Introduction...and a question about autogynephilia

[thompsonforsheriff]

...

What I really wanted to question people about was autogynephilia? How many of you have actually heard the term and know what it means? I ask because I suffer from autogynephilia...well, scratch that, I wouldn't say I 'suffer,' it's really more of a gift :). For those of you not in the know, wikipedia defines autogynephilia as "a man's paraphilic tendency to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman." Which also says it is controversial because it attempts to explain bisexual and lesbian transsexuals, which I agree that it should be controversial, probably because it's wrong. Gender and sexual orientation are separate and it seems perfectly plausible to be a transsexual and lesbian or bisexual. Another aspect I think it neglects to mention is the sexual arousal comes not only from the image of oneself, but anyone, at least in my case. Which is why I find myself hopelessly in pursuit of transsexual girls. I say pursuit because I've yet to catch one, so to speak(anyone interested in helping me change this just pm me :)). Autogynephilia also caused me a bit of confusion in adolescence, but as soon as the sexual arousal is gone, so is the desire to be a woman. So do any other guys identify with this? What about transsexuals? Do you think it's possible to be an autogynephile and transsexual? If so I think one would probably be spending a lot of time masturbating in front of a mirror :). I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts.

Auto-huh?

Wasn't that a TV show in the 80's?

http://www.pop-arena.com/articles/automan/automan1.jpg

[odelay24]

I sometimes have those thoughts.

But honestly, I have thoughts about women, men, transexuals...so I'm not saying it's the same thing, but I can relate slightly I guess.

When I was younger and first got into this, before I had seen any porn or whatever, I fantasized about that more, but not so much now.

P.S. Nice picture, those pictures are blurred to shit though, lol.

I sometimes have those thoughts.

But honestly, I have thoughts about women, men, transexuals...so I'm not saying it's the same thing, but I can relate slightly I guess.

When I was younger and first got into this, before I had seen any porn or whatever, I fantasized about that more, but not so much now.

P.S. Nice picture, those pictures are blurred to shit though, lol.

Jesus H! Brutally honest, are we?

And here's a picture for good measure...and so that people will actually read the post



lol nice caption.

[odelay24]

I sometimes have those thoughts.

But honestly, I have thoughts about women, men, transexuals...so I'm not saying it's the same thing, but I can relate slightly I guess.

When I was younger and first got into this, before I had seen any porn or whatever, I fantasized about that more, but not so much now.

P.S. Nice picture, those pictures are blurred to shit though, lol.

Jesus H! Brutally honest, are we?

...Not really :?

I sometimes have those thoughts.

But honestly, I have thoughts about women, men, transexuals...so I'm not saying it's the same thing, but I can relate slightly I guess.

When I was younger and first got into this, before I had seen any porn or whatever, I fantasized about that more, but not so much now.

P.S. Nice picture, those pictures are blurred to shit though, lol.

Jesus H! Brutally honest, are we?

...Not really :?


You just said you're into dudes. Since I'm a good Christian, I ain't gonna condemn you. I'm just saying...... stop LOOKING AT MY ASS!

[BrendaQG]

Hey all...I've been a lurker for a while, but decided to make the leap to poster...Well, I already made the leap with another post, but a positive response to it has led me to reconsider my lurker status. A little bit more about me...Sorry to disappoint you all, but I'm not a transsexual :) I'm 23, college grad, working as a programmer for a business I'm a partial owner of. I unfortunately live in the Bible Belt, eastern TN to be exact...and god do I hate all the racist, redneck douche bags, but there are good people sprinkled throughout as well. I have extensive family here and many friends, that combined with my work has kept me here, rather than moving somewhere more liberal. I think I'd like to move to the west coast eventually. But enough about me, I'm not that interesting...


Don't sell yourself short it could be much more interesting than another damm discussion of BBL theory.



What I really wanted to question people about was autogynephilia? How many of you have actually heard the term and know what it means?


I have heard of it. Not only from the book Dr. Bailey wrote but I was told about it by Dr. Bailey. It was used to explain to me why most of the transsexuals at a particular support group were so different from most other transsexuals we both knew or met elsewhere.



