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LG
06-04-2007, 11:12 PM
I think the tide might be turning. Here is another positive development.

Anti-discrimination law applies to transgendered
Herald News

Monday, June 4, 2007
By ANDREA GURWITT
HERALD NEWS

It comes too late to help Carol Barlow, but she certainly could have used it.

Could have invoked it when she got fired.

Could have pointed to it when the job interviewer laughed in her face.

Could have sued after, she says, her boss said, "When you become Carol or whatever the hell you're doing, you're out of there."

Because Carol Barlow used to be Bruce Barlow. And first Bruce, and then Carol, suffered harassment, indignities and discrimination at one job and then another, and still more on innumerable job interviews.

Well, that won't cut it anymore.

Starting June 17, it will be illegal under state law for businesses to discriminate against Carol Barlow and any other transgender person. New Jersey's anti-discrimination law, already one of the most far-reaching in the country, will add "gender identity and expression" to its list of protected categories for employment, housing, public accommodation, credit and business contracts.

The legislation, passed in December, makes New Jersey the ninth state with a transgender law.

Vermont, Oregon, Iowa and Colorado passed similar laws this year, but they won't take effect until mid summer.

This latest amendment to the New Jersey Law Against Discrimination means it will be illegal for employers to not hire, not promote, not give a raise to, or to harass or fire an employee because she or he is transgender.

"It's not going to affect me but for the people who come after me it will mean a lot," says Barlow , who lives in Clifton. "I hope this law gets rid of some of the fear that our people have."

Barlow , who once did computer support work for the Herald News, is 61 now and nearing retirement. But she worked on the amendment anyway, agreeing to be featured in a 2005 television commercial that urged lawmakers to pass the bill.

The transgender category in the law covers transsexuals -- people born one sex who live as a member of the opposite sex and may have had sex reassignment surgery; cross dressers -- people who dress as the opposite sex sometimes; and androgynous people -- those whose gender is ambiguous.

The new law "is a big deal and it isn't a big deal," says Leslie Farber, a lawyer in Montclair who specializes in job discrimination cases.

Not a big deal because it codifies a decision made in 2001 by the state's Appellate Division. In that case, the court ruled that an employer's refusal to renew a medical director's contract as he was changing from a man to a woman violated the law against sex discrimination.

"We applauded that (2001) decision but we soon found out it really wasn't good enough because no one knew about it," says Barbra Casbar, president of the Gender Rights Advocacy Association of New Jersey, which worked to pass the amendment.

And that's why Farber thinks this is a big deal. Because starting June 17, transgender people will be included in that sign posted in every workplace explaining to employees that it is illegal for their employer to discriminate because of race, creed, age, nationality, marital status, domestic partnership, sexual orientation and now gender identity or expression.

"A statute has much more authority than an interpretation," says Steven Goldstein, chairman of Garden State Equality, another group that helped to pass the amendment. "Transgender people can say, 'Look, there's a law on the books.' They don't have to say, 'There was a court case that interpreted...' blah, blah, blah."

The Law Against Discrimination was enacted in 1945, and was the first state civil rights statute in the country, according to Frank Vespa-Papaleo, director of the state's Division on Civil Rights. It included race, creed, color, origin and national ancestry under its umbrella. Since then the law has been amended "probably hundreds of times," Vespa-Papaleo says, including in 1972 when it was expanded to include people with disabilities, a full 18 years before the federal government passed the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Lawyers don't see the new amendment that includes transgender people as posing a problem for employers.

But one area that may be murky is the legal interpretation of "discrimination," says Julie Greenberg, a law professor at Thomas Jefferson School of Law in San Diego, Calif., and an expert in legal issues surrounding sexual identity and orientation.

Could businesses be violating the rights of transgender employees by telling them they must use the bathroom or locker room of their sex at birth?

"Part of the problem of bathroom use is other's objecting," Greenberg says. Workers feeling like their privacy has been breached and complaining to their bosses.

