Are sex change operations justified?

[alphanumeric]

Sometimes it seems it just never ends...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6923912.stm

[Jericho]

Are sex change operations justified?

Many people who have been through sex change operations say it was the only solution to a distressing condition.

But a leading feminist campaigner claims that sex reassignment surgery is based on unscientific ideas - and could be doing more harm than good.

"I should never have had sex change surgery," Claudia MacLean, a transsexual woman told the audience at a recent debate organised by the BBC Radio 4 programme Hecklers and the Royal Society of Medicine in London.

"As a result of the surgery, I am incapable of sex and I have lived a life apart."

Claudia was speaking out in support of Julie Bindel, a radical feminist and journalist, who was trying to persuade medics and trans people that sex change surgery is unnecessary mutilation.

Threatening concept

Radical feminists have ideological reasons for opposing sex change surgery.

To them, the claim that someone can be "born into the wrong sex" is a deeply threatening concept.

Many feminists believe that the behaviours and feelings which are considered typically masculine or typically feminine are purely socially conditioned.

But if, as some in the transsexual lobby believes, the tendency to feel masculine or feminine is something innate then it follows that gender stereotypical behaviours could well be "natural" rather than as the result of social pressures and male oppression.

As a feminist, Julie Bindel therefore has a strong political motivation for her scepticism about sex change surgery.

But, her argument goes beyond ideology.

Having looked into the medical research on transsexualism, she claims there is a lack of science behind the diagnosis, no satisfactory research into the outcomes for patients and individual stories of post-operative regret.

Regret

Claudia says she was referred for surgery after a single 45 minute consultation.

"At no time did I say to that psychiatrist that I felt like a woman. In my opinion what happened to me was all about money."

She is one of a small number of trans people who have publicly expressed their regrets about having had sex change surgery.

Another is Charles Kane who, as Sam Hashimi, was the subject of a BBC documentary One Life: Make me a Man Again, televised in 2004.

This showed Sam, a transsexual woman, undergoing surgery to become a man again.

She told the BBC that her desire to become a woman had developed following a nervous breakdown.

For her, these feelings were caused by a longing to retreat into a fantasy character rather than having a crisis of gender identity.

"When I was in the psychiatric hospital there was a man on one side of me who thought he was King George and another guy on the other side who thought he was Jesus Christ. I decided I was Sam."

Others, like Miranda Ponsonby, blame post-operative discontent on society's lack of willingness to accept transsexual people.

In her forthcoming autobiography, The Making of Miranda, she describes having a strong sense from a young age that she was a female trapped in a man's body.

However, like Claudia, she says that, since her surgery, she has lived a life apart.

She claims that she is no happier now than she was before the operation.

Her advice to those contemplating sex change surgery is "Don't do it."

Stories of satisfaction

Against these stories of disappointment and regret, there are many more people who will testify publicly to their overwhelming satisfaction with sex change surgery.

But are most people who have sex change surgery satisfied or dissatisfied?

It comes as something of a surprise to learn that the medical profession does not yet know the answer to this question.

According to a review carried out by the School of Health and Related Research at Sheffield University, the poor quality of research in this area means that "little robust evidence exists" on the outcomes for patients who have sex change surgery.

Dr Kevan Wylie, a consultant in sexual medicine and the head of the UK body looking into standards of care for sex change surgery patients, admits there have been difficulties.

"The problem is that we tend to lose touch with our patients after a relatively short period of time following surgery."

Some local health authorities now refuse to fund sex change operations on the basis that there is a lack of evidence about the surgical efficacy and psychological benefits of surgery.

In the absence of more research studies, gender dysphoria specialist Dr Kevan Wylie says it is important to listen to his patients.

However, those contemplating surgery - and the health authorities which fund them - ought also to be able to get advice about the risks versus the potential benefits of such a major operation and, until further research is done, doctors are unable to give them such information.


Another one of those, "It was the wrong descision for me, so it's wrong for everybody", wieners.

[justatransgirl]

I think this is the same very vocal "anti-trans" woman who's been in the news in the past. There is a small faction of lesbian trans haters.

