u girls with ur issues...

[flabbybody]

It comes down to this:
I dig TS girls and they happen to have dicks
NOT
I dig dick and it happens to be on a TS girl

I fall into the first category. Mega, I hope your post convinced some people there is more than one type of guy in our crazy world. thx for the email and see you tonight.

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

Mega....Not all of us trannies are like what you describe......

Yes...alot of do escort...but some of us do have goals!

Like I said before....Alot of the trannies become trannies for the wrong reason!

Alot of the girls...you guys drool for...I know them before their transition...They were escorting as guys before...They just found it more lucrative as a girl.

They became TS because of MONEY.."STR8" GUYS, LIFESTYLE,

Real transsexual always wanted 2 be girls!

Not come out as a fag first..see what that gives...then meet trannie and get in drags and see what that gives!

Another thing Mega....If the guy offering the "real" relationship was the trannie's type...I'm sure she would more than happy to be involved!

but who wants to settle 4 something they're not attracted to?

That's where the clients and the girls are real different.

Look @ review site...The client bad mouth some of the girls and say...she didnt look like her pix..she was fat..she was manly...but they still stay there and mess with her and pay!

Like I have said numerous times....Most of these trannies you guys like are so far from what they like! You have the MONEY!!! That's it!

[WendyWilliams]

Shade for once I stand up and applaud your response you are 100 right. Especially about the guys who post negative reviews yet stay anyhow. COME ON GUYS!

I too like most trannys would settle down with a guy and give up escorting and so on if the right guy came along but so far its been guys Im not attracted too or guys who say they are ready but would slip into the back room with my ts friend if I wasnt looking :::Shrugs:::.

So I guess its a no win situation for both the girls and guys so might as well be happy doing what we do and be thank ful.

Wendy

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

LMAO!!

1. GIRLS TALK WAY DIFFERENTLY 2 EACH OTHER THAN THEY DO TO A TRICK, CLIENT, SUGAR DADDY OR SOME GUY THAT THEY ARE "TRYING" TO HERB.

2. GIRLS TALK WAY DIFFERENTLY 2 GUYS THEY LIKE ON A PERSONAL LEVEL THAN THE GUYS ABOVE.

3. MOST OF NY TRANNIE SCENE IS GHETTO WITH THE EXCEPTION OF LADIES LIKE ALLANAH, STEPHANIE AND ETC.

4. NO "GHETTO" GIRL WANTS A WHITE OLD MAN AS A MAN. READ NUMBER 1.

5. BEING A ESCORT..U HAVE 2 BE GOOD HUSTLER IF YOU WANT 2 TO MAKE THE MOST YOU CAN.

6. MOST TS GIRLS DONT WANT A RELATIONSHIP WITH A GUY THAT IS A TRANNY CHASER OR WHATEVER U WANT 2 CALL IT. THEY PREFER GUYS THAT ARE "NEW" NOT OUT AND ABOUT.

7. THE REASON 4 NUMBER 6 IS...TRANNIE COMMUNITY IS VERY SMALL WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT. WE ALL KNOW EACH OTHER OR OF EACH OTHER. NO GIRL WANTS ANOTHER GIRL'S LEFTOVERS.

8. ALERT 4 GUYS: TRANNIES DO MEET GUYS BESIDES AT TRANNY CLUBS OR ESCORT ADS OR INTERNET. GUYS DO APPROACH US THE SAME WAY AS THEY APPROACH GG. THIS GOES MOSTLY G 4 THE EXTREMELY PASSABLE GIRLS AND FROM MY EXPERIENCE...85 PERCENT OF MEN DONT CARE ABOUT THE LITTLE SECRET BETWEEN THE LEGS.

[Felicia Katt]

If you want to get respect, you have to give it. Most guys just don't understand that. They treat girls as if the whole world was a TS Disneyland, and we are there, in costume, for their "guest experience". I cannot even being to count the times a guy grabs me, propositions me, asks me personal, or explicitly sexual questions, before he has so much as said hi, or introduced himself. Its so bad out there when guy is simply a gentleman, like Tobie was recently, it really stands out. That should be the rule, not the remarkable.

I agree that girls should be courteous. Its much easier if we are treated with courtesy instead of as courtesans. But keep this in mind:

we don't owe you anything more than that. You have no right to touch us, to interrogate us, to harass us, stalk us or to berate us if we aren't interested.

Maybe YOU don't do that. But the 25 guys before you did, and until you do better, we have no reason anymore to expect you will be any better than they were.

Felicia

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

LOL @ MEGA!

NO TRICK DOES ANYTHING 4 ME! TRUST ME ON THAT!

I PROVIDE 4 MYSELF..I HAVE A REGULAR JOB AND YES I HAVE ESCORTED IN THE PAST.

MAN HATER? LOL AGAIN...I LOVE MEN! I LOVE DICK!

I DON'T LIKE FUSTRATED FAGS, TRICKS, OLD MEN. (I'M 25) SO TO ME ANYTHING OLDER THAT IS OLD 2 ME.

I KNOW I WILL REACH THAT AGE...BUT RIGHT NOW ITS OLD 2 ME.

IF YOU ARE SO DIFFERENT THAT ALL THESE GUYS...WHY EVEN WASTE YOUR TIME TO STATE THAT? WHAT DO YOU HAVE 2 PROVE?

AS MANY TIMES AS YOU GUYS HAVE CRITIZED THE GIRLS..U NEVER SEE ME COME ON HER SAYING..IM DIFFERENT CAUSE I HAVE A JOB OR ETC.

I ALWAYS JUST CLARIFY THINGS IN GENERAL..BECAUSE I KNOW MY REALITY! IM NOT PHASED BY ANYONE.

IT'S LIKE WHEN A REAL STR8 MAN KNOW'S HE REALLY STR8....HE'S SECURE WITH HIS SEXUALITY AND YOU NEVER HEAR HIM BASH ON TRANNIE OR GAY OR LESBIAN OR BI'S OR WHATEVER.

BUT...IF U KNOW U NOT A TRICK OR WHATEVER! PAY ME NO MIND!

YOU AND GOD KNOW THE TRUTH! WHO CARE WHAT I HAVE 2 SAY? I DON'T EVEN HAVE MY PIX AS MY AVATOR...SO WHY SHOULD I MATTER?

I'M WORTHLESS...I'M CRAP...I'M LOSER..I'M FUSTRATED...I'M A MAN..I'M NOT A REAL GIRL....

LOL

GOOD LUCK ON YOUR NYC TRANNIE SEARCH! NO SHADE 8)

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

IM NO OLD WHITEMAN....I LOOOK BETTER THEN THE LITTLE FAGGOT GHETTO BOYZ YALL CRAVE.......ME

I MUST AGREE WITH YOU! LOL

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

You are soo right MEGA!

I don't know what I was going thru....You EAT those guys! I 4got you look like ANTONIO SABATO JR.

If those guys showed up @ Allanah's party...All the girls would be living 4 you instead of them.

The girls would be telling them 2 pay or asking them 4 favors or a drink!

[Ecstatic]

I always say that individuals sexuality are so complex, that sometimes you can't put labels on them like straight or gay ( i think someone else on this board said this too)
Hi hingshing! There more than one of us, but I'm one who has said this here many times, many ways. Human sexuality--to say nothing of gender--is so diverse and multifarious, why don't we just accept who we are and forget about the labels?

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

LMAO...Keep telling yourself that... Hopefully we are still kiki 8)

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

Once again.....

You got me all mixed up!

I never said this was everyone's type!

but to the guys that like the "ghetto" trannies...trust me....they prefer those guys than any white guy!!!

I can bet my life on that.

I have nothing again MEGA... He actually on point...

This is a forum...
Opinions are like assholes..everyone has one!

[ONEWORLD]

DAMN, CAN I LIVE?

DUDES ON THIS SITE, SPEND ALL THEIR TIME TALKING ABOUT WHAT OTHER DUDES ARE DOING…LET THESE GUYS LIVE. YOU SPEND 75% OF A POST KNOCKIN’ THESE DUDES AND THEN COME WITH DISCLAIMERS LIKE “I RESPECT YOU, BUT…” OR “NO DISRESPECT, BUT…”. THAT’S SHADE. I COULD COME ON THIS BOARD, ON SOME BRAND NEW SHIT, SAYING THINGS LIKE “I DATE BEAUTIFUL WOMEN AND TRANSEXUALS THAT LOOK LIKE BEAUTIFUL WOMEN, PERIOD…THIS MEANS THAT 98% OF THE MUSK RATS AT ALLANAH’S PARTY COULDN’T KISS MY SHOES”…BUT I DON’T DENIGRATE OTHER PEOPLES LIFESTYLES. I THINK THE PROBLEM IS SOME DUDES START “FEELING THEMSELVES” WHEN THEY REALIZE THEIR VALUE IN THE TG WORLD. THEY SEE THAT IN THIS ENVIRONMENT THEY ARE HELD IN HIGH ESTEEM AND IN THE REAL WORLD THEY’RE JUST AVERAGE. MY CHALLENGE IS CAN YOU ATTRACT THE SAME LEVEL OF BEAUTY IN BOTH WORLDS?…I KNOW I CAN…WITH THAT SAID, I STILL DON’T CRITICIZE OR DEBASE OTHERS…BUT THAT’S JUST ME.



MOST OF NY TRANNIE SCENE IS GHETTO WITH THE EXCEPTION OF LADIES LIKE ALLANAH, STEPHANIE AND ETC.

THIS PARTICULAR THREAD SHOULD BE RENAMED “ U EAST COAST GIRLS AND YOUR ISSUES”. FROM MY EXPERIENCE, IN THE SOUTH, T-GIRLS AREN’T AS “HUNGRY” AS THE EAST & NORTHEAST. SURE THEY WANT TO EAT, BUT THEY WOULD JUST AS SOON DO DRAG OR SOMETHING…YOU JUST DON’T SEE AS MANY GIRLS BECOMING A TRANSEXUAL AS A HUSTLE. (THINGS ARE CHANGING THOUGH, WITH THE AVAILABILITY OF THIS SILICONE AND THESE SEEDY “PUMP PARTIES”) IF A SOUTHERN GIRL WANTS TO BECOME A TRANSEXUAL, CHANCES ARE IT’S BECAUSE SHE WANTS TO BE A “WOMAN”…SHE COULD STILL EAT DOING DRAG (WITH PADS, MAKE-UP, ETC…)



i just finished reading eclipse's post about bottoms and guys and its so obvious the disdain and hate she has towards said bottoms and probably most tranny chasers regardless of position..but i think its more than that..i think its a self loathing and situational hatred that confounds most TSs..


I AGREE WITH THIS WHOLEHEARTEDLY. SOME OF THE MOST GORGEOUS TRANSEXUALS HAVE THE SELF-LOATHING IMPOSED ON THEM BY SOCIETY. IT MANIFESTS ITSELF WHEN THEY FEEL LIKE SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH YOU BECAUSE YOU CHOOSE TO BE WITH THEM. “YOU CAN GET ANYONE YOU WANT, WHY HER?” ,COMES TO MIND AS A COMMON QUESTION FROM MY GIRL’S MANLY-ASS FRIENDS…THEN YOU EXPLAIN THE REASON AND GET…”UH HUH GIRL, HE JUST WANTS YOUR PENIS GIRL, DON’T LET HIM FOOL YOU”. THE UGLY GIRLS ARE THE BIGGEST OFFENDERS BECAUSE THEY KNOW THERE ARE NOT PASSABLE AND THEREFORE; IF YOU WANT THEM THEN THEY KNOW WHAT YOU WANT. ALSO THEY DON’T WANT TO SEE ANOTHER GIRL LIVING OUT THEIR DREAM…LOL, THIS SELF-ESTEEM ISSUE TURNS ME OFF IN WOMEN, BUT IN TRANSEXUALS, I’VE LEARNED TO “DEAL” WITH IT.

