WTF Was Whoopi Thinking?

[chefmike]

Whoopi Goldberg on dogfighting: Only good for ratings
Mike Lupica
nydailynews

Whoopi Goldberg, whose career hasn't exactly been a rocket to the moon since she won her Academy Award for "Ghost," made her debut on "The View" yesterday, and within about 15 minutes a smart woman wasn't just defending Michael Vick, but making you miss Rosie O'Donnell the way the Yankees will miss Derek Jeter someday.

"There are certain things that are indicative to certain parts of the country," Goldberg said of dogfighting.

Then she said that where Vick comes from in the South - suddenly making Newport News, Va., sound like the setting for "Deliverance" - dogfighting isn't that unusual. Of course it's not. That's why we're constantly being bombarded by stories about people raised where Vick was raised doing what he did, taking the kind of fall he just took, occasionally even blowing $100 million deals in the process.

Who knows. Maybe Goldberg is under the impression that before Vick gave the sport such a bad name by drowning and electrocuting underperforming dogs, we might have been on our way to professional dogfighting leagues, fantasy dogfighting, maybe even some kind of dogfighting Super Bowl!

Goldberg also said that she thought it interesting how long it took Vick to realize he was up against serious charges.

"It seemed like a light went off in his head when he realized this was something that the entire country didn't appreciate," she said.

You think?

Maybe the light for Goldberg will go off sooner, even if she is getting exactly what she wants today, which is plenty of attention, here and everywhere else. One wire service story about Goldberg's comments said that she had "served notice that she won't shy away from controversy." This isn't a controversy. This just sounded like another call to sports-talk in the middle of the night.

Maybe Whoopi Goldberg has read the indictment against Vick, Quanis Phillips, Purnell Peace, Tony Taylor. If she hasn't, here are some good talking points for today's show, from Criminal Indictment No. 3:07CR 274:


"In or about April 2007, Peace, Phillips and Vick executed approximately eight dogs that did not perform well in 'testing' sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road by various methods, including hanging, drowning and slamming at least one dog's body to the ground.

On or about April 25, 2007, Peace, Phillips and Vick possessed various items associated with continued operation of the dogfighting operation at 1915 Moonlight Road, including ... a "rape stand," a device in which a female dog who is too aggressive to submit to males for breeding is strapped down with her head held in place by a restraint; a "break" or "parting" stick used to pry open fighting dogs' mouths during fights ..."
When Christian Red of the Daily News went down to Virginia last week to report on the Vick story, he ended up at the Hanover County (Va.) Animal Control facility and saw 11 dogs seized from Vick's property with visible scars all over their bodies.

If this is something common to the region and common to the state, even Whoopi Goldberg, now an instant television expert on Vick and on dogfighting and the state of Virginia, would have to admit that the government is probably going to have to hire more people.

Whoopi Goldberg is allowed to defend whomever she wants in her new gig. She was hired to give her opinions. But come on. This sort of treatment of animals isn't "indicative" of any particular region. Just of a bunch of young guys who thought they could act like bums and get away with it. And, oh, by the way, it is a hideous treatment of animals about which Vick lied to NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, Falcons owner Arthur Blank.

And to us.

In July Vick stood on the courthouse steps and had his lawyer Billy Martin - a lawyer now representing another poor, misunderstood soul, outgoing (outgoing in all ways) Idaho Sen. Larry Craig - read a statement that told us that Vick had pleaded innocent to the charges against him and would immediately commence clearing his name. Then his pals at the Bad Newz Kennels rolled on Vick faster than he used to roll to his left and right and he was back in court pleading guilty, right before he made a long-overdue move toward the Lord.

In December he will be sentenced to what is expected to be at least a year in jail, perhaps more than that. And for the last time, this time for Whoopi Goldberg: The South didn't do this to Vick, having money didn't do this to him, being African-American didn't do this to him. Vick financed dogfighting and gambling on dogfighting, signed off on torturing and killing dogs. When you get caught doing that you go to jail.

Making this about geography is just another bubble-headed way for people to change the subject, make this about something other than torturing and killing dogs and calling it sport.

