Frank Zappa

[jamesb121]

question for you all, am i in the minority, in that i think Frank Zappa was a musical genius??

I'd appriciate your input

James

[Coroner]

A great guitarist and songwriter.

[mikejones]

Yes, I have always considered the benefits of being a dental floss tycoon.

[slinky]

raising it up, waxing it down... in a little white box that i can sell up town

[El Nino]

Of course he was. Anyone who would tell you different is a fucking tool...
And, not only was he a musical genius but also societally and philisophically as well... in my humble opinion

Lyrics to "I am the Slime" by Zappa

I am gross and perverted
Im obsessed n deranged
I have existed for years
But very little had changed
I am the tool of the government
And industry too
For I am destined to rule
And regulate you

I may be vile and pernicious
But you cant look away
I make you think Im delicious
With the stuff that I say
I am the best you can get
Have you guessed me yet?
I am the slime oozin out
From your tv set

You will obey me while I lead you
And eat the garbage that I feed you
Until the day that we dont need you
Dont got for help...no one will heed you
Your mind is totally controlled
It has been stuffed into my mold
And you will do as you are told
Until the rights to you are sold

Thats right, folks..
Dont touch that dial

Well, I am the slime from your video
Oozin along on your livinroom floor

I am the slime from your video
Cant stop the slime, people, lookit me go

[trish]

i count him as one of the most intelligent rock musicians of the last century. his music is unique, progressive and angular. i believe he wrote art music for the ensemble inter-contemorain (of paris?) which was conducted by pierre boulez and recorded by his paris institute for modern music. the slime is one of my favs.

is that a real poncho you're wearin', or is that a sears poncho?

[Ecstatic]

Watch out where the huskies go
And don't you eat the yellow snow

The crux of the bisquit is the apostrophe

Musical genius, absolutely. One of the very few rock songwriters quite capable of writing orchestral, symphonic, and choral work. One of the finest and most inventive guitarists from an era of great guitarists. Brilliant lyricist at times (though his scatalogical bent at times devalues his own musical compositions, which was part of his artistic intent). And utterly inimitable: there is no other quite like him.

[frankz]

See my nickname.
<<-------

[Ecstatic]

Hey frankz, you've been a member since Dec 2005 and this is your first post? Good taste in music!

[CORVETTEDUDE]

The guy was unbelievably talented, and incredibly intelligent. I understand his I.Q. was through the roof. But, what a wacko...Great, really great music!

[Tail Gunner]

His compisitions were amazing not to metion the musicians he had around him, my father directed a concert he did in NYC that's on video so I met him whem I was younger and then also met him at a book signing, had met Dweezil a few times also and we jammed my fav... guitar wants to killl your mother... in his studio...:)

[Steve-Oh]

Zappa - My hero!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have been in you, baby
You have been in me
Aw' little girl, there ain't no time
To wash yer stinky hand
Go 'head 'n' roll over
I'm goin' in you again
In you again
In you again
In you again ...
I'm goin' in you again-ahhh

[slinky]

for those of us over 40, remember frank when you're afraid to have your GP stick his digit up your butt.

[El Nino]

Joe's Garage is an excellent album. Highly recommended for those of you who don't own it. By the way, what's up with the correlation between F. Zappa and Hung Angel fans? Strange...

[Alan]

He was an absolute genius period. I have been a fan of frank since I heard the Freak Out and We're Only In It For The Money albums. The Flo and Eddie days and 200 Motels were great and pretty much everything he did was also. A lot do not know that he toured the world lecturing to symphony orchestras and was considered one of the great conductors of such music or that he was once Czekloslovakia's ambassador to the U.S. (I believe it was the Reagan administration that refused to acknowledge him so he resigned). He was also one of THE great rock-n-roll guitar players although that also got lost in the comedy music.
He wrote a great autobiography called The Real Frank Zappa Book back around 1990, it is well worth the reading and a must read for any true Zappa fan. He had among other things a great plan to eliminate the IRS by going to a straight sales tax with no exemptions whatsoever (including churches) and save the taxpayers a crapload of money that the IRS costs.


Frank Zappa - Magic Fingers Lyrics



Magic FingersMark volman (vocals)
Howard kaylan (vocals)
Ian underwood (keyboards, woodwinds)
Aynsley dunbar (drums)
George duke (keyboards, trombone)
Martin lickert (bass)
Ruth underwood (orchestra drum set)
Jim pons (vocals)


Mark volman & howard kaylan:
Ooh, the way you love me, lady,
I get so hard now I could die.
Ooh, the way you love me, sugar,
I get so hard now I could die.