A case like that arose in Minnesota, which has a similar statute. In 2001 the state Supreme Court found that an employer was not violating the anti-discrimination law by making a policy in which employees must use the bathrooms of their birth sex. The suit had been brought by a transgender worker who identified as female and had a state court declare him legally female. Female coworkers complained when their colleague used the women's bathroom, and in response the company made the policy.

There is a movement among transgender people to install unisex bathrooms in workplaces and public buildings to avoid just such a problem.

"The one thing I think we all strive for is respect," Casbar says.

Download the poster at www.njcivilrights.org. Click on the red box marked "Anti-discrimination posters." Posters are available in English and Spanish.

What you should know

Employers:
The New Jersey Division of Civil Rights Web site has updated the Law Against Discrimination posters required forevery employer to display. It now includes the "gender identity and expression" to its list of protected classes.

Employees:
If you feel you are being discriminated against you have two options, says Frank Vespa-Papaleo, director of the state Division on Civil Rights.

You may file a lawsuit in State Superior Court, or visit the office of the Division on Civil Rights at 100 Hamilton Plaza, 8th floor. The telephone number is 973-977-4500. The Paterson office covers Passaic, Bergen and Morris counties.

JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel
06-04-2007, 11:15 PM
and I thought McGreevey becoming an Episcopalian priest was bad....................

TJ347
06-04-2007, 11:19 PM
Now if NJ could do something about its outrageous property taxes and auto insurance costs...

Azanti
06-04-2007, 11:22 PM
One word on that job:

GOOD

Ecstatic
06-04-2007, 11:26 PM
Thanks for posting that, LG. That was a post worthy of Peggy!

TomSelis
06-04-2007, 11:27 PM
Jersey legislature has always been progressive about this kind of stuff. Allowing civil unions, now this....there's also a fair number of corporations that hire transexual employees. Verizon and Cingular, right off the top of my head.

TJ347
06-04-2007, 11:31 PM
Jersey legislature has always been progressive about this kind of stuff. Allowing civil unions, now this....there's also a fair number of corporations that hire transexual employees. Verizon and Cingular, right off the top of my head.

You're definitely right about that. I work for Verizon, that's why when some of the escorts were talking about how they couldn't find legitimate work, I was thinking WTF? I don't know how many transsexuals work for the company, but I know of three in the Newark, NJ area, and transsexual employees also have their own intracompany organization as well, and have since at least 1999, I believe...

mph
06-04-2007, 11:41 PM
I knew New Jersey was good for something! ;P

peggygee
06-04-2007, 11:56 PM
Thanks for that news LG. 8)

The tide of the battle may indeed be turning.

Armed with what is already on the books, anti
discrimination laws may now have some teeth
in them.

Check out this thread for related material.

http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=15220&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

And if you are seeking employment, this may be helpful.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/needajob.jpg

http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=16294&start=0

LG
06-05-2007, 12:01 AM
Peggy, you're welcome. And thank you for reminding us of those threads. That second one could be pretty useful for some girls.

SarahG
06-05-2007, 12:10 AM
....I work for Verizon, that's why when some of the escorts were talking about how they couldn't find legitimate work, I was thinking WTF? I don't know how many transsexuals work for the company, but I know of three in the Newark, NJ area, and transsexual employees also have their own intracompany organization as well, and have since at least 1999, I believe...

Part of the equation so to speak is the fact that alot of companies won't touch an interviewee with a past/career/etc in certain fields with a 10ft pole, especially for certain positions... and thats not ts specific. I have known alot of ggs who were sex workers that, despite having degrees, could only find min wage type work because they wouldn't ever get past the interview process once they revealed why they had such large gaps in their resume from while they were working. So its one of those "once you start" things based on my observations. With the ggs I have known with such troubles... the best they could find would be min wage retail work or cashiering for gas stations which, if they wanted benefits (health insurance etc) usually ate away half their paychecks... depending where one lives, half of the fed min wage (meaning gross minus taxes & benefit costs) is hardly enough to live off of.