I ask because I suffer from autogynephilia...well, scratch that, I wouldn't say I 'suffer,' it's really more of a gift :). For those of you not in the know, wikipedia defines autogynephilia as "a man's paraphilic tendency to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman." Which also says it is controversial because it attempts to explain bisexual and lesbian transsexuals, which I agree that it should be controversial, probably because it's wrong. Gender and sexual orientation are separate and it seems perfectly plausible to be a transsexual and lesbian or bisexual.


This is what really prodded me to respond. I did allot of the writing of those articles on wikipedia that related to this. It seems to me that you only read the one Wikipedia:Autogynephilia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogynephilia).

The problem with that is to understand the topic one has to know the context it lives in. The broader Blanchard Bailey and Lawrence Theory (see Wikipedia:BBL Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard%2C_Bailey%2C_and_Lawrence_theory) ) and the concept of the "Homosexual Transsexual" (see Wikipedia:Homosexual Transsexual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_transsexual)).

I don't think it is a 100% total and complete explaination for transsexuality. It's not all about sex. On the other hand sex is not a total non factor either. Anything that involves cutting on the sex organs has sex as a factor.



Another aspect I think it neglects to mention is the sexual arousal comes not only from the image of oneself, but anyone, at least in my case. Which is why I find myself hopelessly in pursuit of transsexual girls. I say pursuit because I've yet to catch one, so to speak(anyone interested in helping me change this just pm me :)). Autogynephilia also caused me a bit of confusion in adolescence, but as soon as the sexual arousal is gone, so is the desire to be a woman.

:-?

If I understand it correctly Autogynephillia is not the same for all autogynephiles. Supposedly the ones for whom it would lead to wanting to be a woman are those who get off on the thought of their own bodies as the body of a naked woman. In particular they fantasies about having a vagina. That is only one type of Autogynephilia. Dr. Blanchard specified four common sub types.



So do any other guys identify with this? What about transsexuals? Do you think it's possible to be an autogynephile and transsexual? If so I think one would probably be spending a lot of time masturbating in front of a mirror :). I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts.

I know exactly what you should read. It is by a woman named Anne Lawrence a self described Autogynephilic Transsexual. That is if you have not read this already.

A New Introduction to Autogynephilia

By Anne Lawrence, M.D. (http://www.annelawrence.com/autogynephilia.html)

Her website has all kinds of stuff by transsexuals who consider themselves to be autogynephilic.

I hope some of this is of use to you.

[tgirlzoe]

I have a friend online who is in high school and who has AGP. We were in a trans chatroom together and it was probably me who mentioned it and people started going off about how it was all BS. But he was new and said, "that kinda sounds like me" and he didn't understand why people were so freaked out by the idea that it exists.

I've used it a couple times in explaining to girlfriends/wives of crossdressers why their husbands do what they do. Men like women. Men are fascinated by women. I'd say most men have fantasized about what it would be like to be a woman, at least temporarily and especially in sex. You can even hear teenage boys be like, "if I had breasts, I'd seriously never leave the house, I'd just sit there and play with them all day" or "I'd totally run out and get laid because girls never have any trouble getting laid and since I'd be a girl, it wouldn't be gay" or "if I was a girl, I'd be a total lesbian" or whatever. Some men take that to an extreme and actually do it through private crossdressing or even hormones and surgery. That's autogynephilia.

I know some guys here might be all caught up in the big city lights and flashy transsexuals who do porn and started hormones at 12 years old in Brazil or whatever. This is not the real world. To be brutally honest, most transsexuals in the US look like men in dresses. They started hormones, not at 16-18, but at 40. They didn't go out and pick up guys at clubs (straight, gay or TS), they had a wife and kids at home. Those are autogynephilic transsexuals ~ crossdressers who took the big leap.

No offense to the OP, I would just advise him to avoid transitioning, if possible. Not all are 45, you can meet pretty clear AGPs who started hormones at 17-25 and some pass decently, although they tend to not as well as those who are naturally feminine. If you don't think you can live you're whole life as a man, even with crossdressing, then I'd do it now rather than later because you still have to survive in society especially with being something as dangerous as a transsexual.

As for whether it describes bisexual and lesbian trans women, I don't think so ~ at least not all of them. I've talked to 16, 17, 18 year old tgirls and many of them identify as bisexual or bi-curious. Some, like our beautiful pierced Claire, have tgirlfriends at home. I have also dated a tgirl and identify as bisexual. It's really common among the high school and college-age girls and tgirls.

