More Libby fallout

[ps911fan]

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/07/08/kristol-machiavellian/

Looking forward to the Conyers hearing of this travesty.............

[guyone]

Looking forward to seeing the bolsheviks out of office and sanity return to our government.

[chefmike]

Looking forward to seeing the bolsheviks out of office and sanity return to our government.

Then I guess that you consider the repugs to be the bolsheviks gumpone, because they are the only ones being run out of office. It started last November, in case you hadn't noticed...you are indeed another GOP dupe in deep denial, gump.

[White_Male_Canada]

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/07/08/kristol-machiavellian/

Looking forward to the Conyers hearing of this travesty.............

You`re a certified idiot.

Article II Section II U.S. Constitution.

Conyers has nothing but bullshit.

[trish]

You`re a certified idiot.

I know you are :lol:

(one childish remark deserves another, let's stop here)

[White_Male_Canada]

You`re a certified idiot.

I know you are :lol:

(one childish remark deserves another, let's stop here)

If you guys don`t even know what your own blueprint says, then yes, you`re an idiot.

[ps911fan]

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/07/08/kristol-machiavellian/

Looking forward to the Conyers hearing of this travesty.............

You`re a certified idiot.

Article II Section II U.S. Constitution.

Conyers has nothing but bullshit.


Here comes some of of those hated fact whitebitch_canada can't handle.....

he answer is that the reason why Armitage, Libby, and the other leakers weren't prosecuted under the IIPA is that the IIPA requires proof, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the leaker had actual knowledge that the CIA agent's employment was classified at the time of the leak.

To prove that, you need to be able to prove how the person found out about the fact of CIA employment. In the case of Armitage, it was clear that he didn't know; he found out from a document that said nothing about Plame's covert status. In the case of Libby, it was less clear what he knew, but Fitzgerald nonetheless concluded that he couldn't prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt.

The real issue is what Cheney knew and when he knew it. Libby's lies were intentionally designed to keep Fitzgerald from getting a closer look at Cheney and determining what role Cheney had in the leak campaign and whether he knew Plame was covert. That's why the obstruction was a big deal. That's why no one was charged; the IIPA requires that you prove knowledge and Fitzgerald couldn't.

An additional point that's relevant. Most of Libby's defenders -- George W. Bush, David Brooks, etc. -- don't seem to be denying that Libby committed a crime by lying under oath to investigators. They want us to say that, rather, he deserves to be treated very leniently because there was no big deal here. The alleged absence of an underlying crime is key to that theory. The converse theory is that there was an underlying crime and the crime can't be proven because Libby lied to investigators.

If that theory is wrong -- if there really was no crime -- then it seems we ought to get some kind of explanation from Libby as to why he lied. People sometimes do have reasons to lie to investigators other than a desire to cover up criminal activity (hiding non-criminal activity that's embarrassing is the obvious one) but if Libby wants mercy he should offer up a plausible score on this account. But Libby hasn't offered any such story. Instead, he's offered a wildly implausible story -- that he's innocent. Under those circumstances, it's very odd to offer clemency. He's shown no remorse and appears to be continually engaged in a conspiracy to obstruct justice. Maybe there was no crime here; but if there wasn't, then what was Libby doing? He's not even trying to convince us that he had some other reason to lie

credit: Matt Yeglaisis


my take on it is pretty simple (even our RW dummies can understand these facts)

he "X piece of information" that Fitzgerald was looking for was the opposite of perjury, i.e. truthful testimony under oath, from the people who were in the room when the decision to burn an undercover American spy was made. Duh. Maybe Fitzgerald didn't explain this because only a fucking moron would have needed it to be explained to him.

(if you want examples of said morons, talk to our RW idiots here)

Just be aware, everyone, we all are perfectly aware that testimonial evidence is evidence. Bush and the RW consider the political fortunes of the Republican Party to be more important than the effectiveness of American intelligence or the safety of our fellow citizens. Bush will happily advocate the deaths of thousands of Americans or millions of non-Americans just to see his party possibly win on Election Day 2008.

[White_Male_Canada]

Looking forward to the Conyers hearing of this travesty.............

You`re a certified idiot.

Article II Section II U.S. Constitution.

Conyers has nothing but bullshit.



Here comes some of of those hated fact white_canada can't handle.....

The problem with the radical left is that the only thing that fills the void in their collective consciousness is the hope that life can somehow be explained by one massive conspiracy after another, giving them some structure to their otherwise empty lives.

Here`s the problem with your conspiracy.

- Joe and Val hobnobbed throughout Washington DC cocktail parties with ol` Joe introducing his wife as an employee of the CIA.

