Miriam being deleted from history

[BrendaQG]

Hello all.

Being the egg head that I am it should be no surprise that I am an avid wikipedian. With the latest commotion about Miriam being thrown out of a window I sought to edit the biographical page that is about her to reflect that. Wikipedia: Miriam Rivera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miriam_Rivera)

Since then it has attracted some attention from other editors who have seen fit to gut it. Removing the pictures (nothing racy) and most of the details. Many of which were found here on HA. The article was stable and a editorial consessus had been found. Consensus on things like Miriam being born in Hermosillo Mexico, her birthdate, her name etc. With one person, a transgendered person going so far as to try and dig up Miriam's legal (and I presume male) name, calling "Miriam" a stage name. etc. etc. I will always be preplexed by why someone being thrown out of a window get's no play and another person being fired get's the full force of the "transgendered community" and tons of media behind it. :-?

I know there are more important things in the world to worry about but I have no control over those. This anyone with the internet can do something about.

What would help.
Does anyone know of any publications anywhere, not blogs, not message boards that confirm various biographical elements of Miram's story. In particular this version (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Miriam_Rivera&oldid=114936403), which from what I can tell was quite stable for years

[BeardedOne]

While I have found Wikipedia both interesting and useful, I see it as a very Orwellian reference source. Miriam's page being a stellar example of how history changes there.


Does anyone know of any publications anywhere, not blogs, not message boards that confirm various biographical elements of Miram's story.

I think the only way to get an accurate and sincere look into her life would be to have her submit a blurb of her own, but that is, of course, subject to how much she wants to reveal of her own life.

That's a sad thing about many of the gurls here, that they have no past. I understand many of their reasons for it, so I am not judging or criticizing their decisions, that's just a comment. Some, like Alannah, Jen, and Jennifer Paris have willingly 'fessed up to their other selves, but it's an individual decision entirely relative to how they feel about their past lives and the events they've experienced.

Not to sound cold and uncaring here (I certainly don't mean to be), but Miriam's plight has given her some 'down time' where she might actually want to consider working on an official biography while she is going through her recovery. One of the most insightful reads I ever experienced was "My Story" by Caroline 'Tula' Cossey and in it she revealed her past life, her opinions, her experiences, hopes and fears in a way no friend or fan ever could. Again, all subject to how much of her life, past or present, she wishes to reveal.

[BrendaQG]

Yeah I know what you mean. I have had a heck of a time explaining to some people that... Miriam and people like her, in her situation don't often have a very long paper trail. I have been in some online and offline heated arguements about just how important "papers" are. You know BC ID DL etc. etc.

It dosen't seem that she has been shy about talking about what she has done in the past. You mention having her write a "blurb". As I understand Wikipedia's rules...that would not be admissible....though only a asshole would try to tell somone about thier own life story.

This...her getting only two pieces of mail.... really disappointing indeed.

[elo]

The informations on that wikipedia link are mostly taken from her TV show There something about Miriam and are correct as far as i can(i watched the show).She gave herself this informations.

[BeardedOne]

This...her getting only two pieces of mail.... really disappointing indeed.

OK, OK, I'll write! :shock:

:)

Truly, people (American people especially) are lazy-ass mofos when it comes to putting pen to paper. I confess, I use a word processor (Because no one can =read= my writing), but I still have that motivation thing to get past. :?


I have been in some online and offline heated arguements about just how important "papers" are. You know BC ID DL etc. etc.

This is very different than what, if anything, you wish to reveal about your past. IDs are a very different animal, particularly in this post-9/11 world. Just imagine the turmoil caused by Jane Doe showing up at the airport gate with an ID that shows her as "John Doe" instead. IDs are hardwired into our day-to-day realities and, as such, have to conform to the 'norm', as it were.

Yet there are many TG/TS people that have a sincere desire to blank out on their past lives, even to those that know and love them. Some simply tweak their everyday lives (One gurl I know just snapped the corner off her driver's license and claimed that it was damaged in the wash), while others spend uncountable hours and days battling the red tape for an identity that only they can understand is truly their own.


It dosen't seem that she has been shy about talking about what she has done in the past. You mention having her write a "blurb". As I understand Wikipedia's rules...that would not be admissible....though only a asshole would try to tell somone about thier own life story.