Jessica and I were at a Womens Day thing at the Center in Dan Diego this summer. TS's were invited. There were maybe 8 ts's out of 300 women present.

During the lunch this big fat lumberjack shirted butch lesbian spoke about why would anyone want to cut off their penis and how TS's were all men in drag, etc. And what's so sad is there was actually some applause for her.

Certainly some people who have sex changes shouldn't. It is well documented that changing one's sex is not going to magically bring happiness. In most cases life will get more difficult as income often drops, appearance is difficult and expensive to maintain as we age, etc.

But what about the TG people who would likely kill themselves if they didn't receive medical intervention?

As a "sometimes Domme," I've had any number of guys contact me with fetish desires to be hormonally or surgically feminized. To "force" them to be women. I've had two want me to arrange sex changes and "make' them do it. Fortunately I'm still somewhat sane so I try to gently explain to them the reality would not meet the fantasy and suggest some fun alternatives. But there's a lot of kooks out there and a lot more impulsive people.

In my transition I've been amazed by the number of ts girls who know virtually NOTHING about what they are doing. They have never read the SOC. They know nothing about hormones beyond the standard internet doses. They cannot read blood work. Many had never had any therapy explorations. On and on.

So while I am not a big fan of the SOC I understand why they are there and I think within reason they need to be followed to help those for whom transition or sex change is not the right path.

That said I don't feel that "requirements" should preclude an otherwise same adult from doing what they want to their body so long as it doesn't negatively impact anyone else.

If a single man has a TS fetish then I believe he should have the right to live and physically change his body to match. I'm not going to help him, but I feel he has the right.

By the same token I believe a female transsexual should be assisted to meet her needs.

Hugs,
TS Jamie

[KO47]

"When I was in the psychiatric hospital there was a man on one side of me who thought he was King George and another guy on the other side who thought he was Jesus Christ. I decided I was Sam."

:lol:

[Caleigh]

since the topic is "Are sex change operations justified?" .

Do they need to be justified?

People who feel like they need srs/grs to be happy
in their lives should be able to get them. That this
one woman (and some others) now has regrets is
her issue but for her to then generalize and decide
that it isn't right for anyone is ridiculous.

Whether governments should pay for srs/grs is a
whole other question.

[peggygee]

:popcorn

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/goya-1.jpg

[BlackAdder]

Some people are just never going to be happy with anything...I dont think its gender identity, but maybe there just fucking crazy? Okay lol...

As for the botched jobs, shes not the 1st ive heard of and is why i council against getting SRS at this time...Too much risk. I dont care how you spin it, no doctor in the world is good enough with nerves right now to mitigate the risk.

[SarahG]

Some people are just never going to be happy with anything...I dont think its gender identity, but maybe there just fucking crazy? Okay lol...

As for the botched jobs, shes not the 1st ive heard of and is why i council against getting SRS at this time...Too much risk. I dont care how you spin it, no doctor in the world is good enough with nerves right now to mitigate the risk.

There are always risks. Its by the grace of probability that we don't get randomly struck down by lightning or run over by a bus merely by leaving our homes (and by staying in our homes; having it collapse on us in our sleep).

It is, like most things, up to the person well enough to consent one way or an other, to make a judgement call just as is the case for everything else. Even the most minor surgeries can be risky, that doesn't mean we should all become christian scientists and stop using doctors/surgeons.

Edited for spelling.

[Cyclops]

this seems to be a case of only showing one side of the issue

I don't see anyone talking to any post-ops who feel good about having gone through with SRS

these people just want us to see the few negative points where there are many positive ones that greatly outweigh the ngeative

let us here from the ones who are happy with their sex change

If no-one was ever happy with SRS in the past years then it would seem to me then , that it would become unpopular and at some point would no longer be done

[peggygee]

this seems to be a case of only showing one side of the issue

I don't see anyone talking to any post-ops who feel good about having gone through with SRS

these people just want us to see the few negative points where there are many positive ones that greatly outweigh the ngeative

let us here from the ones who are happy with their sex change

If no-one was ever happy with SRS in the past years then it would seem to me then , that it would become unpopular and at some point would no longer be done


http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/996095851_l_129_small_599.jpghttp://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/icon_2075.gif

[BrendaQG]

:-( Nothing new about this.