- 36 news organizations confederated to file a friend-of-the-court brief in the judith Miller case. To be brief, all 36 stated no law was broken because Plame's identity as a CIA officer was first disclosed to Russia in the mid-1990s and that when the CIA sent classified documents to the Swiss embassy in Havana, the Cubans, as Bill Gertz reported, "[t]he documents were supposed to be sealed from the Cuban government, but [unidentified U.S.] intelligence officials said the Cubans read the classified material and learned the secrets contained in them."

-The Senate Select Intelligence Committee dedicated 48 pages to Joe Wilson that demonstrates, in detail, that virtually everything Joseph Wilson said publicly about his trip, from its origins to his conclusions, was false.

And of course Val was publicly listed in WhosWho since `99.

[ps911fan]

[quote]
[quote="White_Bitch_Canada"][quote]


The problem with the radical left is that the only thing that fills the void in their collective consciousness is the hope that life can somehow be explained by one massive conspiracy after another, giving them some structure to their otherwise empty lives.

Here`s the problem with your conspiracy.

- Joe and Val hobnobbed throughout Washington DC cocktail parties with ol` Joe introducing his wife as an employee of the CIA.

- 36 news organizations confederated to file a friend-of-the-court brief in the judith Miller case. To be brief, all 36 stated no law was broken because Plame's identity as a CIA officer was first disclosed to Russia in the mid-1990s and that when the CIA sent classified documents to the Swiss embassy in Havana, the Cubans, as Bill Gertz reported, "[t]he documents were supposed to be sealed from the Cuban government, but [unidentified U.S.] intelligence officials said the Cubans read the classified material and learned the secrets contained in them."

-The Senate Select Intelligence Committee dedicated 48 pages to Joe Wilson that demonstrates, in detail, that virtually everything Joseph Wilson said publicly about his trip, from its origins to his conclusions, was false.

And of course Val was publicly listed in WhosWho since `99.




Most of your info is BS especially the Senate Committee - run by another Bush Bitch Pat Roberts.......

Valerie Plame was under cover....there is no facts except RW spin that she was introduced by her husband as a CIA worker.....

Once again, the real facts are clear.....presented in a court of law by Patrick Fitzgerald........showing that Valerie Plame was covert when outed..,,.

Reasonable people like facts....here is the unspinnable evidence.....

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/070529_Unclassified_Plame_employement.pdf

supporting articles that completely blow your BS away

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18924679/

http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/7/13/04720/

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/29/politics/animal/main2865777.shtml

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/16/plame-covert-testimony/

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2007/07/07/three-solid-sources-valerie-wilson-was-covert/#comment-356519


Some idiots just dont learn........WMC is proud of his lack of knowledge

[White_Male_Canada]

[quote]
[quote="White_Bitch_Canada"][quote]


The problem with the radical left is that the only thing that fills the void in their collective consciousness is the hope that life can somehow be explained by one massive conspiracy after another, giving them some structure to their otherwise empty lives.

Here`s the problem with your conspiracy.

- Joe and Val hobnobbed throughout Washington DC cocktail parties with ol` Joe introducing his wife as an employee of the CIA.

- 36 news organizations confederated to file a friend-of-the-court brief in the judith Miller case. To be brief, all 36 stated no law was broken because Plame's identity as a CIA officer was first disclosed to Russia in the mid-1990s and that when the CIA sent classified documents to the Swiss embassy in Havana, the Cubans, as Bill Gertz reported, "[t]he documents were supposed to be sealed from the Cuban government, but [unidentified U.S.] intelligence officials said the Cubans read the classified material and learned the secrets contained in them."

-The Senate Select Intelligence Committee dedicated 48 pages to Joe Wilson that demonstrates, in detail, that virtually everything Joseph Wilson said publicly about his trip, from its origins to his conclusions, was false.

And of course Val was publicly listed in WhosWho since `99.




Most of your info is BS especially the Senate Committee - run by another Bush Bitch Pat Roberts.......

Valerie Plame was under cover....there is no facts except RW spin that she was introduced by her husband as a CIA worker.....

Once again, the real facts are clear.....presented in a court of law by Patrick Fitzgerald........showing that Valerie Plame was covert when outed..,,.

Reasonable people like facts....here is the unspinnable evidence.....

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/070529_Unclassified_Plame_employement.pdf

supporting articles that completely blow your BS away

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18924679/

http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/7/13/04720/

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/29/politics/animal/main2865777.shtml

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/16/plame-covert-testimony/

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2007/07/07/three-solid-sources-valerie-wilson-was-covert/#comment-356519


Some idiots just dont learn........WMC is proud of his lack of knowledge

Deny reality all you like. Go read the amicus. Can`t be covert if everyone knows, including 36 news organizations,therefore no underlying crime.. 8)

- 36 news organizations confederated to file a friend-of-the-court brief in the judith Miller case. To be brief, all 36 stated no law was broken because Plame's identity as a CIA officer was first disclosed to Russia in the mid-1990s and that when the CIA sent classified documents to the Swiss embassy in Havana, the Cubans, as Bill Gertz reported, "[t]he documents were supposed to be sealed from the Cuban government, but [unidentified U.S.] intelligence officials said the Cubans read the classified material and learned the secrets contained in them."

