Why is it that brazilian girls all have balls?

[Rod la Rod]

Is it a cultural thing? I have noticed that many TS girls from the US, Asia, Mexico, Europe etc., have an Orchidectomy to enhance femininity, hairlessness etc., but the Brazilian girls seem to always have intact balls. Just wondering if anyone had info or opinion on this.

I think a super feminine TS with an "orchy" is a huge turn on. Like the amazing and flawless "Madison".

[mikejones]

Yeah, the orchy look is cool. Looks very femme.

[tsntx]

bc the brasillian ones are only "TS" for the money/escort/porn scene... when theyve had enough they go back to being men.

[drock]

bc the brasillian ones are only "TS" for the money/escort/porn scene... when theyve had enough they go back to being men.

I dont think that's the case at all and doubt that Brazillian TS make that much money for starters!

[praetor]

bc the brasillian ones are only "TS" for the money/escort/porn scene... when theyve had enough they go back to being men.

LOL. R U KIDDING?

[DJ_Asia]

bc the brasillian ones are only "TS" for the money/escort/porn scene... when theyve had enough they go back to being men.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Gimme a break

[yosi]

bc the brasillian ones are only "TS" for the money/escort/porn scene... when theyve had enough they go back to being men.

this is BULLSHIT

what is this "fact" based on?

[tsntx]

its based on several articles some of which have been posted on this very site... im not like LG and can find everything about every topic ever said... but several and by several i mean a lot have done this... read up on the articles... theyll tell you that as men they dont make squat and that theres a lot more money and a lot more opportunities for a ts then a fag... after about 10yrs they go back to being men... say what you want about what im saying but remember... youre a guy that likes chicks w/ dicks and im a transexual... i think i know more on the topic then your ass does.

[TJ347]

I have noticed that many TS girls from the US, Asia, Mexico, Europe etc., have an Orchidectomy

Really? Because that's not what I've noticed.

[LG]

its based on several articles some of which have been posted on this very site... im not like LG and can find everything about every topic ever said... but several and by several i mean a lot have done this... read up on the articles...

Eh? I'll take that comment as a compliment, Jen. As a researcher/ consultant finding everything on every topic ever said is my job.

I think the most pertinent example of what you're talking about is Lisa Lawer (or is it Lawyer- nobody seems to know for sure) who apparently got rid of her boobs, grew a goatee and went on to marry her (female) cousin. Apparently she (or rather, he) is also a bible-thumping, born-again Christian.

http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=12246
http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=10918
http://www.hungangels.com/board/files/post_12_1156835304_182.jpg
I wouldn't say that all the Brazilian transsexuals are like this, but I think it might be true that Brazilian's prefer their transgirls to have their testicles intact and I think it's also fair to say that it makes it easier for the girls to get it up without lots of medication and to cum for the camera.

But I don't think it's so fair to generalise and say that all Brazilian TS have gone through their transformation just to make money. That's an awful lot of pain and trouble to go through just for cash. And I think it's fair to point out that many end up getting SRS in the end.

I will see if I can find more examples of both cases for you. What kind of researcher would I be otherwise? :lol:

[TJ347]

Most tgirls who still have dicks still have balls too, and I'll bet good money on that. I have no sources other than personal experiences and common sense, and in truth, need no source other than that last one.

[LG]

its based on several articles some of which have been posted on this very site...

There was this older post by seanchai too:

The reality might be worse than what you would probably like to hear but without naming specific models (as I don't know) most of them have probably died of Aids. Although many of the TS's in Brazil have became more aware recently, it's still frustrating to see so many more openly having unprotected sex. I'm don't get their mind-set at all on why they'd do that knowing what the chances are but Brazilians in general, seem to like to live young and beautiful. I know of a number of models that members of this site lust/have lusted over who were HIV+ and still working in the industry.
My attitude on Brazil - admire from afar and if you do go down there BE VERY SAFE.
Others may have relocated (especially to Europe) or still work in the industry as "pimps/madames" and such. Others may revert back to their male selves.
seanchai

I think seanchai, Louie Damazo and a handful of others might be able to enlighten us on how frequently this kind of thing happens.

[DJ_Asia]

Yes Lisa Lawer did change her identity back to homme...and to my knowledge thats it.Perhaps I was having a nap when one or 2 other bonecas reverted back to male and they forgot to notify me, but even if anyone can provide 50 brasilian girls who changed back...so what...your generalization is groundless TSNTX since there are so many girls in Brasil to begin with those 50 would represent like 0.1% of the total head count of Brasilian trannies.

[odelay24]

I don't know if it's worth noting, but Brazilian society is one of heteronormativity, so it would be more acceptable to be trans than gay.


Oh and in the case of Lisa Lawer, I think it's obvious that the reason she went back was because she 'found God'.