There is something different between transsexuals who lived very ordinary, even hypermasculine, heteronormative lifestyles except for private crossdressing for decades prior to transition and those women who did not.

~~~ insert my life story here ~~~

I know a couple of the girls in Kiira Tireas' transkids (http://www.transkids.us) thing and others who support an HSTS/AGP model. While I think it can be useful, I argue about the details. I've also proposed an Internal/External model that avoids much of the problem I have with Blanchard's theory such as bisexuality. But on the other hand, it's really hard to say what was internal and what was external about my transition. My original proposal of the theory was not a dichotomy but rather a scale, something like Kinsey's scale ~ those who were primarily motivated by internalized feelings which were not expressed prior to transition and those whose transition was primarily a way to continue living how they were living (usually feminine and androphilic) but without the social frustrations associated with that. While I find a strong attraction and self-description leaning towards the external side, there were also times in my life when pressure from my parents and beatings in school just got too much and I tried to hide in bleakness as a boy.

Also, where was I prior to learning the idea that boys who act like girls are called "gay"? I was very confused, felt like a freak and a mistake ~ a girl who people kept telling was a boy. I really did sort of think of myself as a girl then, with no transsexual baggage, just frustration against society for trying to group me with icky boys.

Yeah, there are people who clearly fit a model that is autogynephilic ~ heterosexual, private crossdressing, etc. There are also women I know who lived as gay men prior to transition, like irishgirl, who strongly oppose the idea that they transitioned because of social pressures against homosexuality. There are people like me who were Queer before transition and are Queer now (although I keep slipping towards straight society).

Autogynephilia, while it seems to be a syndrome that exists, does not have clear borders when it comes to actually applying it to society and the same goes for description of the counterpart ~ homosexual transsexual. The whole thing is fuzzy and there are probably more reasons to transition than there are transitioners. Everybody's life experience is different and putting people into a dichotomy is just ignoring the details and that's my problem. People are round, they don't fit well in square holes. They slip through the cracks in the boxes you try to put them in.

[tgirlzoe]

~~~ my life story ~~~

Take me for example ~ prior to transition, in high school, most people just assumed I was gay when actually I identified as bisexual. In spite of my, at times flamboyant, effeminacy and very open sexuality and relatively open gender struggles, girls would ask me out and, needing companionship, I would say "yes". I had stated that I would never date a straight girl, at least, because they would want me to act like a straight boy and I can't but if girls want to ask me out, why not? I wasn't getting any play from the boys anyway (which is who I was actually interested in).

Senior year, I met someone who was just as queer as I was and had gone through a lot of the same things socially with being Queer and with internal gender struggles but from the opposite direction ~ he was an FTM. We made an interesting couple since everyone thought I was gay and everyone thought he was a lesbian but we sorta made it work. After a year or so of being together, although polyamorous, we even started talking about marriage and got engaged. I started transitioning while we were together, of course with his full support, and things worked fairly well but we broke up for various reasons two years into it.

I remember running into a girl from my neighborhood once and we were catching up and I said I was getting married and she looked incredulous ~ "to a girl?" "Yeah." "I thought you were gay." "No, I'm bisexual." I remember other times, with previous girlfriends, making out on campus would get us double-takes.

I didn't know I was bisexual until I was in high school. In middle school, I knew I was definitely into boys (as annoying and immature as my peers were, they didn't wholly turn me off from the idea ^_^). I began understanding myself in terms of being gay in 6th grade instead of being a girl who people thought was a boy in spite of everything I did to the contrary. I started using gay porn in 8th grade (hooray for the Internet age!) and my parents even though I don't think they found out, still started pressing me on the "you'd better not be gay" stuff and why the gays were destroying America and that they rape kids and stuff.

I came out in 10th grade as gay, although by that time it was hardly a surprise to anyone. That summer, though, I finally discovered that transition really was possible apart from miracles and all the things of how to do it and I got my name and planned my transitition. That fall, I started coming out as trans. My parents yelled at me, flatly rejected the idea, freaked out on me, threatened to kick me out, and the usual. I struggled and further suicide attempts with this latest severe blow to my hope.

