that persistantly state that they are Pre-op on adverts, When guys want a TS , they are looking for a PRE-OP.

People like EROS do not help as they list 'transvestites' or 'crossdressers' together with 'transexual' girls in one group 'TV/TS'. They bizarrely list post op TS in this category when they should be listed as FEMALE , yet clearly state that they are Transexual.

Yes it's a BIG step and sometimes it works well enough to fool most men (not that difficult as men are VERY ignorant and a bit scared of VAGINAS), and sometimes the surgery is unsucsessful but the operation can work.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/latepass.jpg

I apologize that I am joining the thread a little late.

At this point I have read roughly five pages of the thread, and there
appears to be at least two distinct themes being put forth:

1. The first is to the surgical results of the GRS, vis a vis aesthetics and
functionality. That point I will deal with in a follow up post.

2. The second is in regards to quality of life for the post op woman.

While I do know many post operative women, and have researched the
topic extensively, I will speak solely from my experience as a post op.

For me, Kriss's assessment is for the most part spot on.

I don't go to tranny or gay bars, not that I frequent bars for that matter.
Transgendered dating sites, events, and venues, tend to bring out men
who are seeking pre / non op transwomen. They usually are not interested
in me, nor I interested in them, because I don't have a penis.

Quite frankly men aren't the main focus point of my life, but potential
matches for me are found in hetero settings: traditional dating
sites like match.com, true.com, and the like. I might meet someone in a
jazz supper club, a bookstore, in academia, maybe at Church, not so
much in the workplace as I am reluctant to date people at work, but I do
currently have a guy sweating me at my job. :?

When I tell men about my herstory, the fact that I once upon a time had
a penis isn't quite as important as the fact that I currently have a vagina.

At this stage of my life I don't have any 'tranny drama', I'm not worried
about mones, sil, FFS, GRS, breast augmentation, or any of the aspects
of transitioning.

For me fortunately those things are behind me. Basically the truly
important issues for me are family concerns, career and academic
growth, and last but equally important spiritual and emotional growth
and stability.


http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/needs1.gif

[peggygee]

My real point was that no matter what you hear, a man made pussy isn't the same as a natural one. Not bad, just not the same.

And I've heard all the stories about using the glans to create a clit. Never heard of one which actually worked like one post surgery: every post op I've spoken to "feels the sex" in her new cavity, in sort of a weird way likes it's still outside, but inverted.

I've never met one who's talked about her new clit being the source of orgasms of "the sex".

I'd love to hear differenlty from some post ops with first hand info on this.




I will be uncustomarily brief with my response, in fact this is a re-post.
I have to go work on my pyramid. :wink:

But here is my experience:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/Icamecrop3x2.jpg

If you know me, you know there isn't going to be a simple answer. :smh

And I will have to get back to you on the statistical averages for post op
women.

But I can attempt to give you the answer, but as per my usual, it's
complicated.

If I am masturbating I may have either a vaginal or clitoral orgasm.
What's the difference you ask?

The difference between a "clitoral" and a "vaginal" orgasm is where
you are being stimulated to achieve orgasm, not where you feel
the orgasm..

Thus if I or someone else is fucking me vaginally, without much clitoral
stimulation I may come that way.

If while I am fucking, or if oral sex is being performed on me and
attention is being paid to my clitoris I may reach orgasm that way.

Also something interesting that happens to me is that I tend to have a
fairly high number of wet dreams, and may have an orgasm while I am
sleeping. Pre and post op I have had nocturnal emissions.

Additionally if properly stimulated I may be able to have a second or
third orgasm, in a fairly short period of time, though the latter ones will
not be as strong as the first one.

As with many women I am far more apt to come via masturbation, as I
know what gets me off. Though if my partner knows my body, and he's a
'man with a slow hand' he will be able to bring me to orgasm.

Do I have orgasm every time I have sex?

No.

I would say about 85% - 90% through masturbation, and perhaps
60% - 70% with a partner, though the average improves as my partner
knows my needs. Time of day, if I am fatiqued, etc are also variables.