I suspect the experiences in terms of getting positions, is quite different between those who work in certain fields and those who started off in high paying white collar jobs. I also wouldn't be surprised if passiability is also part of the equation in who gets past the interviewee process for certain jobs. I think it is also very clear that the "community" by and large tends to only go activist for trans people facing discrimination while working in very specific types of employment. That girl in FL who lost her gov job was made to be a big deal (I am not intending to trivialize that kind of job discrimination by any means of the imagination) whereas far more discrimination horror stories (especially ones somehow linked to certain fields or positions) are given a blind eye. Appearances and class are an issue in alot more then we'd like to believe in issues like these... I can't help but be curious if Gwen's murder would have seen any media coverage whatsoever had it been some nonpassing girl who worked as a streetwalker in some innercity... (who am I kidding, I already know the answer to that one).

Your use of the term legitimate work makes me wonder how American employers would react to an interviewee who comes from a country/area where sex working is legal (when done threw the proper protocols). Many European countries have legalized prostitution... if someone worked as a prostitute where it was legal and then came to America (assuming legally) I would be most curious how it would impact finding "legitimate work" when compared to girls that have on their resumes essentially the same thing, only in a place that has such (IMO "legitimate") work as being illegal.

TJ347
06-05-2007, 12:27 AM
If I'm understanding you correctly, the issue here is my use of the word "legitimate". When I used that word, I was talking about what was legal in the US, and gave no thought to a person coming from overseas into the US who might seek employment. However, that situation does not change anything, because their lawful employment as an escort in their country of origin would still not be considered legitimate in the US, the country they in which they now reside. Someone who was an escort in Idaho, like someone who was an escort in the Netherlands, would both be seen in the same way by American employers, I should suspect.

peggygee
06-05-2007, 12:44 AM
....I work for Verizon, that's why when some of the escorts were talking about how they couldn't find legitimate work, I was thinking WTF? I don't know how many transsexuals work for the company, but I know of three in the Newark, NJ area, and transsexual employees also have their own intracompany organization as well, and have since at least 1999, I believe...

Part of the equation so to speak is the fact that alot of companies won't touch an interviewee with a past/career/etc in certain fields with a 10ft pole, especially for certain positions... and thats not ts specific. I have known alot of ggs who were sex workers that, despite having degrees, could only find min wage type work because they wouldn't ever get past the interview process once they revealed why they had such large gaps in their resume from while they were working.



So its one of those "once you start" things based on my observations. With the ggs I have known with such troubles... the best they could find would be min wage retail work or cashiering for gas stations which, if they wanted benefits (health insurance etc) usually ate away half their paychecks... depending where one lives, half of the fed min wage (meaning gross minus taxes & benefit costs) is hardly enough to live off of.

I suspect the experiences in terms of getting positions, is quite different between those who work in certain fields and those who started off in high paying white collar jobs. I also wouldn't be surprised if passiability is also part of the equation in who gets past the interviewee process for certain jobs. I think it is also very clear that the "community" by and large tends to only go activist for trans people facing discrimination while working in very specific types of employment. That girl in FL who lost her gov job was made to be a big deal (I am not intending to trivialize that kind of job discrimination by any means of the imagination) whereas far more discrimination horror stories (especially ones somehow linked to certain fields or positions) are given a blind eye. Appearances and class are an issue in alot more then we'd like to believe in issues like these... I can't help but be curious if Gwen's murder would have seen any media coverage whatsoever had it been some nonpassing girl who worked as a streetwalker in some innercity... (who am I kidding, I already know the answer to that one).

Your use of the term legitimate work makes me wonder how American employers would react to an interviewee who comes from a country/area where sex working is legal (when done threw the proper protocols). Many European countries have legalized prostitution... if someone worked as a prostitute where it was legal and then came to America (assuming legally) I would be most curious how it would impact finding "legitimate work" when compared to girls that have on their resumes essentially the same thing, only in a place that has such (IMO "legitimate") work as being illegal.

In terms of gaps in your resume; You could say that you were home
raising your child or taking care of an aging parent.

However if you have a number of arrests for pross, then yes that could
be problematic on a background check.

And you're right about the passing part, that definetely plays a part in
getting and keeping employment. If at all possible try to have as much
of your cosmetic work done, because it will impact upon your
marketability.