Only a few weeks later, however, one of my friends asked me out. Even though we only dated for a week, she was my first kiss and the first girl I fooled around with. I was very sexually frustrated at that time and anyone who had any interest in me I would have gone for, I also had very low self-esteem and it was hard for me to believe anyone would want me. So girls were better than nothing and I started to realize that while normal girls did absolutely nothing for me and more annoyed me than anything else, some of my friends (who were nearly all female) were actually pretty cool and I decided that even though I wasn't necessarily physically attracted to girls in the same way that I was with guys, I was bisexual.

I transitioned when I was able to break free from my parents, after high school. Since then, I have come to notice more and more tgirls. Mainstream-type tgirls and porn-type tgirls still don't pique my interest but "alternative" tgirls, tgirls who I really find interesting, I end up flirting with all the time. Particularly since transition, my sexuality has gotten all fuzzy and all the lines are blurred and I really have a different approach and sexual experience (even physically) than I did before, and that really caught me off guard.

[CORVETTEDUDE]

WTF?????

[redtiger]

[quote=" For those of you not in the know, wikipedia defines autogynephilia as "a man's paraphilic tendency to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman." [/quote]

Is that actually supposed to be, aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman, or being aroused by the image of playing the passive participant during sexual activity?

I can't understand being aroused just from imagining that you're a woman. That doesn't seem to me to be adequate enough stimulation to cause one to become aroused.

[irishgirl]

WTF?????

Co-sign, lol

[BrendaQG]

@ redtiger.

Well the psychologist who formulated the theory claim to have observed it in controlled conditions. Men who are most turned on by the idea of having female body parts or a total female body.

There are very few transsexuals I have known honestly who perfectly fit this idea.

Take me for example. On one hand I liked many many girly things (most all of the usual cliche's), started hormones at 13, lived almost totally as a girl in HS, had strapping straight jock boyfriends, and was thrown out of the house and had to survive on the streets for long periods, first reported to a gender clinic to be reassigned when I was 19. Some of the standard oft repeated thigns. All things that would point to the homosexual type of transsexual.

On the other hand: At univ I was allowed to say long enough to earn tons of non-transfereable credit then basically told live as a man or leave. I reverted to living as a man at 21. I still liked men never the less I tried heterosex twice. My dream career path has always had me becoming a scientist, then joining the Air Force, then becoming a NASA Astronaut, then working long enough to get to fly to Mars. Things that a "homosexual transsexual" is not supposed to want (or perhaps be able) to do. I did try to join the USAF as an officer when I was 24. I had the education and scored high enough on the potions of the test that measure Aviation ability to get pilot/navagator training. I was still weeded out. "Don't ask don't tell" that should say. "We wont ask but if you don't act 100% macho we wont take you for OTS." A year latter I started hormones again and after 8 months of hormones started to live as a female again. No worse for the wear and wiser for the experience. So ok the book specifies worked as a scientist or in the millitary, not studied in school and tried to join. I'm trying to make the point that this theory does not fit anyone perfectly.

Heck I could describe a well known TS who is a classic example but for having liked sports which is a no no for a HSTS in Dr. Bailey's world.

Take it easy people psychology is called soft science for a reason. It's not very precise.

[ToyBoy6669]

First to the poster, nice to see you again!

I've felt like this many times, imagining my self to be more fem, I always wanted the speed, elegance, poise, flexibility things associated with being fem, being big and burly never ever interested me, thats why I took fencing in high school, a sport biased on grace and speed.

I also know I've always had sexual thoughts about boys, girls, Trans genders(since high school) as long as I can remember, even thought I didn't want to be big and burly, those type of men are attractive to me as well, muscular women too.

I never plan on transitioning to another gender, I like who and what I am physically. Mentally I'm always trying to improve and prioritize my self but sexually I've always known my tastes, ever since I can remember wanting to kiss boys and girls when I was in elementary school.

But in the end I say its what we do that defines us, not the labels we make up for each other or our selfs.

As for finding a Trans gender in your area, try a personals site thats what I did for my first, and she was WONDERFUL! lol and a foot taller then me, foot and a half in her high heels!

hope to see you post again!

[SarahG]

I know some guys here might be all caught up in the big city lights and flashy transsexuals who do porn and started hormones at 12 years old in Brazil or whatever. This is not the real world. To be brutally honest, most transsexuals in the US look like men in dresses. They started hormones, not at 16-18, but at 40. They didn't go out and pick up guys at clubs (straight, gay or TS), they had a wife and kids at home. Those are autogynephilic transsexuals ~ crossdressers who took the big leap.