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

I never said anyone was better than anyone.

I just gag @ the things certain tricks do...that's why I had 2 stop escorting.

Do you know how many girls out there have AIDS and the stupid tricks are still swallowing their cum or having unprotected sex?

I don't care what trannie chasers do and dont do. We all can do what we want with our lifes..but I am entitled to voice my opinion.

It just seems that I push almost every guys button in here since I don't sugar coat things.

I came on this shadeboard at first because one of my friends told me 2 look at her pix which were posted from Allanahs party...Then curiousity made me read the other topics.,.and I decided to join to put in my 25 cents.

Yes I do gag..when guys say a girl is BEAUTIFUL just because she has a big cock. When in reality she is butt UGLY.

Yes I do gag..when guys critizie the ESCORTS and never realize maybe the girl just isnt attracted to you..She's doing it 4 the money.

When a guys goes and see a real girl escort...She doesnt have 2 get hard..She lays down and lets the guy fuck. but trannie have 2 get hard..that usually has 2 do with attraction.

Yes I do gag..when guys on this site..make it seem like they are the only guys that like us. There's a whole world out there beside the hungangel board or allanah's party.

If you are not TRANSGENDERED...You don't know everything that happen. You might hear or assume...but you don't know.

We don't just have 2 deal with guys who are tricks or go to trannie partys.

There are alot of men...that are into TRANNIES and don't go to these parties or are part of the site.

This particular group of guys is not our only options!

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

Mega..what are u talking about?

Every single TS that is brought up here is an ESCORT.

Defending myself?

I never said LATIN girls like Ghetto boys.

I said Ghetto girls!

I know various Latin girls that like white men too.

but then again Mega...enlighten us with who your favorite trannies are in NYC? Let's see if they a ghetto latin trannie or just regular latin trannie?

[ONEWORLD]

Yes I do gag..when guys on this site..make it seem like they are the only guys that like us. There's a whole world out there beside the hungangel board or allanah's party.

If you are not TRANSGENDERED...You don't know everything that happen. You might hear or assume...but you don't know.

I AGREE...WE HAVE TOO MANY EXPERTS ON THIS BOARD, YES.



...never said anyone was better than anyone.


THIS WASN'T DIRECTED TOWARD YOU

*EYES LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER*

THIS WAS TOO THE "EXPERTS".



I don't care what trannie chasers do and dont do. We all can do what we want with our lifes..but I am entitled to voice my opinion...

It just seems that I push almost every guys button in here since I don't sugar coat things.

BUT THAT'S A GOOD THING RIGHT?



This particular group of guys is not our only options!

THANK GOD :wink:

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

Yes I do gag..when guys on this site..make it seem like they are the only guys that like us. There's a whole world out there beside the hungangel board or allanah's party.

If you are not TRANSGENDERED...You don't know everything that happen. You might hear or assume...but you don't know.

I AGREE...WE HAVE TOO MANY EXPERTS ON THIS BOARD, YES.



...never said anyone was better than anyone.


THIS WASN'T DIRECTED TOWARD YOU

*EYES LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER*

THIS WAS TOO THE "EXPERTS".



I don't care what trannie chasers do and dont do. We all can do what we want with our lifes..but I am entitled to voice my opinion...

It just seems that I push almost every guys button in here since I don't sugar coat things.

BUT THAT'S A GOOD THING RIGHT?



This particular group of guys is not our only options!

THANK GOD :wink:

LOL...but all those comments werent towards u....Mega was saying things to me.

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

FORGET IT I GIVE UP.........US GUYS ARE ALL PETHETIC AND YOU TRANNYS ARE ALL GODDESSES ...WE ARE LUCKY YOU AKNOWLEDGE OUR LOWLY EXSITANCE,........BY THE WAY WEBCAM IS THE SAME SHIT, WITHOUT GUYS IT DONT WORKOUT, THERES NO COINS....OOOOOPS I MENT US LOW LIFE NO GOOD WHITE OLD GUYS....FEEL BETTER NOW.....YOU GHETTO GIRLS GOT IT GOING ON....IF ONLY I WAS A LATIN GUY FROM THE HOOD SELLING WEED ON THE CORNER WITH HAIR STICKIN OUT MY NOSE AND BAD BREATH,.,......BUT AT LEAST ILL HAVE A BIG DICK AND TRANNYS WOULD LIVE FOR ME....DAMN THE WORLD JUST AINT FAIR

DAMM MEGA....LMAO

IM NOT TALKING ABOUT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIPS...IM TALKING ABOUT PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP.

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

shade u make valid points but i think equal blame can be dished, yet u only rag on the guys...

I gag when butt ugly girls snap their fingers and act up

I gag when heavy set TSs think theyre passable and thus attractive, it so happens when ur chubby that the chubbiness makes u soft and more feminine, but please, ide rather someone slim and a bit hard lol

I gag when a girl gets attitude and power from her more attractive TS friends..u see it all the time, some quiet semi passable girl in a club is all quiet and decent then her big mouthed latin worked up trannie friend shows up and suddenly she gets some wind in her and mouths off and touches u and flips her hair..haha..

I gag when...i can go on hun:)

Shade, im sorry i got personal...was in the heat, man enough to take it back...

and woah woah woah who the fuck dares show up and type in all caps here...MEGA u see the nerve of this guy? lol

Dammm...I can't deny..u made me laugh with that one.

[ONEWORLD]

I THINK YOU'RE CONFUSING "NERVE" WITH BRILLIANCE.

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

Shade, im sorry i got personal...was in the heat, man enough to take it back...

and woah woah woah who the fuck dares show up and type in all caps here...MEGA u see the nerve of this guy? lol

Personal?

Guy?

LOL

[ONEWORLD]

Shade, im sorry i got personal...was in the heat, man enough to take it back...

and woah woah woah who the fuck dares show up and type in all caps here...MEGA u see the nerve of this guy? lol



Guy?


J, NOW NOW, SHADE IS NOT A GUY...















ATLEAST NOT ON THIS BOARD, ANYWAY. :wink:

[steeveX]

delusion....thats the bottom line in trannyworld

obviously on ALL sides (the guys n dickchicks). maybe i am way too short in that subculture , and YES it is a subculture that will NEVER b accepted by the mianstreamworld other than sorta clowns/side show attractions. tgirls: u DONT have much opportunities outside the "scene". no matter how hard u try. u will b cosidered as freaks. guys who have a relationship with a ts also, no matter how "liberal" ur friends appear or talk. the real deal is goin on behind ur backs. tgirls, even when very passable: if straight guys approach you not knowing bout ur cock, most DO care and even if its 85 % who dont (which sumbody stated earlier whick i strongly doubt) it takes those 15 % that DO care to inflict harm on u, even to the point of violence-related deaths after a straight guy got tricked by a tranny and freaked out.

guys, if u suck dick and/or get fucked up the ass, u dont neccesarily have to b gay but u sure aint straight. but then why should u care if u like that. sumone earleir stated "trannychasers" would bang any tranny, ive seen that kinda behaviour with a fair cupla of tgirls myself. even in "relationships" they liked to mess around with other good lookin guys, often to the pint of havin sex with them. maybe i am paranoid, but thats why i still use condoms with my current ts gf, after beein together with her since july. i cant really trust trannies. ive seen sum, no escorts btw, fucking around literally - and one told me thats prolly "the man" still i n em.

and yes, trannies in their twenties are not interested in older white men (above 35) other than in their money. i still feel sorry bout that white guy in his 40ies on a talkshow that paid for surgery of his tranny wife and after the completion she ran off to a younger guy.

ps: another field of delusion is the question of beeing "passable" - those who claim to b "totally passable" most of the time seem to b the same that look like truckers in drag.

[LBCDO]

I can see what Mega, J, and Shade is saying. Trust me, shade is trying to get a point accross, and it goes along with how the topic was started.

Guys, you shouldnt beat yourself up over a TS escort that you feel was strictly business with you. Like Shade said, the honest truth is that simply because you are paying them for sex doesnt mean they are going to make love to you. They dont have to like you, they dont have to kiss and whisper to you [many reviews will let you know that], and they donthave to so shit but try to help you get a nut. And its not regulated, so there is no guarantee that'll happen. But in all honesty, its a toss up. Dont stress yourself over if the girl loves you, might love you, etc. Its business, you contacted them in a business manner, your chances of hooking up on the side are slimer if you met them at the mall or movie theatre [*BTW, if more guys actaully hollered at TSs out in public besides parties, etc, it shows you arent afraid to BE with them in public, approach in front of friends, etc.]

What shade is trying to get accross, at least what i think she is, isnt as insulting as people are making it out to be. Her point is this. If you are 50 years old, you usually wouldnt think about your average relationship being with a 22 year old, especially one who is ummm... in the sex industry. You would think a 50 y/o would be with a someone AT LEAST in the 30+ age range. Yea, it happens, but its not typical. So if you are a TS, why would you expect someone 58+ as a top candidate for a boyfriend? Especially when you see that the guy in that age range only comes to "the hood" when its time for him to hit the stroll and pick up some trim. Is it making sense? You can be the most good hearted person in the world, but if you arent someones type, you cant force it upon them.

I started liking TSs at 16. Im 21 now. ive been having relationships with them for the past 3 years. I have been with girls in every situation, hair salon, movies, at their home wiht their parents, malls, concerts, str8 cubs, TS clubs, gay-lez clubs, friends houses, doctors offices, everywhere. Ive seen how dudes approach the girls, what is said, etc. and most of the time its wack. Ill admit, i can certify that most of the guys who have the most success with TSs are the YOUNGER, THUGGED OUT TYPE, MEDIUM BUILT CATS! They arent the image of a typical "chaser". It just makes it easier to approach. I know some older cats who have gotten with the baddest chicks, best girls, etc. because they game is tight. If you got game, trust me it helps, but think about what the girls are looking for and be realistic. I want to hooko up with christina milian, but because I like her, if I meet her, im not gonna assume she is gonna want to fall in love with me. Stop being in that mindframe! Move on!

Also, as said before, it may be a east coast thing. I know a couple girls here in ATL from NY and NJ and they are different mentally than girls here in the south. Not a bad thing, just that they're mind is different. But guess what? When I holla at a NY GG girl, I change my game up as well! NY girls have showed me nothing but love, so no biggy here, but maybe some of you would have better success in ATL. The avg stollaholic is black and 25+. But there are some girls who give the white guys a chance! If only if I could find some damn spanish girls here, damn!

[LBCDO]

YOU GHETTO GIRLS GOT IT GOING ON....IF ONLY I WAS A LATIN GUY FROM THE HOOD SELLING WEED ON THE CORNER WITH HAIR STICKIN OUT MY NOSE AND BAD BREATH,.,......BUT AT LEAST ILL HAVE A BIG DICK AND TRANNYS WOULD LIVE FOR ME....DAMN THE WORLD JUST AINT FAIR

HEY I RESENT THAT COMMENT! IM 50% HISPANIC!