[peggygee]

Travesti

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/travesti.jpg

As the author puts it, "I was riding [while visiting Salvador, Brazil] ... on a bus. ... I noticed a number of scantily-clad figures ... talking and laughing and clearly looking out for customers to pick them up for sex ... many of them seemed to lack breasts ... and their voices were definitely not women's. Although I had no plans to do fieldwork in Brazil ... the figures on the corners intrigued me."

The fact that the author is gay is an asset as he devotes a year to living with these prostitutes in one of the poorest sections of Salvador. He hangs out with the travesti (as they are called), records their conversations (many of which appear in the book verbatim), asks them pointed yet friendly questions, and tries to delve into their reality.

Early on, he learns that "Travesti find themselves obligated to continually reassert their rights to occupy urban space." Most of them share a common background: growing up with feminine sensibilities, having an early homoerotic experience (being penetrated), being kicked out or rejected by parents, accidentally meeting a travesti, liking what they see, and joining the "life."

However, there's nothing romantic about the life. The travesti rob their clients, inject silicone and take hormones to make their bodies more womanlike, are beaten up, live in postage-stamp-size rooms, can only hold boyfriends by giving them money and gifts, get AIDS, grow old, sometimes become drug-addicted, and rarely have financial security. They steal from each other, fight over boyfriends, and feel unloved.

But author Kulick finds that they share a sharp perception of their reality (for one thing, they don't claim to be women). Also, they make much more money at prostitution than they would otherwise, sometimes enjoy their sexual experiences, and are able to express their femininity.

Yet, and here is where the book seems most valuable, the travesti phenomena is a result of Brazil's sexual mores and gender traditions. Despite the image many have of a free-spirited, wide-open Brazil (Carnival comes to mind), the everyday reality is much different. This is the Brazil where gays and lesbians are mostly underground, and heterosexuality is exalted. Yet, as everywhere, there are "regular" men who are turned on by women with cocks.

The author wonders why gender-bending takes the form of travesti in Brazil, where feminine men keep their penises and become prostitutes, while men with similar traits in the Northern Hemisphere often choose surgical sex changes. Perhaps it's because in Brazil gender is determined by whether one wants to penetrate or be penetrated, while up north gender is usually determined by whether one has a penis or a vagina.

Contradictions abound. Travesti have penises, but despise men who act like women. If a live-in boyfriend asks (after having been the penetrator in the sex act) to be penetrated by a travesti, he is typically cast out. The show has been ruined.

Kulick's descriptions of travesti injecting silicone -- as much as several liters -- is bound to turn a few stomachs.

The author takes issue with some other sociologists' takes on travesti and about prostitution in general. In particular, he is intrigued that travesti have found ways to exert power over their lives and their customers, and have found ways to exist in a threatening environment.

(Reviewer: Valory Gravois) (Copyright ©1999 by Alchemist/Light Publishing

http://www.alchemist-light.com/reviews/revf.htm

Travesti
Nonfiction by Don Kulick
Copyright 1998, 269 pages (with photographs)
University of Chicago Press
ISBN 0-226-46100-9

Capsule: Taking a sociologist's under-the-microscope approach, Don Kulick spends a year living among Brazilian homosexual, crossdressing prostitutes. He portrays them as a society-within-a-society, comes to some unconventional conclusions, and does a lot of thinking about Brazilian sexuality versus that of other countries.

[mbf]

bc the brasillian ones are only "TS" for the money/escort/porn scene... when theyve had enough they go back to being men.

hear, hear, the expert on Brazil ts matters is giving a free lecture. based on exactly what? the (in)famous Lisa Lawer-case? or your personal experience, as a white, young, middle class TS born and raised in an OECD country, probably not speaking portugese, never been to brazil not knowing any brazil tgirl personally (note: these are all assumptions, correct me if i am wrong) - is this a fien example of western arrogance or just sloppiness?

the fact that youre a ts yourself isnt a free ticket for posting unbased rubbish

and you dont know more about the brazil or thai ts-scene than the everage guy whio comes here.

[peggygee]

Carnival time for Brazil's female men


John Ryle
Monday March 9, 1998
Guardian Unlimited

The RuPaul lookalike in a lace microskirt plying his trade on the Avenida Augusto Severo in downtown Rio is one of the wonders of the world. His eyelashes are like spider's webs; his hair, straightened and dyed, tumbles to his shoulders; his decolletage would put Pamela Anderson to shame. And there are others. They are wearing satin hot-pants, leather bikinis and denim cut-offs, carmine lipstick and six-inch heels: all the dress-sense of international hookerdom.