Though 99.9% of the times, the journey is as great as the destination.

[El Nino]

I have seen a GG squirt upon orgasm, across the room, at least 8 feet. It is a real phenomenon Vicki. End of discussion

[Vicki Richter]

I have seen a GG squirt upon orgasm, across the room, at least 8 feet. It is a real phenomenon Vicki. End of discussion

You saw her peeing across the room. End of discussion.

[callahac]

Vicki,
A couple of things:

Just a little background so you know where I am coming from. I'm a married guy with kids. I have had sex with sehnales, men and obviously women (yes, my wife knows). There were many reasons why I got married- love for my wife and the desire to have kids were at the top of the list. Sex was not at the top- I honestly prefer cock over pussy (my wife knows this as well). I do find women very attractive, and they do turn me on, just not the same as a shemale or man would.

So, if you did get SRS, you would just be a very pretty girl, nothing more, and there are tons of pretty girls. So you would be less desirable to me. I'm sure there are pleny other guys on this board that would feel the same way- they just won't admit that the yare cock lovers.

Second thing. If you want to lead a "normal" life the other option is maybe to go back to being a man- remove the breast implants, stop the hormones, etc. I know htis is going to piss alot of people off but it is an option.

Personally you should do whatever makes you happy, but I wouldn't go under the knife just so you can be "normal", go under only if you truly want to be a woman.

[Night Rider]

[callahac wrote:
I have had sex with sehnales]

I don't even want to know what they are!!

[callahac wrote:
I honestly prefer cock over pussy (my wife knows this as well). I do find women very attractive, and they do turn me on, just not the same as a shemale or man would........If you want to lead a "normal" life the other option is maybe to go back to being a man- remove the breast implants, stop the hormones, etc.]

Do not listen to a single word this guy has to say..he's talking out of his ring.

I don't know why your having to get reassurance from a forum where 70/80% are into guys cocks...You're a goodlooking girl and if you want to go post-op then go for it. I'll still fancy you as much though with a she-cock!

[callahac]

Night Rider,
Why do you have to be so hostile- it was a typo- I was outside on my lap top....sun kind of kills visibility.

For that matter why are so many other people so hostile here? I don't get it.

[slinky]

I have seen a GG squirt upon orgasm, across the room, at least 8 feet. It is a real phenomenon Vicki. End of discussion

You saw her peeing across the room. End of discussion.

Leaving aside the argument of whether squirting is real or not, I agree that the "proof" wasn't proof.

[slinky]

So, if you did get SRS, you would just be a very pretty girl, nothing more, and there are tons of pretty girls. So you would be less desirable to me. I'm sure there are pleny other guys on this board that would feel the same way- they just won't admit that the yare cock lovers.

...

Personally you should do whatever makes you happy, but I wouldn't go under the knife just so you can be "normal", go under only if you truly want to be a woman.



[I don't know why your having to get reassurance from a forum where 70/80% are into guys cocks...You're a goodlooking girl and if you want to go post-op then go for it. I'll still fancy you as much though with a she-cock!


I guess one of the things I've been trying to say is, let's split the population of men into tranny chesers and not tranny chasers:

the vast majority of tranny chasers want a girl with a cock.

the vast majority of not tranny chasers won't accept a post op as a partner.

So, the result is that you're really narrowing down your succes rate.

But the real bottom line is the last thing callahac said: "you should do whatever makes you happy".

[mbf]

For that matter why are so many other people so hostile here? I don't get it.

insecurity, low-self esteem, over-competitiveness, confusion .... :(

[mbf]

I guess one of the things I've been trying to say is, let's split the population of men into tranny chesers and not tranny chasers:

the vast majority of tranny chasers want a girl with a cock.

the vast majority of not tranny chasers won't accept a post op as a partner.

So, the result is that you're really narrowing down your succes rate.

But the real bottom line is the last thing callahac said: "you should do whatever makes you happy".

truer words seldomly have been posted on here.....

[Night Rider]

Danny partridge wrote:
the vast majority of tranny chasers want a girl with a cock

That's very true and I'm on the same boat. But there are also a lot of men out there won't accept a girl with a cock, so its 6 of 1, 1/2 dozen the other.