It just goes to honestly what a girl is thinking about getting with! Im a good friend with a very well known, young TS here in ATL. She says straight up, and older white guy will treat you extremely well and good, but then your hooking up for reasons besides who you LIKE, but who likes you. Think about it, when you fantasize about a girl or TS, what type of women do you fantasize about? Older, larger, hairy? The mindfuck of it is that its easy to slip into the filter for that type of person when you meet guys every day of the week. You feel like the guys with good intentions are a dime a dozen! But you want the supermodels!

And I laughed my ass off about the Big girl getting an attitude b/c of her friend post, or semi passable girl, etc. LOL. Ive seen that shit happen ALL the damn time. Like I said, past like 3 years, real relationships, seen it all. If you recognize the following words:

Trade
Fish
Butch Queen
Fem Queen
DOOOOWN
Fierce

Then you prolly know some TSs and seen some behind the scenes shit, LOL

[GroobySteven]

Man, am I the only guy having a good time in the scene?
If I was a jaded, as introspective, as whining and as confused as most of you guys, I'd quit and look for my kicks elsewhere.
Just enjoy it and go with it. I've been in this scene for 7 yrs, don't feel the need to put a specific label on myself or my sexuality, have dated some of the most famous and best looking TS's in the world - in the US, in Brazil, in Asia and in Europe - some for pay, some absolutely not. Had a longterm (over a year relationships) with a hot TS who many of you know, had other girls come visit me as friends, had tears, had fights and many more good times.
There are a handful of people on this site who are so focused on the negative, so unwilling to see that there is more than one way, more than one path and more than one tranny...or tranny chaser/admirer that everyone must conform to their point of view.

To everyone who reads these forums who aren't part of the handful of doomsayers, get out there and enjoy the scene, be who you want to be without feeling the need to put a label on yourself, don't think every tgirl out their is just after your money or that younger tighter guy (they're not trust me) and just be cool.

seanchai

[ONEWORLD]

ts are not women. regardless how much they think they are. fucked up in their head of sum sort and to different degrees, same goes with the guys into them (me included). i had the balls to start a relationship and put my interest into practice. i realized the ts xperience is just too weird for me to handle. i am withdrawing from it. ther goes out a warning to u guys - a long lasting relationship with a ts is impossible.


YES, I TOO FELT THE WAY YOU DO NOW. AFTER JUST TWO RELATIONSHIPS WITH TRANSEXUAL WOMEN, LIKE MEGA, I FELT LIKE I HAVE TOO MUCH TO GIVE TO SETTLE…I WAS MORE THAN HAPPY DATING WOMEN…BUT THEN I MET MY CURRENT ANGEL. SHE’S A RARE COMBINATION OF YOUTH AND WISDOM. SHE’S YOUNG ENOUGH TO HAVE NOT PICKED UP A LOT OF THE BAD HABITS OR MADE SOME OF THE MISTAKES OF THE OLDER GIRLS, AND SHE’S WISE TO LISTEN TO ME, LOL…SINCE I’M MORE EXPERIENCED IN THESE TYPE OF RELATIONSHIPS. YOUNG GIRLS ARE NOT THAT BAD IF YOU SEPARATE THEM FROM THEIR ENVIRONMENT AND FRIENDS.



ps: another field of delusion is the question of beeing "passable" - those who claim to b "totally passable" most of the time seem to b the same that look like truckers in drag.

LOL...HEY FELLAS, THESE GIRLS ARE MASTERS OF ILLUSION…THAT’S ONE REASON I LOVE THEM; THEY TAKE SUCH PRIDE IN THEIR APPEARANCE AND THAT’S WHY THEY LOVE ME, I DO THE SAME; BUT YOU NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, TAKE A PICTURE OF TRANSEXUAL WOMAN AS BEING AUTHENTIC…BUT IF YOU HAVE AN APPRECIATION FOR GENETIC FEMALES, THEN IT’S NOT HARD TO CLOCK THE HOT ONES…GET INTO SMOOTH JOINTS (KNEES, ELBOWS, AND SHOULDERS) AND SLENDER DELICATE HANDS…AND IF YOU TALK TO HER BEFORE HAND, ASK ONE QUESTION: HOW TALL ARE YOU? THIS WILL SPEAK VOLUMES…



I gag when a girl gets attitude and power from her more attractive TS friends..u see it all the time, some quiet semi passable girl in a club is all quiet and decent then her big mouthed latin worked up trannie friend shows up and suddenly she gets some wind in her and mouths off and touches u and flips her hair..haha..


LMAO...YES, I ALWAYS MAKE SURE THEY LOSE THAT ATTITUDE RIGHT AWAY. WE’RE ALL CHILLAX, THEN WHEN WE GET AROUND HER FRIENDS OR GET MAD…YOU HEAR ”HONEY?” AND ALL THAT OTHER “GAY SHIT”…I MAKE IT CLEAR, SAVE ALL THAT SHIT FOR THE KIDS, I’M NOT PART OF THAT WORLD.



Like I said, past like 3 years, real relationships, seen it all...

I THINK THE KEY WORD THERE IS “REAL RELATIONSHIP” MEANING EXTENSIVE COMMUNICATION…I HOPE THAT’S THE CASE.
NO SHADE. BUT WHAT YOU DESCRIBE AS “SEEN IT ALL” THAT SEEMS LIKE JUST THE FIRST LEVEL. THERE ARE TWO LEVELS TO THE DECEPTION. THE 1ST IS WHEN SHE’S COMFORTABLE AND VULNERABLE ENOUGH TO SHARE HER STORY AND YOU MAY EVEN BE AROUND TO HEAR AND CONTRIBUTE TO CONVERSATIONS WITH HER FRIENDS., PICK UP THE VENACULAR, ETC…THEY TELL YOU JUST ENOUGH TO PUT YOU AT EASE AND CHANGE YOU INTO “CAPTAIN SAVE-A-HOE”… *IN AN OMINOUS TONE* BEWARE…THEY ARE TELLING YOU WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO KNOW. THE 2ND LEVEL IS ACHIEVED WHEN EVERYTHING YOU’VE BEEN TOLD AND YOU THINK YOU KNOW HAS BEEN FLIPPED ON IT’S HEAD, WHEN THE ACTIONS OF YOUR GIRL, HER FRIENDS, AND THEIR WORLD CONTRADICTS EVERYTHING YOU’VE BEEN TOLD…*SPOOKY SOUNDS IN THE BACKGROUND*




PS. I’M NOT INCLUDING THE LOAD OF CRAP THAT THE GIRLS TELL THE TRICKS…EVERYONE KNOWS THAT A PORTION OF THAT $200 AN HOUR GOES INTO THE COST OF MAKING UP THAT BULLSHIT…LOL…TELL THE ESCORT THAT YOU DON’T WANT THE “STORY” AND SHE’LL IMMEDIATELY KNOCK OFF $25, LOL.

[GroobySteven]

more fun

[GroobySteven]

More fun

[ONEWORLD]

Man, am I the only guy having a good time in the scene?
If I was a jaded, as introspective, as whining and as confused as most of you guys, I'd quit and look for my kicks elsewhere.
Just enjoy it and go with it...


LOL...YESSSSSSSS.


PS. naty001.jpg IS NOT BAD. I'M GETTING INTO THE SOFTNESS UNDER HER THIGH...

[GroobySteven]

Naty is a cutie from a new photographer in Argentenia we're trying out - nice photos but the videos are great if you're into ass (like me!)
These sets aren't on the site yet!
seanchai

[LBCDO]

BUT WHAT YOU DESCRIBE AS “SEEN IT ALL” THAT SEEMS LIKE JUST THE FIRST LEVEL. THERE ARE TWO LEVELS TO THE DECEPTION. THE 1ST IS WHEN SHE’S COMFORTABLE AND VULNERABLE ENOUGH TO SHARE HER STORY AND YOU MAY EVEN BE AROUND TO HEAR AND CONTRIBUTE TO CONVERSATIONS WITH HER FRIENDS., PICK UP THE VENACULAR, ETC…THEY TELL YOU JUST ENOUGH TO PUT YOU AT EASE AND CHANGE YOU INTO “CAPTAIN SAVE-A-HOE”… *IN AN OMINOUS TONE* BEWARE…THEY ARE TELLING YOU WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO KNOW. THE 2ND LEVEL IS ACHIEVED WHEN EVERYTHING YOU’VE BEEN TOLD AND YOU THINK YOU KNOW HAS BEEN FLIPPED ON IT’S HEAD, WHEN THE ACTIONS OF YOUR GIRL, HER FRIENDS, AND THEIR WORLD CONTRADICTS EVERYTHING YOU’VE BEEN TOLD…*SPOOKY SOUNDS IN THE BACKGROUND*


Exactly how you said it, like how I described. But by no means is that the my entire outlook! I have seen all that shit flip outward, and found out that my "girl" made up an entire life of stories to tell me, while escorting [which she didnt tell me] and attempting to use me for my money, car, social status at the time, etc. Trust me, Ive seen that spectrum! But Ive been there, and seen how the other girls flip out on their dates etc. Ive "played possum" while asleep and heard the convos, or straight up heard the girls talk shit. Like shade said, the entire TS community knows or knows of each other. Its crazy, and nobody is really immune to a "girl gone wild".

[LBCDO]

BTW, Krysteen and Mora are my faves from the new pics!

[TS SASHA]

Wowww, feelin it on tha gurls time? ... well, i cant speak 4 tha rest of tha gurls cuase im new 2 all this and dont know many of them, but i speak 4 me and tha few i do know ... im 21 blatina not from tha hood, i go 2 college full time, have a 3.5 GPA and work 2 jobs and they r not escorting or workin in a club and live dolo ... so yes i feel it, but dont put use all in tha same group, cause u dont know all of us .... and if u want proff, see me, ill e-mail u my reportcard/trans ... thank u 4 your timen

[eclipse2000b]

Responding to J's original post that claims that ts women suffer from 'self-hate and situational self-loathing." But first:

Absolute Shade rules! She has great insight and tells it like it is without pulling punches. She's told you guys stuff that you don't want to hear, but she is quite accurate in my humble opinion.

Now back to the hate and self-loathing business. Personally, I'm easy going and in fact have worked with glbt questioning youth. I'm also considering becoming a 'big sister' now that the program accepts glbt persons. I have friends and family, so I'm pretty far from the sad, pathetic, self-hating tranny that is the stereotype. If I hate myself it's because I bought a Grand Prix instead of a Chyrsler 300!

J, guys like you (I don't mean this to sound like an attack: it's merely conversational) are the ones most divorced from reality. Hence all of the silly names instead of dealing with the body part that you are so enamored of: the penis. So 'shecock' & "boyclit' and all of those other silly, delusional terms to avoid dealing with the fact that you are sucking a plain old dick. One of the most popular threads on this board is 'bulges and filled underwear.' Yet most of you guys claim to be 'straight'.... I could easily see that thread getting just as much action at cruisingforsex, as long as they didn't have to look at the tits & most of my clients ignored them anyway. So I'd say a tranny chaser claiming 'straight' is delusional. (Bisexual is more appropriate if you are still having intimate relations with ggs which alot of you are not.)

