"railroaded into having a sex change" interesting

[timxxx]

Article about a women rushed into the operation - and quickly came to regret it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,2085799,00.html

[Jericho]

Kriss mentioned this the other day:
http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=20272

[Alison Faraday]

*deleted*

[justatransgirl]

Great post Allison. (Ah you deleted it... it was still good though a little harsh.) Here's my take on this subject for what it's worth. I read the article and saved it for reference, thanks Tim.

Yes, there are people like in this article, who make the choice and have have SRS who shouldn't . Although I suspect for every story like this there are ten who've killed themselves because circumstances made it impossible for them to realize their desires.

The range of the TS world as we all know is as varied as the clouds in the sky. Each person is unique and each will be different post op. Some will live, act and be the same. Some will adjust and be content, others will feel they made a mistake. It's well documented that being post-op is not a panacea, that many post-ops don't find the fulfillment they sought. But what isn't clear is how many of those would have been just as unhappy had they not transitioned.

I've been transitioned full-time for going on 3 years, and was seriously in the closet for most of my life, but was not able to transition until later in life.

My first 6 months in transition I was almost frantic to have surgery. I'd waited, researched and soul searched for a lifetime and I was so unhappy living as a man. I really tried to conform, until my choice was transition or pull the trigger. Not much different from many people.

T's who knew better were telling me to slow down, but I wasn't listening, at first. I was hell bent on having SRS like 3 months after going full-time. At the same time I was at least taking the proper precautions to ensure I wasn't doing this from some mental instability. I did the HBIGDA psych thing, and after seeing a therapist and a psychologist. I went to a MD psychaitrist for a 3rd independent evaluation. All agree that I was trans and not crazy so at least that part was solved.

Before I got into the sex industry I believed the party line of the "mainstream" TG / support community (you know the ones that go to support groups and TG conferences) that sex has nothing to do with gender. Sorry but that's BS coming from people without a clue. It's all wrapped up together.

I mention this because in my work as a Domme I have had several occasions where men have contacted me wanting to be feminized to the extreme - forced hormones and even sex change. This is a fetish fantasy some men enjoy, but the reality is not feasible or even sane. I've also met people who desire a sex change to punish themselves by denying them the ability to have sex as a man. Such issues I believe are a result of sexual fetish and are reason to have the HBIGDA standards. (Or whatever it's called now.)

And before someone beats me up on this - I fully believe that a sane adult has the right to do anything they want with their body and life, including ending it by their own choice if or when it's appropriate.

But I think sometimes people make choices without a full understanding of the ramifications. They can also manipulate and mislead therapists if they have psych issues - although the whole point of therapy is to detect and treat such problems. Which in turn brings rise to allegations of gate-keeping, etc.

Now, nearly 3 years later, I'm quite happy that I didn't rush into SRS. The interium years have allowed me to become comfortable with myself and when I do have SRS it won't be out of a desire to "get it over with" or the "fullfillment of a dream" (though I may call it that in discussion) but it will simply be another step in my evolution as a human.

I've had time to more fully explore my sexuality, my gender, my desires and where I fit into the world as a man, a woman and a TS. And right now I'm having so much fun as an exotic TS performer and provider, and because it's my only income at the moment, I'm in no great hurry. But throughout my life the desire for a female body has and is there underneath, waiting patiently.

I think that people who have SRS or transition for sexual reasons are more likely to have issues later in life. Apparently the person in the article had SRS in part to gain the love of her boyfriend and not because of her own internal need. It can be very hard to separate such internal isuses even with professional help. I think the only thing that helps is the perspective of time.

In the article she mentions that she feels nobody will love her as an older TS. That's not true. Love is not about sex. And I've little doubt that I'll have just as much fun as a post-op provider as I have as a pre-op.

Anyway I forgot my initial reason for this post. I've got a date coming and I gotta go - but I hope this gives a little insight for people who may be considering SRS or you guys who are so supportive of the TS commnity!