[Night Rider]

I'm only hostile to tossers that I think deserve it..That aside i'm alright!

[mbf wrote:
insecurity, low-self esteem, over-competitiveness, confusion ....]

Confusion? Coming from someone who's got a peado as his avatar

[dreamer]

I dunno ---I skipped every answer to your thread here ----I just wanna say ---I think you're pretty cool Vicky ---and a while back ---I watched your utube stuff ---you have a very nice voice --and come across as an established woman ---but there's quite a child underneath it all

(meaning --that your spirit is not as experienced as your look or sound)



(whatever THAT means)

[slinky]

Danny partridge wrote:
the vast majority of tranny chasers want a girl with a cock

That's very true and I'm on the same boat. But there are also a lot of men out there won't accept a girl with a cock, so its 6 of 1, 1/2 dozen the other.

Did you really read that whole post?

[Night Rider]

yea but i fell asleep halfway through cos it was that boring

[Ecstatic]

Second thing. If you want to lead a "normal" life the other option is maybe to go back to being a man- remove the breast implants, stop the hormones, etc. I know htis is going to piss alot of people off but it is an option.

Do you also think being gay is an option? Being transgendered isn't a choice, it's the condition of one's gender not matching one's primary physical sex; hence, dysphoria.

There cases (q.v. Lisa Lawer) where going back to being a man is appropriate, but such an individual was never transsexual to begin with (though transgendered, yes: that's a much bigger umbrella).

[SarahG]

I'm only hostile to tossers that I think deserve it..That aside i'm alright!

[mbf wrote:
insecurity, low-self esteem, over-competitiveness, confusion ....]

Confusion? Coming from someone who's got a peado as his avatar

Kissinger is a pedo? I missed that story, got a link about it?

Not trying to play fact check here, I am really interested by that statement. Without going insanely offtopic, I have read things that have indicated that Kissinger was the only thing keeping Nixon from doing dumb stuff in those days when he was really really mentally disturbed. Like he would be alone in rooms having conversations with paintings and statues (thinking they were talking back). If Nixon made any completely random, crazy order- kissinger was part of the chain of command during this time to make sure no one followed the presidents orders without double checking them with other people. Logical in a way, what if Nixon in a crazed state ordered that we nuke, say, Ohio?

Ok getting back ontopic...



Second thing. If you want to lead a "normal" life the other option is maybe to go back to being a man- remove the breast implants, stop the hormones, etc. I know htis is going to piss alot of people off but it is an option.


If you had any remote understanding of the situation you'd realize the fallacy of that argument. That's like saying gays can just "go back to being hetero" if they don't differences in perceived lifestyle. I say perceived because there is nothing inheritantly abnormal about "life for postops"

[slinky]

yea but i fell asleep halfway through cos it was that boring

When your IQ is room temperature I guess it's tough to fit more than one tiny little concept into your brain at the same time.

[Kriss]

Kissinger is a pedo? I missed that story, got a link about it?

13 Minutes into this video Navy Wife Kay Griggs says how Kissinger raped young boys.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2112403836095153465

14 minutes into this video she explains how General trefay stopped shipment of weapons to vietnam AFTER the war and was then told directly by Henry Kissingboys that the sale of weapons was to "CONTINUE AT THE WARTIME RATE". The general said this LIVE on C-SPAN!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5004673647353582620

full interview in 2 parts

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-341031042963487862&q=kay+griggs&total=68&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9137016279925999679&q=kay+griggs&total=68&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

Henry Kissinger resigns from 9/11 Commission when exposed he works 4 Bin Laden's

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4111216247202376017&q=kissinger+911&total=132&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

Documentary The Trials Of Henry Kissinger

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2815881561030958784&q=the+trials+of+henry+kissenger&total=51&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

Abuse and mind-control victim Brice Taylor names Kissinger as her primary programmer. She also names her first 'owner' bob hope, and explains how she was a presidential sex slave for presidents ford and reagan.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2015144389176938489&q=brice+taylor&total=17&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=3