Whatever her motives, Goldberg gets the headlines she wants today, gets the attention that all actresses need, gets people to watch her show the day after a "controversy" like this the way Rosie did when she'd take out after somebody like Donald Trump and the headlines would go for days.

And look on the bright side. Even if things don't work out for Whoopi with Barbara Walters:

All they do to underperforming talk show hosts is cancel them.

[beatmaker]

I agree with some of what Whoopi has said. I went to the Newport News area a few times in college, since my university was located in the Hampton Roads area (Virginia Beach, Norfolk, Hampton, Portsmouth, Suffolk and Newport News). Newport News has the most poverty and jobless out of them all. I used to get depressed driving thru that place. People just hanging around, looking hopeless, no jobs or real industry there. I did have a homeboy that knew an older dude (like 25-26) that got married and bought a house there and I do remember him saying they fight pitbulls out there. Unfortunately, when you live in a boring, wasteland like Newport News, engaging in stupidity for the sake of fun and excitement is bound to happen. Furthermore, Vick trying to stay connected to people he grew up with versus "going Hollywood" or "getting brand new" as we call it in the inner city, didn't curb his or his friends behavior and now he is paying the piper big time.

My only problem with this case, is not the underlying legalities of it, as dogfighting is a crime, you did it, now you go to jail. It's this lynch mob mentality that has manisfested to essentially bury Michael Vick alive. To my knowledge many of the dogs who were killed, were extremely mangled up from losing their fights, not that it makes it right. However, we do and did live in a society were people regularly shot racehorses who turned up lame or became old. Nobody says shyt. Vice President Dick Cheney can go into the woods with a high powered rifle and shoot innocent deers all day and no one says shyt. The only grilling he got, was mistakingly blasting his friend while trying to kill a deer. I don't see how that's humane. You blast the deer, watch the life seep out of it's body, throw it in the back of your pickup truck, so you can have the head chopped off and stuffed to hang over your mantle. Just because it's legal, doesn't that make it less humane. PETA is full of shyt! The same people calling Michael Vick an animal, take their children to the circuses like Barnum and Bailey, who are routinely cited for animal abuses, but no one is threatening to boycott them or investigate their operations. Former employees have spoke on how badly the animals are treated. Reminds me of something Chris Rock said in his last stand up "It seems only white people can profit from pain and misery". They can sell alcohol and cigarettes, but lock some poor black kid up in the ghetto for selling a nickel bag for 5 years. Vick killed a few dogs, but any slaughterhouse in America can kill hundreds of animals weekly and it's fine, because we like meat and the establishment makes money from it. Depending on the facility, some slaughtering techniques are less than humane.

While what Vick did deserves punishment, I refuse to join the lynch mob in this society. After going into some of the forums and message boards like AOL, the level of racial hatred is astounding. You would think it was stormfront dot.org or something. I commend Whoopi for having the cajones to take an unpopular position, especially being a black women and Vick being a black man. Many black celebrities are too scared of what white folks might say, to have a spine to say anything that might not sit right with the popular white consensus. If a white women like Rosie would have said it, it wouldn't be a big deal. The assumed implication is, Whoopi is defending another black person's indefensible behavior. However, I see white people even Mr. Personal Responsibility, Bill O'Reilly defending Lindsay Lohan all the time. Oh, she comes from a dysfunctional family and her father is a pyscho. Oh, she is young, rich and has no guidance from her family and on and on! While, that may very well be true, this empathetic thinking doesn't seem to resonate when the offender is a minority. If you don't believe me google the case about the "Barbie Bandits". The D.A is trying to throw the book at the two black guys who were involved in the bank robberies with them, but charge the two, blonde white women with lightweight B.S, so they have very little time to serve. Let's not get into the Jena 6 case and how the forums in CNN or AOL have turned into a Klansmen meeting. This case is about some white kid starting a fight by hurling racial epithets at some black kids after three nooses were hung from the "Whites Only" tree, the white kid got his ass kicked and one of the black kids whose 17 years old is facing 20 years and the other five are facing 15-17 years in prison. Mind you the boy had some minor bruises and went to some school function later that night. This is not 1907, but 2007. The deep south is still the deep south! For more info info check out:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/10/1413220

Whether I agree with everything Whoopi has said, or even the comment made by NY Knicks point guard Stephon Marbury two weeks ago, I give them kudos for having a spine and speaking their minds and not cowering in the corner like some well paid servant, scared of their own shadows.

