SICKO

[Legend]

No i'm not talking about blackmagic but the documentary by micheal moore which exploits the healthcare buisness for what it is over here a corrupt buisness that over charges people i think moore hit it on the button with this one america is the richest country yet most people don't have heathcare.

[CockStroker]

No i'm not talking about blackmagic but the documentary by micheal moore which exploits the healthcare buisness for what it is over here a corrupt buisness that over charges people i think moore hit it on the button with this one america is the richest country yet most people don't have heathcare.

You can have general health care but it costs. In germany it's about 16 % of what you earn monthly. I don't know if the average US worker is ready to pay this much per month, so everyone can get health care?

[ILuvGurls]

No i'm not talking about blackmagic but the documentary by micheal moore which exploits the healthcare buisness for what it is over here a corrupt buisness that over charges people i think moore hit it on the button with this one america is the richest country yet most people don't have heathcare.

micheal moorehttp://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g14/duke1948/mf_208.jpg

[odelay24]

In Australia we have universal medicare.

It's not Canada, but hey, it's a hell of a lot better than the American system.

[GroobySteven]

The American Health Care Insurance system is probably the other big fraud played on the US people. It's a joke how transparant it is.

We pay $275 a month per person into healthcare yet are still expected to co-pay an amount. So when that same person recently collapsed and was taken to hospital, they were billed for the ambulance ride, the blood tests, the treatment, the stay in the hospital and the actual operation.

In theory that wouldn't be so bad - yet when you look at the ambulance ride ($3200) so the co-payment was $320, for less than 1/2 mile ride (a 1 mile round trip with no treatment administored) then right away the fraud is there.
The ambulance company billing astronomical amounts for a service that cost way less (big profit) and the insurance company passing on 10% to their user. The whole fucking ride should have been less than $320.

Then the other bills come in. Hospital stay is a $1000 a night (more than Waldorf Astoria and no hookers outside the front door?), etc, etc.,
A big rip off. This individuals total bill came to over $3000 for an operation which she needed to have (blood was forming in her stomach). She has health insurance and makes about $40k a year. How can she afford a $3000 bill on top of that?

Michael Moore fan or not. The US healthcare is ridiculously poor. The pushing of drugs before other treatment (money), the cancelling of insurance if you get too sick, increasing insurance if a business has too many sick employees. It's really pathetic.

seanchai

[tsafficianado]

Legend provides us with this useful factoid
>>america is the richest country yet most people don't have heathcare<<

odd. the US Census bureau reveals in its latest reports that 84.4% of americans are covered by health insurance.

as far as the 'superior' systems in australia and canada et al., imagine how wonderful those systems would be without the incorporation of the medical advances generated in the last 150 years in american medical research (and yes, french and swiss). they would certainly be less expensive assuming the price of leeches can be held under control.

the problem with healthcare in america is primarily related to the suicidal lifestyle americans pursue......30% of americans are obese or morbidly obese (and the problem is epidemic in pre-adults), and some 35% of americans are addicted to either/or/and alcohol, drugs, tobacco, and americans think watching football on tv is exercise. freeing the healthcare system from the necessity of repairing self-inflicted damage would free up enough resources to actually treat the ill. on top of that, medical advances in the last hundred years have boosted the life expectancy of americans by some 40% virtually creating a whole new class of diseases closely related to aging....alzheimer's, adult onset diabetes, adult onset leukemia, arterial disease, stroke and various cancers. if everyone over 60 was willing to visit an ESP this burden could also be reduced. chef?

[hondarobot]

A large part of the high cost of something like an ambulance ride or hospital stay is unavoidable. Medical care is a privilege and an optional service (which sounds cold, but it is). It's amazingly easy to seek litigation against medical assistance providers, and honestly it should be. If there wasn't a substantial financial risk involved in that sort of work, you'd see the industry filled with jerks who just like speeding around town with flashing lights and checking out head wounds.

A ride to the hospital should realistically cost much less than $50 by any means, even by cab. On the other hand, when the shit goes down, it's nice to be able to call an ambulance with trained professionals, who can be held accountable if they carelessly fuck things up. Insurance is the buffer zone that allows this line of work to be an option for people who realize they could very easily get their asses sued nearly every day.

Malpractice insurance is over priced. But then, an old woman spilling McDonalds coffee on her foot is over compensated. The system is admittedly pretty fucked by greed.