Cross dressing is cross cultural, maybe universal, but the startling visibility of travestis on the streets of Rio and other Brazilian cities is unique. They are easier to find than female prostitutes, easier than hustlers, or drug dealers, or agents of the illegal numbers game, easiest to find of all purveyors of illicit pleasures. In Brazil, travestis and their clientele are a more-or-less acknowledged part of the economy of desire.
During carnival in Rio, men en travesti are highly visible, on the street, in the pages of glossy magazines, and on the floats of some minor samba schools. There are even carnival groups that parade entirely in drag. These are mostly amateurs, though, out for the day. They would not want to be called travestis, a word that, in Brazilian Portuguese, normally implies a sex worker. For professional travestis the partial inversion of social order that is one of the features of carnival - and the unrestrained pursuit of pleasure that accompanies it - are a year-round phenomenon. For them it's a business.

And what exactly do their clients want? The travestis, it has been argued, shape themselves deliberately in the image of the sexual fantasies of their patrons, the respectably-dressed middle-aged men peering out of the windows of shiny cars that cruise along the avenue where they are on parade. By this interpretation they are not freaks; they are walking embodiments of the perverse desires of these patrons, soi-disant straight men.

A poor gay boy from the boondocks doesn't have a lot of choices in Brazil; becoming a travesti is one - dangerous but glamorous. One or two travestis have jumped the ghetto, being courted by public figures and feted in the salons of Rio. Most, of course, have the hard lives of prostitutes anywhere. To play the role they must have adapted themselves to painful and sometimes life-threatening surgical procedures, often self-administered.

Hormones and injections of silicone simulate female secondary characteristics. Nips and tucks do the rest. What travestis do not go in for are sex-change operations. Such operations are illegal anyway in Brazil, despite its reputation as the world capital of cosmetic surgery. But this is not why travestis don't go the whole way; it is because, by their account - and there is no other available source of information - their clients are looking for a sexual partner who is neither male nor female, but a paradoxical combination of the two, a sexual chimera, a fantasy of polymorphous perversity, with the look and feel of the feminine and the penetrative capacity of the male.

Travestis - those I've spoken to and those few who have spoken or written on the subject for publication - say that most of their clients want to take the passive role in sex, but with someone who is visibly a women. Travestis are thus, in the blunter language of Boogie Nights, the film about the porn industry in California, chicks with dicks.

There's a book about this, just published in Brazil, called Erotic Engineering, an assemblage of photographs and interviews with travestis - and one or two of their mothers. I was sitting on the plane home reading it. It's a curious book, halfway between a medical text and a chat-show transcript, with pictures to make your eyebrow stud rattle. It certainly kept my neighbours elbow of the armrest.

I found myself reflecting on the wider field of body modification, another cultural universal. We have had castratos. And female genital mutilation. We have body piercing and cosmetic surgery. We have anorexia. If travestis are particularly shocking, it is because cross-dressing in Anglo-Saxon countries has been publicly domesticated as a form of stage entertainment. Only in Brazil, where sex is theatre, has it become a particular species of debauchery. The lives of travestis are as difficult as those of prostitutes anywhere. But they manage to make something spectacular out of the frequently grim constrains of their existence.

[LG]

Interesting stuff, Peggy. I think I've seen the Guardian article before. But I think we need to make a distinction between what we define as transsexuals and the travesti. I would guess that a more correct translation of 'travesti' would be 'transvestite' or even 'crossdresser' as the travesti do not identify themselves as women and do not intend to go through transformation. Some may take hormones but I doubt many have any surgery.

I have heard the word 'boneca' (which means 'doll') being used for TSs in Brazil but don't know if this is the word most commonly used and how clearly the Brazilians define between TV and TS.

I would be keen to hear what more of our Brazilian friends and those who have experience of the industry in Brazil have to say about this.

[Kabuki]

Obviously, praetor could offer some real insight here. I know I'm curious to hear what he has to say. As an individual from the states, I know I can't address the topic. I've heard certain opinions before this thread was created. I would like to hear some facts on the subject, or studies to support individual views though.

[tsntx]

bc the brasillian ones are only "TS" for the money/escort/porn scene... when theyve had enough they go back to being men.

hear, hear, the expert on Brazil ts matters is giving a free lecture. based on exactly what? the (in)famous Lisa Lawer-case? or your personal experience, as a white, young, middle class TS born and raised in an OECD country, probably not speaking portugese, never been to brazil not knowing any brazil tgirl personally (note: these are all assumptions, correct me if i am wrong) - is this a fien example of western arrogance or just sloppiness?

the fact that youre a ts yourself isnt a free ticket for posting unbased rubbish

and you dont know more about the brazil or thai ts-scene than the everage guy whio comes here.

i happen to know 4 so you jerk offs can talk all the crap you want... i didnt say ALL... i didnt claim to be the know all and as usual peggy posted a relevant article that only further BACKED what i said up... so keep dreaming you jackasses that have met 1 ts if any at all know what the fuck your talking about... w/ the exception of dj... but that still doesnt mean just bc there is one well known case shes the only.