A lot of guys bitch and moan because these young 20 year olds won't give them the time of day unless they rustle up cash. As Shade has pointed out, let's be real, 20 year old girls, gg or trans, are gonna be after a muscle bound hottie near their own age. Also, with the penchant for being sodomized that most of tranny chasers have, what's in it for the hottie 20 year old girl? Think about it, you guys are fascinated by cock, yet claim that you don't want men because of body hair, etc. Well, why are 20 year old trans girls supposed to be all hot and bothered by your ass? Why wouldn't she prefer a 20 year old muscular guy who listens to the same music as she does, shares similar life experiences, and wants to treat her like a woman (in the bedroom as well as out)? When I was 20 year old I wanted to date 20 year olds. At that point in my life I thought 30 year olds were ancient. Now that I'm 30 I prefer 30 year olds, although I don't think 40 is so ancient. I think that's part of human nature. Also, if you are a 50 year old tranny chaser are you really gonna know much about 50cent, X, Nick & Jesica, etc? What does it say about your mental development if you are 50 years old, and you want to hangout with a girl young enough to be your daughter or granddaughter?

A good solution for you tranny chasers that are older, not a hottie, etc., and don't want to pay is to seek out a trans your own age. (if a trans is what you must have) But we both know that's impractical. You guys think you are too good to be with a transwoman who is older or not the best passer. On the flip side, they don't want a guy on his knees begging to be penetrated. They will not tolerate a man who says he's straight buy turns into a queen in the bedroom.

Eclipse, you are right. There's a wide variety of human sexualities and diversity among humans. However, in the social sciences it is common to use generalizations to come to larger understandings of society. I do agree with you: if you tranny chasers want to be sodomized, that's perfectly fine by me. Some of my best friends are big time pogues 8) However, I have to take issue with your statement that we should "accept who we are and forget the labels." On the surface of it your statement is correct and harmless. But that's ignoring hard social realities.

The fact is that tranny chasers are having as much gay sex as any gay man, lesbian or trans. There's a social and political cost to what we do sexually and it spills over into our day-to-day lives. When I was working on hate crimes legislation, I remember being at a brainstorming session. Around the table was a motley, but dedicated crew of gay men, lesbians, transsexuals (mtf & ftm), drag queens, crossdressers and straight allies. There was not a single tranny chaser there. How many tranny chasers do AIDS walks, or help out in the community in any way? While your patronage helps to support many young women, on the other hand your invisibility reinforces the notion that being with a transgendered woman is beyond the pale. As Allanah's tired little queen of an "admirer" proved, as long as it is on the down-low, tranny chasing and gay sex is fine. The rest of us, whether lesbian, gay male, bisexuals, etc live with social realities every day. You get the benefits of dicks in your mouth and ass, but there's not a National Organization of Tranny Chasers that I know of... This is not to say that EVERY tranny chaser is closeted and non-supportive, but you guys know that what I'm saying is pretty accurate.

I think one of the major things that I was pointing out is that when you are big-time bottoms it's not the ideal for most transwomen. True, their are a few out their that truly like to penetrate men. But you know that percentage is pretty low. You guys bitch and moan in reviews if a girl can't get an errection to fuck your ass, but the simple fact is that is not how most of us are hard-wired. I can't say I've ever looked at a guy's ass and thought "damn! I want to do that..." My dick feels like wood from taking estradiol shots and spiro. I could care less about the stupid thing and will be glad to be rid of it. GID tends to do that.... Moreoever, I think that this is another key factor why few transwomen want a chaser. Most of you guys worship ('packed bulges and underwear or whatever the title is....) the part of our bodies that we are least comfortable with... We don't have GID because we are wild about having a dick :o As Shade pointed out, is that many of us get approached by guys at the laundrymat, 7-11 and other places like any other woman. She's and some of the other trans have pointed out that tranny chasers grab hair, ask intimate questions, feel you up and so on in manner that more resembles the slave auction inspections than a collection of 'admirers.' For most of us GID types, guys near our own age and who see us simply as women in and out of the bedroom are the ideal.

Finally, Eclipse. Indeed Julius Caesar liked a piece of male ass from time to time. However, the social context was different so the comparison makes little sense when dealing with the contemporary. More importantly, in the Greco-Roman trandition, adult men were to allowed to have young men as lovers. As long as they (older men) did not allow the young men to dominate them (bottom!), and produced a male heir all was cool. If however, the older man became the pogue, then he was socially ostracized. The Emperor Hadrian also fit this mold as did Alexander: they conformed to the expected gender norms of their society and class station. In other words, bottoming was out....

[Shining Star]

Hello You All,

Have been lurking around this board for ages, but thought this topic was too good to miss, so here I am.

First should say have been around the trannie "scene" a long time. At least since the days of "Grapevine", "Fabric Factory", and "GG B's". Mind you was often too young to be in most of those clubs, but times were different then and you could get in to bars underage and if you behaved yourself things went ok. Now onto the topic,

Everyone has posted good points, but somethings are almost a universal truth when it comes to the TG community and those that "love them".

1, The kind of man/woman/trannie a person wants to find waiting, is not always the kind willing to wait. That means the person most trannies or admires are seeking are not the ones seeking them.

Have known lots of trannies with dreams of meeting "Mr. Right" and living happily ever after. Trouble is "Mr. Right " is usually a man with Ford model looks, sucessful and or wealthy, will treat them like a "lady", marry and blah, blah, blah. Well usually it does not work out this way. A guy may have "Ford model" looks, but only want trannie sex, or he may be older but sucessful/wealthy, so you see there is alwasy something "wrong" with the guy.

Even when a trannie happens to find a guy who fits all the criteria, there is usually "something" waiting to come out. Things like he's married, or likes to wear women's clothes, deals drugs, or a host of other flaws that make him suddenly unacceptable.

As for the trannie "chasers", all seem to want a "young" beautiful, passable, smooth, trannie who has 10 inches (functional) who may like to "top". This girl must be understanding of any situations (marriage, dating gg's, etc) and available on short notice for him to come over and "watch TV".

An over simplification? Yes, but pretty much covers a broad enough ground to be average. So in short the two sides are always looking for something that is not likely to happen.

Have met many young trannies at clubs going through the same problems we all went though at one point or another. Boy meets trannie at club, boy and trannie hit it off, boy and trannie go home and knock boots, boy may call trannie agian or not, trannie spies boy at club a few weeks later with new trannie. And so it goes.

Someone mentioned the trannie scene is all "ghetto". Well yes, if one defines the "scene' as bars, clubs and ads. But there are quite a few trannies out there, black, white, latina, etc who want nothing to do with the "scene" . They may or may not have escorted, but by and large they go/went to school and get up every day and go to work. What kind of work do they do? Nurses, flight attendants, office work, beauty/hair/nail salons, retail, fashion and so on. What is important is they get up every day and do something with their lives.

Escorting? Sure it has been around for ages, but back in the "day" most trannies worked to pay for the operation(s), then moved on. Today it seems to be career choice number 1 for many young trannies and that to me is sad. How happy can a person be when day after day, year after year allowing persons intimate access to their bodies (and vice versa). Persons they may find distasteful or wouldn't even speak to in the street. Persons who want to degrade and humiliate them ( let me come on your face baby! ). Is it any wonder when you read reviews of escorts guys complain the girls have an "attitude". It must be pretty difficult to steel one's self to engage in yet another unwanted sexaul encounter because the rent is due and there is not a cent in the kitty.

Back to the trannie "scene".

Has anyone ever wondered why in a great city like NYC there is not ONE dedicated trannie bar? Those old enough to remember Grapevine, and Fabric Factory know the "scene" was much different then. Those were bars where one could go to just have a drink and chat with other trannies/TV and guys. If you met someone and went home, well that was your thing. Sally's was the "working" bar and if you went there you went with a different mindset.

Today walking into a trannie bar is like a Bangkok brothel. Guys pulling, grabbing,touching asking "hey what size are those", " Is all this real" etc. Not all trannies are angels either. Running around half naked, performing sex acts in very dark corner/bathroom. It all feeds into the general population's image that all transexuals are whores/sluts and trannie chasers can get whatever they want for the right price.

Do trannies have issues? Sure, being a trannie is hard enough; but add coming from a not so great background, being black or latino/a and little to no self esteem it is a wonder many survive at all. Those that do seem to cope by building a "world" for themselves that get's them through. This world may include drugs or excessive drinking and or risky behaviour, such as unprotected sex, or just being "hard".

The "Operation"

The only reason to ever get the "chop" is because YOU want it. I'll say it again, "THE ONLY REASON TO GET THE "CHOP" IS BECAUSE YOU WANT IT". The sex change operation only changes the way you go to the bathroom, wear clothes and have sex. If you were spooked before, you'll be spooked afterwards. Many girls think having the operation will increase their earnings as they can now "work" as a GG. Don't bet on it. You could be so passable as to win an Oscar, but most guys "know" something just isn't right. You may fool some of the guys some of the time, but not 100 percent all of the time.

As for dating post op, did you know more than half or more of post of trannies become lesbians? Yes it is true. That is mainly because finding someone to "love" them becomes difficult post operation. Straight guys usually don't want a trannie, and most trannie chasers want a girl with a working penis. So what's left? You are stuck with a hole that requires frequent maintainence and a body morphing into something you hadn't expected.

Advice for trannies:

Same as for women/gg's. Stop living your lives for a man. Stop all the useless energy, time and money in the chase of getting man and work on you and your life. Escort if you have to but go to school or get some sort of career before you end up with a rapsheet (which makes life MUCH harder),and get out.

There is another home truth, there are few to no wealthy "providers" Those that managed to make some money had good business skills and talent. Sure when a provider is young and "new" she is making $$$$ a week, but that period does not last long. There are new girls coming up every day and guys like "new". Soon instead of turning down clients, you'll be working hard just to make your monthly nut. When you start working that hard out of desperation you make mistakes. Mistakes that can at worst cost you your life/physical harm, at best make you a guest of local/state LE. Either way you loose.

As the song says:

Young girls you know you better watch out, some guys are only about, that thing!

Be true to yourself and get something unlike Gucci's and Prada's that cannot be taken away from you. Self respect.

[Ecstatic]

Eclipse, you are right. There's a wide variety of human sexualities and diversity among humans. However, in the social sciences it is common to use generalizations to come to larger understandings of society. I do agree with you: if you tranny chasers want to be sodomized, that's perfectly fine by me. Some of my best friends are big time pogues 8) However, I have to take issue with your statement that we should "accept who we are and forget the labels." On the surface of it your statement is correct and harmless. But that's ignoring hard social realities.
Eclipse: a little Freudian slip on your part there? :lol: Yes, you're right, in the social sciences you need to use generalizations to form more comprehensive assessments. I fully agree with that; sociologists and anthropologists use inductive reasoning to build a general conclusion supported by individual cases. The opposite, however, is nonetheless true: applying those generalizations to individuals (deductive reasoning, from the general to the specific) often proves false because individuals are not universal. You can (and the arguments on this board often do--on both sides of this issue) over simplify and reach hasty generalizations about individuals by looking at them deductively, as "examples" of "types" (e.g., he's a tranny chaser therefore he only worships cock).

I think there's a balance point between these two extremes: rely too much on labels, and you pigeonhole people and create unnecessary tension; completely ignore labels or types and you get blindsided by those "hard social realities," and what's worse, you erect barriers to change. If you want to typecast me as a tranny chaser, go ahead: I certainly superficially fit into one of your types (white, over 50, loves an attractive girl who tops), but I'm much more than that, and relying solely on that taxonomy reduces who I am and prevents potential growth. I'm more than that type; I'm also bi and a girl's dick is not my main or only focus. I've posted before that when I'm with a TS, she usually goes for cock before I do, and it's about 50/50 whether she goes for mine or directs me to hers. I much prefer a longer build up, with the focus being on all of her body (and mine). Of course, I love her dick--I wouldn't be here if I didn't--but if she's not into topping, that's perfectly ok with me. Of the three girls whose company I've enjoyed the most, one is extremely versatile (though she says she prefers topping) and our sessions can and do go any way we want, another is almost exclusively a top, and the third is a bottom only.

