Animosity and disdain

[satisfactiondeliverd]

I may be wrong and again I am new to this site. I think it is a great site but it seems that the is dislike between the ladies and the men who like them. Does everyone have to be put in a neat box, straight, gay, trick, sugar daddy. Can't it just be genuine.

I find GG very attractive but I find TG supersexy also. Why can't people just like what they like?

For lack of any other term I am strictly "top" don't want anything going in me. I have been with TG, CD, and GG was, as you'all say "dominant". That is just me. I don't mind touching a girls clit or dick whatever you want to call it sucked them too but don't want them in me. Love to have a girl ride and cum on my stomach so I can see her pleasure.


It just seems to me the girls have disdain for the men and the men buy and beg the women. Does that mean there can't be a real relationship between CD and TG? If a man has feelings then he shouldn't mind what people think are say when he is with his woman.

Trust me if I had an opportunity to have a relationship with Mia, Wendywilliams, Allanah, Shavonna, Felicia Katt, I can name several others. I wouldn't pass that opportunity.

Any comments?

[hillbilly]

it always seems to be me that the bad feelings are fueled by how poorly people see themselves around THIS issue.

we are as a whole in all honesty from the outside viewed as a group of freaks by most. actually way more than most. we aren't talking 50% to 49% here. say 99.999999%.

there seems to be no end to the frustration people feel. in the end this community turns on itself. eating its own so to speak. like people rioting and destroying their own communities. you know what i mean.

i know there will be a lot of posturing and saying "i feel great about myself and my love of ts'". perhaps we do but isn't it refreshing when you can yell that at the top of your lungs to the world.

but we don't it is all generally sneaky.

i truly believe there is a great deal of self loathing involved.

nobody can tell me they haven't struggled at some point with what is this all about. how did this happen? what am i? where does this fit in?

it may take years for some to find their comfort level. in the meantime they lash out in fear.

i know i know some of you consider yourselves exceptions to these things. i myself have grown comfortable with my interest over the course of 15 years or so. but in all honesty although i'm comfortable with myself its still largely kept to myself. we all know very few of us have family to share this with or what have you.

blah blah blah. i the end it would be nice if we didn't turn on each other but until the stigma is gone beyond a novelty. then that is not going to happen.

so that's the way i see it. take it or leave it. i'm so worn out by the whole dynamic that i have all but given up. :D

[satisfactiondeliverd]

You both make very valid points. Normally when someone is dating they don't walk up and say hey family or hey friends my girl is a guy or has male parts. If they ask you may choose to say or not say. What two people do should be between them. Sexy is sexy. relationships shouldn't come with degrees of like or love. If someone is cripple or parapaligic would that deter the relationship? I don't think is should not likening alternative lifestyle people to handicapped but they are different in there own way and nobody should be penalized for that. Further if some girls opened up emotionally maybe relationships could happen. Not assuming most are closed but just stating a though.

[dajuicy]

yo hillbilly...feeling your post....for im guessing, so many of us admirers, its a secret life of bees for us....its life in the closet...for every dude, like esctatic who is obviously at peace with himself....there are 100's of cats, secretly seeing escorts, or lusting over internet images and videos....and not at peace with ourselves....well, i guess i speak for myself....but, ive read enough out here by others on this road to know that im not entirely alone. many of us are obsessive and more than tormented by our situation. and many of us are fking married! .....and i feel that as a minority...us admirers....i feel that there are many more of us out here than we think.....and i think its growing in numbers. i can tell by some of the posters, both here and at other sites that many younger dudes are getting into the scene, and thankfully are seeing it with fresher, less tormented eyes...this is good. Its also good to know that there are girls out here that are together, hot, and whether top or bottom, escort or not, are not hateful, and not interested in ripping anybody off. I cant get into the long winded back and forths of a lot of these threads, but im just grateful that this place exists and occassionally can feel connected to people in this life and on this road....later.....i do fking miss mega....

