Well..being a chick with a dick might not be a sin..

[signupjustforthis]

if you look into your heart..!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW8_cz-6qro


:lol:


I think its interesting that the pastor didn’t flat out said that being with a transsexual is a sin. It got me thinking, so this is how a person can be homophobic and is okay with transsexuals. I am not sure how I feel bad about that. I have to say, its at least better for transsexuals because the bible seems to give more flexibility in that regard anyways.

[Jericho]

if you look into your heart..!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW8_cz-6qro


:lol:


I think its interesting that the pastor didn’t flat out said that being with a transsexual is a sin. It got me thinking, so this is how a person can be homophobic and is okay with transsexuals. I am not sure how I feel bad about that. I have to say, its at least better for transsexuals because the bible seems to give more flexibility in that regard anyways.


Had to laugh at: Another man of the same sex as yourself! :lol:

[signupjustforthis]

"a man of the same sex"

well, i guess, he is talking about female to male transsexuals whose biological sex is female.

So i guess, having sex with those transmen would be "okay". :wink:

[peggygee]

Here are some articles that discuss transsexualism and Christianity:

Religion, spirituality, and transsexuality
http://www.tsroadmap.com/mental/spirit.html

God Don't Make No Junk
http://www.drbecky.com/junk.html

TRANSGENDERED CHRISTIANS, GAYS AND OUR COMMON BOND
by Robyn M.E. Shanor, PhD MDiv
http://www.whosoever.org/v2Issue2/shanor.html

Here are articles discussing Islam and transsexualism:

A fatwa for transsexuals
http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2005/07/28/iran_transsexuals/index.html

Sexuality, gender & Islam
http://www.safraproject.org/sgi-genderidentity.htm

Transsexuality In Iran
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexuality_in_Iran

A Muslim TS Group
http://groups.msn.com/TheSisterhood/transgenderinislam.msnw

[Jericho]

So i guess, having sex with those transmen would be "okay". :wink:

...

[signupjustforthis]

Iran allows sex reassignment surgery but hang homosexuals. This is a perfect example that some religious people consider that it is better to be a transsexual if you are going to be with a guy.

[Jericho]

peggygee Wrote:

Here are articles discussing Islam and transsexualism:
A fatwa for transsexuals
http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2005/07/28/iran_transsexuals/index.html

Interesting.
I've learnt something today!

[peggygee]

Iran allows sex reassignment surgery but hang homosexuals. This is a perfect example that some religious people consider that it is better to be a transsexual if you are going to be with a guy.

A fatwa is a legal opinion or ruling issued by an Islamic scholar, judge
or mufti. It will be based upon the Qur'an, Sunnah and Islamic
Shari'ah. The Shari'ah is the revealed and the canonical laws
of the religion of Islam.

Fatwas allowing SRS have been issued in a number of Isamic countries,
including Iran, Egypt, Jordan, Morocco, etc.

[crayons]

if you look into your heart..!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW8_cz-6qro


:lol:


I think its interesting that the pastor didn’t flat out said that being with a transsexual is a sin. It got me thinking, so this is how a person can be homophobic and is okay with transsexuals. I am not sure how I feel bad about that. I have to say, its at least better for transsexuals because the bible seems to give more flexibility in that regard anyways.

"Something to remind me of the good ol' days" I fucking love that. Genius.

[blackmagic]

“Religion... made by man for man”http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Confused/puzzled-21.png
that video was just stupid.......... so anyways i guess ill throw in my 2cents about TS and pastors........ my friend teresa (now homeless) is still a pastor. :2cent

what was the point of this thread anyways?

[blackmagic]

Iran allows sex reassignment surgery but hang homosexuals. This is a perfect example that some religious people consider that it is better to be a transsexual if you are going to be with a guy.

Not only based upon the koran as peg wrote it. but also the grand ayatollah finally put the stupidity of religion aside and actually learned about XXY, XX, and XXX and so on.