Anyway, my point is that generalizations are helpful in comprehending social patterns and human behavior in broad strokes, but become reductionist and limiting typecasting on the individual level.


Finally, Eclipse. Indeed Julius Caesar liked a piece of male ass from time to time. However, the social context was different so the comparison makes little sense when dealing with the contemporary. More importantly, in the Greco-Roman trandition, adult men were to allowed to have young men as lovers. As long as they (older men) did not allow the young men to dominate them (bottom!), and produced a male heir all was cool. If however, the older man became the pogue, then he was socially ostracized. The Emperor Hadrian also fit this mold as did Alexander: they conformed to the expected gender norms of their society and class station. In other words, bottoming was out....
My point had nothing to do with whether Caesar was the passive or active partner in sex with men (you're quite right afaik regarding the customs of the time); it was that we shouldn't allow social norms to dictate our range of behavior. Yes, the social context was different, but quite the opposite of what you're saying, that's what gives it relevance "when dealing with the contemporary"--or would you rather see American sexual behavior (to say nothing of gender or other aspects of our nature) be dictated by the moral values crusade of the neocon right? You say "they conformed to the expected gender norms of their society and class station": so are you saying that we should conform to the norms of our society and class station today? Just because society in general (and now we're talking 10,000 foot view sweeping generalization) frowns on gay sex or men being bottom, that doesn't mean we should condemn or avoid it. Rather it is incumbent upon us to change those norms, to liberate ourselves from the constraints of expected and acceptable behavior.

[eclipse2000b]

Well-written Ecstatic & Shining Star. I want to respond a bit to some of your points.

First, Shining Star: in many ways you make a good assessment of the tranny chaser/transwomyn nexus I think you are absolutely right about the dangers involved in working and particularly how we walk around clubs naked. In one of my early posts I raised the same criticism of my community. Even though we may not all feel that we are womyn, we need to behave with a sense of proper decorum. I went with one of my best friends (lesbian) to one of NYC's now defunct bars about a year ago. She was amazed by how pretty the women were on the average; horrified by all of the grandfatherly types pawing them up and apalled by the public displays of nudity.

But Shining Star, while I believe you do make some good points, you also make some bad ones. First, you claim that 50% of transwomen turn lesbian after srs because they can't find a man. I don't know where you got your figure from b/c you don't cite any source, but from what I've read in True Selves, and other psychological literature dealing with the transgendered, we have slightly more of a rate of homosexuality within our community than society at large. What I'm suggesting is that these women were lesbians before srs and simply used escorting as a stepping stone. In fact, one of my good personal friends is still in the business, fucks men in the ass. However, when we would go out to clubs, she was eyeing up the women, and got lucky as much as any genetic guy. As Absolute Shade has pointed out and lbcdo confirmed transwomen talk differently among themselves than when trade is around. You don't really know us our lives: you know our dicks.

Shining Star you also repeated some of the tired old stereotypes about srs. The procedure is so much more effective today than it was in the 70s and 80s. Drs. Meltzer, Suporn, Brassard, Schrang, Reed, Chettawhutt, Bowers, and so on are doing fantastic work. A neovagina does need to be dialated, but after the initial surgery, (and they remove the packing) it's no big deal. Moreover, what 20-40 year old woman's vagina doesn't need maintence?

Finally, Star, about the drug use. You admit you've been around the "scene" for a long time. Like people of your generation used pot, listened to the "Doors," and some did LSD so does this generation take X& Coke and listen to hip hop and trance. Some smoke herb, and others drink. I think recreational drug use is something that is relatively common among 20 year olds. When I was in my twenties I did all of that stuff frequently and then moved on with my life. I suspect that the vast majority of these young women will do the same. Of our past two presidents both used drugs recreationally, although Clinton didn't inhale. 8) I think your comment is essentially further proof that because a lot of tranny chasers are WAY older than their prey, they misinterpret things that are relatively normal behavior for their age/context/culture.

Eclipse, you write well, but I think you conclusions are faulty in this last post. If social categories don't apply to people because of the widespread diferences between individuals then how do you explain such meaningful social categories such as race? In a perfect world everyone would say that "oh, I'm just a unique person and I refuse to acknowledge racial categories." That would be great if we could do that, but again, those hard social realities creep in. Denton & Massey proved that for African Americans high levels of racial segregation in contemporary society neatly corresponds with areas of concentrated poverty. People in racial groups often share inequal access to power and economic opportunity. All of these conclusions prove that race, as a social category does have existential relevance. Obviously gender and other broad categories do have meaning in an individual's life.

Yes, Eclipse, you are a tranny chaser, but you are also alot of other things as well. Every human is complex and intersects with various cultures and subcultures. I was not being overly simplistic or reductionist by lumping transfans together. But I think it's pretty clear that their is a subculture that fetishes the male penis, but seeks satisfaction of their urges through contact with transsexuals.

Now about Julius Caesar, Eclipse you want to have it both ways. You used him as an example of a strong man who nevertheless liked to be fucked by men. You wrote: "But the gender diversity of humans is even more complex than that; men (like myself) who have no wish to become women nor see ourselves as "born in the wrong body" nonetheless derive pleasure from activities often not associated with masculinity--such as being bottom (never mind that such historically powerful men as Julius Caesar also enjoyed a good butt fuck)." So you see, the example you used was not correct because Caesar did not allow himself to be penetrated after reaching adulthood. Different context; different mores and incorrect use of examples...

In that post you also wrote: "In other words, you enjoy being bottom--but it's wrong for a man to enjoy being bottom unless he's a) gay and with another man or b) transitions to being a woman? That's far too limiting a range. " Now I have never said that it's 'wrong' for men to seek anal sex with themselves as the passive partner. There's nothing wrong with that at all. I brought this up in the context of a larger discussion of why transwomen so frequently won't date chasers and diss them. One of the overarching themes of all these posts is the dysfunctional relationship between transwomen and admirers. I was attempting to explain why that is so.

All of you guys that were complaining about the twenty something thuggy guys that young girls seem to prefer have to realize that the vast majority of these thugs aren't going down on their knees begging to be dominated. Really--do you think genetic women go around looking for men to penetrate? (don't try the strap-on argument, most are sold to lesbians). The simple fact that you lose that masculinity when you are begging to suck dick or get fucked in the ass is why transwomyn seek relationships far afield from the tranny chaser scene. Women don't lust after Vin Disel, Ben Affleck, or Nick Lachey because they are great bottoms. It's the intrinsic masculinity in these guys that makes them so attractive. I don't think these guys would get tired of being men and somehow need to be anally dominated in order to relax. If genetic females don't want a guy based on his ability to be sodomized or perform fellatio, why would the large majority of transwomen who see themselves as essentially women?

About client sessions. Alot of guys use the excuse 'well, the session started and she just shoved her dick in my mouth." It's pretty clear that's a tactic to get this session started and over as quick as possible. I've done this myself on occasion when I used to work. I could tell that a lot of the guys wanted extended foreplay, etc. However, it's a business transaction, not love that we engage in. You are most likely not someone I'd ever choose to have sex with for free. So anything to get it over with quicker. Alot of this goes back to the same old theme about age differences. How can you guys, 50 and over honestly expect a 20 year old to be hot and bothered about your flabby belly, hairy ass, and limp dicks? Most of the women are just not hard-wired to be sexually attractive to passive men in the first place, so it's really nothing personal.

For most of us, we knew something of our GID at an early age. The things that I found attractive (and my friends do as well) about men is their masculinity; sexual dimorphism (yes it does exist, on average men are taller and heaveier than women) and the need for you that exists ina hetero relationship between a man and a woman. A big difference between straight guys and tranny chasers is that a tranny chaser always asks "what are you into?" (all the while hoping to hear "I'm a fierce top and want to fuck your ass good!) A straight guy KNOWS what you are into....

[Ecstatic]

Well-written Ecstatic & Shining Star. I want to respond a bit to some of your points.
Likewise, Eclipse. I appreciate reading your comments because you are articulate and informed and have put a lot of thought into these topics. Even if we don't quite agree on all the points, it's great that we can engage in a true dialogue about these issues. That alone is worthwhile.


Eclipse, you write well, but I think you conclusions are faulty in this last post. If social categories don't apply to people because of the widespread diferences between individuals then how do you explain such meaningful social categories such as race? In a perfect world everyone would say that "oh, I'm just a unique person and I refuse to acknowledge racial categories." That would be great if we could do that, but again, those hard social realities creep in. Denton & Massey proved that for African Americans high levels of racial segregation in contemporary society neatly corresponds with areas of concentrated poverty. People in racial groups often share inequal access to power and economic opportunity. All of these conclusions prove that race, as a social category does have existential relevance. Obviously gender and other broad categories do have meaning in an individual's life.
It's funny how easy it is when typing one of these involved posts to slip a tad; once again here (and below), you type your own nick rather than mine, going from ec- to -lipse rather than -static. :lol: Sometimes we type too fast!

I could mount an argument that race in this instance is a faulty analogy insofar as it is as much a biological fact as a social construct, but the key point is that the social construct is how members of a society respond to race (or any other category). I agree that our society (assuming that we are both Americans informed by a predominately Western cultural frame--which might not be true, but I'll assume it is) functions partly based upon the interactions and relationships of various broad categories such as race, gender, sex, class, income, and education, and that our society is not a perfect society (defined as a society in which these broad categories did not inform our relative positions in or behavior expected as members of any given categories). However, I maintain that it is incumbent upon us to work towards this "perfect society" by refusing to think in highly generalized categories. Statistics work within an acceptable margin of error given a sufficiently large sample, but statistical conclusions do not apply to all or even most individuals identified as members of any given sample and while we should be aware of broad trends, we should also be open to individual differences in order to allow for growth and change in society. So yes, gender, sex, race, class and other broad categories have meaning in an individual's life, but they do not in themselves define an individual. If we allow them to do so, we prevent our own growth as well as supress the growth of others.


Yes, Eclipse, you are a tranny chaser, but you are also alot of other things as well. Every human is complex and intersects with various cultures and subcultures. I was not being overly simplistic or reductionist by lumping transfans together. But I think it's pretty clear that their is a subculture that fetishes the male penis, but seeks satisfaction of their urges through contact with transsexuals.
Yes, I concur that such a subculture exists. However--and especially depending on how you define /fetish/--I think it's a major disservice to both the men and the transwomen involved to lump all transfans together as those who fetish the male penis or refer to them as tranny chasers. Technically, a fetish describes that which you require in order to experience sexual gratification: a foot fetish requires feet as the focus, and sex without that focus is unfulfilling. Indeed, there may well be a subculture of--for lack of a better term--transfans who cannot be satisfied without the focus on a girl's penis, but applying that generalization to all men who enjoy either being bottom for a transwoman or sucking their cocks is faulty deduction as it fails to take into consideration the fact that many of these men can and do also experience sexual fulfillment without the "transwoman penis fetish": whether in only topping a transwoman and being disinterested in her penis, or being with a gg where no such question could arise.