C.I.A. MK ULTRA Mind control victim Cathy O Brien's book as a PDF. she names papa George bush, reagan,hillary clinton 'temple of set' founder and council on foprien relations head michael achino and how bill clinton was put in when the people got tired of the republican party.

http://www.sbindymedia.org/usermedia/application/4/tranceformation_of_america.pdf

It is a shocking story of the most sickening abuse and i think no-one could make this stuff up. Also i think "what has she got to gain by lying?" NOT MUCH. Then i think "What has the CIA and government got to gain by lying?" A LOT AND I already KNOW that government are LIARS.

[mikki03]

I wish you lots of luck but whatever you do do let them mess with that pretty ass of yours you wear it well

[hondarobot]

Kissinger is a pedo? I missed that story, got a link about it?

Abuse and mind-control victim Brice Taylor names Kissinger as her primary programmer. She also names her first 'owner' bob hope, and explains how she was a presidential sex slave for presidents ford and reagan.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-299634293004885026

13 Minutes into this video Navy Wife Kay Griggs says how Kissinger raped young boys.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2112403836095153465

14 minutes into this video she explains how General trefay stopped shipment of weapons to vietnam AFTER the war and was then told directly by Henry Kissingboys that the sale of weapons was to "CONTINUE AT THE WARTIME RATE". The general said this LIVE on C-SPAN!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5004673647353582620

full interview in 2 parts

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-341031042963487862&q=kay+griggs&total=68&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9137016279925999679&q=kay+griggs&total=68&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

Henry Kissinger resigns from 9/11 Commission when exposed he works 4 Bin Laden's

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4111216247202376017&q=kissinger+911&total=132&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

Documentary The Trials Of Henry Kissinger

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2815881561030958784&q=the+trials+of+henry+kissenger&total=51&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

C.I.A. MK ULTRA Mind control victim Cathy O Brien's book as a PDF. she names papa George bush, reagan,hillary clinton 'temple of set' founder and council on foprien relations head michael achino and how bill clinton was put in when the people got tired of the republican party.

http://www.sbindymedia.org/usermedia/application/4/tranceformation_of_america.pdf

It is a shocking story of the most sickening abuse and i think no-one could make this stuff up. Also i think "what has she got to gain by lying?" NOT MUCH. Then i think "What has the CIA and government got to gain by lying?" A LOT AND I already KNOW that government are LIARS.

Ha! I watched that first video, and that was enough for me.

Guy With Radio Shack Microphone (GWRSM): "Did you have sex with Jimmy Carter?"

Crazy Woman (CW): "No, I did not."

GWRSM: "Did you have, or was there any homosexual activity you were involved in?"

CW: "With Jimmy Carter?"

The whole thing was pretty damn stupid, but I did laugh at that part. I didn't watch the other videos. Koo koo.

[GinX]

Kissinger is a pedo? I missed that story, got a link about it?

Abuse and mind-control victim Brice Taylor names Kissinger as her primary programmer. She also names her first 'owner' bob hope, and explains how she was a presidential sex slave for presidents ford and reagan.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-299634293004885026

13 Minutes into this video Navy Wife Kay Griggs says how Kissinger raped young boys.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2112403836095153465

14 minutes into this video she explains how General trefay stopped shipment of weapons to vietnam AFTER the war and was then told directly by Henry Kissingboys that the sale of weapons was to "CONTINUE AT THE WARTIME RATE". The general said this LIVE on C-SPAN!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5004673647353582620

full interview in 2 parts

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-341031042963487862&q=kay+griggs&total=68&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9137016279925999679&q=kay+griggs&total=68&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

Henry Kissinger resigns from 9/11 Commission when exposed he works 4 Bin Laden's

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4111216247202376017&q=kissinger+911&total=132&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

Documentary The Trials Of Henry Kissinger

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2815881561030958784&q=the+trials+of+henry+kissenger&total=51&start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

C.I.A. MK ULTRA Mind control victim Cathy O Brien's book as a PDF. she names papa George bush, reagan,hillary clinton 'temple of set' founder and council on foprien relations head michael achino and how bill clinton was put in when the people got tired of the republican party.

http://www.sbindymedia.org/usermedia/application/4/tranceformation_of_america.pdf

It is a shocking story of the most sickening abuse and i think no-one could make this stuff up. Also i think "what has she got to gain by lying?" NOT MUCH. Then i think "What has the CIA and government got to gain by lying?" A LOT AND I already KNOW that government are LIARS.