[RangeHova]

I can't really make it a racial issue but I agree that if you go online and see what a lot of white have said about this case you will see that many others are putting race at the fore front.

I can however see what Whoopi meant. She is not saying that what he did was not wrong, that it wasn't illegal, or even that it wasn't dumb. She is just shedding some light on the wrong, illegal, and domb thing that Vick did.

If it really and truly is something that has been accepted in that community then that needs to be examined. For years police departments across the south and even the midwest have allowed this stuff to go on with little to no consequences. Maybe some aren't aware of the fact but dogfighting has been going on, it has been accepted (even while being underground) in many communities.

There were certain parks in my midwest city where it was well known that people would have dog fights.

[blckhaze]

I dont see the community he was raised in being the major reason. Growing up in the Heart of the Bronx, ive seen dogs being trained for and being use din dog fights. Maybe not on a regular basis liek Vicks operation, but im sure theyre is something like this here in NYC.

[Kabuki]

I agree with some of what Whoopi has said. I went to the Newport News area a few times in college, since my university was located in the Hampton Roads area (Virginia Beach, Norfolk, Hampton, Portsmouth, Suffolk and Newport News). Newport News has the most poverty and jobless out of them all. I used to get depressed driving thru that place. People just hanging around, looking hopeless, no jobs or real industry there. I did have a homeboy that knew an older dude (like 25-26) that got married and bought a house there and I do remember him saying they fight pitbulls out there. Unfortunately, when you live in a boring, wasteland like Newport News, engaging in stupidity for the sake of fun and excitement is bound to happen. Furthermore, Vick trying to stay connected to people he grew up with versus "going Hollywood" or "getting brand new" as we call it in the inner city, didn't curb his or his friends behavior and now he is paying the piper big time.

I honestly need to correct you here. I need to have a talk with Whoopi as well. The Hampton Roads area is not really the South. Virginia is confused. We're right in between the North and the South, so you have pockets of areas that are country, and you have city areas. Northern Virginia, Richmond and the Hampton Roads area is the only areas I could deal with.

I live in Newport News, and you obviously didn't venture out far. Vick is from Downtown Newport News. This portion of the city is full of poverty, and the things you described. I know all about the area. I've lived in the area. I have family still in the area. I can understand Vick more than most people on this forum. I've been around his family, just like I've been around Allen Iverson's family. If you make it out Downtown Newport News aka Badnews, it's best to avoid those streets. Surround yourself with the right people. I'm educated, and have relatives I know I need to avoid.

Downtown Newport News is only a portion of Newport News. I have to emphasize that. Newport News is a military city. You have Fort Eustis on the other end of Newport News, and the neighboring city of Hampton is the location of Langley Air Force base. All of the cities lead to Norfolk, Va, where you have the Navy base. So, please get your facts straight. Your poverty facts are wrong. You can google that info yourself. Newport News is also home of Northrop Grumman. This shipyard builds half your naval fleet. Submarines and air craft carriers. Get your facts straight about our industry. Many people come here to retire. Especially ex-military. I'm not a spokesperson for the area, but your representation of the area is wrong. I was born and raised in Newport News.

As for dog fighting in the area, I love how Vick's case makes people believe that there's this large network of dog fights in the area. I really need to send all these people to North and South Carolina. If you're going to talk about something, get your facts straight.

[Solitary Brother]

Im very surprised at Whoopi........
My coworkers quized me on this today.......
What could I say?
I like Whoopi though.......

[chefmike]

chefmike, why do you keep copying & pasting lengthy news articles that the majority of us lose interest with half way through, and take up valuable HA badwidth :?:


I'm sorry, dipshit. Did I break your concentration? I guess that you were hoping to see Whoopi's cock when you read this thread...tough shit...now shut yer cock-holster already, Francis.