I am a tranny chaser (by your definition) in the sense that, as a bi male attracted to beautiful women but enjoying sexual relationship with both men and women, I find the most desirable partner to be one who possesses both of these attributes: a beautiful, versatile transwoman. But that's by no means my only interest, only my preference. Since I am (by circumstance and finance) limited to only very occasional sexual encounters, I have chosen over the past 2-3 years to seek out a shemale as a companion. I have been married for 24 years, so I have no great curiosity or drive to be with a gg at this point (though who knows? I may soon for variety's sake), and I satisfied my interest in gay sex years ago (though I wouldn't walk away from an encounter now, I have no desire to seek it out).


Now about Julius Caesar, Eclipse you want to have it both ways. You used him as an example of a strong man who nevertheless liked to be fucked by men. You wrote: "But the gender diversity of humans is even more complex than that; men (like myself) who have no wish to become women nor see ourselves as "born in the wrong body" nonetheless derive pleasure from activities often not associated with masculinity--such as being bottom (never mind that such historically powerful men as Julius Caesar also enjoyed a good butt fuck)." So you see, the example you used was not correct because Caesar did not allow himself to be penetrated after reaching adulthood. Different context; different mores and incorrect use of examples...
This goes back to my comment above about typing too quickly: in that original post you quote, I should have written: "nonetheless derive pleasure from activities often not associated with masculinity--such as anal sex with other men (never mind that such historically powerful men as Julius Caesar also enjoyed a good butt fuck). Yes, the way it was written gave the wrong impression; I intended to use JC as an example of a man who enjoyed sexual activity not associated--in our culture, not his--with masculinity. If we change the way we perceive and define our culture, then our bias too will change (and it is changing, witness the Massachusetts Supreme Court's defense of same sex marriage).


In that post you also wrote: "In other words, you enjoy being bottom--but it's wrong for a man to enjoy being bottom unless he's a) gay and with another man or b) transitions to being a woman? That's far too limiting a range. " Now I have never said that it's 'wrong' for men to seek anal sex with themselves as the passive partner.
Oops, there's an instance of typing too fast--surely you weren't referring to self-pleasuring by referring to men who "seek anal sex with themselves"--now, that would be an interesting trick. I'd guess you'd have to be at least 18" long to accomplish that!


There's nothing wrong with that at all. I brought this up in the context of a larger discussion of why transwomen so frequently won't date chasers and diss them. One of the overarching themes of all these posts is the dysfunctional relationship between transwomen and admirers. I was attempting to explain why that is so.
Yes, I quite agree with you re: the overarching theme of dysfunctional transwoman/admirer relationships. I think you're right, to a point, but I don't think this is true of all transwomen nor all transfans and that, if transwomen wish to be more accepted, they should be more accepting (and vice versa). You're probably right that, by and large, it won't happen, but I think it can and does--even if only for a small minority.


All of you guys that were complaining about the twenty something thuggy guys that young girls seem to prefer have to realize that the vast majority of these thugs aren't going down on their knees begging to be dominated. Really--do you think genetic women go around looking for men to penetrate? (don't try the strap-on argument, most are sold to lesbians). The simple fact that you lose that masculinity when you are begging to suck dick or get fucked in the ass is why transwomyn seek relationships far afield from the tranny chaser scene.
The verb in that sentence is pivotal: not all men who enjoy sucking dick or getting fucked in the ass beg for it. Begging for anything is demeaning--masculine, feminine, it doesn't matter. But enjoying those acts and actively seeking them out does not make one less of a man except in the eyes of someone who defines masculinity according to stereotypical guidelines. Yet I concede your point in particular as regards a large subgroup of transwomyn (though I deny that it applies to all): if your identity as a woman depends on dissociation from your biologically male nature, it seems entirely natural that you would seek out the extreme opposite--the very macho type--as a partner in order to reinforce that distinction.


Women don't lust after Vin Disel, Ben Affleck, or Nick Lachey because they are great bottoms.
No-- they ASSume that these men are extremely masculine. However, do you know for a fact that they are not? To cite probably the most famous example, Rock Hudson fooled men and women for decades.


It's the intrinsic masculinity in these guys that makes them so attractive. I don't think these guys would get tired of being men and somehow need to be anally dominated in order to relax. If genetic females don't want a guy based on his ability to be sodomized or perform fellatio, why would the large majority of transwomen who see themselves as essentially women?
It's the perception of intrinsic masculinity in these guys that makes them so attractive: unless you know each one intimately, you can't know if each actually is intrinsically masculine, only that they appear to be so. That said, I agree with you that transwomyn would (unless they really enjoy using their cocks, which some do) be no more attracted to a guy who enjoys being sodomized or performing fellatio than most women would (though, speaking in terms of broad categories, there is a class of women who indeed get off on this and who love seeing men with other men or in a threesome).


About client sessions. Alot of guys use the excuse 'well, the session started and she just shoved her dick in my mouth." It's pretty clear that's a tactic to get this session started and over as quick as possible. I've done this myself on occasion when I used to work. I could tell that a lot of the guys wanted extended foreplay, etc. However, it's a business transaction, not love that we engage in. You are most likely not someone I'd ever choose to have sex with for free. So anything to get it over with quicker. Alot of this goes back to the same old theme about age differences. How can you guys, 50 and over honestly expect a 20 year old to be hot and bothered about your flabby belly, hairy ass, and limp dicks? Most of the women are just not hard-wired to be sexually attractive to passive men in the first place, so it's really nothing personal.
I certainly understand the desire to get it over with quickly. However, those transescorts who at the least create the illusion that they are enjoying the session and who provide the full hour agreed upon including foreplay and/or chatting before and after are apt to be far more successful because they are providing a better service. Any girl--regardless of how hot looking she may be--who is so quick to get it over is going to lose repeat business, and that not only means greatly increased income, but (assuming the client is desirable in terms of being a basically nice guy who practices safe sex) safer for her in the long run. Moreover, if escorts complain that guys only want their dicks, then in sessions jump immediately to their (or his) dick to get it over with as quickly as possible, they are only reinforcing their own negative situation. Let the tranny chaser at least prove that he is interested in her mind, the rest of her body, her face, her conversation, her other interests.

Well, I don't expect a 20-year-old to be hot and bothered over my 50-year-old body (though fwiw, I don't have a flabby belly, hairy ass or limp dick, and people from all walks of life always assume that I'm no more than 40--I still have the same full head of naturally dark brown hair with no grey that I've always had and and drop and give you 35 pushups anytime), however I do expect an escort to at least do her best to create that illusion. If she doesn't, I won't be back. If a guy is 50+, ugly, poorly groomed, demeaning, and/or any other such negatives, then it's his fault, not hers. But if he's relatively good looking, in shape, healthy, well-groomed, and sophisticated, then his age shouldn't be a factor for the session, or she shouldn't be in the business. However, it certainly would and should be a factor in a relationship--that's something else altogether.


For most of us, we knew something of our GID at an early age. The things that I found attractive (and my friends do as well) about men is their masculinity; sexual dimorphism (yes it does exist, on average men are taller and heaveier than women) and the need for you that exists ina hetero relationship between a man and a woman. A big difference between straight guys and tranny chasers is that a tranny chaser always asks "what are you into?" (all the while hoping to hear "I'm a fierce top and want to fuck your ass good!) A straight guy KNOWS what you are into....

There's that problem with sexual dimorphism: it's a range, not an absolute division. On average men are taller and heavier than women: and I am taller and heavier than the average woman (5'8" 180 lbs 45" chest 38" waist), but there are millions of women in this country alone who are taller and heavier than I am. Yes, most of the women who are taller are still built more lightly than I am--but there's still millions who are not. I have a penis, you have a penis, but you are far more feminine than I am--even without going for your srs. Is a guy more of a guy if his penis is bigger? (Shit, I was afraid of that :lol:) Again, I think sexual dimorphism is statistically valid in reference to large groups, but I don't like to relate to people as representatives of a group but as individuals. Yes, there's a group ID which draws one in initially--there has to be some common ground of contact--but beyond that, I let it go.

Regarding GID, I concur with the statement given by the GID Reform Associates (http://www.transgender.org/gidr/index.html):


It is time for the medical professions to affirm that difference is not disease, nonconformity is not pathology, and uniqueness is not illness.

I hear you on your last point: any chaser who asks "what are you into?" is submissive to that point; better to state what you are into. If she is also, great. If not, move on.

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

LOL....I'm so glad some of you guys understand where I coming from....

It's so true...if some of these guys went for a trannie that had more in common with them or closer to their age...They would probadly get it for free.

Another thing...You don't have to be str8 up CLIENT to pay a girl. As I have said b4...ESCORTs have to be good HUSTLERs. You have to know the tricks of the trade.

Alot of guys are foolish ( I didn't say all) They fall for alot of bullshit from trannie.

Please don't jump down my throat for this comment. I didn't say all guys.

If you know you can get a trannie w/ out drinks, rides, money or whatever...Then this shouln't bother you.

Trust me...when the girls like a guy on a personal level NOT business...the guys don't have to provide anything. The girls are quick 2 jump on that dick for FREE.

FREE meaning the guy doesn't have to provide anything and when I say anything...I mean ANYTHING not even being friendly to girl..being polite...NOTHING!





[/b]

[Shining Star]

Yes, some trannies may have been "lesbian" before having the SRS, but that still does not account for the numbers of trannies that end up with women post operation. There is a great book called "Transgender Outlaw" written by a post op trannie lesbian which goes into much of this.

There is so much unhappiness post operation that even the Harry Benjamin Insititute stopped doing SRS's years ago, IIRC. Why? Follow up studies on patients showed a vast majority were equally if not more unhappy post operation as before. Remember the criteria for judging the "sucess" of the sex change was the patients intergration into society as a "woman", in short did the procedure "cure" the disease. Usually not because the "girls" had the same issues remaining.



Trust me, have several gf's and know girls who went to Meltzer, Menard, et al and know what I'm speaking of. Two of my gf's are drop dead GORGEOUS, "Penthouse Pet" looking women, and they still get "clocked". Yes the vagina's done today are streets ahead of yesteryear, but they are still man made and suffer from limits of biology. They do not taste, smell, or always feel like the real thing. Sure cosmetically they may look wonderful, but many men who know their way around a p***y, can tell the difference. Remember a vagina is a wonderfully elastic thing. It can take men of various sizes and girths, and also pass infants of the same character. If a man who is only "average" keeps trying to make love to a post op vagina and can only get 1/4 way in, he begins to wonder.

As for maintainence, sure gg's require it also, but not to the extent post op trannies do. Lots of my gf's in their twenties and thirties who had the job were amazed how fast they closed up and lost depth if they didn't dilate several times a day. A gg can go months or years without sex and not have any problems. But a trannie must dilate frequently and throughly to keep depth.




There's drug use and there is "use". Sure many people experiment with drugs but move on. However if the drugs are something one "needs" to get through the day or block out certain things, it is going to be more difficult to move on.

[TS SASHA]

[quote="hingshing"

,,Ts Stasha,, WOW!!
um,, what are you studying? Just curious im interested. :-) You can email me anything anytime
P.V>[/quote]

i do fashion design dear

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

LOL @ MEGA

I'm with one of your so called "kiki" friends right now....I'm not going 2 blow up who it is..cause she's doesn't want 2 be involved in he/she said nonsense.

LOL again....You keep thinking your kiki with the girls!

Since you know the lingo....The girls all think your a KNOT!

I never said all girls like GHETTO BOYS...I said GHETTO TRANNIES LIKE GHETTO BOYS.

So before u try 2 put me on...get the FACTS str8!!!

LOL again.

P.S. This will be my last post on this TOPIC so say what u must since fags always like 2 go at it.