Hugs,
TS Jamie

[Kriss]

*deleted*

good post Ali, again i am sad that you deleted it (as usual). its just like the guardian 'comment is free' section where you can comment on articles, whenevr somebody says anything genuine it gets deleted within seconds by over cautious mods. (wish the article was in there so you could post a response from someone who knows) . I may have to quote all your posts in future because people really need to read what you have to say Ali. Really , you are one of the few posters on H.A. that actually speak 100%, unedited truth as you see it.

[whatsupwithat]

I missed Alison's post..but I'm glad I did get to see Jamie's. Well done.

I've seen happy after SRS. I've seen sad after SRS. I've seen suicide because someone didn't get SRS. I've seen suicide because someone did.

My advice to people:

Check your motivations. If it's to please someone other than yourself...and, trust me, that's hard to know when you're in a relationship or there's peer pressure...wait. And even if you THINK it's to please yourself...wait...go slow.

btw...this is just my opinion based on what i have seen. i am not a transgender woman. thanks! :)

[timxxx]

It's a pity you deleted your post.It was more insightful than the two articles.And it expressed what l suspected but couldn't say.

[wendy48088]

Yeah, this happens a lot.

The police pick you up, charge you with some serious crime that you didn't commit, and after you are convicted by a jury that believes the police over you, you're then given the choice by the judge between a long prison term and getting a sex change operation...

---

...Seriously...

----

From:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,2085799,00.html

-> ...Now, approaching 50 and medically retired from her successful career as an opera singer and performer, she is full of regrets. "I feel I was railroaded into having a sex change," she says... <-

-> She is, however, currently pursuing a civil claim for damages against him. <-

-> Despite being an optimistic person, Claudia is dreading growing old alone. "I'll never have a relationship. Who's going to want me when they could get a real woman?" she says. "I am not a woman, I am a sex change, and men know that." <-

-> Claudia is not bitter about her experiences, but would like an apology from Reid, and some financial compensation to reflect ... that her sex change ruined her career and personal life. She would also like to help prevent other troubled young men going through the same traumatic experiences. <-

So let me try to understand this... Now that she is almost 50 and retired from her successful career as an opera singer, now she wants to sue the Doctor who recommended her.

And now she finds herself dreading growing old and is miserable, and it sounds like she wants to make it more diifficult for others to get the Hormones and Sex Reassignment Surgery...

What a lovely person...

----

Here is another case I found referenced to. I only quoted some sections from the article.

Hmmm... Reading between the lines here, I'll bet there is another side to these "I got railroaded into getting a sex change" stories. Let me try my hand at taking a guess...

I think that these guys are the kind of people who want what they want, they want it now, they go out and get it, and they will stop at nothing to get it.

Such people are very good at working through or going around problems...

Such hard work and dedication is fine for a great career at the top of a competitive field, but perhaps not so great if you won't listen to any advice and will stop at nothing to get a "sex change" - and then want to sue the doctors later when it turns out to be not quite what you expected.

----

http://society.guardian.co.uk/mentalhealth/story/0,,1150426,00.html

Sex-change patient complains to GMC
Consultant broke rules for surgery, says businessman

A businessman who once led a takeover bid for Sheffield United football club has reported the UK's best-known expert on transsexualism to the General Medical Council, claiming he should never have been given a sex change...

Charles Kane, formerly known as Sam Hashimi, claims that consultant psychiatrist Russell Reid, a specialist in gender identity disorder (GID), referred him for gender reassignment surgery when he had only lived as a woman for a month - in breach of international standards of care.

Mr Kane, who has reverted to living as a man after briefly being known as Samantha, said: "It was certainly not the right course of action for me. It was intolerable. I had to go through several operations to try to repair the damage that had been done."

He first saw Dr Reid in 1997 after "a severe mental breakdown" caused by the break-up of his marriage. He claims that Dr Reid referred him for surgery after he had lived as a woman for only 30 days, and a sex change was performed just four months later.

The 43-year-old Iraqi-born British designer and property developer hit the headlines in 1990 with his takeover bid for Sheffield United, and eight years later was considered for the job of the club's chief executive...

----

And just to cover all the bases, here is apparently a longer version of the article here:
http://society.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,7890,1273045,00.html

... With a story of a person who went from being Mark to being Patricia, then back to being Mark, and finally to being Marissa...