[thombergeron]

Jesus Christ, Michael. I go away for a few months and come back to discover that you are still shilling the same fictional nonsense that we debunked, what, a year ago? You know that this stuff is false, and yet you continue to peddle it anyway. Why bother? What do you get out of purposefully being a dissembler? Why spend such an enormous chunk of your life posting falsehoods to a shemale bulletin board? Even if your life truly is that empty, surely playing solitaire or raking leaves would be a more constructive and rewarding use of your time.

You only get one life. This is how you’re going to spend it?


And of course Val was publicly listed in WhosWho since `99.

You post this fuzzy jpeg over and over again, and yet you can’t be bothered to simply explain its relevance. I’ve asked you at least twice before to show me where Joe Wilson’s Who’s Who entry states, “My wife works for the CIA.” Because that, Michael, is what’s at issue here.


- Joe and Val hobnobbed throughout Washington DC cocktail parties with ol` Joe introducing his wife as an employee of the CIA.

This is just a lie. Very silly, and false. Presented entirely without documentary evidence.


Deny reality all you like. Go read the amicus. Can`t be covert if everyone knows, including 36 news organizations,therefore no underlying crime.. 8)

- 36 news organizations confederated to file a friend-of-the-court brief in the judith Miller case. To be brief, all 36 stated no law was broken because Plame's identity as a CIA officer was first disclosed to Russia in the mid-1990s and that when the CIA sent classified documents to the Swiss embassy in Havana, the Cubans, as Bill Gertz reported, "[t]he documents were supposed to be sealed from the Cuban government, but [unidentified U.S.] intelligence officials said the Cubans read the classified material and learned the secrets contained in them."

This story has no basis in fact whatsoever. It is entirely based on a single Washington Times story by Bill Gertz, who has a terrible reputation for simply making things up. Gertz’s story includes no named sources at all, and attributes the blown cover fairy tale to a single anonymous intelligence official.

Even if this story were true (and it’s not – see below), it’s of no relevance to Fitzgerald’s investigation. According to Gertz, “everyone” didn’t know; the Russian and Cuban intelligence agencies knew. And that would still be classified. It appears that Gertz’s fictional anonymous source is transferring classified information, which is, I hope you’ll agree, a federal crime.

Moreover, you can’t read the Amici Curiae brief because it was never filed. Victoria Toensing, a known dissembler with no credibility on this issue, filed a motion for permission to file an Amici Curiae brief. The motion was accompanied by no affidavits, and was subsequently denied without dissent by the DC Circuit Court, primarily because there was no factual evidence at all to support the fantastic claims made by Toensing.

But why rely on Gertz and Toensing’s fantastic imagination when we have direct confirmation of Plame’s covert status from DCI Hayden? This from the opening statement by Rep. Henry A. Waxman Chairman, Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, March 16, 2007:


[DCI] General Hayden and the CIA have cleared these following comments for today's hearing.
During her employment at the CIA, Ms. Wilson was under cover.
Her employment status with the CIA was classified information prohibited from disclosure under Executive Order 12958.
At the time of the publication of Robert Novak's column on July 14, 2003, Ms. Wilson's CIA employment status was covert.
This was classified information.

[guyone]

Valerie Plame is a bolshevik agent. Everyone knows that. I can't understand why she isn't in front of a firing squad.

[thombergeron]

And of course Val was publicly listed in WhosWho since `99.

Michael, I'm still hoping for your explanation of how Joseph Wilson's Who's Who entry is at all relevant to the (settled) debate over Valerie Plame's covert status.

Really, I'm interested.

[Oli]

Michael, I'm still hoping for your explanation of how Joseph Wilson's Who's Who entry is at all relevant to the (settled) debate over Valerie Plame's covert status.

Really, I'm interested.

Nice to have you back Thom...Facts never gets in the way of a good diatribe do they? If you can be buried under enough shit, you may lose track of the underlying truth, always the tactic of the weak hand.

[thombergeron]

Huah, Oli.

Part of me hopes that Michael just grows some shame at some point and realizes what an empty endeavor he's engaged in here.

[Quinn]

And of course Val was publicly listed in WhosWho since `99.

Michael, I'm still hoping for your explanation of how Joseph Wilson's Who's Who entry is at all relevant to the (settled) debate over Valerie Plame's covert status.

Really, I'm interested.

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that explanation, Thom. Though it doesn't say so on his post ID, the word from on high is that "White_Male_Canda" has been banned.

By the way, allow me to join Oli in welcoming you back. Your enlightened contribution has always been appreciated here.

-Quinn