Of course YouTube, like Wikipedia, is an absolutely perfect source for accurate data. They are so perfect, in fact, that anyone who can point, click and type can expose even the most clever, complex and intricate conspiracies that our government can dream up. This is in addition to the fact that those doing the exposing are perfectly reliable and credible. It's just like those two guys, both community college students, who were able, after watching about 12 seconds of video documenting the 9/11 attacks, deduce that the 9/11 attacks were, in fact, part of an inside job pulled off by our own government. This is all perfectly sound, logical and credible.

Right. And I'm a three-armed Chinese jet pilot.

[Night Rider]

yea but i fell asleep halfway through cos it was that boring

When your IQ is room temperature I guess it's tough to fit more than one tiny little concept into your brain at the same time.

hmmm 3hours to come up with that...bit of advice...try cod liver oil twice a day before its too late ;)

[callahac]

Second thing. If you want to lead a "normal" life the other option is maybe to go back to being a man- remove the breast implants, stop the hormones, etc. I know htis is going to piss alot of people off but it is an option.

Do you also think being gay is an option? Being transgendered isn't a choice, it's the condition of one's gender not matching one's primary physical sex; hence, dysphoria.

There cases (q.v. Lisa Lawer) where going back to being a man is appropriate, but such an individual was never transsexual to begin with (though transgendered, yes: that's a much bigger umbrella).

Hey Estatic,
Did I say I think anyone one of those things are an option? No what I said if she wants to conform to what is considered "normal" and lead a "normal life" than she has two options. I also mentioned in the end that she should do whatever makes her happy.

There seems to be a lack of open mindedness on this board it is either "group think" or the highway. Pretty sad.

[hondarobot]

Second thing. If you want to lead a "normal" life the other option is maybe to go back to being a man- remove the breast implants, stop the hormones, etc. I know htis is going to piss alot of people off but it is an option.

Do you also think being gay is an option? Being transgendered isn't a choice, it's the condition of one's gender not matching one's primary physical sex; hence, dysphoria.

There cases (q.v. Lisa Lawer) where going back to being a man is appropriate, but such an individual was never transsexual to begin with (though transgendered, yes: that's a much bigger umbrella).

Hey Estatic,
Did I say I think anyone one of those things are an option? No what I said if she wants to conform to what is considered "normal" and lead a "normal life" than she has two options. I also mentioned in the end that she should do whatever makes her happy.

There seems to be a lack of open mindedness on this board it is either "group think" or the highway. Pretty sad.

I think everyone agrees that you should be banned for exposing the secret "group think" cabal. And if anyone doesn't agree with that, they should be banned as well.

:P

[Ecstatic]

Hey Estatic,
Did I say I think anyone one of those things are an option? No what I said if she wants to conform to what is considered "normal" and lead a "normal life" than she has two options. I also mentioned in the end that she should do whatever makes her happy.

There seems to be a lack of open mindedness on this board it is either "group think" or the highway. Pretty sad.
Yes, you said and I quote, "If you want to lead a "normal" life the other option is maybe to go back to being a man." My response is that there is no "option" here because being transgendered isn't a choice, any more than being tall or Spanish or born with male sex organs is a choice. Seems to me that you are the one lacking openmindedness in this instance.

[Kriss]

I didn't watch the other videos. Koo koo.

BUT YOU REALLY SHOULD. At least watch a few seconds of the KAY GRIGGS vidoe. THAT one is shocking AND CREDIBLE.