[ONEWORLD]

I WASN’T GONNA POST ANYTHING BECAUSE I WAS ENJOYING THE DISCOURSE OF THE TRANSGENDERED OPINION AND I DIDN’T WANT TO DISCOURAGE OTHER T-GIRLS FROM POSTING BY ARGUING WITH THEM ABOUT THEIR FUCKING LIVES, LOL…GUYS YOU’RE LEARN A LOT MORE BY LEANING THE FUCK BACK AND LISTENING…OR IN THIS CASE READINGBUT THIS ONE PHRASE IS SPARKED IT FOR ME…


A big difference between straight guys and tranny chasers is that a tranny chaser always asks "what are you into?" (all the while hoping to hear "I'm a fierce top and want to fuck your ass good!) A straight guy KNOWS what you are into....

THAT’S AN EXTREMELY IMPORTANT POINT THAT I HAVE NOT SEEN ADDRESSED ON THIS BOARD…AND I DON’T EVEN KNOW IF THIS IS WHAT YOU MEANT…BUT SPEAKING AS A STRAIGHT GUY, DOMINANCE IS KEY FOR ME. SEX ON THIS BOARD IS USUALLY SPOKEN ABOUT IN TERMS OF JUST PLEASURE; AND I FIND IT AS PLEASUREABLE AS THE NEXT DUDE,LOL, BUT FOR ME, AS A MAN, DOMINATING AND BEING IN CONTROL IS JUST AS APPEALING AND NEEDED. THERE IS A REASON THAT A MAN’S SEXUAL ENCOUNTER IS CALLED A “CONQUEST”. WHETHER WITH WOMEN OR TRANSEXUAL WOMEN, I MUST SHOW THEM “WHOSE THE MAN” IN THIS SHIT. IN ALL OF MY SEXUAL ENCOUNTERS WITH T-WOMEN, I FOUND THAT TRANSEXUAL WOMEN ARE EVEN MORE PASSIVE THAT GENETIC WOMEN… EVEN IN EVERYDAY LIFE, THE GIRLS IN MY RELATIONSHIPS HAVE LOOKED TO ME TO BE “THE MAN”…THOUGH I’M RELATIVELY YOUNG, I’M VERY OLD SCHOOL IN THAT WAY. (OPENING DOORS, NOT ALLOWING HER TO CARRY THINGS, ETC…) IN MY OPINION, A T-GIRL SHOULD DO WHAT SHE DOES BEST: SHUT THE FUCK UP, LOOK GOOD, AND GET ME A FUCKING SANDWICHJUST KIDDING ABOUT THE SHUT THE FUCK UP PART, IF MY GIRL SAW THAT, SHE’D KILL ME…LOL.ANYWAY, I’M SAYING THIS TO SAY THAT BEING A TOP AND A BOTTOM, TO ME, IS NOT THE SAME AS BEING PASSIVE OR AGGRESSIVE…THERE ARE GUYS ON THIS BOARD THAT CLAIM TOP BUT SEEM PASSIVE…JUST MY THOUGHTS.

[TS SASHA]

SHADE , YOUR A GHETTO TRANNY , YOU LIKE GHETTO RATS,......THATS YOUR PROBLEM......TRUST & BELEIVE , I HAVE NO PROBLEM HOOKING UP WITH YOUNG GIRLS AND THATS WITH NO MONEY INVOLVED....AS A MATTER OF FACT , IF I SHOWED THEM YOUR POST THEY WOULD LAUGH AND SAY THAT YOUR A GHETTO LOVER, THATS WHY YOU SAY WHAT YOU SAY........AS A MATTER OF FACT YOU GUYS SEE ME AT THE PARTY, IM WITH YOUNG GIRLS ALL THE TIME, SOME WANT A RELATIONSHIP WITH ME, BUT WE ARE NOT CONNECTED WITH THAT WAY.....SO I REMAIN JUST FRIENDS WITH THEM , BUT AT THE SAME TIME THEY HATE GHETTO BOYZ. THEY LIKE THE BUILT GUYS , THE FACTORY BOYZ AND GUYS WITH A FUTURE , NOT A SEWER RAT.....SHADE YOUR YOUNG, YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT....YOUR STEREO TYPING ALL GUYS AND TRANNYS.......YOUR THE FOOL IF YOU BELEIVE YOUR OWN BULLSHIT.......AS A MATTER OF FACT THERE WERE ABOUT 5 HOOD RAT DOMINICAN GUYS WITH OVERSIZED JACKETS , DOO RAGS AND BASEBALL HAT ON SIDEWAYS

mega ... u talk like u know miss shade, cause if u did .... u would GAG @ how wrong u r ... i know and lov miss shade and she is far from ghetto trash mama, so dont feel it ... we both live very very white women 2 be young and latina, so how dare u ... we just lov banjee bois 4 fun cause that's alll they r good 4, so we can have your cake and eat it 2

[TS SASHA]

UUUM YOU AINT EATIN MY CAKE GIRL :wink: Aight right BQ, What house u in mama :lol: :lol: :lol: .......

[TS SASHA]

:lol: TRUST, IM A BUTCH QUEEN WITH TITS THATS LOOKS LIKE FISH .... AT LESS IM NOT A FUSTY BQ

[TS SASHA]

WE JUST WENT OVER THIS ... I KNOW IM A OVER FEM THAT WAS A OVER BQD ... AND IM OVER TALKIN 2 THA FAG 4 THA DAY ......CIAO

[lmw222001]

I really do understand the financial pressures that most TGirls r under.
It takes some very serious money to have implants,hormones,injections,electrolysis.clothes and everything else under the sun.
There are a lot of very broad generalizations being tossed about.
Some TGirls do have some contempt for "tranny chasers".
Being an escort requires that they deal with some real idiots,knuckleheads
and some guys with some real bad hygiene.
So some girls get an attitude.Hey,it's a rough life sometimes.
I've run into my share of asshole TGirls and real sweethearts.
I'm always myself and if they like it,cool.If they don't that's fine too.

[ONEWORLD]

...EVEN THE JASMINE INT, POST , WHO AINT ALL THAT EITHER , NOT IN MY BOOK.......TOO CHUBBY FOR ME , BUT THEN AGAIN I LOVE SKIINNY BITCHES..

I COULDN'T LET THIS SLIDE...

ANYONE WHO DOESN'T THINK JI IS HOT IS A FUCKING HOMO...

[ONEWORLD]

ONEWORLD , I JUST LOST RESPECT FOR YOU ASSHOLE.....ONE MANS JUNK IS ANOTHER MANS GEM.....YOUR A SHIT TALKER

WOW, I HAVE THE QUEENS BOTHERED TONIGHT...

1ST: I GIVES A FUCK WHO YOU RESPECT...YOU LOST MINE THE 1ST TIME YOU ADMITTED TO BEING YAKKED...

2ND: YOU TALK MORE SHIT THAN EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD COMBINED.






PS, ROLLOVER & TELL J THAT I'M A GROWN-ASS MAN AND I'LL GET MY POINT ACROSS ANYWAY I FUCKING SEE FIT...

[ONEWORLD]

...ILL SMACK YOUR ASS THEN DO WHAT I WANT WITH IT...YOU AINT MAN ENOUGH TO STOP EITHER...


LOL...SOUNDS LIKE A HOMO TO ME.



PERSONALLY , I FIND EVERY PART OF THE TSGIRL TO BE BEAUTIFUL AND SEXY...YES THE DICK TOO....LETS BE HONEST....NOT TO SOUND LIKE A BITCH BUT TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE, IF I WAS FUCKING A TSGIRL AND SHE WASNT HARD , I FEEL LIKE IM NOT EXCITING HER....AGAIN NOT TO SOUND LIKE A GIRL BUT IF WE KISS AND HER SHIT WAS LIKE A DEAD NOODLE THAT MAKES ME FEEL LIKE SHE ISNT INTO ME...IT UPSETS ME ....I GUESS IM PART BITCH BECAUSE I EXPECT THAT SHIT TO BE LIKE MINE, POINTING AT THE CEILING.... IM REALLY NOT A BITCH, BUT THERES A LITTLE BITCH IN ME CAUSE IT BOTHERS ME EMOTIONALLY IF THE GIRL WASNT EXCITED


YEAH, YOU'RE A HOMO...LOL






LET'S GO.

[ONEWORLD]

*LOOKS AT WATCH*

I SEE YOU SET ASIDE THIS SPECIAL TIME TO HUMILIATE YOURSELF.

[ONEWORLD]

LOOK DUDE, SAVE ALL THAT RA RA AND THE "LIMP WRIST" HISTRIONICS FOR SOME OTHER CAT...I DON'T MAKE THREATS, I JUST DO WHATEVER NEEDS TO DONE...LOL




THATS WHAT I WANT TO SPEND MY LIFE WITH.....THE PASSION AND LOVE IS VERY VERY STRONG....PLUS TO BE HONEST I LOVE THE FAGGOT IN THE GIRL....I LIKE THE TS GIRL THAT KEEPS IT REAL....

I LOVE THE WHOLE TRANNY, THE SEX YES, BUT HER SMELL , THE FAGGOT INSIDE



THAT FAGGOT INSIDE? WHUH THE FUH?



PS. ARE YOU CAUCASIAN?, BECAUSE YOU THROW THAT WORD "NIGGA" AROUND LIKE IT'S A TOY...

[ONEWORLD]

LOL...WHAT A QUEEN?

EVERY TIME YOUR LITTLE DELICATE-SELF GETS BOTHERED OR UPSET, YOU GET ALL EMOTIONAL AND START POUNDING THE KEYBOARD...SAYING THE SAME FUCKING IN EVERY POST..."I'M GAY AND YOU'RE GAY TOO, WELL THEN WHY ARE YOU HERE?". SOME TIMES POSTING THREE AND FOUR TIMES BACK-TO-BACK...SOMETIMES EVEN RESPONDING TO YOURSELF...LOL



DO YOU HAVE A LIFE...

I KNOW YOU'RE SINGLE...














FOUR YEARS HUH?...




[/b]LOL

[ONEWORLD]

AT LEAST YOUR PUSSY ASS ADMITS YOUR GAY.....NIW WE ARE GETTING SOMEWHERE NIGGA......YOUR STILL A COWARD ...IM NOT A TRICK LIKE YOU WHO PAYS TO SUCK COCK........I DONT FUCK AROUND CAUSE ITS MY CHOICE MO.....YOUR A COWARD TALKING SHIT , YOU CANT ANSWER WHY YOU COME HERE AND YOU MAKE YOURSELF OUT LIKE YOU ARE ABOUT THE SHJIT ON THIS BOARD.....YOU CAN CALL ME WHAT YOU WANT, YOUR A JOKE TO ME, AND ANYDAY YOU FEEL LIKE YOUR A TUFF GUY , ILL BE MORE THEN HAPPY TO SHOW YOU WHAT A BITCH YOU REALLY ARE.......LOL @ONEWORLD....HIS BOYZ DONT KNOW HE PAYS FOR DICK....LOL...YA BITCH NIGGA........DONT LIKE IT, DO SOMETHING MO........COWARD

*MARKS ANOTHER TALLY ON THE CHALKBOARD AND SIGHS*

SAYING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER 1,000,000 TIMES DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE, YOU LONELY BOTTOM...




I GOT A LOT OF TS GIRLS THAT I COULD DATE REALTIME , BUT THERE NOT A MATCH FOR ME....IM PICKY AS A MOTHER FUCKER , THATS WHY I BEEN ALONE FOR OVER 4 YEARS.......