I cosign with Justatransgirl. Getting hormones, getting most other cosmetic surgeries, etc should requier basically no psychological intervention. However SRS is a BIG deal. It cannot be reversed or undone in any way. If you are not 110% sure you need srs to be happy you should not have it. Such is why the SOC's exist, and years of psychotherapy are called for. Including years of living as female before having the surgery.

Where the problems arise is that there are so many people who complain to high heaven about the SOC's and the gatekeepers who only wan "sterotypical girls" etc. etc. :roll:

You know people who generally want to get SRS done before hormones, hairremoval, voice or anything else.

Then they trade tips on what doctors and psych's will let them bypass the SOC's. OR they just happen to luck into such a lax doctor or psych, they match certain sterotypes, and they get to easy of a pass to SRS.

We need responsible gatekeeping, just how to accomplish that I don't know.

[peggygee]

:-( Nothing new about this.

I cosign with Justatransgirl. Getting hormones, getting most other cosmetic surgeries, etc should requier basically no psychological intervention. However SRS is a BIG deal. It cannot be reversed or undone in any way. If you are not 110% sure you need srs to be happy you should not have it. Such is why the SOC's exist, and years of psychotherapy are called for. Including years of living as female before having the surgery.

Where the problems arise is that there are so many people who complain to high heaven about the SOC's and the gatekeepers who only wan "sterotypical girls" etc. etc. :roll:

You know people who generally want to get SRS done before hormones, hairremoval, voice or anything else.

Then they trade tips on what doctors and psych's will let them bypass the SOC's. OR they just happen to luck into such a lax doctor or psych, they match certain sterotypes, and they get to easy of a pass to SRS.

We need responsible gatekeeping, just how to accomplish that I don't know.

I emphatically agree that people contemplating GRS perform all
the prerequisite work prior to genital surgery. Electrolysis, HRT,
largyneal scraping, FFS, etc should all come before GRS.

While I feel that the Bejamin Standards Of Care (SoC's) are very
useful guidlines, tranwomen, and their healthcare providers
should be aware of them, the reality is that unless you are going
through a insurance company, or socialized medicine, they aren''t
always rigidly adhered to.

Today with the Internet, porous borders, international travel, and
more doctors willing to perform cosmetic procedures, there are many
ways around them.

Basically the genie is out of the bottle, and people do not want the
medical establishment playing God with their gender choices.

This shouldn't mean that we become our own doctors, and adopt
physician heal thy self' as our mantra, but more people are
becoming part of their healthcare team, and impacting their healthcare
decisions.

However, much like the adage about someone who has themself as
a lawyer, then they have a fool for a client, we need to exercise due
diligence, and be informed and educated.

[domme]

What utter rubbish.

This Claudia MacLean, should first admit that its her mistake.
The responsibility was primarily hers, since the operation was happening on her.
Ofcourse ppl responsible for counselling also have something to blame.

But tomorrow, if I am convinced htat I need an SRS, simply because I like to cross dress, and then after the SRS, I realise that this is not what I want - I would be the one to blame.

And this Julie Bindel, seems to be just a rabble monger. Extending her logic, cosmetic surgery should also be prohibited. Since, you are changing the way you were born or meant to be.

Oh, crap, she should also start ranting against ppl goign to gym. Well ppl workout in order to change their natural shape. Isn't it? Thats bad ... ppl deciding what they want - and trying to do things to become what they want.

[mbf]

There are always risks. Its by the grace of probability that we don't get randomly struck down by lightning or run over by a bus merely by leaving our homes (and by staying in our homes; having it collapse on us in our sleep).
.

statistically in the western hemisphere your own bed is the most dangerous place on earth. most people die in those

now back to the topic

[youcancallmeclaire]

In my transition I've been amazed by the number of ts girls who know virtually NOTHING about what they are doing. They have never read the SOC. They know nothing about hormones beyond the standard internet doses. They cannot read blood work. Many had never had any therapy explorations. On and on.



Not everyone can afford bloodwork and therapy. I can barely afford food.