13 Minutes into this video Navy Wife Kay Griggs says how Kissinger raped young boys.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2112403836095153465

14 minutes into this video she explains how General trefay stopped shipment of weapons to vietnam AFTER the war and was then told directly by Henry Kissingboys that the sale of weapons was to "CONTINUE AT THE WARTIME RATE". The general said this LIVE on C-SPAN!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5004673647353582620


anyone who can point, click and type can expose even the most clever, complex and intricate conspiracies that our government can dream up. This is in addition to the fact that those doing the exposing are perfectly reliable and credible............. This is all perfectly sound, logical and credible.

What you have to ask yourself is WHAT do these people have to GAIN from telling us these things. What do I know about thier credibility?

both times the answer is NOT VERY MUCH.

Then ask WHAT does the powerful elite have to GAIN from the accusations levelled at them?

A HELL OF A LOT

What do I KNOW about their credibility?

Well I KNOW governments to be LIARS and that they are constantly changing their story.

[SarahG]

I didn't watch the other videos. Koo koo.

BUT YOU REALLY SHOULD. At least watch a few seconds of the KAY GRIGGS vidoe. THAT one is shocking AND CREDIBLE.

13 Minutes into this video Navy Wife Kay Griggs says how Kissinger raped young boys.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2112403836095153465

14 minutes into this video she explains how General trefay stopped shipment of weapons to vietnam AFTER the war and was then told directly by Henry Kissingboys that the sale of weapons was to "CONTINUE AT THE WARTIME RATE". The general said this LIVE on C-SPAN!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5004673647353582620


anyone who can point, click and type can expose even the most clever, complex and intricate conspiracies that our government can dream up. This is in addition to the fact that those doing the exposing are perfectly reliable and credible............. This is all perfectly sound, logical and credible.

What you have to ask yourself is WHAT do these people have to GAIN from telling us these things. What do I know about thier credibility?

both times the answer is NOT VERY MUCH.

Then ask WHAT does the powerful elite have to GAIN from the accusations levelled at them?

A HELL OF A LOT

What do I KNOW about their credibility?

Well I KNOW governments to be LIARS and that they are constantly changing their story.

The Roman judical system would, in a case involving a crime- determine the verdict based on who had what to gain from a given action.

There is a reason why we don't do it that way anymore.

The world is far more complex than simple gains & losses and people take comfort in being able to blame events on a higher power, even if there is no rational or evidence behind it. Remember after Katrina when some girl testified at Congress that she saw government aircraft bomb the levies during the heat of the storm? That is the type of example that comes to my mind.

[GinX]

I didn't watch the other videos. Koo koo.

BUT YOU REALLY SHOULD. At least watch a few seconds of the KAY GRIGGS vidoe. THAT one is shocking AND CREDIBLE.

13 Minutes into this video Navy Wife Kay Griggs says how Kissinger raped young boys.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2112403836095153465

14 minutes into this video she explains how General trefay stopped shipment of weapons to vietnam AFTER the war and was then told directly by Henry Kissingboys that the sale of weapons was to "CONTINUE AT THE WARTIME RATE". The general said this LIVE on C-SPAN!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5004673647353582620


anyone who can point, click and type can expose even the most clever, complex and intricate conspiracies that our government can dream up. This is in addition to the fact that those doing the exposing are perfectly reliable and credible............. This is all perfectly sound, logical and credible.

What you have to ask yourself is WHAT do these people have to GAIN from telling us these things. What do I know about thier credibility?

both times the answer is NOT VERY MUCH.

Then ask WHAT does the powerful elite have to GAIN from the accusations levelled at them?

A HELL OF A LOT

What do I KNOW about their credibility?

Well I KNOW governments to be LIARS and that they are constantly changing their story.


What do these people have to gain from telling us these "truths"? Well...quite a bit, actually...if they want to put a little time into it. See, this country is so conspiracy-happy, that most of us will sit down and entertain even the most absurd conspiracy stories...in fact, many of us will PAY to do so. Now, I have no idea if the people you reference above have profited from telling their stories...but I would be more than willing to bet they have. Conspiracy stories are the new con and scam in our country and many people take advantage of that.