Two months ago, Marissa Dainton changed sex for the third time in 11 years. She started life as Mark Dainton in 1967. In 1992, a year before her first sex change operation, she took the name Patricia Vincent. Four years later, Patricia decided to go back to living as Mark. Now she has become a woman again. Sitting in the lounge of the small terrace house she shares with her wife, her eyes stray to the wedding photo on the mantelpiece. "What happened to me should be a lesson in the need to make sure you're really ready before changing gender," she says.

Once Dainton had a penis, then a vagina, now she has nothing. Soon after her first sex change, she joined an evangelical church and became convinced her operation was sinful. She stopped taking oestrogen and was prescribed testosterone. Her beard and body hair began to grow back, and her sex drive soared. Before getting married to another member of the congregation six years ago, she had her artificial vagina removed. This left her with smooth skin where her genitals once were.

"My wife said she'd feel more comfortable about having a physical relationship if I didn't have a vagina. You'd have thought I'd have realised it was a mistake because I wasn't bothered about not being a 'complete man'. I never missed what was taken away," she says, smiling sardonically.

Her sex change reversal was hailed as a miracle by her church. "I became their cause célèbre." In secret she was still cross-dressing, although it wasn't until last year that she decided she wanted to become a woman again. "My biggest fear was spending the rest of my life shuttling between genders. But I realised I was heading for a breakdown and couldn't go on denying my true feelings. I had to become a woman again."

She went back on oestrogen and had electrolysis to remove her male hair growth. This time the only surgery she had was breast implants. Without genitals, the only way to create a new vagina would be to remove a section of her bowel, which could leave her needing a colostomy bag. "I can only possibly envisage putting myself through what is very painful and risky surgery if I had a new partner and we decided it would help our relationship sexually," she says.

Yet Dainton, 36, considers herself lucky. She works as a senior nurse in a local NHS hospital. She feels accepted as a woman and attracts no unwelcome attention walking through her home town of Eastbourne in a skirt, top and make-up.

Nevertheless, she feels she might have been spared her gender identity crisis had doctors better prepared her for her first sex change. "There was a lot of emphasis on deportment, ways of speaking and behaviour," she recalls, "some talk of what you could expect sexually with the results of the surgery, but in terms of addressing getting on with life afterwards, there was very little." ...

[peggygee]

While responding to this thread I was reminded of another post, where a
number of the concerns that have been raised here were addressed.

I have re-posted it, in the hopes that it will provide further clarification:



Maggie.. dont take this the wrong way... is it true that a lot of post-ops go crazy or suicidal after surgery? Just heard that and wondering..


Indeed, there are effects that one might not anticipate.

Along the lines of what you are speaking about, is the reality of the GRS,
sinking in.

Sometimes pre ops may feel that if, and when they obtain their surgery,
that all of the problems in their life will magically go away.

That they will stop getting clocked, that they will find the man of their
dreams, they will get great jobs, that the world will stop fucking with
them.

That is so far from the reality. And when reality bitch slaps someone, it
hurts, a lot.

The world does not know, nor in most cases, care that you have achieved
your life long dream.

Further, the 'man you did have'may lose interest in you, or vice -versa,
and your previous friends may not be feeling you, for whatever reason.
Then, there are those that find that may miss the use of their penis.

Those could be some of the things that could or would fuck with
someones mental health. By the by the 'demons' I alluded to in my other
post, weren't GRS related, but other life issues. Hopefully, as much as
possible that type of stuff, has been dealt with, because, problems do not
go away, when the penis goes away.

I can not stress enough, that it is not for everyone. Women, really should
go through the (real life test) RLT, not just jump on the operating table on
a whim.

A person should give it a great deal of thought and study. Ideally they
should not be taking the walk alone, either, but with the aid of a
professional, versed in GID.

Does my being a post op, make me any better, smarter, prettier, than
the non op, or the pre op, HELL 2 the NO!!

Did, it make 'me' happier, in many areas, yes.

Will it change 'your' life, yes!

Will, it change it for the better, maybe.

There are many, many important decisions we will make in our life, this
clearly is at the top of the list, of those not to be taken lightly.