[LG]

Obviously, praetor could offer some real insight here. I know I'm curious to hear what he has to say. As an individual from the states, I know I can't address the topic. I've heard certain opinions before this thread was created. I would like to hear some facts on the subject, or studies to support individual views though.

I agree. The guys on the ground know a lot more than we do, however hard we research and read on this.

[tsntx]

Interesting stuff, Peggy. I think I've seen the Guardian article before. But I think we need to make a distinction between what we define as transsexuals and the travesti. I would guess that a more correct translation of 'travesti' would be 'transvestite' or even 'crossdresser' as the travesti do not identify themselves as women and do not intend to go through transformation. Some may take hormones but I doubt many have any surgery.

I have heard the word 'boneca' (which means 'doll') being used for TSs in Brazil but don't know if this is the word most commonly used and how clearly the Brazilians define between TV and TS.

I would be keen to hear what more of our Brazilian friends and those who have experience of the industry in Brazil have to say about this.


trying to make that example stick tho LG is like taking the thai and misc race CD's that some websites that advertise around these parts put up as "transexuals" ... a boy in drag does not a woman make... usually the men say on here that if it takes hormones, has changed its bodyshape, looks "fem"... its a girl / ts... therefore my posts and peggys travesti article breaks down to "brasaillian transexuals *NOT AS A WHOLE* revert back to being men... not always... but some do... not just one or two as you guys would like to think.

[rick_932]

thanks for the articles peggy, interesting stuff. im thinking about picking up that travesti book now

[Vicki Richter]

Interesting stuff, Peggy. I think I've seen the Guardian article before. But I think we need to make a distinction between what we define as transsexuals and the travesti. I would guess that a more correct translation of 'travesti' would be 'transvestite' or even 'crossdresser' as the travesti do not identify themselves as women and do not intend to go through transformation. Some may take hormones but I doubt many have any surgery.

I have heard the word 'boneca' (which means 'doll') being used for TSs in Brazil but don't know if this is the word most commonly used and how clearly the Brazilians define between TV and TS.

I would be keen to hear what more of our Brazilian friends and those who have experience of the industry in Brazil have to say about this.

I disagree with what you are saying. I think any TS who thinks she is a woman is dillussional. We're not women. We may identify as female, but I think, for the most part, we are aware that we never will be. Fake vagina, body chemistry, etc. From what I am reading, there is no difference between travesti and some of the girls who street walk on Santa Monica - or even through eros. Girls will live 20 years as a female with a penis and still not have plans for SRS. Does that make them a transvestite? No. I've asserted before, that it makes us something else. That is why I am fond of the "shemale" classification.

At least with a shemale you know what you are getting. It's a girl with a dick.

I mean Jen - when is your SRS scheduled? Jennifer - when is your SRS scheduled? TS are supposed to abhor their penises. However, like Travesti, more and more girls are living in the USA for many many years with boobs and penises. How are we all that different? Obviously there are cultural and social class things about them, but I am sure if any of us sat down with these girls that we would see an immediate and blatant difference. I know a famous USA TS pornstar from the 80's who went back to living as a man. We are no so very different here.

Seanchai - being as honest as possible, do you really see the Brazil girls so differently than the girls who goto Peanuts or any other TS for that matter.

I will have SRS someday, but not because I think I will magically become a woman, but because it will make my life a bit more normal and balanced in some respects.

[LG]

trying to make that example stick tho LG is like taking the thai and misc race CD's that some websites that advertise around these parts put up as "transexuals" ... a boy in drag does not a woman make... usually the men say on here that if it takes hormones, has changed its bodyshape, looks "fem"... its a girl / ts... therefore my posts and peggys travesti article breaks down to "brasaillian transexuals *NOT AS A WHOLE* revert back to being men... not always... but some do... not just one or two as you guys would like to think.

I'm not disagreeing that it happens. I just feel we should generalise.


I disagree with what you are saying. I think any TS who thinks she is a woman is dillussional. We're not women. We may identify as female, but I think, for the most part, we are aware that we never will be. Fake vagina, body chemistry, etc. From what I am reading, there is no difference between travesti and some of the girls who street walk on Santa Monica - or even through eros. Girls will live 20 years as a female with a penis and still not have plans for SRS. Does that make them a transvestite? No. I've asserted before, that it makes us something else. That is why I am fond of the "shemale" classification.

At least with a shemale you know what you are getting. It's a girl with a dick.

I know what you are Vicki, and if I didn't respect that and wasn't intrigued by it I probably wouldn't spend so much time here. But in a word of black and white, most girls here would consider themselves female rather than male.