[signupjustforthis]

Iran allows sex reassignment surgery but hang homosexuals. This is a perfect example that some religious people consider that it is better to be a transsexual if you are going to be with a guy.

Not only based upon the koran as peg wrote it. but also the grand ayatollah finally put the stupidity of religion aside and actually learned about XXY, XX, and XXX and so on.


He put the stupidity of religon aside? I don't think so. Ayatollah did not put religion aside.

The point is that a religious interpretation according to the Quran can be said to condone trans sexuality, whereas the bible cannot.

If you have actually read one of the articles posted by peggy,

“According to some authors the Qur'an explicitly recognises that there are some people who are neither male nor female. Verses 42:49-42:50 are translated by these authors as: "To God belongs the dominion over the heavens and the earth. It creates what it wills. It prepares for whom it wills females, and it prepares for whom it wills males. Or it marries together the males and the females, and it makes those whom it wills to be ineffectual (barren)”.”


Anyways, transexuality is not a chromosome disorder.
Anyways, you think transsexuals are not women so what is the point of you reply ? :roll:

[blackmagic]

Iran allows sex reassignment surgery but hang homosexuals. This is a perfect example that some religious people consider that it is better to be a transsexual if you are going to be with a guy.

Not only based upon the koran as peg wrote it. but also the grand ayatollah finally put the stupidity of religion aside and actually learned about XXY, XX, and XXX and so on.


He put the stupidity of religon aside? I don't think so.

Anyways, transexuality is not a chromosome disorder.
Anyways, you think transsexuals are not women so what is the point of you reply ? :roll:

your right i dont think so. i know so, and hey if you wanna take a trip to christ for the nations and ask my professor of theology who gave me my Assoc, in gen biblical studies then so be it. :wink:

dude scroll up to the top *sigh*

[signupjustforthis]

The point is that a religious interpretation according to the Quran can be said to condone trans sexuality, whereas the bible cannot. That's why Iran allows transsexuals to exist, but i don't know. If the Quran condemn it , i am sure the leader of Iran can't put religion aside.

If you have actually read one of the articles posted by peggy,

“According to some authors the Qur'an explicitly recognises that there are some people who are neither male nor female. Verses 42:49-42:50 are translated by these authors as: "To God belongs the dominion over the heavens and the earth. It creates what it wills. It prepares for whom it wills females, and it prepares for whom it wills males. Or it marries together the males and the females, and it makes those whom it wills to be ineffectual (barren)”.”

[blackmagic]

The point is that a religious interpretation according to the Quran can be said to condone trans sexuality, whereas the bible cannot.


:smh

"o the stupidity"

[signupjustforthis]

Why is it stupid? And why am I a dude, because I am actually refuting you , instead of sucking your cock? whatever, bitch :roll:

[blackmagic]

The point is that a religious interpretation according to the Quran can be said to condone trans sexuality, whereas the bible cannot. That's why Iran allows transsexuals to exist, but i don't know. If the Quran condemn it , i am sure the leader of Iran can't put religion aside.

If you have actually read one of the articles posted by peggy,

“According to some authors the Qur'an explicitly recognises that there are some people who are neither male nor female. Verses 42:49-42:50 are translated by these authors as: "To God belongs the dominion over the heavens and the earth. It creates what it wills. It prepares for whom it wills females, and it prepares for whom it wills males. Or it marries together the males and the females, and it makes those whom it wills to be ineffectual (barren)”.”

If you actually knew anything about religion id continue this arguement but hey ill save you allot of time Deuteronomy 22 5 :roll:

[blackmagic]

Why is it stupid? And why am I a dude, because I am actually refuting you , instead of sucking your cock? whatever, bitch :roll:

my bad dude, i forgot your a tranny in training http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/lol-053.gif

[signupjustforthis]

I am sorry, maybe you are more of an expert on religions, but I still don’t see how Ayatollah learning about XXY, XX, and XXX and so on would help transsexuals to gain legal protection in Iran.



Transsexuality is not a chromosome condition.