And what does the government have to gain? Well...not much, especially when their "secrets" are so easily revealed. Do you think the government would be so inept and incompetent as to allow for even a fraction of this knowledge to reach the general public if they could help it? That they would risk losing that much face and credibility? It's the same reason as to why the government is not behind 9/11...the risk is not worth the reward.

[hondarobot]

I didn't watch the other videos. Koo koo.

BUT YOU REALLY SHOULD. At least watch a few seconds of the KAY GRIGGS vidoe. THAT one is shocking AND CREDIBLE.

13 Minutes into this video Navy Wife Kay Griggs says how Kissinger raped young boys.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2112403836095153465

14 minutes into this video she explains how General trefay stopped shipment of weapons to vietnam AFTER the war and was then told directly by Henry Kissingboys that the sale of weapons was to "CONTINUE AT THE WARTIME RATE". The general said this LIVE on C-SPAN!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5004673647353582620


anyone who can point, click and type can expose even the most clever, complex and intricate conspiracies that our government can dream up. This is in addition to the fact that those doing the exposing are perfectly reliable and credible............. This is all perfectly sound, logical and credible.

What you have to ask yourself is WHAT do these people have to GAIN from telling us these things. What do I know about thier credibility?

both times the answer is NOT VERY MUCH.

Then ask WHAT does the powerful elite have to GAIN from the accusations levelled at them?

A HELL OF A LOT

What do I KNOW about their credibility?

Well I KNOW governments to be LIARS and that they are constantly changing their story.

What does this Brice Taylor have to gain? Well, she is selling a book apparently. I suppose that could be some sort of motivation. She's could possibly be insane and actually believes all these wealthy and powerful people raped and mind controlled her. It could also be some sort "Church Of The Sub Genius" prank, and I'm sure plenty of people would fall for it or enjoy the absurd humor of it.

Either way, it's obviously not possible to give any credence to her story at all. And no, I'm not going to watch the other videos.

[cockcraver]

this ongoing cat fight has absolutely fuck all to do with the post

[hondarobot]

this ongoing cat fight has absolutely fuck all to do with the post

We're done discussing SRS for the time being, and have moved on to Henry Kissinger. You must be new around here if you find this turn of events unusual.

:wink:

[cockcraver]

i'll leave u to it then ;)

[Kriss]

Remember after Katrina when some girl testified at Congress that she saw government aircraft bomb the levies during the heat of the storm? That is the type of example that comes to my mind.

NO i don't remember that , but now you mention it, that makes a LOT OF SENSE.

KATRINA was OBVIOUSLY an excersise in how to create an emergency and then lock all the people in the superdomes, roadblock the ways out of town and send BLACKWATER security gaurds door to door collecting guns, they even did it in the rich white neighbourhoods. But KATRINA was obviously A FEMA excersise. and who suffered? POOR BLACK AMERICANS. you can spin it ANYWAY you want, they locked those people into that stinking polluted hell for 6 days and would not even let them walk to any place better.


:)

Then talk about the original subject, you are just perpetuating the current direction.

[GinX]

Remember after Katrina when some girl testified at Congress that she saw government aircraft bomb the levies during the heat of the storm? That is the type of example that comes to my mind.

NO i don't remember that , but now you mention it, that makes a LOT OF SENSE.

KATRINA was OBVIOUSLY an excersise in how to create an emergency and then lock all the people in the superdomes, roadblock the ways out of town and send BLACKWATER security gaurds door to door collecting guns, they even did it in the rich white neighbourhoods. But KATRINA was obviously A FEMA excersise. and who suffered? POOR BLACK AMERICANS. you can spin it ANYWAY you want, they locked those people into that stinking polluted hell for 6 days and would not even let them walk to any place better.


:)

Then talk about the original subject, you are just perpetuating the current direction.


You cannot be serious. Either this whole conspiracy loving persona of yours is some sort of joke or you are incredibly paranoid, gullible and irresponsible. I suppose next you're going to tell us that Pluto no longer having status as a planet, Christ's crucifixion and the 1980 U.S. Olympic hockey team getting the gold are all conspiracies of the U.S. government.