That said, many transgirls have an aversion to the word "shemale" and I do not use it for this reason. It is, as far as I know, a porn industry term. I'm not saying that transgirls should have plans for SRS, but many girls feel strongly that a decision needs to be made between full time TSs and TVs/ CDs etc.

Having read your post, I think you might be keen to catch up and contribute to the discussion here which deals with the uniqueness of "the third sex":
http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=21338

[tsntx]

i have no issues w/ my unfeminine boy parts, in fact i quite like it and get a lot of use from it.... like you said about getting it down the road to get some normalcy out of your life... that may be where i go but as i see it now... thats just too far in the future to think about or worry myself about. to the statement about ts who think they are women.. i agree w/ you there as well... i identify as a female but im not a woman. i am however a trans-woman and i cant imagine anything greater for myself.

[Vicki Richter]

I think identification and self-realization are two different things. I identify as female, but I realize that I am not.

I would be willing to bet that MOST Travesti feel the same way. They are just more forward as a society in respects to transsexuals.

[tsntx]

I think identification and self-realization are two different things. I identify as female, but I realize that I am not.

i agree w/ that and i think for the most part most SANE or at least "not completely jaded" ts think that as well


They are just more forward as a society in respects to transsexuals.


i dont think the brasillian society is in any respects more foward then american / UK societies.

[peggygee]

Interesting stuff, Peggy. I think I've seen the Guardian article before. But I think we need to make a distinction between what we define as transsexuals and the travesti.


I would guess that a more correct translation of 'travesti' would be 'transvestite' or even 'crossdresser' as the travesti do not identify themselves as women and do not intend to go through transformation. Some may take hormones but I doubt many have any surgery.




The long historical use of the English word “transvestite” seriously complicates efforts at communication and translation across language barriers. The reason is that it is easily confused with the word “travesti”, which is used in many Romance languages (Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, etc.).

In the Portuguese and Spanish-speaking worlds, the word “travesti” has long been used to refer to gender-variant males (just as “transvestite” was long used in the English speaking world). However, “travesti” has a very different meaning in the Romance languages than “transvestite” has in English.

Instead of referring to heterosexual crossdressers ( “transvestites”), “travestis” refers to young gender transitioners who are attracted to men, who feminize their bodies and partly transition (usually without genital surgery) and who historically have worked in the sex trade. Thus “travesti” is best translated into the word “she-male” (although that word has a negative connotation in English).

For more information, see the section about the travestis in Lynn's TS information page (see also the specifics of French translations). Meantime, the complexity and impact of the confusions surrounding just these three words (transvestite, crossdresser, travesti) exposes the larger difficulties of overall communication about gender variance across languages and cultures.

(v) Travestis (“She-males”) and Similar Composite Gender Identities

In most large cities in the Americas and in many seaport cities around the world, there exists a large but more or less underground community of transgender women who work predominantly in the so-called sex industry, i.e. prostitution, strip clubs, pornography, etc.

This has long been an option for a “landing zone” for gender-variant youngsters who have been thrown away or run out by their families. Lacking education, identification papers and any other form of social support – this at least provides them with a means of economic survival.

In a few cases, these kids may become well-paid as call girls, and talented and pretty ones may go on to earn good money for a while as entertainers. However, many live very marginalized lives in the ghettoes of the big cities.

In the English-speaking world there is no consensus about a name for these girls and women. They may be called, or may call themselves, “she-males” or “street trannies”, while others call themselves transgender or transsexual women and may identify as such (even though some follow different life-trajectories than most trans women).

Although "she-male" is considered a derogatory term in some circles (and sometimes used to insult preop trans women), the word is being reclaimed as a good way for some gender-variant people to describe their identities. Internet she-male pornography has also made many people aware of the beauty and sensuality of these women, thus helping the word seem less defamatory and more exotic instead.

In countries where Romance languages are spoken, the universal term for such a person is “travesti.” This term should NOT be confused with the English word “transvestite” (which instead means a heterosexual male crossdresser). Given the recent surge in immigration from Latin America to the U.S., the term “travesti” is sometimes heard even here, as a substitute for “she-male”.

In common with TG and TS women, travestis and she-males generally undertake a full-time transition away from a male gender identity, but under the traditions of their communities (and often lacking funds for more aggressive transformations) many usually do not go as far as to adopt a fully female identity and physicality.

To outside appearances these women often look very feminine and behave accordingly, but many may not actually claim to be women or claim a feminine gender identity. Not fitting cleanly in their own minds into either of the two main gender boxes, they may sometimes refer to themselves as a “third sex (or gender)” or as “other.”