Open up your pocketbook,
Get another quarter out,
Drop it in the meter, mama
And try me on for size.
Open up your pocketbook,
Get another quarter out,
Drop it in the meter, mama
And try me on for size.

Ooh, the way you squeeze me, baby,
Red balloons just pop behind my eyes.
Ooh, the way you squeeze me, girl,
Red balloons just pop behind my eyes.

Open up your pocketbook,
Get another quarter out,
Drop it in the meter, mama
And try me on for size.
Open up your pocketbook,
Get another quarter out,
Drop it in the meter, mama
And try me on for size.

Mark volman:
Do you really wanna please me?

Howard kaylan:
Y’know I do ... baby.

Mark volman:
Well, tell me why you do it...
I really wanna know.

Howard kaylan:
Oh no no, It wouldn’t be right
For me to tell ya tonight...

Mark volman:
You better tell me right away
Or I’ll dress up and go.

Howard kaylan:
Don’t get mad... it ain’t no big thing.

Mark volman:
You better tell me right away,
Don’t you treat me cold!

Howard kaylan:
Hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it!

Well, there are a lot of reasons why I’d drag a girl such as yourself back to
this plastic hotel room ... and rip you off for spare change to run a ...to run
a vibrating machine attached to this
N-size, bulk-purchase, kapok-infested, do-not-remove-tag-under-penalty-of-law
type bed and, and make you take off all your little clothes ... until you are
nearly stark raving nude. ( save for your
chrome-with-heavy- duty-leather-thong peace medallion) and make you assume a
series of marginally erotic poses involving a plastic chair and an old guitar
strap while I did a wee-wee in your hair
And beat you with a pair of tennis shoes I got from jeff beck...
Magic Fingers

[Jericho]

Titties and beer...Works for me! :peanutbutter

[south ov da border]

zappa= Great stuff...

[lewdguppy]

Franks was and is a genius

I've had the pleasure of seeing him play in Europe, spring '88

and just a week ago his son -Dweezil- came to my hometown with a great band (including former bandmembers of his old man) and did a "Zappa plays Zappa" show wich lasted well over 2.5 hours!

HELL YEAH!
:shock: :wink:

[jamesb121]

Seems in not alone..... Thank god for that! My 2 personal favorites: The Muffin Man And San'Berdino.

Its seems to me in the UK, most people are like 'whos Frank Zappa??'

Idiots!

[Plook]

"I'm gonna ram it, ram it, ram it
Ram it up yer poop chute!"

Zappa was an extraordinary person with a wicked sense of humour and an immense talent. He is without doubt one of the finest artists in human history. For me, he was beyond human... he was superhuman!

[Realgirls4me]

Will one of you who is a musician and also a fan of Zappa please explain how he is a "musical genius"? Isn't the "genius" label a bit of a stretch? What did he add to any genre, who did he influence, what's his music legacy, etc.? As a commentator and critic of our society, yes, we need more like him and I enjoyed listening to his takes on certain matters and issues, but musically?


Not ragging on the guy, but I seriously do want to know more about him musically from a fan's perspective. Yes, I can go to Wikipedia for a start on info, but maybe someone in here can articulately break him down for me.


Thanks! :)





... The next guy I am going to ask about is Jimmy Buffet. Why -- WHY -- does this man command a following?

[El_hefe]

One of my favorite quotes about music:

Interviewer: "Frank, do you think jazz is dead?"
FZ: "No....but it's starting to smell funny."

To a 14-15 year old who heard the album "Freak Out!" when it was first released was like traveling to a new country that you never knew existed.

[El Nino]

Regarding his Genius... The proof is in the pudding. Just listen to a few of his 50+ albums

[Realgirls4me]

Regarding his Genius... The proof is in the pudding. Just listen to a few of his 50+ albums

How prolific he was doesn't answer my question. Again, what did he add, or how did he revamp the topography of music enough to be labeled "Genius" by some in here?

I think it's a simple question.

[Oli]

How prolific he was doesn't answer my question. Again, what did he add, or how did he revamp the topography of music enough to be labeled "Genius" by some in here?

I think it's a simple question.