[Felicia Katt]

this ongoing cat fight has absolutely fuck all to do with the post
well, it might still be on topic if the op in question is a lobotomy....LOL

meow

FK

[SarahG]

Remember after Katrina when some girl testified at Congress that she saw government aircraft bomb the levies during the heat of the storm? That is the type of example that comes to my mind.

NO i don't remember that , but now you mention it, that makes a LOT OF SENSE.

KATRINA was OBVIOUSLY an excersise in how to create an emergency and then lock all the people in the superdomes, roadblock the ways out of town and send BLACKWATER security gaurds door to door collecting guns, they even did it in the rich white neighbourhoods. But KATRINA was obviously A FEMA excersise. and who suffered? POOR BLACK AMERICANS. you can spin it ANYWAY you want, they locked those people into that stinking polluted hell for 6 days and would not even let them walk to any place better.


The government did not bomb the levies :roll:

Never underestimate governmental incompitance, which is what happened with the levies. Our whole infrastructure is left over from the cold war. A huge portion of our stuff was never ever intended to last this long. People refuse to pay the taxes which would be required to maintain... let alone update/replace our roadways, bridges, dams, levies, flood control systems and other such facilities.

I agree with you that once Katrina took out the levies and went to hell, all kinds of things were done improperly, illegally, or unconstitutionally such as the confiscation of firearms in the area.

As to Blackwater... our military is stretched so thin, we are left in a time when merc's are a requirement of which we depend on; rather we want to or not. I don't use the term merc as an insult, although there are people who take it to mean that.

[GinX]

this ongoing cat fight has absolutely fuck all to do with the post
well, it might still be on topic if the op in question is a lobotomy....LOL

meow

FK

Here's another off topic statement but just as important....Felicia...WOW...you are GORGEOUS.

[Kriss]

this ongoing cat fight has absolutely fuck all to do with the post
well, it might still be on topic if the op in question is a lobotomy....LOL

meow

FK

Here's another off topic statement but just as important....Felicia...WOW...you are GORGEOUS.

For a part time crossdresser.

[hondarobot]

this ongoing cat fight has absolutely fuck all to do with the post
well, it might still be on topic if the op in question is a lobotomy....LOL

meow

FK

Here's another off topic statement but just as important....Felicia...WOW...you are GORGEOUS.

For a part time crossdresser.

That was a really stupid thing to post.

(On an unrelated note, yeah, I get my deleted posts tonight, I'm being an ass).

Fucking with Felicia is completely stupid.

[Felicia Katt]

this ongoing cat fight has absolutely fuck all to do with the post
well, it might still be on topic if the op in question is a lobotomy....LOL

meow

FK

Here's another off topic statement but just as important....Felicia...WOW...you are GORGEOUS.

Thank you :)

[Felicia Katt]

this ongoing cat fight has absolutely fuck all to do with the post
well, it might still be on topic if the op in question is a lobotomy....LOL

meow

FK

Here's another off topic statement but just as important....Felicia...WOW...you are GORGEOUS.

For a part time crossdresser.
and what is your opinion when you take all your meds? LOL

meow

FK

[mbf]

this ongoing cat fight has absolutely fuck all to do with the post
well, it might still be on topic if the op in question is a lobotomy....LOL

meow

FK

Here's another off topic statement but just as important....Felicia...WOW...you are GORGEOUS.

For a part time crossdresser.
and what is your opinion when you take all your meds? LOL

meow

FK

you know where its coming from FK, from a full-time loonatic :roll: ...

[puddinfoot]

THIS JUST IN:

Henry Kissinger is Vicki Richter's father. Due to mounting influence from her penis-loving/hating papa, Vicki needs YOUR help in making her decision regarding SRS. It has nothing to do with wishy-washy personal feelings, but is entirely tied to:


1) dad's role in vietnam (first gay country ever by french colonization, thus the link with trannydom remains)
2) dad making pinochet the leader of chile
3) dad indirectly making decisions about the iraq war through dick cheney
4) vicki's resemblance to henry kissinger. SRS aint gonna fix that, baby!