The fact that the system is high risk, and costly to research/implement/maintain is why medical insurance costs so much. Insurance of any sort is a legalized protection racket, but what ya gonna do?

I'm not defending the system, I just think where life/death is concerned, extreme checks and balances do play a major factor. It aint cheap, but it is a privilege and worth the money.

I think all medical care should be provided by the government, and the government should find better ways to generate capital then income tax. But I also think pancakes should be free on saturdays, unfortunately that hasn't happened yet either.


:shrug

[Jennifer_English]

We pay $275 a month per person into healthcare yet are still expected to co-pay an amount.

PLEASE say thats an exageration... $3200 for a ride....thats fucking ridiculous.. Im assuming that INCLUDES bypass surgery... ?? :lol:

[tsafficianado]

here's one for you....

saw a show on discovery health about an inner-city hospital which provided critical care for the indigent. one case involved a 20 year old thug who was shot in, i imagine, a dispute over a pair of $175 sneakers or someone dis-respecting him. he had no visible means of support (again i assume his profession was burglary, crack sales and car-jacking) so the citizens of the state were obliged to provide for his medical care. he had emergency room care, surgery, several days in intensive care, a couple of weeks in the hospital and weeks of rehabilitation therapy. this episode cost the state about $300,000. turns out this was his THIRD episode and his third shooting and by his 21st birthday the public healthcare system had spent well in excess of half a million dollars keeping this valuable citizen alive. he was a high-school dropout, a thug, had never earned a dime on SS payrolls and probably won't live long enough to do so. now you, being all liberal and stuff, i'm sure you would be appalled if this credit to humanity was given any less than the best medical care our system has to offer and can overlook the fact that he is a half-million dollar drain on a system to which he will probably never contribute. life is not fantasyland and absurd conspiracy theories aren't going to fix anything.

[Legend]

The American Health Care Insurance system is probably the other big fraud played on the US people. It's a joke how transparant it is.

We pay $275 a month per person into healthcare yet are still expected to co-pay an amount. So when that same person recently collapsed and was taken to hospital, they were billed for the ambulance ride, the blood tests, the treatment, the stay in the hospital and the actual operation.

In theory that wouldn't be so bad - yet when you look at the ambulance ride ($3200) so the co-payment was $320, for less than 1/2 mile ride (a 1 mile round trip with no treatment administored) then right away the fraud is there.
The ambulance company billing astronomical amounts for a service that cost way less (big profit) and the insurance company passing on 10% to their user. The whole fucking ride should have been less than $320.

Then the other bills come in. Hospital stay is a $1000 a night (more than Waldorf Astoria and no hookers outside the front door?), etc, etc.,
A big rip off. This individuals total bill came to over $3000 for an operation which she needed to have (blood was forming in her stomach). She has health insurance and makes about $40k a year. How can she afford a $3000 bill on top of that?

Michael Moore fan or not. The US healthcare is ridiculously poor. The pushing of drugs before other treatment (money), the cancelling of insurance if you get too sick, increasing insurance if a business has too many sick employees. It's really pathetic.

seanchai

QFT

[alwaysforyou]

Couldn't have said it better myself.....^

[hondarobot]

here's one for you....

saw a show on discovery health about an inner-city hospital which provided critical care for the indigent. one case involved a 20 year old thug who was shot in, i imagine, a dispute over a pair of $175 sneakers or someone dis-respecting him. he had no visible means of support (again i assume his profession was burglary, crack sales and car-jacking) so the citizens of the state were obliged to provide for his medical care. he had emergency room care, surgery, several days in intensive care, a couple of weeks in the hospital and weeks of rehabilitation therapy. this episode cost the state about $300,000. turns out this was his THIRD episode and his third shooting and by his 21st birthday the public healthcare system had spent well in excess of half a million dollars keeping this valuable citizen alive. he was a high-school dropout, a thug, had never earned a dime on SS payrolls and probably won't live long enough to do so. now you, being all liberal and stuff, i'm sure you would be appalled if this credit to humanity was given any less than the best medical care our system has to offer and can overlook the fact that he is a half-million dollar drain on a system to which he will probably never contribute. life is not fantasyland and absurd conspiracy theories aren't going to fix anything.