[wendy48088]

Jamie:

I just wanted to say thank your for sharing your experiences on this.

I find your posts informative and very insight. I find your attitude in general and the direction you have taken in your life to be a very logical and practical sounding one.

Reading about what you have done has helped me a lot in getting ideas for what direction would work best for me.

Hugs,

Wendy


...

I've been transitioned full-time for going on 3 years, and was seriously in the closet for most of my life, but was not able to transition until later in life.

My first 6 months in transition I was almost frantic to have surgery. I'd waited, researched and soul searched for a lifetime and I was so unhappy living as a man. I really tried to conform, until my choice was transition or pull the trigger. Not much different from many people.

T's who knew better were telling me to slow down, but I wasn't listening, at first. I was hell bent on having SRS like 3 months after going full-time. At the same time I was at least taking the proper precautions to ensure I wasn't doing this from some mental instability. I did the HBIGDA psych thing, and after seeing a therapist and a psychologist. I went to a MD psychaitrist for a 3rd independent evaluation. All agree that I was trans and not crazy so at least that part was solved.

Before I got into the sex industry I believed the party line of the "mainstream" TG / support community (you know the ones that go to support groups and TG conferences) that sex has nothing to do with gender. Sorry but that's BS coming from people without a clue. It's all wrapped up together.

I mention this because in my work as a Domme I have had several occasions where men have contacted me wanting to be feminized to the extreme - forced hormones and even sex change. This is a fetish fantasy some men enjoy, but the reality is not feasible or even sane. I've also met people who desire a sex change to punish themselves by denying them the ability to have sex as a man. Such issues I believe are a result of sexual fetish and are reason to have the HBIGDA standards. (Or whatever it's called now.)

And before someone beats me up on this - I fully believe that a sane adult has the right to do anything they want with their body and life, including ending it by their own choice if or when it's appropriate.

But I think sometimes people make choices without a full understanding of the ramifications. They can also manipulate and mislead therapists if they have psych issues - although the whole point of therapy is to detect and treat such problems. Which in turn brings rise to allegations of gate-keeping, etc.

Now, nearly 3 years later, I'm quite happy that I didn't rush into SRS. The interium years have allowed me to become comfortable with myself and when I do have SRS it won't be out of a desire to "get it over with" or the "fullfillment of a dream" (though I may call it that in discussion) but it will simply be another step in my evolution as a human.

I've had time to more fully explore my sexuality, my gender, my desires and where I fit into the world as a man, a woman and a TS. And right now I'm having so much fun as an exotic TS performer and provider, and because it's my only income at the moment, I'm in no great hurry. But throughout my life the desire for a female body has and is there underneath, waiting patiently.

I think that people who have SRS or transition for sexual reasons are more likely to have issues later in life. Apparently the person in the article had SRS in part to gain the love of her boyfriend and not because of her own internal need. It can be very hard to separate such internal isuses even with professional help. I think the only thing that helps is the perspective of time.

...

Hugs,
TS Jamie

[wendy48088]

Peggy, thank you for your insight into being a Post-Op TS woman.

Hugs,

Wendy




...

Sometimes pre ops may feel that if, and when they obtain their surgery,
that all of the problems in their life will magically go away.

That they will stop getting clocked, that they will find the man of their
dreams, they will get great jobs, that the world will stop fucking with
them.

That is so far from the reality. And when reality bitch slaps someone, it
hurts, a lot.

The world does not know, nor in most cases, care that you have achieved
your life long dream.

Further, the 'man you did have'may lose interest in you, or vice -versa,
and your previous friends may not be feeling you, for whatever reason.
Then, there are those that find that may miss the use of their penis.

Those could be some of the things that could or would fuck with
someones mental health. By the by the 'demons' I alluded to in my other
post, weren't GRS related, but other life issues. Hopefully, as much as
possible that type of stuff, has been dealt with, because, problems do not
go away, when the penis goes away.

I can not stress enough, that it is not for everyone. Women, really should
go through the (real life test) RLT, not just jump on the operating table on
a whim.