Isn't that painting with a fairly broad brush?

I can't speak from personal expirence but I really doubt all the middle aged (or older) transistoiners are AGs.

As to age & countries... I suspect with America that's more of a generation based issue due to the way the times have changed.

I don't have statistics to back me up on this, but I suspect that the easy availability of hormones (for example; online sites) has played a fairly important role, not to mention the near abandonment of the gender clinic system which was once the only game in town for people wanting to transistion here.

I can't speak to how people transitioned during this same time period in other countries... especially, say, Asia... but I am going to go out on a limb and guess that the availability of treatments related to transitioning was not as controlled as say, America where hrt related drugs have been controlled (in the sense that the patient/consumer needs an Rx to get them prior to easy access through medias like the internet...). This is a major difference from *MANY* other countries (especially nonwestern ones) where estrogen is nonRx and can be (presently or historically) bought in grocery stores and gas stations.

[SarahG]

WTF?????

wtf indeed

[thompsonforsheriff]

Wow...I actually got more intelligent, detailed responses than I thought. I'll reply to some of the shorter posts first:


[quote=" For those of you not in the know, wikipedia defines autogynephilia as "a man's paraphilic tendency to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman."

Is that actually supposed to be, aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman, or being aroused by the image of playing the passive participant during sexual activity?

I can't understand being aroused just from imagining that you're a woman. That doesn't seem to me to be adequate enough stimulation to cause one to become aroused.[/quote]

Yes, actually aroused by the thought of image of oneself as a woman. I don't pretend to understand it either, but I've dealt with it for quite a while. Hook me up to a machine that records brainwaves, etc...I'll prove it. I can lay down, close my eyes, start thinking, and that's enough.

I'll get to the other, longer posts momentarily...

[thompsonforsheriff]

In response to BrendaQG's post.


Don't sell yourself short it could be much more interesting than another damm discussion of BBL theory.

Hah, thanks for the vote of confidence :). However the second half of the sentence makes me slightly wish I hadn't brought the issue to the surface, but then again it's of certain interest to me so...thank you for you for your detailed response.



This is what really prodded me to respond. I did allot of the writing of those articles on wikipedia that related to this. It seems to me that you only read the one Wikipedia:Autogynephilia.

The problem with that is to understand the topic one has to know the context it lives in. The broader Blanchard Bailey and Lawrence Theory (see Wikipedia:BBL Theory ) and the concept of the "Homosexual Transsexual" (see Wikipedia:Homosexual Transsexual).

I don't think it is a 100% total and complete explaination for transsexuality. It's not all about sex. On the other hand sex is not a total non factor either. Anything that involves cutting on the sex organs has sex as a factor.

I'll retract my statement that says it was wrong, but I agree it's not an explanation for 100% of transsexuality. The issue is far from black and white. You're right, I had not read the other two articles. It seems possible that it could explain some lesbian and bisexual transsexuals, but definitely not all of them. If I had chose to transition early in life, it would've probably been a dead on description of myself, but I am glad I did not transition.


If I understand it correctly Autogynephillia is not the same for all autogynephiles. Supposedly the ones for whom it would lead to wanting to be a woman are those who get off on the thought of their own bodies as the body of a naked woman. In particular they fantasies about having a vagina. That is only one type of Autogynephilia. Dr. Blanchard specified four common sub types.

If I were going to classify myself. It would definitely be the anatomic subtype. Which seems to be what you're describing. Except that the anatomic parts that do it for me, are only ones that create sexual arousal or physical attraction(hourglass figure, feminine face, long hair), not genitals, or a vagina(well, some people may be attracted to genitalia, but for the most part I don't think this is true). I have had highly sexual dreams pertaining to this. But the part of my experience that doesn't seem to fit into the model quite so neatly is the ability to transfer the feeling to other transgendered girls. Also, this desire to be a woman quickly fades with sexual arousal. The two seem to be synergistic. The other subtypes seem to describe people who are probably prone to crossdressing and the like, and may explain why I myself am not so interested in it.


I know exactly what you should read. It is by a woman named Anne Lawrence a self described Autogynephilic Transsexual. That is if you have not read this already.

A New Introduction to Autogynephilia

By Anne Lawrence, M.D.

Her website has all kinds of stuff by transsexuals who consider themselves to be autogynephilic. I hope some of this is of use to you.