[chefmike]

I agree with some of what Whoopi has said. I went to the Newport News area a few times in college, since my university was located in the Hampton Roads area (Virginia Beach, Norfolk, Hampton, Portsmouth, Suffolk and Newport News). Newport News has the most poverty and jobless out of them all. I used to get depressed driving thru that place. People just hanging around, looking hopeless, no jobs or real industry there. I did have a homeboy that knew an older dude (like 25-26) that got married and bought a house there and I do remember him saying they fight pitbulls out there. Unfortunately, when you live in a boring, wasteland like Newport News, engaging in stupidity for the sake of fun and excitement is bound to happen. Furthermore, Vick trying to stay connected to people he grew up with versus "going Hollywood" or "getting brand new" as we call it in the inner city, didn't curb his or his friends behavior and now he is paying the piper big time.

I honestly need to correct you here. I need to have a talk with Whoopi as well. The Hampton Roads area is not really the South. Virginia is confused. We're right in between the North and the South, so you have pockets of areas that are country, and you have city areas. Northern Virginia, Richmond and the Hampton Roads area is the only areas I could deal with.

I live in Newport News, and you obviously didn't venture out far. Vick is from Downtown Newport News. This portion of the city is full of poverty, and the things you described. I know all about the area. I've lived in the area. I have family still in the area. I can understand Vick more than most people on this forum. I've been around his family, just like I've been around Allen Iverson's family. If you make it out Downtown Newport News aka Badnews, it's best to avoid those streets. Surround yourself with the right people. I'm educated, and have relatives I know I need to avoid.

Downtown Newport News is only a portion of Newport News. I have to emphasize that. Newport News is a military city. You have Fort Eustis on the other end of Newport News, and the neighboring city of Hampton is the location of Langley Air Force base. All of the cities lead to Norfolk, Va, where you have the Navy base. So, please get your facts straight. Your poverty facts are wrong. You can google that info yourself. Newport News is also home of Northrop Grumman. This shipyard builds half your naval fleet. Submarines and air craft carriers. Get your facts straight about our industry. Many people come here to retire. Especially ex-military. I'm not a spokesperson for the area, but your representation of the area is wrong. I was born and raised in Newport News.

As for dog fighting in the area, I love how Vick's case makes people believe that there's this large network of dog fights in the area. I really need to send all these people to North and South Carolina. If you're going to talk about something, get your facts straight.

Exactly. I lived in Virginia Beach for many years, and I know the Tidewater area. Whoopi calling Newport News the "Deep South" cracked me up.

[ezed]

Hey, chefmike, she's down like you say. What better way to make a slash to make a totally outlandish defense of Michael Vick. It's a rating ploy. She's learning the broadcast media game. If you want attention, you take the path less taken.

"Wake UP with Whoopi!!!" didn't work. Now look, we're talking about her.

She's become a media whore! Remember "The Running Man". We're going there fast.

The guy below is dead and unremembered.

[Solitary Brother]

I agree with some of what Whoopi has said. I went to the Newport News area a few times in college, since my university was located in the Hampton Roads area (Virginia Beach, Norfolk, Hampton, Portsmouth, Suffolk and Newport News). Newport News has the most poverty and jobless out of them all. I used to get depressed driving thru that place. People just hanging around, looking hopeless, no jobs or real industry there. I did have a homeboy that knew an older dude (like 25-26) that got married and bought a house there and I do remember him saying they fight pitbulls out there. Unfortunately, when you live in a boring, wasteland like Newport News, engaging in stupidity for the sake of fun and excitement is bound to happen. Furthermore, Vick trying to stay connected to people he grew up with versus "going Hollywood" or "getting brand new" as we call it in the inner city, didn't curb his or his friends behavior and now he is paying the piper big time.

I honestly need to correct you here. I need to have a talk with Whoopi as well. The Hampton Roads area is not really the South. Virginia is confused. We're right in between the North and the South, so you have pockets of areas that are country, and you have city areas. Northern Virginia, Richmond and the Hampton Roads area is the only areas I could deal with.