Hmm...Yah, I can see that. Tooting one's own horn would certainly be frowned upon. All the more reason for a biography. Others can quote it. :)

[BrendaQG]

The informations on that wikipedia link are mostly taken from her TV show There something about Miriam and are correct as far as i can(i watched the show).She gave herself this informations.

That she was born in Hermisillo or "Hermosa". That she has performed in porno. etc. etc.

How about a source for the pictures in the article. It is obvious to me anyway that she, or an agent acting on her behalf would have to have added those pictures (Where would a stranger get a picture of her at like 11/12 years old?) Does any one know of a source for those pictures, that is willing to put the picures in public domain..or fair use or something. The pictures are important for they conveyed how it was that she could pull off what she did.

I think I will rename this thread the more alarmist "Miriam being deleted from history".

TS's like Miriam are already WAY under represented... what does one little thing like this matter. Little grains of sand add up into mountains. No sand no mountains.

[Ecstatic]

This...her getting only two pieces of mail.... really disappointing indeed.

OK, OK, I'll write! :shock:

:)
Me too. I sent a donation with a note to her PayPal several days ago, but I haven't gotten a card in the mail. My bad.

[BeardedOne]

I think I will rename this thread the more alarmist "Miriam being deleted from history".

And you add your own twist to the Orwellian reality of Miriam. :?

OK, I'm nitpicking here, but it shows how easily the facts change to fit the scenario in this I-want-it-now atmosphere of the all-knowing net.


It is obvious to me anyway that she, or an agent acting on her behalf would have to have added those pictures (Where would a stranger get a picture of her at like 11/12 years old?)

My guess is that it was Miriam herself (Or a very close friend or family member) that posted those. Of course, considering her celebrity (Something about Miriam, Big Brother, etc.) it could just as well be some asshole at News Of The World (The UK tabloid that hounded Caroline Cossey) in an attempt to poke her in the eye.


Does any one know of a source for those pictures, that is willing to put the picures in public domain..or fair use or something.

I have copies of those pictures (Though can't recall the source) as I am sure that many here do. I wouldn't post them in public domain without first getting a nod from Miriam, though. This all goes back to her, really. As much as we all want to know and share her life, encouraged by her celebrity (Before the fall, as it were), she is still someone that needs and desires their privacy.

Meanwhile...

Is Miriam reading these words? Does she know that people worry about and care for her (Beyond the cockbandits that just want to see her back in the viddie scene)?

Nikki? You out there? Can Miriam get to a computer/laptop? We'd love to hear thoughts from her first-hand.

[BeardedOne]

This...her getting only two pieces of mail.... really disappointing indeed.

OK, OK, I'll write! :shock:

:)
Me too. I sent a donation with a note to her PayPal several days ago, but I haven't gotten a card in the mail. My bad.

You know that this is what I was looking for at the gift shop the other day, don't you E?

[BARBIENIKKIXTRAVA]

miriam cannot ype as of yet and def no laptops are allowed in hospitals as far i know --because of intereference with machines --she did have an interview for "THE SUN" paper in london,england i think it is -- i dont know when the article will be published yet--

[hwbs]

i hope she is recovering nicely... please send her all of our love !!!!!!!

[ASSETERIA]

I think I will rename this thread the more alarmist "Miriam being deleted from history".

And you add your own twist to the Orwellian reality of Miriam. :?

OK, I'm nitpicking here, but it shows how easily the facts change to fit the scenario in this I-want-it-now atmosphere of the all-knowing net.


It is obvious to me anyway that she, or an agent acting on her behalf would have to have added those pictures (Where would a stranger get a picture of her at like 11/12 years old?)

My guess is that it was Miriam herself (Or a very close friend or family member) that posted those. Of course, considering her celebrity (Something about Miriam, Big Brother, etc.) it could just as well be some asshole at News Of The World (The UK tabloid that hounded Caroline Cossey) in an attempt to poke her in the eye.


Does any one know of a source for those pictures, that is willing to put the picures in public domain..or fair use or something.

I have copies of those pictures (Though can't recall the source) as I am sure that many here do. I wouldn't post them in public domain without first getting a nod from Miriam, though. This all goes back to her, really. As much as we all want to know and share her life, encouraged by her celebrity (Before the fall, as it were), she is still someone that needs and desires their privacy.