Such intermediate gender identities develop in parallel with the modifications that the travestis (she-males) make to their physicality. They often go to great lengths to attain the most female body possible, with the critical exception of retaining functional male genitalia. Indeed, while many do use female hormones, others limit or avoid hormone use in order to maintain standard male sexual function, and thus are dependent on cosmetic surgery and/or silicone injections in order to feminize their bodies. Ordinarily the sexual partners of these women are male, but it may be unclear whether the partners’ sexuality should be characterized as gay, straight, or something else (or whether it should be "labeled" at all).

It remains to be seen whether this general group represents a stable gender identity in the long run. Some of the young ones no longer limit themselves to a lifetime of work in the sex industry, and some are avoiding it altogether – especially as advocacy groups and enlightened health services reach out to them in some cities (notably in San Francisco, CA). Some also shift onto other transgender trajectories - including more fully transitioning as trans women and then assimilating into society.

However, in Latin America (and especially in Brazil, where this group has been much more highly-visible and well-established for a much longer time), there is evidence that they do form a coherent group of people with an adopted identity that is neither strictly masculine nor feminine, but rather is a composite of the two. In many cases this composite gender—as opposed merely to an occupational choice—is at the heart of the travestis’ identity, and is a source of fulfillment and great pride to them.

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Words%20for%20Gender%20Variance.html

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TS.html#v

[LG]

That's interesting Peggy. The whole idea of a "third sex" ties up with discussion we had on the berdache and the kathoeys and ladyboys of Thailand and the PI.

By the way, I don't think one can generalise on TVs as being "hetero male crossdressers". I would think there is a difference (fine as it may be) between TV and CD and would also suggest that TVs do not necessarily bat for one team or the other (indeed, some are bisexual, are they not?).

[Dkg]

Travesti

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/travesti.jpg



However, there's nothing romantic about the life. The travesti rob their clients, inject silicone and take hormones to make their bodies more womanlike, are beaten up, live in postage-stamp-size rooms, can only hold boyfriends by giving them money and gifts, get AIDS, grow old, sometimes become drug-addicted, and rarely have financial security. They steal from each other, fight over boyfriends, and feel unloved.



That's pretty sad. I really feel sorry for them.

[mbf]

bc the brasillian ones are only "TS" for the money/escort/porn scene... when theyve had enough they go back to being men.

hear, hear, the expert on Brazil ts matters is giving a free lecture. based on exactly what? the (in)famous Lisa Lawer-case? or your personal experience, as a white, young, middle class TS born and raised in an OECD country, probably not speaking portugese, never been to brazil not knowing any brazil tgirl personally (note: these are all assumptions, correct me if i am wrong) - is this a fien example of western arrogance or just sloppiness?

the fact that youre a ts yourself isnt a free ticket for posting unbased rubbish

and you dont know more about the brazil or thai ts-scene than the everage guy whio comes here.

i happen to know 4 so you jerk offs can talk all the crap you want... i didnt say ALL... i didnt claim to be the know all and as usual peggy posted a relevant article that only further BACKED what i said up... so keep dreaming you jackasses that have met 1 ts if any at all know what the fuck your talking about... w/ the exception of dj... but that still doesnt mean just bc there is one well known case shes the only.

you can call me jackass and jerkoff ten times i stand by my words and its a fact. you dont know nothing about the brazil ts scene. the article, as i have read it, stated that many travestis or bonecas or whatever name is beeing used start at gay boys. i havent read much about the reverting process there.

i havent said i know anything about ts in brazil or anywhere else. you did and you assume that i did. WRONG. read what i wrote not what you like to read so you can get all aggressive again.

and i guess you assume that i care if they in fact went back beeing a guy? wrong again. i couldnt care less. its their life, they can have four tits, three balls and two pussies.

what i dont like is generalisation and that "oh we in the western world know so much cuz we have tv, the net and live in the information age" attitude.

anyways, this thread has probably taken the right direction via asking or requesting information form people ACTUALLY LIVING THERE.

[calebshung]

Is it a cultural thing? I have noticed that many TS girls from the US, Asia, Mexico, Europe etc., have an Orchidectomy to enhance femininity, hairlessness etc., but the Brazilian girls seem to always have intact balls. Just wondering if anyone had info or opinion on this.

I think a super feminine TS with an "orchy" is a huge turn on. Like the amazing and flawless "Madison".
i did not know that

[peggygee]

Travesti

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/travesti.jpg



However, there's nothing romantic about the life. The travesti rob their clients, inject silicone and take hormones to make their bodies more womanlike, are beaten up, live in postage-stamp-size rooms, can only hold boyfriends by giving them money and gifts, get AIDS, grow old, sometimes become drug-addicted, and rarely have financial security. They steal from each other, fight over boyfriends, and feel unloved.



That's pretty sad. I really feel sorry for them.

Equally sad, is that many times the same set of events
occurs domestically as well.