Yes, that does sound like an interesting read. I will give it a try. Your response has definitely been of use. I really appreciate you taking the time to write all that out. The answers seem to be quite difficult to extract using polling and scientific studies of existing transsexuals and such. The human brain is too complex, and it seems most labels are only descriptions or generalizations of common behaviors among groups of people. For me, I think there's gender, sexual orientation, and extending from sexuality there are paraphilias. For these you obviously have male/female for gender, attraction to males/females for orientation, and a number of paraphilias to throw into the mix. So when you think about all the combinations and all the possible feelings from these people, trying to single them out and group them into logical units can obviously get quite confusing. Alright, next is tgirlzoe's post...it should be interesting trying to wrap my head around all that...

[Tanuki]

I wish my attention deficit disorder would go away so I could read all this..

Your all gone have to trust me on what I am about to say is not meant to offend anyone.. suddenly I am compelled to say that.

The fear of transexualism is based on an idea that
A person is wearing a costume in order to manipulate or take advantage of their prey.

You might all think I am crazy for saying that now, But it is a thought and I dont know where to put it..

Yes. it is a fear I have had, but it is not my actual belief..

I am throwing it into the HA soup..

peace

[thompsonforsheriff]

In response to tgirlzoe's post


I know some guys here might be all caught up in the big city lights and flashy transsexuals who do porn and started hormones at 12 years old in Brazil or whatever. This is not the real world. To be brutally honest, most transsexuals in the US look like men in dresses. They started hormones, not at 16-18, but at 40. They didn't go out and pick up guys at clubs (straight, gay or TS), they had a wife and kids at home. Those are autogynephilic transsexuals ~ crossdressers who took the big leap.

I'm going to have to agree with SarahG for the most part. Her answers seemed reasonable, even if not backed any direct scientific evidence, polling, etc...The real answers for this may never be known, but I think the above is probably an unfair generalization. And it may be possible AG explains some of these types of transitioners, but lumping them all into the same group and saying this is how it is can't be right. Is this what all the 'WTF?' posts are about? There seems to be plenty of transgendered girls here from the USA who are just as beautiful as any brazilian, and starting transition just as early. I really think you should take your own advice in response to this as well, which was "Autogynephilia, while it seems to be a syndrome that exists, does not have clear borders when it comes to actually applying it to society."


No offense to the OP, I would just advise him to avoid transitioning, if possible. Not all are 45, you can meet pretty clear AGPs who started hormones at 17-25 and some pass decently, although they tend to not as well as those who are naturally feminine. If you don't think you can live you're whole life as a man, even with crossdressing, then I'd do it now rather than later because you still have to survive in society especially with being something as dangerous as a transsexual.

Advice taken. I decided, probably as soon as puberty started, that transition was not for me. The AG just created some confusion that I think I have cleared up. I will be perfectly happy as a male in a LTR with a genetic girl or transgendered girl, for the rest of my life. I'm especially interested in a LTR with a transgendered girl because of the enhanced sexual arousal it seems to provide for me, but it's not something that would make or break a relationship for me. I don't really care for crossdressing, gave it a try early on, but eventually gave it up.


As for whether it describes bisexual and lesbian trans women, I don't think so ~ at least not all of them. I've talked to 16, 17, 18 year old tgirls and many of them identify as bisexual or bi-curious. Some, like our beautiful pierced Claire, have tgirlfriends at home. I have also dated a tgirl and identify as bisexual. It's really common among the high school and college-age girls and tgirls.

I think I addressed this in my previous post to BrendQG. AG is definitely not an umbrella term that explains all bisexual/lesbian transsexuals.


Yeah, there are people who clearly fit a model that is autogynephilic ~ heterosexual, private crossdressing, etc. There are also women I know who lived as gay men prior to transition, like irishgirl, who strongly oppose the idea that they transitioned because of social pressures against homosexuality. There are people like me who were Queer before transition and are Queer now (although I keep slipping towards straight society).

I strongly feel I fit the model. Irishgirl, from what I can tell truly seems to be homosexual(in regards to her gender at birth) and identifies her gender as female. These kinds of people, to me, seem to be the best possible fit for transitioning. What I think might really be tripping people up, and what can potentially make things very confusing are people who fit irishgirl's situation, but also have a paraphilia such as autogynephilia. I'd hate to have to be the person who was trying to sort all that out. I'm glad I didn't have to, and have a deep respect and sympathy for those who did and still are. Which is partly why I am interested if any of the transsexuals here identify themselves as autogynephiles. I will get to the 2nd half of your post momentarily...