Meanwhile...

Is Miriam reading these words? Does she know that people worry about and care for her (Beyond the cockbandits that just want to see her back in the viddie scene)?

Nikki? You out there? Can Miriam get to a computer/laptop? We'd love to hear thoughts from her first-hand.
IT SEEMS NIKKI..HER PUBLICITY FRIEND..HAS NOT REPLIED TO DONATIONS EITHER OR ALLOW MIRIAMS REAL FRIENDS IN TO SEE HER. LIKE I WOULDNT TAKE A PICTURE WITH HER IN THE HOSPITAL...EW.

[BrendaQG]

Perhaps another name change for this thread. "There's Nothing about Miriam". (rimshot).

I will close by updating what I created this thread about. I have been able to keep that particular article from having so many details deleted that it would be considered for deletion entirely. It seems that by adding the fact that she had been thrown out of a window to the article It drew the attention of some TS's who think that people like Miriam (and incidentally most of the performers on this board) are overrepresented. :-? Misrepresented is more like it.

It is curious that Harisu getting engaged gets mention and this get's nothing. Perhaps that is for the best. If what happened to that wikipedia article is any indication the "transgendered activist " community could be more foe than friend in this case. (I hope they will prove that last sentence wrong, eventaully)

I'm done.

[whatsupwithat]

Wait...no one has written her? That's crazy. What's the address? I'll write.

[wendy48088]

* Deleted *

[BrendaQG]

The trouble is that her reasons for those changes were not entirely motivated from good faith. For instance on my usertalk page(just guess which user is me it shouldn't be hard) she expresses her utter disdain for Miriam and people like her. Me thinks she is somehow associating in her mind another controversial publication from 2003 (ahem!) with that show and Miriam. Then editing, among other things, without realizeing the bias that she showed at times.

I thought she was over that. I guess I was wrong.

[yodajazz]

The trouble is that her reasons for those changes were not entirely motivated from good faith. For instance on my usertalk page(just guess which user is me it shouldn't be hard) she expresses her utter disdain for Miriam and people like her. Me thinks she is somehow associating in her mind another controversial publication from 2003 (ahem!) with that show and Miriam. Then editing, among other things, without realize the Bias that she showed at times.

I thought she was over that. I guess I was wrong.

When you say "Miriam and people like her", I assume that Ms. James means people who work in the adult industry. if so this goes to the heart of another thread started by Peggygee about disunity in the trans community. http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=17826&highlight=
Ms James attitudes seem like your classic class warfare, to me. I do believe that it was wrong to take out the biographical info that they did.

But I will say this, after reading Miriam's bio, I don't think I would have listed the titles of the adult movies that she was in, since she had another 'claim to fame' besides them. It would be different if her career was only as an adult movie entertainer. But that's just my opinion. The article could have said that she was also in some adult films and let those interested do the research.

While on the subject of Miriam. I remember on her now defunked site she said that she would be releasing a music CD soon. It was never released to my knowledge. I wonder if some of the tracks could be dug up, fixed up and release commercially to help pay for her medical bills, etc?

[BeardedOne]

Wait...no one has written her? That's crazy. What's the address? I'll write.

As I've said before, people are lazy and don't write anymore (It's why the PO is leaning more heavily on junque mail every year to make ends meet). Though I need to rant at myself for procrastinating as well. :?

The address that Nikki posted is:

M. SANDERS
P.O.BOX 6194
HOBOKEN,N.J. 07030-7204

Postaly enhanced for speed and accuracy. :)

[BrendaQG]

Yes it did sound like a person who was upper class, who as she has said her self was able to finance her entire transition on a credit card being very harshly judgemental.

Yes this seems to be an example of some people getting prefential treatment. Another would be the case of Izza Lopez a young TS woman who was fired from her job quite unfairly. Where is her petition? Where is her hulabaloo? I could go on. In stead I will retire to my equations for a while. They are simpler.

[MacShreach]

It's very sad, partly from Miriam's POV-- she is a victim here, lest it ever be forgot-- but also from the POV of Wikipedia.

These events demonstrate very clearly why it is that Wikipedia can simply never be relied upon as source material.