[Ecstatic]

for every dude, like esctatic who is obviously at peace with himself....there are 100's of cats, secretly seeing escorts, or lusting over internet images and videos....and not at peace with ourselves....
Hey dajuicy! Thanks for the props. Yeah, I am at peace with myself, but that doesn't mean I don't secretly see escorts, I do. There are some friends I have been able to share my interest with, to one degree or another, and thankfully my loving wife is totally supportive (kiss, kiss, hug, hug), but most of my friends and family fit into that 99% (or whatever the figure is) and I keep it secret. Actually, the biggest reason I don't talk about my seeing escorts with most folks I know is not because they are TS--a lot of people in my personal life know I'm bi, so that's not really an issue--but because they would have a hard time understanding how I can love my wife and see other women on the side. I've talked about that before; it's far too complicated for me to explain here again--let alone to those people I know who wouldn't understand--so I just don't talk about it. My wife and I are totally at ease with it, so what others might or might not think is irrelevant.

One reason I am at peace with myself is that I have had the good fortune to get to know 2 or 3 of the finest escorts well over a 2-3 year period, getting to know them as friends not merely as (I hate the term) providers, plus I have made some really good contacts online with several girls on a totally non-sexual basis, again getting to know the people, and not just the objects of desire. That personal connection is the best, and something this forum (at times) fosters.

I never really went through the "Am I gay" kind of self-doubting or not being at peace with myself over my attraction to TS women because I had already gone through that more years ago than I care to admit when I discovered I was bi. Now I have little attraction to men because I find women far, far more beautiful, and TS women with that infamous "something extra" is the ultimate rush for me.

I agree that the scene seems to be improving in many ways: from Vicki winning AVN TS performer of the year to the popularity of Maury Povich TS episodes to the appearance of TS in network television shows in ever-improving representation to the undeniable sales popularity of TS porn. Granted, it's still almost entirely in the realm of fetish, freaky, shock-value entertainment and it will be a long time before that onus fades, but as anyone who was first attracted to TS back in the 70s and 80s can attest, we have come a long ways.

[satisfactiondeliverd]

You may have a point maybe a lot of interaction isn't based on getting the know the person. If it is strictly client customer relationship perhaps a lot of dialoge doesn't transpire. The girls I have had dealings with have been based on talking and getting to know them. I was fortunate in that aspect i guess. I have never been with a TS escort but have been with prostitutes before and it generally was client customer very little dialogue. If the girl is interested in the guy I assume there will be more thatn a customer relationship. It just seems hard to move beyond that with the professional women though.



for every dude, like esctatic who is obviously at peace with himself....there are 100's of cats, secretly seeing escorts, or lusting over internet images and videos....and not at peace with ourselves....
Hey dajuicy! Thanks for the props. Yeah, I am at peace with myself, but that doesn't mean I don't secretly see escorts, I do. There are some friends I have been able to share my interest with, to one degree or another, and thankfully my loving wife is totally supportive (kiss, kiss, hug, hug), but most of my friends and family fit into that 99% (or whatever the figure is) and I keep it secret. Actually, the biggest reason I don't talk about my seeing escorts with most folks I know is not because they are TS--a lot of people in my personal life know I'm bi, so that's not really an issue--but because they would have a hard time understanding how I can love my wife and see other women on the side. I've talked about that before; it's far too complicated for me to explain here again--let alone to those people I know who wouldn't understand--so I just don't talk about it. My wife and I are totally at ease with it, so what others might or might not think is irrelevant.

One reason I am at peace with myself is that I have had the good fortune to get to know 2 or 3 of the finest escorts well over a 2-3 year period, getting to know them as friends not merely as (I hate the term) providers, plus I have made some really good contacts online with several girls on a totally non-sexual basis, again getting to know the people, and not just the objects of desire. That personal connection is the best, and something this forum (at times) fosters.

I never really went through the "Am I gay" kind of self-doubting or not being at peace with myself over my attraction to TS women because I had already gone through that more years ago than I care to admit when I discovered I was bi. Now I have little attraction to men because I find women far, far more beautiful, and TS women with that infamous "something extra" is the ultimate rush for me.

I agree that the scene seems to be improving in many ways: from Vicki winning AVN TS performer of the year to the popularity of Maury Povich TS episodes to the appearance of TS in network television shows in ever-improving representation to the undeniable sales popularity of TS porn. Granted, it's still almost entirely in the realm of fetish, freaky, shock-value entertainment and it will be a long time before that onus fades, but as anyone who was first attracted to TS back in the 70s and 80s can attest, we have come a long ways.