Oh no, not the "he was probably shot over some sneakers!" bit. Even if your agrument holds weight, and your assumption was accurate, that was just stupid.

:roll:

[blckhaze]

We pay $275 a month per person into healthcare yet are still expected to co-pay an amount.

PLEASE say thats an exageration... $3200 for a ride....thats fucking ridiculous.. Im assuming that INCLUDES bypass surgery... ?? :lol:

nope seanchai is about right. Recently my grandmother passed away after kidney problems. the hospital is about 10 blocks away from my house. The only reason we couldnt drive was that we didnt want anything to happen and we be stuck in traffic. our ambulance bill alone was $500+. Its hust a shame that other countries struggle with sertain things except heathcare AND education, whille US rich do theire best to stay that way at others expense

[PatrickFromNYC]

here's one for you....

saw a show on discovery health about an inner-city hospital which provided critical care for the indigent. one case involved a 20 year old thug who was shot in, i imagine, a dispute over a pair of $175 sneakers or someone dis-respecting him. he had no visible means of support (again i assume his profession was burglary, crack sales and car-jacking) so the citizens of the state were obliged to provide for his medical care. he had emergency room care, surgery, several days in intensive care, a couple of weeks in the hospital and weeks of rehabilitation therapy. this episode cost the state about $300,000. turns out this was his THIRD episode and his third shooting and by his 21st birthday the public healthcare system had spent well in excess of half a million dollars keeping this valuable citizen alive. he was a high-school dropout, a thug, had never earned a dime on SS payrolls and probably won't live long enough to do so. now you, being all liberal and stuff, i'm sure you would be appalled if this credit to humanity was given any less than the best medical care our system has to offer and can overlook the fact that he is a half-million dollar drain on a system to which he will probably never contribute. life is not fantasyland and absurd conspiracy theories aren't going to fix anything.


I agree with that the healthcare industry in the USA is a big fraud. Just look at the profits.

But tsafficianado makes a good point. The system is set up to be easily abused by some people and we all pay for it. My brother in law is an EMT worker in Brooklyn and he tells me 50% of the people he picks up are NOT emergency cases. In NYC (and probably most of the US) if you call 911 and report an emergency you are taken right away at the ER. People in the projects in Brooklyn call in when the have stomach aches, toothaches, colds...etc.....they simply say that they have shortness of breath and the ambulance picks them up (no cab far) and most of the time they are taken 1st above the people who have been waiting for hours in the ER. The worst part of it all is that 100`s of people die every year in NYC because of these ambulances are busy picking up some unemployed losers with the runs.

I`m liberal by nature but to be honest the heathcare abuse in the US is not exclusive to the big corporations. The only people who suffer are the middle class. When my aunt got Alzheimer's and she needed to go to a home the state took her home and all her savings. If she had nothing she would have gotten the same care.

I don`t have any answers my friends, just observations. Sorry.

[house]

i'll weigh in as a physician. First of all, the uninsured are, by and large, the working poor. These are people who aren't covered at work, aren't poor enough to apply for medicaid, can't/won't pay for it themselves. The mostly ignorant thinking goes that 'thugs' on the dole account for the losses of billions of dollars in care every year. Go ahead and blame immigrants or anyone else you don't like. But the fact is, unless you do a little bit of research, you can believe what you'd like to believe and that will be the end of it. I assure you that there aren't enough street criminals out there to justify the cost of healthcare. However, there are far more than a few white collar criminals out there in private jets. HMO's were put in place to control health care costs. 30 years later, the CEO's of these companies are earning hundred million dollar profits every year. Their industry accounts for several hundred billion dollars every year. Explain to me how you can pay 1 dollar for healthcare and 30 cents goes toward administrative costs? We hire about a dozen different aides and secretaries just to deal with all the phonecalls and codings for just 5 offices. Otherwise we would likely be denied some 25% of the costs of treatment. That's right. That's b/c THEY hire thousands of paper pushers to deny claims. Most of your money is going towards paying for these middle men and women.
If the US ever went single payer (which in my opinion they should and most doctors i know agree given there were some sort of loan forgivness for us physicians) then you'd have hundreds of thousands of people on the street (paper pushers) looking for honest work and an entire paper industry collapsed. That's the only "problem". They are a juggernaut that produces nothing and takes in huge profits.