I live in Newport News, and you obviously didn't venture out far. Vick is from Downtown Newport News. This portion of the city is full of poverty, and the things you described. I know all about the area. I've lived in the area. I have family still in the area. I can understand Vick more than most people on this forum. I've been around his family, just like I've been around Allen Iverson's family. If you make it out Downtown Newport News aka Badnews, it's best to avoid those streets. Surround yourself with the right people. I'm educated, and have relatives I know I need to avoid.

Downtown Newport News is only a portion of Newport News. I have to emphasize that. Newport News is a military city. You have Fort Eustis on the other end of Newport News, and the neighboring city of Hampton is the location of Langley Air Force base. All of the cities lead to Norfolk, Va, where you have the Navy base. So, please get your facts straight. Your poverty facts are wrong. You can google that info yourself. Newport News is also home of Northrop Grumman. This shipyard builds half your naval fleet. Submarines and air craft carriers. Get your facts straight about our industry. Many people come here to retire. Especially ex-military. I'm not a spokesperson for the area, but your representation of the area is wrong. I was born and raised in Newport News.

As for dog fighting in the area, I love how Vick's case makes people believe that there's this large network of dog fights in the area. I really need to send all these people to North and South Carolina. If you're going to talk about something, get your facts straight.

Exactly. I lived in Virginia Beach for many years, and I know the Tidewater area. Whoopi calling Newport News the "Deep South" cracked me up.

My family from my moms side lives in Newport News right now and I lived there for 7 years in the ABSOLUTE worst projects.
Our next door neighbors son died in front of our door after being shot after a craps game argument......We saw the whole thing.....

Some people that steal go door to door trying to sell you shit.......

In the projects CONTRARY to some silly notion the media has there is NO AC and no dryers.........people steal other peoples underwear.....no lie.

The only white people I use to see were thoses BRAVE addicted souls who would come to buy drugs.
Most people down there ONLY saw white people on tv NOT in real life.....no bullshit.Its like that in Miami too........my fathers side of the family.........

I have many stories from my time there.

By the way.......I use to live on 22nd street in the project near a small shopping center with a grocery store and across the street from that a barber shop and adjacent to that was a record store.
When I was there the Black Muslims were very prominent in the community

And I also lived in a place called "the bottom"..........Vicks upbringing could NOT have been worse than mine.

Regards

[Kabuki]

My family from my moms side lives in Newport News right now and I lived there for 7 years in the ABSOLUTE worst projects.
Our next door neighbors son died in front of our door after being shot after a craps game argument......We saw the whole thing.....

Some people that steal go door to door trying to sell you shit.......

In the projects CONTRARY to some silly notion the media has there is NO AC and no dryers.........people steal other peoples underwear.....no lie.

The only white people I use to see were thoses BRAVE addicted souls who would come to buy drugs.
Most people down there ONLY saw white people on tv NOT in real life.....no bullshit.Its like that in Miami too........my fathers side of the family.........

I have many stories from my time there.

By the way.......I use to live on 22nd street in the project near a small shopping center with a grocery store and across the street from that a barber shop and adjacent to that was a record store.
When I was there the Black Muslims were very prominent in the community

And I also lived in a place called "the bottom"..........Vicks upbringing could NOT have been worse than mine.

Regards

I would have to disagree with the "Most people down there ONLY saw white people on tv NOT in real life" statement. You have the shipyard near the area, and the businesses near Lincoln Park. Or how about around the court house area? People do venture out of the area. You can't say that there weren't white people at the mall either. Newmarket North. The Coliseum mall in neighboring Hampton. I can still remember how the Denbigh area of Newport News wasn't diverse. Before the black migration. There was usually only a couple of black people in my classes in Denbigh. During my elementary school years. The East End aka Downtown Newport News use to be a white area. There's still a small pocket of white people in there. Holding on to some decent property. That's a secret though:P I stumbled across their houses one day.

I've walked all through those streets. I actually lived in the area around Doris Miller. I can still remember when Peddlers village was the hang out spot. White guys from other areas of Newport News would come there for cheap knock offs, and mix tapes. Sold by little Korean women of course. I know exactly where you lived.

As for "NO AC", I didn't know many people without AC. That was one of the first things you purchased. You bought that window unit from Sears or somewhere. I will say that you usually only had one window unit though. I use to sweat my ass off on the second floor of our apartment. Even with the industrial fan....lol NY people are wild. It's hotter up there, but I knew plenty of people without AC.