[Ecstatic]

You may have a point maybe a lot of interaction isn't based on getting the know the person. If it is strictly client customer relationship perhaps a lot of dialoge doesn't transpire. The girls I have had dealings with have been based on talking and getting to know them. I was fortunate in that aspect i guess. I have never been with a TS escort but have been with prostitutes before and it generally was client customer very little dialogue. If the girl is interested in the guy I assume there will be more thatn a customer relationship. It just seems hard to move beyond that with the professional women though.
You're right, as a rule of thumb, which is why there are so few I've seen more than once and also why I'm not so into seeing new girls much these days. When you do connect on a deeper level, the "customer relationship" improves tenfold, at least. The best escorts know this, and foster a GFE to at least create that illusion and make you want to come back. I've been with some very hot, gorgeous girls (no names, but tops on almost anyone's list) who were OK but with whom I didn't make that connection. I saw them once, and that's it. In some cases, I regret it (waste of money), while in other cases it was fine, but not up to repeat.

What I love is when I can call a girl that I first came to know as an escort and then as a friend, and we have a great time chatting, maybe going out to dinner, hanging out. Maybe they're really smart and know that will keep me coming back: good on them. But there's also a genuine and mutual enjoyment of one another's company, and I value that. I know I'm not going to develop an LTR with any of these girls--I'm too old and married for that--but friendship, especially where we talk about a wide range of interests beyond the "behind closed doors" stuff, is the best, and takes it out of the realm of fantasy fulfillment.

[Felicia Katt]

Trust me if I had an opportunity to have a relationship with Mia, Wendywilliams, Allanah, Shavonna, Felicia Katt, I can name several others. I wouldn't pass that opportunity.



They say you can tell about a person by the company they keep, so I'm very flattered to be associated with the likes of Mia, Wendy and Allanah. A very nice compliment. Thank you :)

Felicia

[TrueBeauty TS]

They say you can tell about a person by the company they keep, so I'm very flattered to be associated with the likes of Mia, Wendy and Allanah. A very nice compliment. Thank you :)Felicia


Yeah, but you also hang around me.... so there goes THAT theory. :roll:

[hondarobot]

Here's three major problems I can see:

Most of the men interested in TS girls are motivated out of curiosity or "novelty". Most of the girls are aware of this and become, naturally, defensive. The majority of the general public, because of their own fears and hang-ups, works to keep the whole subject driven underground.

If you're a good guy, and you honestly do love these girls, you're gonna have to put up with a long, hard time on all fronts if you ever hope to have something real with one of 'em. The girls need some time to build up a level of trust, and you can't blame them.

If you're part of the "moral majority" or afraid of the evolution of the TS gender, then you need to pull your head out of your ass.

The best thing we can do is to keep posting intelligent topics on this board, keep talking about what everyone is thinking.

History tells us these things work out eventually, it just sucks having to work through the bad times.

[TrueBeauty TS]

Here's three major problems I can see:

Most of the men interested in TS girls are motivated out of curiosity or "novelty". Most of the girls are aware of this and become, naturally, defensive. The majority of the general public, because of their own fears and hang-ups, works to keep the whole subject driven underground.

If you're a good guy, and you honestly do love these girls, you're gonna have to put up with a long, hard time on all fronts if you ever hope to have something real with one of 'em. The girls need some time to build up a level of trust, and you can't blame them.



I totally agree with that.

[hondarobot]

Thanks TrueBeauty,

I'd love to have you elaborate on things from your end on this. Getting more input from one of the girls seems like a good thing.

:)

[thatguy]

Wow robot, solid post. Ecstatic as always. I miss what this board used to be. It sure seems to have denegrated into a pit of derision.

Aren't we all attracted to TS? That is why we are still reading FFS. Show what it is good, positive and quit with these backbiting, nubhead posts already. Go back to newsgroups, irc where you can be semi-anonymously resented.

Ok I'm running into my $0.51 now and the bar tab is paid.

[Ecstatic]

Some great comments here. Thanks for the props, thatguy. Hondarobot, you hit it solidly. That is so true. But if we can continue great dialogue amongst ourselves as those who, in Hondarobot's words, "honestly do love these girls" and with Felicia, TrueBeauty, Caleigh, and other girls who are open to dialogue and manage to shrug off the offensive blather that gets posted here sometimes, then we'll all be better for it. I hope I get to meet Felicia, Caleigh, and others some day, socially, but until then, I value the discourse here. And, of course, with those wonderful TS friends I have made in person.