A person should give it a great deal of thought and study. Ideally they
should not be taking the walk alone, either, but with the aid of a
professional, versed in GID.

Does my being a post op, make me any better, smarter, prettier, than
the non op, or the pre op, HELL 2 the NO!!

Did, it make 'me' happier, in many areas, yes.

Will it change 'your' life, yes!

Will, it change it for the better, maybe.

There are many, many important decisions we will make in our life, this
clearly is at the top of the list, of those not to be taken lightly.

[peggygee]

Peggy, thank you for your insight into being a Post-Op TS woman.

Hugs,

Wendy




Thanks sweety.

Wanted to share with folks, that it's not all peaches
and cream being a gyno-American. :wink:

[Vicki Richter]

I think anyone who gets SRS and then sues the doctor for malpractice because they weren't ready should be shot. It fucks it up for all of us.

[BrendaQG]

The one thing that jumps out at me is this quote in context:



Claudia's world, however, began to crumble soon after the surgery. "My body was not my own any more," she says, "and it turned out not to be the success I had been led to believe it would be, in more ways than one." She found sex difficult, as the surgery had not been entirely successful. In pain and discomfort, her confidence was at rock bottom and her desire for sex nonexistent.

Soon after her change, Claudia became sucked into the world of transvestism and transsexualism, even though it felt "alien" to her. "I was by then a very successful opera singer and drag performer," she says, "but as soon as I had my surgery I lost all confidence. Rather than going on stage in character, I was there as this thing. There is a huge leap from being a cross-dresser to being a transsexual."


One case of someone who had a botched SRS makes the news. To be honest I think bad SRS would make any transsexual...who values having sex with men...think they made a mistake. Because they would have in a way. Even if living as a woman suits you better if you value sex with men and the surgery messes up that part of your life. I can't imagine how that must feel. I can understand her emotions on that.

The part that I italicized sounds like she internalized allot of the negative things that pure drag queens, and many others, have been known to say about those who go transsexual.

This is bull shit pure and simple. Those last 20 years of her life could not have been so horrible, SRS at 29, after about what 10 years give or take of living in the female role. If it was really being a transsexual that did not fit her she would have found out after about a month of going through everyday life as a woman.

The moral of this story kiddies is shop carefully for a doctor. I know it sounds vacuous but not being able to have an orgasm again , EVER, would really make for a boring , depressing, life.

[timxxx]

update:Doctor is found guilty

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6691575.stm

[Vicki Richter]

Lame!

[Alison Faraday]

Well I promise that I won't delete this one, well maybe..

Guilty eh!? About sums it dun it! A load of failures in life given the power to fuck up someone's life who helped alot of people. It'd be different if he wasn't my Doctor.

We've had various documentaries here in the UK documenting these various people. And they're complete and utter whackos. I'm really talking WHACKO. People who have no substance or meaning to their lives, and the only way they can get attention is by blaming someone else for their own mistakes.

"I can't get on in life. My marriage is failing. My kids don't love me. John has a faster car than me. Jerry gets paid more than me. House prices have gone up. I know what the answer is, I've just realised it, I'M A WOMAN!!"

FUCK OFF!

The continual drivel and tripe that comes out of these people's lives is enough to make me puke. They can't get on with life, so they try to align themselves with a group of people who are doing precisely that, getting on with their lives. And then they realise that they're so pathetic that the transgendered group that they've joined hates them too. And that's saying something!!

Russel Reid's only fault is being genuine.


The case against him was taken to the GMC by four psychiatrists who worked at the Charing Cross Hospital gender identity clinic. That would be the same four psychiatrists who had regular occurances of their patients walking straight out of CHX and jumping under tube trains.

I am sickened. I am disappointed. I am ashamed to be known as a transsexual by anyone. Very very disappointed. I hope to catch up with RR in the coming months once this has blown over. I still owe him £30.. ;)

Those six patients were lost and hopeless attention seekers. The most well known of them, coined Citizen Kane, is a multi-millionaire with a liking of yachts amongst other things. He used to hang out in UK clubs where no one took any notice of him/her/whatever it is, as he scared the hell out of everyone. Not by their appearance, but by their persona.