[signupjustforthis]

Why is it stupid? And why am I a dude, because I am actually refuting you , instead of sucking your cock? whatever, bitch :roll:

my bad dude, i forgot your a tranny in training http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/lol-053.gif

I am not training to be anything..

I don't need to "train". That sounds like I am trying to impress people. I am doing this for myself.

[blackmagic]

Why is it stupid? And why am I a dude, because I am actually refuting you , instead of sucking your cock? whatever, bitch :roll:

my bad dude, i forgot your a tranny in training http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/lol-053.gif

I am not training to be anything..

I don't need to "train". That sounds like I am trying to impress people. I am doing this for myself.

whatever, er transsexual transition (big diffrence between the 2)

[signupjustforthis]

okay fine, just stop being so mean to me! :cry: lol.

[blackmagic]

okay fine, just stop being so mean to me! :cry: lol.

lol, ok :D

[peggygee]

If you actually knew anything about religion id continue this arguement but hey ill save you allot of time Deuteronomy 22 5 :roll:

Would this truly be applicable to MTF ttanssexuals, or more relevant
to a transvestite?

Deuteronomy 22:5

The woman shall not wear that which pertains to a man, neither
shall a man put on a woman's garment, for all that do so are
an abomination to the Lord your God.

[blackmagic]

If you actually knew anything about religion id continue this arguement but hey ill save you allot of time Deuteronomy 22 5 :roll:

Would this truly be applicable to MTF ttanssexuals, or more relevant
to a transvestite?

Deuteronomy 22:5

The woman shall not wear that which pertains to a man, neither
shall a man put on a woman's garment, for all that do so are
an abomination to the Lord your God.

well to be honest in todays society that BS scripture is way out of date considering almost every article of clothing we wear today is unisex.

hmmmmmm good question.... If a M2F TS sees herself as a women which any M2F TS diagnosed with GD (GID) should, then they wouldnt see themselves as crossdressing but dressing in the correct gender role, as for someone who does not have GD (GID) they may see it way diffrently.

Id have to understand your definition of what a TV is before prejudging.

[peggygee]

Id have to understand your definition of what a TV is before prejudging.


Cross-dressers or transvestites comprise the most numerous
transgender group. Cross-dressers wear the clothing of the
other sex. They vary in how completely they dress (from one
article of clothing to fully cross-dressing) as well as in their motives
for doing so.

Some cross-dress to express cross-gender feelings
or identities; others crossdress for fun, for emotional comfort, or
for sexual arousal. The great majority of cross-dressers are
biological males, most of whom are sexually attracted to women.

http://www.apa.org/topics/transgender.html

http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=12755&highlight=apa

[blackmagic]

Id have to understand your definition of what a TV is before prejudging.


Cross-dressers or transvestites comprise the most numerous
transgender group. Cross-dressers wear the clothing of the
other sex. They vary in how completely they dress (from one
article of clothing to fully cross-dressing) as well as in their motives
for doing so.

Some cross-dress to express cross-gender feelings
or identities; others crossdress for fun, for emotional comfort, or
for sexual arousal. The great majority of cross-dressers are
biological males, most of whom are sexually attracted to women.

http://www.apa.org/topics/transgender.html

http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=12755&highlight=apa

ok....... now that i understand how there defined...... and thinking in advance, Id rather not voice my opinion weather the scripture does or does not relate to TS or TV do to the fact i would probably anger or make others sad from my point of view.

So i guess ill have to fall back on the famous saying: if you dont have anything nice to say then dont say it at all, but thanks for the info anyways peggy

[yodajazz]

The point is that a religious interpretation according to the Quran can be said to condone trans sexuality, whereas the bible cannot.

Mathew 19:11

11Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage[c]because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

This is the International translation, used in the popular Gideon version. I suggest reading the chapter from the beginning. Many people are familiar with this chapter because of Jesus's statements about divorce, and also his statement "male and female he made them."