[peggygee]

That's interesting Peggy. The whole idea of a "third sex" ties up with discussion we had on the berdache and the kathoeys and ladyboys of Thailand and the PI.

By the way, I don't think one can generalise on TVs as being "hetero male crossdressers". I would think there is a difference (fine as it may be) between TV and CD and would also suggest that TVs do not necessarily bat for one team or the other (indeed, some are bisexual, are they not?).

Transvestite is the medical / psychological term.
Cross dresser is the term used by the layperson.

While there are no hard and fast rules for the the sex object
choice of the transvestite, they tend to be statistically
heterosexual.

Again I defer to Benjamin;

Type Two: Transvestism (Fetishistic)
Gender Feeling: Masculine
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Lives as a man. Dressing periodically or
part of the time. Dresses underneath male clothes.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Heterosexual. Rarely bisexual.
Masturbation with fetish. Guilt feelings. Purges and relapses.
Kinsey Scale: 0-2
Conversion Operation: Rejected
Estrogen Medication: Rarely interested. Occasionally useful to reduce
libido. Psychotherapy: May be successful (in a favorable environment.)
Remarks: May imitate double (masculine and feminine) personality with
male and female names.

Type Three: Transvestism (True)
Gender Feeling: Masculine (but with less conviction.)
Dressing Habits and Social Life: Dresses constantly or as often as
possible. May live and be accepted as woman. May dress underneath
male clothes, if no other chance.
Sex Object Choice and Sex Life: Heterosexual, except when dressed.
Dressing gives sexual satisfaction with relief of gender discomfort. May
purge and relapse.
Kinsey Scale: 0-2
Conversion Operation: Actually rejected, but idea can be attractive.
Estrogen Medication: Attractive as an experiment. Can be helpful
emotionally Psychotherapy: If attempted is usually not successful as
to cure.
Remarks: May assume double personality. Trend toward transsexualism.

[peggygee]

That's interesting Peggy. The whole idea of a "third sex" ties up with discussion we had on the berdache and the kathoeys and ladyboys of Thailand and the PI.



A side note;

In Pornography the term 'Shemale' (along with tranny, ladyboy
and "chick with a dick") is commonly, used in pornography and the sex
industry; videos and magazines involving such people are a common sub-
genre of pornography. It is often seen by transsexual people as a
powerful term of abuse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lwollert/Shemale

The more politically correct term for kathoey is sao (or phuying) praphet
song ("a second kind of woman"), or phet thee sam (third sex).

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/pc_police_image.jpg

[LG]

I think there is a clear distinction between the two types as identified by Benjamin. I would suggest that many people might say that CDs to just one grouping. Although naturally TVs cross-dress, I'd say that not all TVs define as cross-dressers.

The question is "why does a cross-dresser cross-dress?" Is it for sexual satisfaction, is it because they feel comfortable in women's clothing, is it because they identify more with women than men? There are many reasons why one would choose to do it and I don't think it's fair to lump them all together.

I think Benjamin was on to something, but even his years of research cannot amount to the experience of just one person who has gone through these things. If we could put research aside for a little while (and as a researcher I also find that very difficult), I'd like to see what people actually believe on the issue and what the opinions of the guys and girls here are (including the TVs here).

That said, your post is well thought-out and well-written as always,

LG

[Rod la Rod]

As someone who grew up in the L.A. Hollywood Tranny scene in the Late 70's and 80's I have know many TS's that have gone back to their male persona.

Can anyone name a TS who has been on the scene turning tricks for 10-15 years or so and is still around and healthy?

What is the longevity of the average beautiful young TS in Hollywood or any large city? What happens when you turn 40 and turning tricks or doing porn is no longer an option.

[Dkg]

Travesti

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/travesti.jpg



However, there's nothing romantic about the life. The travesti rob their clients, inject silicone and take hormones to make their bodies more womanlike, are beaten up, live in postage-stamp-size rooms, can only hold boyfriends by giving them money and gifts, get AIDS, grow old, sometimes become drug-addicted, and rarely have financial security. They steal from each other, fight over boyfriends, and feel unloved.



That's pretty sad. I really feel sorry for them.

Equally sad, is that many times the same set of events
occurs domestically as well.

almost makes me want to go out and do something about it.....but then I start thinking about that project pat song "don't save her"

[taniatv]

I consider myself and describe myself as a transvestite (at this time), this is simply because I haven't had any surgery yet and I'm not taking hormones.

The word transvestite is Latin the actual translation is trans - 'cross' vestite - 'dresser' but to me being a transvestite is the first step on the ladder to becoming what I ultimately want: physically female.