So to everyone reading this here. If you think we receive free medical treatment from the NHS, trust me on this, we don't. If you have tattoos and want them removed then yes of course. But if you have cancer then you have to fight. Ah yes, but what about transsexuals? Electroconvulsive therapy of course. And failing that, you can sit in a room for years on end in group sessions telling Mary down the end there why you want to be a woman.

This is a reflection of the UK. Where the institution disagrees, it moves the goal posts telling only half the story behind smoke and mirrors.

If someone can tell me here where this perfect world is where these people come from then please do enlighten me? In fact, enlighten the rest of us, we'd be delighted to know.

[BrendaQG]

Wonderful.

Any talk of GID not being in the DSM can be shelved for a few decades on account of this. People like these are the reason I have never thought that was a good idea.

What I really worry is that a vocal few will once again ruin a good thing for the many. Driving another psychologist away from serving TS's. Their just aren't many who specialize in our care who don't cost an arm and a leg.

[Vala_TS]

So is this going to screw up the processes for other people now?

Vala,

[Rod la Rod]

Testosterone= sex drive.

Sex drive = desire for SRS in people with GID

Estrogen+ Aldactrone, androgen blockers or castration=lower sex drive

Lower sex drive = less interest in or psychosexual desire for SRS

This explains the lowered need or desire for SRS after HRT and transition.

[BrendaQG]

Testosterone= sex drive.

True even in genetic women.


Sex drive = desire for SRS in people with GID

Bull shit.


Estrogen+ Aldactrone, androgen blockers or castration=lower sex drive

Bull Shit.


Lower sex drive = less interest in or psychosexual desire for SRS

Bull shit


This explains the lowered need or desire for SRS after HRT and transition.
Once again Bull Shit.

First physiologically the Adrenal glands make enough testosterone to keep a healthy sex drive functioning.

Psychologically, what you are saying would only be true of a transsexual who is driven by the need to have female anatomy for their own autoerotic pleasure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogynephilia). True people like that do exist but they are not by any means ALL transsexuals.

Most transsexuals have SRS basically to make their social lives easier. If one is attracted to men having a vagina can make it easier for a straight man to accept you for a LTR and even make a short fling possible without having to tell. I can imagine that some who like women would want good quality SRS in hopes of passing the inspection of a lesbian lover too.

I know that's not the party line of "oh I just could not imagine myself with a penis..." , "An operation on my sex organs has nothing to do with sex..." etc. Darn it I just never connected emotionally to that kind of talk myself.

[Rod la Rod]

Having a "healthy sex drive" from adrenal testosterone and having the sex drive of a pubertal male with super high testosterone levels are quite different.
In the ideal situation an MTF TS should transition and live for a certain period of time without the overwhelming influence
of MALE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS before making the decision to have SRS.

I think that there is a paradoxical relationship between a high sex drive, ( i.e. high testosterone), in a MTF person and an unavoidable obsession with SRS.

But that is just my opinion.

[The Truth]

Having a "healthy sex drive" from adrenal testosterone and having the sex drive of a pubertal male with super high testosterone levels are quite different.
In the ideal situation an MTF TS should transition and live for a certain period of time without the overwhelming influence
of MALE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS before making the decision to have SRS.

I think that there is a paradoxical relationship between a high sex drive, ( i.e. high testosterone), in a MTF person and an unavoidable obsession with SRS.

But that is just my opinion.You're full of crap. And that's just my opinion.

[Rod la Rod]

"The Truth" or "Legend" you are the same person and you are either about 14 years old or a barely functional half wit.

Either way you don't belong on this board with adults.

[The Truth]

"The Truth" or "Legend" you are the same person and you are either about 14 years old or a barely functional half wit.

Either way you don't belong on this board with adults.If you say so. And while you're at it, I guess I am also BrendaQG. I guess you didn't read her post. You should thank her for educating your ignorant ass. But you're too stupid to understand anything.

Be selfish and don't go around sharing your ignorance. Keep it all to yourself.

Now move on! I don't want to waste my time arguing with you.

[Rod la Rod]

Wow that hurt. Does mommy know that you are on this board.