Class and types of occupations also are factors. If Stanton was a Latina,
fired from a Burger King in the Bronx, no one would have given two shits.

However, I still maintain that there are many jobs that are wiling to hire
transpeople, and that in fact there are a number of places that are seeking
transpeople specifically.

None, pay $300 an hour though. :shrug

SarahG
06-05-2007, 01:23 AM
If I'm understanding you correctly, the issue here is my use of the word "legitimate". When I used that word, I was talking about what was legal in the US...

The whole US? You're forgetting about Nevada outside of las Vegas....



, and gave no thought to a person coming from overseas into the US who might seek employment. However, that situation does not change anything, because their lawful employment as an escort in their country of origin would still not be considered legitimate in the US, the country they in which they now reside. Someone who was an escort in Idaho, like someone who was an escort in the Netherlands, would both be seen in the same way by American employers, I should suspect....

But the difference is that the girl in Idaho would be in violation of laws at the time and place... the girl from the Netherlands would be of a legal career in an other country. Suppose we're not talking sex; if a doctor in the US briefly works as an abortionist and goes to a country where it is illegal (say Ireland)- the doctor's career history will not be seen as illegitimate unless the position was done in Ireland in violation of Ireland's laws (I am assuming the doctor would no longer be practicing abortions when applying to a position in some Irish practice...).

This is not to say that a company would refuse all girls with such jobs on their resume... but I suspect it would be on the basis of public perception in terms of social norms moreso than legal legitimacy status. For instance, public and private k-12 schools generally are somewhat socially conservative when it comes to teachers (this isn't always the case; the superintendent for the district my mom went to in the 70s used to host wife swap parties- although it did gain media coverage locally because of it and thats not the type of publicity some institutions would want).

I can see some employers caring more about rather or not an interviewee has a past involving breaking laws on a regular basis then social norms such as legal employment in an other country...



In terms of gaps in your resume; You could say that you were home
raising your child or taking care of an aging parent.

Only if you're not up front about it, I would imagine odds would be that if they ever found out the truth... the employee would be let go. I guess it becomes a question of rather or not the interviewee is a gambler or not- does one lie and say something that would be safer at the time, or not risk being exposed at a later date?

peggygee
06-05-2007, 01:43 AM
Only if you're not up front about it, I would imagine odds would be that if they ever found out the truth... the employee would be let go. I guess it becomes a question of rather or not the interviewee is a gambler or not- does one lie and say something that would be safer at the time, or not risk being exposed at a later date?

There are jobs where your perceived moral turpitude could come into
play, teacher, working with children, etc.

Also if you have been escorting, have your own web site, Eros ads,
have been discussed here, and or are able to be Googled, then yes
that could be a problem

Employers are now Googling applicants, looking at their Myspace
accounts, for material that might preclude them from being hired.

The average job though for the most part isn't going to run an exhaustive
background check on you.

LG
06-05-2007, 10:04 AM
Employers are now Googling applicants, looking at their Myspace accounts, for material that might preclude them from being hired.

:shock:
Looking at their Myspace accounts? That sounds like a major case of discrimination and invasion of privacy.

But what if your Myspace account doesn't have your name on it? Can they ask Myspace to find it for them? Can they get Yahoo/Google/MSN to give them your email/messaging address? Can they also trace your online activities via your bank/credit card payments? This is getting much too '1984' for me...

Apart from a few jobs, I don't see how your private life or your past activities can be of any interest to them, anyway.

TomSelis
06-05-2007, 12:42 PM
The myspace thing does happen, I've seen that twice in the past couple of years.

hwbs
06-05-2007, 03:56 PM
what i dont understand about the myspace thing is .......

why would you put your full real name

why wouldnt you make up an emAil address just for myspace..

seems like it would be alot harder to find u...

LG
06-05-2007, 06:42 PM
what i dont understand about the myspace thing is .......

why would you put your full real name

why wouldnt you make up an emAil address just for myspace..

seems like it would be alot harder to find u...

Agree. If you want privacy you shouldn't divulge personal information on myspace. Then again, I think employers have no business checking up on your myspace activities.