The term cross dressing, for me at least doesn't come close. I consider some of the guys I see who want to wear a dress, panties or nylons in a session to be cross dressers. Once these guys cum their female aspirations are done. I believe that for transvestites the need and desire to be in female garb and mode is much deeper than a sexual fantasy and for me personally like I already said it's the first step.

All the Transsexuals in the world had to have been a transvestite at one point. Before hormones and surgery they were technically transvestites. If they dressed and explored their feminine side with make-up etc. (which I'm sure they did) then at that point in their transformation they were transvestites there's no other description for it.


That's my opinion anyhows.

[tsntx]

bc the brasillian ones are only "TS" for the money/escort/porn scene... when theyve had enough they go back to being men.

hear, hear, the expert on Brazil ts matters is giving a free lecture. based on exactly what? the (in)famous Lisa Lawer-case? or your personal experience, as a white, young, middle class TS born and raised in an OECD country, probably not speaking portugese, never been to brazil not knowing any brazil tgirl personally (note: these are all assumptions, correct me if i am wrong) - is this a fien example of western arrogance or just sloppiness?

the fact that youre a ts yourself isnt a free ticket for posting unbased rubbish

and you dont know more about the brazil or thai ts-scene than the everage guy whio comes here.

i happen to know 4 so you jerk offs can talk all the crap you want... i didnt say ALL... i didnt claim to be the know all and as usual peggy posted a relevant article that only further BACKED what i said up... so keep dreaming you jackasses that have met 1 ts if any at all know what the fuck your talking about... w/ the exception of dj... but that still doesnt mean just bc there is one well known case shes the only.

you can call me jackass and jerkoff ten times i stand by my words and its a fact. you dont know nothing about the brazil ts scene. the article, as i have read it, stated that many travestis or bonecas or whatever name is beeing used start at gay boys. i havent read much about the reverting process there.

i havent said i know anything about ts in brazil or anywhere else. you did and you assume that i did. WRONG. read what i wrote not what you like to read so you can get all aggressive again.

and i guess you assume that i care if they in fact went back beeing a guy? wrong again. i couldnt care less. its their life, they can have four tits, three balls and two pussies.

what i dont like is generalisation and that "oh we in the western world know so much cuz we have tv, the net and live in the information age" attitude.

anyways, this thread has probably taken the right direction via asking or requesting information form people ACTUALLY LIVING THERE.

like i said loser i know 4 "girls" personally that did it... so keep talkin your talk about how YOU dont know personally... and ill keep telling you i DO.. i didnt say ALL ... get a grip on something other then your cock and the mouse you keep clicking on idiot.

[hondarobot]

Interesting stuff, Peggy. I think I've seen the Guardian article before. But I think we need to make a distinction between what we define as transsexuals and the travesti. I would guess that a more correct translation of 'travesti' would be 'transvestite' or even 'crossdresser' as the travesti do not identify themselves as women and do not intend to go through transformation. Some may take hormones but I doubt many have any surgery.

I have heard the word 'boneca' (which means 'doll') being used for TSs in Brazil but don't know if this is the word most commonly used and how clearly the Brazilians define between TV and TS.

I would be keen to hear what more of our Brazilian friends and those who have experience of the industry in Brazil have to say about this.

I disagree with what you are saying. I think any TS who thinks she is a woman is dillussional. We're not women. We may identify as female, but I think, for the most part, we are aware that we never will be. Fake vagina, body chemistry, etc. From what I am reading, there is no difference between travesti and some of the girls who street walk on Santa Monica - or even through eros. Girls will live 20 years as a female with a penis and still not have plans for SRS. Does that make them a transvestite? No. I've asserted before, that it makes us something else. That is why I am fond of the "shemale" classification.

At least with a shemale you know what you are getting. It's a girl with a dick.

I mean Jen - when is your SRS scheduled? Jennifer - when is your SRS scheduled? TS are supposed to abhor their penises. However, like Travesti, more and more girls are living in the USA for many many years with boobs and penises. How are we all that different? Obviously there are cultural and social class things about them, but I am sure if any of us sat down with these girls that we would see an immediate and blatant difference. I know a famous USA TS pornstar from the 80's who went back to living as a man. We are no so very different here.

Seanchai - being as honest as possible, do you really see the Brazil girls so differently than the girls who goto Peanuts or any other TS for that matter.

I will have SRS someday, but not because I think I will magically become a woman, but because it will make my life a bit more normal and balanced in some respects.

Heh. Vicki Richter throws out the term "fake vagina", meanders around a bit, then posts that she's getting SRS anyways because that will make her feel more "normal".

But you "know what your getting" with a "shemale". . . I thought the whole point was it didn't matter if a girl had a dick or a vagina, but then it suddenly becomes important again, and then not.

It's the psychological equivalent of watching clothes spin in a dryer.

[hondarobot]

What happened? I thought Vicki Richter liked playing games.

8)