[tubgirl]

here's one for you....

saw a show on discovery health about an inner-city hospital which provided critical care for the indigent. one case involved a 20 year old thug who was shot in, i imagine, a dispute over a pair of $175 sneakers or someone dis-respecting him. he had no visible means of support (again i assume his profession was burglary, crack sales and car-jacking) so the citizens of the state were obliged to provide for his medical care. he had emergency room care, surgery, several days in intensive care, a couple of weeks in the hospital and weeks of rehabilitation therapy. this episode cost the state about $300,000. turns out this was his THIRD episode and his third shooting and by his 21st birthday the public healthcare system had spent well in excess of half a million dollars keeping this valuable citizen alive. he was a high-school dropout, a thug, had never earned a dime on SS payrolls and probably won't live long enough to do so. now you, being all liberal and stuff, i'm sure you would be appalled if this credit to humanity was given any less than the best medical care our system has to offer and can overlook the fact that he is a half-million dollar drain on a system to which he will probably never contribute. life is not fantasyland and absurd conspiracy theories aren't going to fix anything.


i say shoot him and let him bleed out...

and wasn't moore's movie about taking people south of the border for better health care? (i could care less, will never watch it) point is, even castro had to get doctors from spain because his country's docs fucked up the first time...

[themaster]

A few years ago I had an eye injury in which my Retina was cut. I didn't have insurance, the state had what they called "Free Care," which will pay for some of my care but I need to pay for the rest. I didn't have a job or was in school. So I headed to the ER and had the forum with me saying I have free care. After 3 hours in the ER I was out, I have a prescription which cost me $20(there goes my cab ride).

A few weeks later I got a bill for $345 for the ER visit. I got a call from the bill collectors and asked for there money, when I explained to them my situation and though it would be cover or most would be covered they explain that this is my bill. I said I have no job or source of income, then they asked if I needed a job and could hook me up. I said I can't get a job for reasons I don't want to go into. Eventually the bill was picked up by the state.

Now in the state of Mass signed into law by former Governor Mitt Romney requires everybody in the state to have Health Insurance. However people are saying that there is not enough money in the state funds to pay for the Health Insurance.

Presidential Candidate John Edwards has an idea for Universal Health Care but requires to raises taxes and John states it.

I'm going to see the movie and Hope it will bring more awareness to all.

I have attached a map of what countries have and have not have Universal healthcare.

[Boldlygonedownbefore]

American healthcare is better. I go on first and rip a lot of people off. Canadian healthcare is better. I leave the consumer with little out of pocket cost. Oh, really, fool? Really....Stop looking at me swan....



Healthcare is fucked up & an ambulance ride is maybe worth $150-350 depending on if any equipment is used considering cost of the vehicle, cost of supplies in the vehicle, labor, & gas....hell the EMT's actually doing the work don't receive even 0.5% of the actual cost billed to the consumer

[TomSelis]

We pay $275 a month per person into healthcare yet are still expected to co-pay an amount.

PLEASE say thats an exageration... $3200 for a ride....thats fucking ridiculous.. Im assuming that INCLUDES bypass surgery... ?? :lol:

nope seanchai is about right. Recently my grandmother passed away after kidney problems. the hospital is about 10 blocks away from my house. The only reason we couldnt drive was that we didnt want anything to happen and we be stuck in traffic. our ambulance bill alone was $500+. Its hust a shame that other countries struggle with sertain things except heathcare AND education, whille US rich do theire best to stay that way at others expense

Yep, it is very true. Seanchai, hit the nail right on the head about U.S. healthcare.

My mother had a mild stroke a couple of years ago, her ambulance ride was $800!!.....and she lives literally right around the corner from the hospital.

[Felicia Katt]

Before you declare the operation a success, you might want to read the chart.

The United States spends more per person on health care than any other country, yet in overall quality its care ranks 37th in the world. Infant mortality rates here are higher than virtually every other western country. Health care costs in the US are rising at the twice the level of inflation. They accounted for 15.5% of the nation's economy in 2005, compared with 13.2% in 2002 Health care insurance company profits are increasing at an even greater rate than prices are rising. Per capita health care spending in the United States on average is double that of Canada, France, Germany, Italy and Britain, which provide universal health coverage to residents. In the US most medical services, materials, technologies and drugs are more expensive than in other industrialized countries. By way of example, medical procedures costs here are three times as high as in Canada.