[satisfactiondeliverd]

I really appreciate the intelligent conversation that all of you have had on this subject. I agree in several parts with all of you, especially you Kat trust me you are fine in my opinion and I would date you any day of the week.

If the anti-trust wall does come down and the two individuals see a purpose in fostering a relationship then that is very cool. If the family don't agree I am sure several guys have dated people the family didn't agree with, and what did you do? You continued to see them. It ultimatly should come down the the individuals involved and nobody else.

Gay guys and girls walk around holding hands kissing and evey manner of behaviour. I have been to West Hollywood, LA and Germany and everywhere else where people are very progressive. Europe especially.

I am not that jaded to think people will except these relationships that easily but things take time.

[Felicia Katt]

My favorite bumper sticker of all time

The Moral Majority is neither.

Unfortunately, a strident minority can trump a more restrained or ambivalent majority. They take silence as assent. More people need to speak up more.

A good example is here on the boards. Whenever the attacks and the flames start, they are fanned when people sit back, and don't get involved. It wouldn't take much to merely say they disagreed with the views. Or to offer some words of support for those under attack. They often do so privately, but if more did so publically, it would be a cold shower to those who presume their views are shared. And a dose of cold water will extinguish most flames.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing "
Edmunnd Burke

Felicia

[hondarobot]

I know I'm not the only one who thinks this, but I gotta say: Felicia is really. . .well. . . cool!

I'm not really adding anything to this post, but I just had to say it.

[Ecstatic]

Felicia, you're quite right. I try to speak up, but I admit that I'll often view a thread, dislike the turn it's taken with regards to flames, attacks, and abuse, and walk away rather than get involved. Getting involved makes oneself a target, and while I think I speak up more often than most, I keep striving to speak up more--both here and in the world at large. As you imply, the more we do, the more others are apt to join the chorus. And I've got to give you, TrueBeauty, Caleigh, Vicki, Allanah and others props for speaking up and, more, not letting the bashers drive you away or wear you down. I understand when some of the girls feel that they can't take it anymore, like Danielle (whose voice and humor is truly missed here), but us guys should try to foster a more supportive environment here. Not that we should always agree, as intelligent and reasoned disagreement is also vital (as William Blake said, "without contradiction there is no progress"), but that we can improve our communication here.

Or leave the deeper discussions be and go hang out in the hot pics threads. :)

[Felicia Katt]

I know I'm not the only one who thinks this, but I gotta say: Felicia is really. . .well. . . cool!

I'm not really adding anything to this post, but I just had to say it.

:) thank you

[Felicia Katt]

Thank you, Ecstatic. :)
if there were a Katt Family Crest, it would have this credo

Illegitimis Non Carborundum

which is Latin (sort of) for

Don't let the bastards grind you down. :)

I love the exchange of ideas, and I am open to new ones. I don't claim to have all the answers, but I know what to question. Give me the give and take, parry and thrust. point and counterpoint of a good argument. A good turn of phrase is a turn on.

What's a turn off is when discourse degenerates into diatribe. It seems to be a trend in this country's politics, that this board has followed, that you don't have to address ideas if you can denigrate the thinker. Or if you can outshout them. Sound bites, not sound reasoning. Volume over virtue or substance.

I do get weary and wary when I try to make a point and the response is a personal attack. But I strive to stick to my guns, and to the high road and hopefully whatever merit my posts may have shows through whatever malice and mud gets heaped on them

Felicia

[Ecstatic]

Gorgeous, articulate, and you know Latin, too: now that's sexy, Felicia. Thanks for the translation; I would have guessed that meant something like "fake Coke" (illegitimate and non-carbonated). :)

"Sound bites, not sound reasoning"; "volume over virtue"; "weary and wary": nice use of alliteration. Maybe we are succeeding in elevating the standard of communication, one post at a time.

[Felicia Katt]

but otherwise I'm still such a bitch.....





:)

thanks for the nice comliments :)

meow

Felicia

[Ecstatic]

Oh yeah, you're a bitch and I'm a dirty old man...but otherwise, we're alright. :)

[Nowhereboy]

Felicia and Ecstatic,

Personal attacks are the result of an inability to debate the merits of the argument. If you can't kill the message, kill the messenger. I admire both of your abilities to keep the discussion on a reasonable level and advance the discussion rather than encourage it to sink to the depths so many discussions on this board have achieved.

[thatguy]

reverend!



* Johnson,Blazing Saddles for yall yunguns.