It's not a simple question. It's like asking 'How was Van Gogh a genius?' or 'Explain a Dali painting?'. It is very difficult to 'explain' genius, but easy to recognize that when musical innovation, social satire, caustic wit and production excellence are combined, they add up to something greater than your run of the mill musician.

[El Nino]

The best way I guess I could explain his awesomeness is by pointing out the fact that he emulated almost every kind or genre of music, in his own. The style of Frank Zappa knew no bounds and had no constraints. This style displays a vast undersanding of music and culture, that permeated the whole spectrum of music itself. He had a big mind with big ideas and succeeded in rendering them. That's really the best I can offer you, is this sufficient enough?

[Nowhere]

How prolific he was doesn't answer my question. Again, what did he add, or how did he revamp the topography of music enough to be labeled "Genius" by some in here?

I think it's a simple question.

It's not a simple question. It's like asking 'How was Van Gogh a genius?' or 'Explain a Dali painting?'. It is very difficult to 'explain' genius, but easy to recognize that when musical innovation, social satire, caustic wit and production excellence are combined, they add up to something greater than your run of the mill musician.

You really aren't saying anything to that other than "I like his stuff."

I'm not terribly young, but I heard zero influence of him on others (other than his kids) ever referenced in an interview. Hell, I don't think I heard a single song of his ever on the radio. Now, I know that's not justification of him being not a genius, but the few times I went out and had to dig up his old stuff it was just isoteric and sort of crude.

Maybe it's just a generational thing. I imagine he would have come off a genius if you were going to High School in 1975 juxasposing him to, say, Aerosmith, but I never felt he was THAT great. Even the satire you mention, I can't relate to since it was, for the most part in the context of before I was born. Intelligent? Sure. But, too caught up in trying to be different than actually making great music to make things that blew my mind.

[Tomfurbs]

Zappa was trez cool...

The good cap'n Beafheart kicked him in the nuts when it came to wierd musical genius though.

Good 'tash wearers, the both of them

[TrueBeauty TS]

I'm not terribly young, but I heard zero influence of him on others (other than his kids) ever referenced in an interview. Hell, I don't think I heard a single song of his ever on the radio. Now, I know that's not justification of him being not a genius, but the few times I went out and had to dig up his old stuff it was just isoteric and sort of crude.




You've never heard "Valley Girl"? :shock:


People (not saying you) sometimes confuse POPULAR with QUALITY. You probably hear Britney Spears on the radio a lot more than J.S. Bach, but I would wager that Bach was more of a genius than Britney.




.

[MDinMD]

Yes, I consider Frank to have been a musical genius. That being said, I was never a fan of his.

[chefmike]

I saw both Zappa and Capt. Beefheart live back in the day. I enjoyed both shows. Zappa was a great musician with a great mind, but his concert was as long-winded as a bad Dead show, unless you happened to be tripping (I wasn't)... I myself have only enjoyed listening to Zappa in small doses. I consider him no more(perhaps less) of a genius than musicians such as John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Bob Dylan, Pete Townsend, Jerry Garcia, or Jimi Hendrix(among others.)

[El Nino]

Nice post Chefmike

[funkyone]

Frank was an absolute musical genius. He would hear music, or the potential for music, in anything that made a sound, like the little toy police car in the Baby Snakes film. When he was confined to his home as cancer was overtaking him, musicians would make the pilgrimmage to see him, and would do anything imaginable with their instruments to make sounds Frank might record, like playing an expensive horn into a coffee percolator half filled with water.

Frank explored many different musical genres, as a player, composer, and band or orchestra leader. He was quite proficient with all. His musical compositions had a complexity and beauty that could only be reproduced by the most talented and able of musicians. Mozart wrote music like that centuries before Frank.

It is a testament to Frank, and his fans, that the one or two posters that seem to be lacking conceptual continuity are not outright flamed here in this thread. Instead, Frank's fans are taking the time to explain what was so great about Frank.

It is true that Zappa's music is a bit of an acquired taste, and not something that one would hear and like because it may sound catchy.

Now if you please, I got three beers and a fistful of downs...

[Realgirls4me]

Frank was an absolute musical genius. He would hear music, or the potential for music, in anything that made a sound, like the little toy police car in the Baby Snakes film. When he was confined to his home as cancer was overtaking him, musicians would make the pilgrimmage to see him, and would do anything imaginable with their instruments to make sounds Frank might record, like playing an expensive horn into a coffee percolator half filled with water.