If the US health care system were a person, it might have Kevorkian on speed dial.

FK

[wjcdiver]

ok

[BeardedOne]

In theory that wouldn't be so bad - yet when you look at the ambulance ride ($3200) so the co-payment was $320, for less than 1/2 mile ride (a 1 mile round trip with no treatment administored) then right away the fraud is there.
The ambulance company billing astronomical amounts for a service that cost way less (big profit) and the insurance company passing on 10% to their user. The whole fucking ride should have been less than $320.

Jeezus! I wuz gonna say... I'd believe $320, but the $3200 figure is more in tune with Medivac helicopters. :shock:

Christ, I =bought= my first ambulance for $750.


odd. the US Census bureau reveals in its latest reports that 84.4% of americans are covered by health insurance.

Either they left out the word "not" or their health insurance figures are as screwed up as the rest of their "facts". Or perhaps they are basing it on the fact that half of the people =think= they are covered (Under the assumption that the US operates like Canadia) or that Medicaid is effective "insurance".


the problem with healthcare in america is primarily related to the suicidal lifestyle americans pursue.....

I wholeheartedly agree on this account. Quag's (McDonald's) introduces a 'healthy' menu and we end up double-sizing our orders. Somewhat counter-productive.

Still doesn't cover the $2-300 a month most people would have to fork up for reasonably decent healthcare. Not easy to do if you are working at said McDaonald's at $800-1000 +/- a month less taxes, rent, food, etc.


our ambulance bill alone was $500+.

Somebody's lying. I vote that it was the S-man's ambulance company, padding the bill because his employee had adequate insurance. Basic care providers are notorious for such things, which is why so many ambulance companies don't last long in the real world (And the rest are so heavily regulated that only the strong of heart enter into the business).

Hell, I can get a Pierce pumper and full squad out for $25 during flood season, any ambulance ride that asks more than $500 is squeazing you.

[LOCpunks]

The fact of the matter is that any more of a socialist approach to healthcare in America will never happen under the status quo. The vast majority of Americans have no means to undertake the immense tax hike universal healthcare would entail, myself included. Before you fellow Americans run your mouth off about how we need to completely revolutionize the system, and as much as I applaud successful healthcare systems elsewhere in the world, ask yourself whether you and those around you can afford it. Many people I know choose to live without healthcare- dangerous, I know- but they simply cannot afford coverage. (And those Census numbers are a crock of shit, I assure you...) But at least they are given the choice as to whether or not they will pay for a service they cannot afford; this simply is not true under full universal healthcare.

I will say that the practice of cyclically firing part-time employees (and refusing to hire full time employees) in order to neglect to provide healthcare coverage is a common practice that perpetuates this state of futility. It is a large part of the reason why the poor working class refuses to pay for coverage at all. Under different circumstances, I think we would all support healthcare reform in some form or another, but that fact of the matter remains that in a state with such high rates of inequality, mass amounts of people are going to get fucked under either end of the spectrum. I am actually very curious about the systems in places such as Brazil, where rates of inequality are even higher. It occurs to me that for universal healthcare to be employed there, the quality of healthcare would have to be low.

[themaster]

We pay $275 a month per person into healthcare yet are still expected to co-pay an amount.

PLEASE say thats an exageration... $3200 for a ride....thats fucking ridiculous.. Im assuming that INCLUDES bypass surgery... ?? :lol:

I had to pay $928 for an ambulance ride in 2002.

Did it take you to MGH?

[mph]

The entire medical profession in the U.S. (can't speak for the rest of the world) collapsed the minute it became a for-profit business. Hell, when I was a kid, the local hospital was GBMC (Greater Baltimore Medical Center). It wasn't known as anything else. Nowadays, it's still widely known as GBMC, but every building in the complex has someone's name on it, whether it's a person or a corporation.

Is it a coincidence that when that happened, things went to shit? I think not.

There is so much about this country that infuriates me greatly.

[odelay24]

Legend provides us with this useful factoid


as far as the 'superior' systems in australia and canada et al., imagine how wonderful those systems would be without the incorporation of the medical advances generated in the last 150 years in american medical research (and yes, french and swiss). they would certainly be less expensive assuming the price of leeches can be held under control.



I'm not talking about the facilities necessarily just the way people have to pay for it.