I believe that not only does his statement (Ch.19 V.12) applies to transgender people, and it should be applied to a the wider class of gender variants, which would include gays. If you look as Jesus's statement, he bascially covers both sides of the argument that gender variants were born that way or that it is a lifestyle choice. He does not comdemn either, or say that people who find things offensive should be forced to accept it.

There are statements in the Bible prohibiting specific behaviors, such as in Deuteronomy. There are many which people ignore as impracticle such as wear different types of fabrics at the same time; or the statement that a child who disobeys his parents should be put to death. Why is it so important to promote one statement as the word of God but completely ignore other impracticle ones.

In my understanding Jesus came to emphasize that certain general principles are more important than many specific laws. He critisized the Pharisees, who knew and practiced the the letter of the law, but thought that they were better than others. He left us with two general principles, which he called new commandments: "Love God and love thy neighbor as thyself." I say that if you are not Gay, then Gay people are your neighbors, if you are Christian, then Muslims are your neighbors, etc.

I am not an expert on Islam, but I know that the religion has some general principle upon which the path is based. Peace and charity, I know are two major principles. Acceptance of people could be made on the basis of wider principles vs specific passages which were made to address cultural issues of the time.

I think the broader principles should be acceptence of private sexual behavior between consenting adults, vs behaviors which clearly harm others, such as beheading a teacher in the classroom, in front of students.

[signupjustforthis]

I know i have read in the past that the bible talked about the eunuchs..thanks for sharing that.

I think the bible explicitly state that homosexuality is wrong, where as the bible didn’t really talk about transsexuals, but cross dressers only.

Anyways, that’s a very simplistic comment, I don’t know much but I just know that there is less direct remark about transsexuals than homosexuality in the bible, which is probably why some die hard Christians are cool with the whole transsexual things, and not homosexuals. That's the point I wanted to make..originally.

[blackmagic]

I know i have read in the past that the bible talked about the eunuchs..thanks for sharing that.

I think the bible explicitly state that homosexuality is wrong, where as the bible didn’t really talk about transsexuals, but cross dressers only.

Anyways, that’s a very simplistic comment, I don’t know much but I just know that there is less direct remark about transsexuals than homosexuality in the bible, which is probably why some die hard Christians are cool with the whole transsexual things, and not homosexuals. That's the point I wanted to make..originally.

:lol: lol well i guess we can all agree the bible was writen by a bunch of homophobes :lol:

[BrendaQG]

Thanks for pointing me to this. Peggy

First I will say that what peggygee has said is 100% accurate.

FYI the word for transsexual in arabic is "mukhannath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukhannathun)".
When this is explained to people in the west it is sort of fudged around. In one place they may say it means hermaprodite, in others they may say Eunnuch. Sites ran by homosexual muslims will try to claim they were just gay men (but then then homosexuals say that about moder transsexuals too :-?)

This page basically links to all the historical stuff you would want to know about. The most interesting thing is that Mohammed aparently knew several of us. Most who were friends of his youngest and fovaroite wife Aisha.
Wikipedia:Mukhannathun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukhannathun)
You may notice the use of the male pronoun in that page. It is correct to the thinking of the time. Though these people were free to change role there was no concept of change of sex as we think of it. Castration to stop masculinizeation and that was about it. Hormoes? Want to suck on a goat ovary?

Never the less it should not be surprising that transsexuals of that time would find their way to Mecca in disproportionate numbers, it was the New York of its time and place.

I find it very interesting reading all that stuff how in so many ways those transsexuals were much like the transsexuals here and now.

[peggygee]

Thank you Brenda, and also thank you for the additional
info on the Mukhannathun (Arabic مخنثون "effeminate ones",
singular mukhannath).

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/TheMoreyouknow4x2.jpg

[Eklipse]

Bruno Sucks Wheres Borat!!!! "High Five"

[Fox]

Fox's intelligence level increases 0.1 points.

[peggygee]

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/bump-1.gif

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/le06.gif

[peggygee]

Let us continue quoting from the book of Leviticus, then, and even Exodus.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)