Frank explored many different musical genres, as a player, composer, and band or orchestra leader. He was quite proficient with all. His musical compositions had a complexity and beauty that could only be reproduced by the most talented and able of musicians. Mozart wrote music like that centuries before Frank.

It is a testament to Frank, and his fans, that the one or two posters that seem to be lacking conceptual continuity are not outright flamed here in this thread. Instead, Frank's fans are taking the time to explain what was so great about Frank.

It is true that Zappa's music is a bit of an acquired taste, and not something that one would hear and like because it may sound catchy.

Now if you please, I got three beers and a fistful of downs...

I simply want an answer to what I thought was a fair question from a non-fan, which I've yet to receive, mind you.

If one wants to say that a certain guitar player was a genius as a guitar player, I could accept that, but when you call someone a "musical genius", as a person who is NOT a musician and unfamiliar with his contributions, I simply want to know why or how you label him as such. I guess I'm looking for some kind of empirical evidence on a objective and NOT subjective level. Make sense?

One could label Dylan, McCartney and Lennon, or Sly Stone, etc., as genius for not just their contributions to a particular genre, but how they completely revamped and changed music in some profound way, and continue to inspire artists today. They weren't just performers, but came in and rewrote the way the game is forever played. Your mention about his art being an "acquired taste" suggests that maybe it's a question that can't be answered. His genius is highly subjective, in other words.

My question wasn't to suggest anything about the behavior of Zappa's fans to a fair question, and do all of Zappa's fans speak for all the others? How could you connect the two? Hello?

[tskisser]

As a long time fan of Frank Zappa I will not do him the diservice of calling him a genius, a label that he himself did not want put on him. He was and will always be one hell of a composer, writer of incredible lyrics and second to few as a guitar player. As to the question of influence the list would be to long and varied to really go into here.... but there are many bands and players you listen to everyday that either played in his bands or listened to his music while formulating their own style... to name just a few you could start with Lowell George and Roy Estrada who went on to form Little Feat. Then you might remember Terry Bozzio an incredible drummer who was a founder of Missing Persons then you could move on to jazz where you would see that George Duke keyboard player on many of yours and my favorite Zappa tunes went on to play with jazz fusion greats Billy Cobham and Stanley Clark not forgetting that Jean Luc Ponty and Sugar Cane Harris played violin in his bands the list goes on and on Steve Vie, Adrian Belew (King Crimson ) the musicians that played in Frank Zappas bands cover the spectrum of music past and present and his influence will out live all of us on this board more than likely

[Realgirls4me]

Thanks, tskisser. Your type of response has been the type I've been looking for.

Maybe it's how I asked? :roll:

[Ecstatic]

Not really how you asked, Realgirls4me, but how you listened: art IS subjective, by it very nature. What some find incredibly subline (like the throat singers of Tuva or Tibetan monks who can reproduce 3 separate notes simultaneously and sustained), others may find terribly off-putting. Many people can't stand jazz or at least any jazz created after 1945, yet this does not diminish the musical genius of Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Thelonious Monk, Charles Mingus, or Ornette Coleman. Jimi Hendrix is often (and rightly) cited as one of rock's true geniuses, yet he himself grew tired of the feedback-driven noise that the recording company was ever pushing him to create and wanted to get back to his blues and jazz roots (he had recording sessions planned with Miles Davis, Rahsaan Roland Kirk, and Gil Evans shortly before he died that might have changed the musical landscape yet again).

It's like that with Zappa. As the Zappa fans have stated above, his music is incredibly rich and complex. He had studied and mastered the 12-tone scale before founding the Mothers of Invention (see Arnold Schoenberg, who developed the most influential version of the dodecaphonic (also known as twelve-tone) method of composition, and whose students founded the so-called Second Viennese School). His musical range ran from choral work to symphonic and tone poems, country and western to blues, rock and roll to jazz. More great rock musicians of the 60s, 70s and 80s played with him than with any other rock band leader with the possible exception of John Mayall.

Few rock composers have written bonafide classical works (exceptions include McCartney, who is brilliant when he wants to be, and Robert Fripp among few others). As a guitarist, he stands firmly in the first ranks, overshadowed only by Hendrix, Coryell, and the like.

All of this, and more, amounts to genius, though as tskisser says, Frank did not like that word applied to himself.

[Alan]

Well put Ecstatic.