[thompsonforsheriff]

I wish my attention deficit disorder would go away so I could read all this..

Your all gone have to trust me on what I am about to say is not meant to offend anyone.. suddenly I am compelled to say that.

The fear of transexualism is based on an idea that
A person is wearing a costume in order to manipulate or take advantage of their prey.

You might all think I am crazy for saying that now, But it is a thought and I dont know where to put it..

Yes. it is a fear I have had, but it is not my actual belief..

I am throwing it into the HA soup..

peace

haha...tanuki...yes, the posts are decently long and involved, but serious discussion usually involves dialogues of some length, unlike most other posts/discussions on the board such as, "You're hot, I wanna do you in the but," or "what's with all you haters? I just..." which seems to be a large percentage. You know they make medication for ADD, right? I'm sure some Adderall would do you wonders. I don't even have ADD, but when I take adderall it definitely increases my ability to concentrate.

In regards to the rest of your post. I think you may want to create your own topic, as it doesn't really seem to fit the main discussion in this thread.

[odelay24]

I sometimes have those thoughts.

But honestly, I have thoughts about women, men, transexuals...so I'm not saying it's the same thing, but I can relate slightly I guess.

When I was younger and first got into this, before I had seen any porn or whatever, I fantasized about that more, but not so much now.

P.S. Nice picture, those pictures are blurred to shit though, lol.

Jesus H! Brutally honest, are we?

...Not really :?


You just said you're into dudes. Since I'm a good Christian, I ain't gonna condemn you. I'm just saying...... stop LOOKING AT MY ASS!

I just knew that's what you were getting at.
Don't be so fucking childish. Who someone likes is who someone likes.

And by the way, don't act try and bring your religion into this, I'm Catholic myself.
You're looking at porn you know.
James 2:10 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."[/i]

[BrendaQG]

I find it interesting that so many many admiers of TS's think those kind of thoughts. It's not surprising. I have known in real life admierers to advanced, eventually to being TS themselves. Makes me wonder if every guy who is into TS's is like that.

[thompsonforsheriff]

In response to the 2nd half of tgirlzoe's post. Wow, you're life and inner psychological struggles make my own seem petty, and it doesn't sound as if AG played a role in your bisexual nature. There were some parts of your story which did interest/confuse me a bit...



Only a few weeks later, however, one of my friends asked me out. Even though we only dated for a week, she was my first kiss and the first girl I fooled around with. I was very sexually frustrated at that time and anyone who had any interest in me I would have gone for, I also had very low self-esteem and it was hard for me to believe anyone would want me. So girls were better than nothing and I started to realize that while normal girls did absolutely nothing for me and more annoyed me than anything else, some of my friends (who were nearly all female) were actually pretty cool and I decided that even though I wasn't necessarily physically attracted to girls in the same way that I was with guys, I was bisexual.

Can you explain the difference in your attraction to girls/guys? I mean, for me, it seems fairly simple to describe what I'm sexually attracted to. If I feel horny and my penis becomes hard, it's usually a sign of sexual attraction. And I can generally fairly easy realize what I'm focusing on at the time. I'm not saying it should be just as simple to describe for yourself. I'm just trying to give you my own perspective so maybe you can write in response to it to give me a better understanding.


I transitioned when I was able to break free from my parents, after high school. Since then, I have come to notice more and more tgirls. Mainstream-type tgirls and porn-type tgirls still don't pique my interest but "alternative" tgirls, tgirls who I really find interesting, I end up flirting with all the time. Particularly since transition, my sexuality has gotten all fuzzy and all the lines are blurred and I really have a different approach and sexual experience (even physically) than I did before, and that really caught me off guard.

When you say bisexual, are you attracted more to transsexual girls, rather than genetic girls? I think I remember reading about some people having the concept of gender and sometimes sexual orientation as a spectrum, with male/female and heterosexual/homosexual at the ends of it. Does that hold any weight for you?

[thompsonforsheriff]

I find it interesting that so many many admiers of TS's think those kind of thoughts. It's not surprising. I have known in real life admierers to advanced, eventually to being TS themselves. Makes me wonder if every guy who is into TS's is like that.