I do know that Vick didn't have an easy upbringing. I could back it up with facts. What he did was wrong, but I swear that this nation loves to crucify black people. Where are the mobs of people when corporation heads steal pensions from their employees?

[Quinn]

My two cents: Assertions that Vick’s cultural background and resulting socialization serve as any sort of mitigating factor for his behavior – and that is what is indirectly being argued by Whoopi, et al. – are nothing short of apologist tripe. I don’t give a fuck what his background is; he’s solely responsible for how he chooses to allow it to affect his behavior.

Bottom line: Whoopi is an ignorant tool grasping at straws to defend a miserable cretin who wants mercy after having shown no such capacity himself. Seriously, look at the indictment. The methods of execution employed were not the murderously efficient actions of a man simply interested in terminating animals that were underperforming (shots to the head are more or less customary). Rather, they were the actions of a man seeking to inflict a variety of more prolonged, torturous deaths.

-Quinn

[RangeHova]

Saying that you understand someone's ignorant actions based on thier fucked up background is not at all the same as defending them.

I have a boss tyhat is highly educated and very wealthy. Yet, he still does things that show his rural Georgia background (that includes some illegal things).

I have more understanding for him doing those things than someone that doesn't come from that background. That is not the same as me saying that I defend him or that he has a right to do those things. If he gets busted, his ass needs to be treated the same way that I would be treated.

[Realgirls4me]

My two cents: Assertions that Vick’s cultural background and resulting socialization serve as any sort of mitigating factor for his behavior – and that is what is indirectly being argued by Whoopi, et al. – are nothing short of apologist tripe. I don’t give a fuck what his background is; he’s solely responsible for how he chooses to allow it to affect his behavior.
-Quinn

I disagree, Quinn. I think Vick's case demonstrates a classic case of nature and nurture coming together in the worst way to brew up the "perfect storm" of a maladjusted, detached, unfeeling "human being". One has to obviously be slightly demented to do the horrific crimes he is accused of, and that is all tied to his upbringing and the "culture" he hailed from. ...No one, barring a few misguided kooks, is saying we should show mercy for him, or let him off for his crimes, but someone such as him is not operating with a full deck -- far from it. I think you are giving Vick way too much credit in the smarts department. All this man has is a history with his thuggish culture and an ability to play football. Nothing else; not even the ability to feel.

... Would you feel this way if, say, someone mildly retarded committed a similar crime?

[Felicia Katt]

Maybe the point people should be making is that animal cruelty for sport is animal cruelty for sport, whether its done as part of some thuggish, macho ritual, or more efficiently, behind some thin civilized veneer. Thousands of greyhounds are killed each year, when they don't win races and it's estimated that each year roughly 800 North American thoroughbreds die from or are put to death as a result of injuries sustained while racing with more being dispatched when they are no longer competitive or fit for breeding. A race horse who is in the National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame. and ranked in the Top 100 American thoroughbred champions of the 20th century ended up as dogfood.

Perhaps some of the uproar and outrage Vick is rightfully enduring would be better directed at other arena's where merely for something to gamble on, animals are made to compete with each other. sometimes to their deaths.

Just a thought

FK

[hwbs]

ill sum it up real quick..ratings..she wants u to tune into the view...

[Quinn]

My two cents: Assertions that Vick’s cultural background and resulting socialization serve as any sort of mitigating factor for his behavior – and that is what is indirectly being argued by Whoopi, et al. – are nothing short of apologist tripe. I don’t give a fuck what his background is; he’s solely responsible for how he chooses to allow it to affect his behavior.
-Quinn

I disagree, Quinn. I think Vick's case demonstrates a classic case of nature and nurture coming together in the worst way to brew up the "perfect storm" of a maladjusted, detached, unfeeling "human being". One has to obviously be slightly demented to do the horrific crimes he is accused of, and that is all tied to his upbringing and the "culture" he hailed from. ...No one, barring a few misguided kooks, is saying we should show mercy for him, or let him off for his crimes, but someone such as him is not operating with a full deck -- far from it. I think you are giving Vick way too much credit in the smarts department. All this man has is a history with his thuggish culture and an ability to play football. Nothing else; not even the ability to feel.