Ditto...or in the appropriate internet message board vernacular "co-sign"

[peggygee]

What I really wanted to question people about was autogynephilia? How many of you have actually heard the term and know what it means? I ask because I suffer from autogynephilia....

To the OP, I have read partially through your initial posts and some of the
responses to it.

I'll say it's quite commendable for a first post, and beats the hell out of
the usual initial "Am I gay" posts.

For now I will reserve comment, and leave the obligatory bucket of
popcorn to mark my place.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/popcorn.jpg

[thompsonforsheriff]

To the OP, I have read partially through your initial posts and some of the
responses to it.

I'll say it's quite commendable for a first post, and beats the hell out of
the usual initial "Am I gay" posts.

For now I will reserve comment, and leave the obligatory bucket of
popcorn to mark my place.

Thanks peggygee. I like your location, seems like a good place to be. And sorry if I'm a bit naive/ignorant, but what is the IPOWA?

[*So_Glam*]

I suffer from autogynephelia also not sure if I spelled it right every time i have a sex dream its about a hunk performing oral sex on my vagina

[mbf]

I find it interesting that so many many admiers of TS's think those kind of thoughts. It's not surprising. I have known in real life admierers to advanced, eventually to being TS themselves. Makes me wonder if every guy who is into TS's is like that.

definitely not. altho, some TS i personally know asked me if i like to wear womens clothes

which i have once in my lifetime. at school i played a woman in theather class once.

[thompsonforsheriff]

I find it interesting that so many many admiers of TS's think those kind of thoughts. It's not surprising. I have known in real life admierers to advanced, eventually to being TS themselves. Makes me wonder if every guy who is into TS's is like that.

definitely not. altho, some TS i personally know asked me if i like to wear womens clothes

which i have once in my lifetime. at school i played a woman in theather class once.

It does seem to be prevalent, but I'm sure it's not absolutely everyone. What is it about trans girls that makes you attracted specifically to them?

[BrendaQG]

Never mind I misread.

[thompsonforsheriff]

Nah, mbf.

[tgirlzoe]

In response to the 2nd half of tgirlzoe's post. Wow, you're life and inner psychological struggles make my own seem petty, and it doesn't sound as if AG played a role in your bisexual nature. There were some parts of your story which did interest/confuse me a bit...



Only a few weeks later, however, one of my friends asked me out. Even though we only dated for a week, she was my first kiss and the first girl I fooled around with. I was very sexually frustrated at that time and anyone who had any interest in me I would have gone for, I also had very low self-esteem and it was hard for me to believe anyone would want me. So girls were better than nothing and I started to realize that while normal girls did absolutely nothing for me and more annoyed me than anything else, some of my friends (who were nearly all female) were actually pretty cool and I decided that even though I wasn't necessarily physically attracted to girls in the same way that I was with guys, I was bisexual.

Can you explain the difference in your attraction to girls/guys? I mean, for me, it seems fairly simple to describe what I'm sexually attracted to. If I feel horny and my penis becomes hard, it's usually a sign of sexual attraction. And I can generally fairly easy realize what I'm focusing on at the time. I'm not saying it should be just as simple to describe for yourself. I'm just trying to give you my own perspective so maybe you can write in response to it to give me a better understanding.

I'm rarely physically attracted to a girl. It's more just a "she's cool and pretty" thing rather than anything deeply physically attractive. However, I still think it's fun to make out with and perhaps even fool around with girls. I've also ended up dating a couple of them. I'm bisexual, I'm just not physically attracted to girls but that doesn't mean I'm not attracted to them on other levels which are just as important.


When you say bisexual, are you attracted more to transsexual girls, rather than genetic girls? I think I remember reading about some people having the concept of gender and sometimes sexual orientation as a spectrum, with male/female and heterosexual/homosexual at the ends of it. Does that hold any weight for you?

I guess. I think the thing that I like about tgirls is more just the connection we have and honesty and openness. It makes for good friendships and it could, in theory, make for good relationships. I did date a tgirl but it was a pretty unhealthy relationship. I only know a couple of tgirls my age in real life so mainly it's just an online thing, who knows what would happen in the real world with them?

[drock]

Auto What the Fuck?

[thompsonforsheriff]

Auto What the Fuck?

lol, you're a regular Shakespeare. If you have any real questions I'll do my best to answer them.