... Would you feel this way if, say, someone mildly retarded committed a similar crime?

Respectfully, I couldn’t disagree with you more. To say that Vick’s crimes “are tied to his upbringing and the ‘culture’ he hailed from” is to ascribe to him the free will of a robot. He’s not a mindless automaton, and this isn’t about intelligence. It is entirely about free will and the conscious decisions that follow. From my perspective, one’s background is never an excuse – and I’m saying that as someone who has a criminal record and was raised in circumstances that were brutal, to put it mildly.

-Quinn

[Legend]

She wants to be controversial like odonnell.I can guarantee this isn't going to be the only fucked up thing she says,she is only gonna say that kind of stuff for ratings,people are gonna see right through it.

[biguy4tvtscd]

"There are certain things that are indicative to certain parts of the country,"

Gee Whoopi, so was Slavery and Segregation, are you going to defend those next?


The only reason I think race is being brought into this debate, is because it only seems to be black people defending Vick.

Based on some articles I have read, along with a heart wrenching episode of "Real Sports" on HBO, there is absolutely no truth to the sentiment that dog fighting is a "black thing"
As many (if not more) whites are heavily involved with this travesty. Clearly, those involved with dog fighting come in all colors and creeds.

However, it sure does seem that the only people willing and/or wanting to jump to Vicks defense are fellow black athletes (Clinton Portis), black celebrities (Whoopi Goldberg), and the NAACP.

I don't mean in an "innocent until proven guilty" manner either, it's more of a "But some think it's a legitimate sport" kind of defense. Totally mind-boggling.

[Realgirls4me]

My two cents: Assertions that Vick’s cultural background and resulting socialization serve as any sort of mitigating factor for his behavior – and that is what is indirectly being argued by Whoopi, et al. – are nothing short of apologist tripe. I don’t give a fuck what his background is; he’s solely responsible for how he chooses to allow it to affect his behavior.
-Quinn

I disagree, Quinn. I think Vick's case demonstrates a classic case of nature and nurture coming together in the worst way to brew up the "perfect storm" of a maladjusted, detached, unfeeling "human being". One has to obviously be slightly demented to do the horrific crimes he is accused of, and that is all tied to his upbringing and the "culture" he hailed from. ...No one, barring a few misguided kooks, is saying we should show mercy for him, or let him off for his crimes, but someone such as him is not operating with a full deck -- far from it. I think you are giving Vick way too much credit in the smarts department. All this man has is a history with his thuggish culture and an ability to play football. Nothing else; not even the ability to feel.

... Would you feel this way if, say, someone mildly retarded committed a similar crime?

Respectfully, I couldn’t disagree with you more. To say that Vick’s crimes “are tied to his upbringing and the ‘culture’ he hailed from” is to ascribe to him the free will of a robot. He’s not a mindless automaton, and this isn’t about intelligence. It is entirely about free will and the conscious decisions that follow. From my perspective, one’s background is never an excuse – and I’m saying that as someone who has a criminal record and was raised in circumstances that were brutal, to put it mildly.

-Quinn

Quinn: I think you are completely -- COMPLETELY -- missing the point I'm attempting to get at. Maybe I am simply just not explaining it well. I AM NOT making excuses for dysfunctional killers such as Vick, but trying to highlight the dearth and corrupted choices Vick's free will has access to. In a sense, he is a automaton, limited to a highly skewed and twisted set of ideas and conscientiousness. If one's background cannot be used as a link to such behavior, then why is the prison population cohort so much alike in terms of the upbringing most had? How many in prison today hail from households of professionals (CEOs, Doctors, Attorneys, etc)? Conversely, it obviously works the other way also. If a prisoner's father abused women, that prisoner most likely abused women. There's a definite link.

And on the Whoopi comment, she was not agreeing with what Vick did. She was simply saying that it is part of a culture, or more apt, subculture. She mentioned how Chinese view cats to make her point. Does it not turn your stomach to even think of eating a cat? She also was NOT defending or excusing Vick's actions.