YEAH RIGHT...


ISN'T IT YOUR BEDTIME...










YOU OLD-ASS MAN!!!!

[ONEWORLD]

*YAWNS*

LOOK MEGA, I COULD DO THIS ALL NIGHT...CORRECTION, YOU COULD DO THIS ALL NIGHT...LOL...BUT I HAVE A LIFE AND YOU'RE CLEARLY NOT MY MATCH...

WE'LL MAKE THIS HAPPEN AGAIN, LOL.

[Caleigh]

funny how even though this topic seems to refer to us girls and our
"issues" it seems as if it's the guys that have the real issues.

[Bigguy]

The way some of these threads have been going lately, I think we need a new Emoticon:

[Toro]

ONEWORLD he also dissed Miriam and Liza Xtravaganza, who are 2 of the hottest ts's I've ever seen.


LOL COWARD.......LOOK AT THAT SHIT EVERYONE , THIS ASSHOLE THINKS BY CALLING ME AN OLD MAN OR NAMES LIKE HOMO ITS SUPPOSED TO HURTS ME.....MEANWHILE , HERES A GUY WITH NO PROFILE , NO EMAIL ADDRESS AND IS ANNONYMOUS SO HIS MOMMY DONT KNOW HE PLAYS HERE.....

Mega, you are always trying to lump everyone into your train of thought. First of all, on what other message board do people advertise who they are? Just because someone posted your picture on here, you want everyone to be IDd. And if you were so confident why don't you use your pic as your avatar? I seem to remember you getting freaked out when your pic got posted.


HE CALLED ME A HOMO CAUSE I SAID THAT AM DOWN WITH THE GIRLS PRIVATE PARTS LIKE EVERYONE OF YOU READING THIS, I TS ALSO NOT MY SOLE REASON FOR COMING HERE BUT THIS ASSHOLE PUT ME DOWN CALLED ME A HOMO FOR IT,

I'll call you a homo for using the phrase 'private parts'. And 'kiki'. WTF?

LOL...
'LIKE EVERYONE OF YOU READING THIS'... You are trying so desperately to get everyone to agree with you - so that you'll feel more comfortable about the confused, uncomfortable feelings you have. First of all, you live on this board Mega. I would say you are a little obsessed with TS. You also call TS 'the ultra feminine male' - yet you want one for your WIFE. What does that tell you? You want their cock to be hard when you bang them, you don't mind getting banged ... dude, we are not on the same wavelength. And there seems to be a lot of other guys on the site who agree.


LISTEN TUFF GUY WANNA BE , YOU CAN CALL ME ALL THE NAMES YOU WANT JUST KEEP HIDING BEHIND YOUR COMPUTER TALKIN SHIT.... EVERYONE HERE KNOWS ME, IM AN EASY TARGET TO THROW SHIT AT, IM ONE OF THE ONY PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD ASIDE FROM A FEW GIRLS AND SEANCHAI WHO EVERYONE HAS SEEN AND IS OUT IN THE PUBLICS EYE..........

This isn't about being tough. How tough do you think you look wanting to fight anyone who calls you a name on an internet board? That's pretty thin-skinned. There are a lot of men on here who are tough. We just don't have to scream it out to try to convince people.

[LBCDO]

Mega, Ive seen where you were coming form on a lot of things, but its really beginning to seem like you got something against young dominicans man:

AS A MATTER OF FACT THERE WERE ABOUT 5 HOOD RAT DOMINICAN GUYS WITH OVERSIZED JACKETS , DOO RAGS AND BASEBALL HAT ON SIDEWAYS........THEY WERE HANGING OUT ON THE CORNER..... THESE HUMAN PEICES OF GARBAGE WERE HITTING ON THE GIRLS I WAS WITH AND THE GIRLS I WAS WITH LAUGHED AND IGNORED THEM.....ON YELLED OUT SHIT IN SPANISH AND THE GUYS STARTED CURSING HER OUT........ONE IS A GIRL YOU GUYS POST PICS OF ON THS SITE CAUSE SHE GOT A BIG DICK......MY GIRLS HATED THOSE GUYS AND SAID THEY SICKEN HER.....

I dont get heated or hurl insults or anything like that over the internet, but just think about what you type and how other people may read into it. Im dominican, but never been to NY once in my life. But here in GA you mention my name and your guaranteed to find me. Becayse I stand out. Dont classify the actions of a group [hispanic, young, whatever] and call it ghetto. Ive seen black guys act ignoarant with girls, and white guys rob other girls, it dont matter.

MY poiny about age wasnt that it couldnt be done, its just not typical that you find 19 year old GGs hooking up with 38 year olds, so why do a lot of older people think its THAT easy to hook upwith younger TSs? Im not saying there is anything wrong with it, not at all. But if you try to find girls with more in common with you, you will find you have better success, and typically the age gap makes it hard to find people with similiar interest. Let me rephrase that, GENUINE similiar interest. It also requires game, which im sorry, is something that most people who pursue TSs dont have because they are so fascinated that they are "fulfilling the fantasy" that they get all stupid [damn, i want u to fuck me in the ass and suck your dick before hell]. Not trying to be mean or anything, but come on man, we both know what the average person says. SOme strange off the wall shit. And you know the average older person doesent look for a 18 year old to date! Esoecially if you are a white suburn upper middle class guy who works in IT and used to follow the dead and you want to pick up the newest girl from the club who is 20 and was just in the Lean Back video. You gotta at least admit that!

[Ecstatic]

funny how even though this topic seems to refer to us girls and our
"issues" it seems as if it's the guys that have the real issues.
Ain't it the truth, Caleigh? Why is it that every thread that starts out with an important topic ends up degenerating into verbal fisticuffs? There was some good dialogue going on here. Eclipse and I were disagreeing on specific points, for instance, but it was (I thought) an engaging and thoughtful discussion which raised a lot of good points. Likewise for several others. Then, about halfway through, down it comes like a house of cards. Half the time here, I feel like I'm standing on a street corner in the ghetto listening to all the yellin' and wondering why I'm here.

Big Guy, I love your emoticon! So true--it should be added to the standard set.

[ABSOLUTE SHADE]

LOL..I KNOW I SAID I WOULDNT POST ON THIS TOPIC...BUT I COULDNT HELP MYSELF.....

IT WAS STATED B4 THAT "MEGA" DOESNT BAD MOUTH THE GIRLS....

HERE HE IS TALKING SHIT ABOUT LIZA AND HER DRUG PROBLEM. IF YOU THINK SHE'S SO COOL..U THINK SHE WOULD APPRECIATE SAYING THAT? MIND YOU..WITH HER REAL NAME.

ABOUT THE THING WITH MIRIAM...U DID SAY SHE WASNT THAT HOTT. THAT SHE WAS CHUBBY. THAT SHE HAD LOST HER LOOKS AND THAT SHE GOT BEAT UP BY MEXICANS.

MEGA....U TALK SHIT ABOUT THUGS...GHETTO BOYS..GHETTO TRANNIES...

IT SEEMS LIKE YOU HAVE ALOT OF ISSUES....WITH THOSE TYPE OF GUYS! (LOOK @ UR AOL PROFILE)

BUT MIND YOU...HERE U ARE TRYING 2 TALK LIKE THEM!

I UNDERSTAND WHERE UR COMING FROM...THAT U DATE TS WOMEN..THAT U NOT A TRICK...THAT U ARE NOT EMBARRASSED ABOUT LIKING TS WOMEN.

BUT U TALK ABOUT ME AND MY ISSUES? LOOK HOW U BLOW UP WHEN PEOPLE SAY THINGS ABOUT THINGS THAT U ARE "SUPPOSELY" NOT?

NOW ABOUT JASMINE INTERNATIONAL...CHUBBY? LOL

I DIDNT KNOW CHUBBY GIRLS CAN WEAR A 2 PIECE BATHING SUIT AND LOOK GOOD.

I UNDERSTAND WE ALL HAVE DIFFERENT TYPES...BUT CHUBBY?

WHITE GUYS SURE HAVE WEIRD CONCEPTIONS OF BEING FAT OR CHUBBY.

I WONDER WHAT U THINK OF GIRLS LIKE ALLANAH, BODY GINA, ETC?

YOU COME ACROSS...AS BEING COOL SOMETIMES BUT THEN U BECOME THIS FUSTRATED BQ THAT READS EVERYONE OUTTA FUSTRATION.

AS MANY TIMES AS GUYS HAVE TRIED 2 READ ME ON HER...AND I PAY THEM NO MIND.

I READ ABOUT ISSUES....BUT NOT WHEN THEY TRY 2 ATTACK ME ON A PERSONAL LEVEL.

I KNOW MY REALITY..SO IM UNBOTHERED.

[eclipse2000b]

My God. This thread went to hell-in-a-hand basket. When I left on Sat am it was very civil discourse and when I got time to check back in tonight, it was five pages longer and five pages of insults.

J, Ecstatic, Shining Star, & LBCDO thanks for not letting things get personal. We may profoundly disagree on a lot of topics, but it’s great that we can carry on a dialog even if we get our snide remarks in here and there

Shining Star Basically you are repeating dated information and using poor literary examples to back-up your points. Kate Bornstein’s book is essentially about questioning gender norms. Her book is less a primer on the transsexual experience and more a cultural critique of binary gender systems. Her book is theoretically sophisticated, but has attracted some controversy within the transsexual community. It’s a good read, but hardly authoritative on the amount of translesbians. In fact, gender queer scholars readily acknowledge that we do not have good macro level studies of transsexuals regarding sexuality. Neverhteless, there are a few books and articles that hypothesize about sexuality in the transgender community. The general consensus seems to be that our sexuality tends to be influx, often changes during hormonal therapy and that we seem to have a slightly higher level of homosexuality than the ‘straight’ population. (International Journal of Transgenderism: Symposium for not sure which year).

A more important debate is the one that has emerged over the work of J. Michael Bailey, Ray Blanchard and Anne Lawrence. Together they argue that transsexualism is essentially caused by sexuality. They recognize two types of transsexuals: autogynephiliac and homosexual. The autogynephiliac is the older type that transitions after age 40, has childeren frequently, is a risk taker and masturbates in women’s clothes. The homosexual type comes up through the gay community is primarily motivated by seeking sexual encounters with straight men.

Lynn Conway, Deirdre McCloskey and a host of other academics have condemned the Bailey et all interpretation. They stick to the older GID interpretation and have noted that the Bailey et al interpretation has shaky scientific methodology. The matter rests in court because of Bailey’s alleged unscrupulous research methods, which allegedly include some tranny chasing of his own. In the Bailey version, there is little mention of translesbianism and when it is mentioned it’s equated with miss-placed hyper heterosexuality. Those are the recent debates on transsexuality.
\
Other studies indicate that as high as 85% of post-operative transsexuals report satisfaction after srs. Moreover, a high number report being orgasmic. In a review of the literature, Lawrence contends that there is a very high satisfaction rate in srs patients, even those with brief real life tests.

Shining Star: You have confused the Harry Benjamin Institute for the Study of Gender Dysphoria with Johns Hopkins University. Harry Benjamin (now long dead) authored the first standards of care for transgendered people. Now a board of about 350 scholars meets annually to consider revisions in the standards of care for medical health practitioners. (I know some of the members of the Board) They do not perform procedures, but are a oversight agency.

Now the old bone about Johns Hopkins. As you may or may not be aware, some of the earliest (successful) sex change operations in the US (1960s)were conducted at Johns Hopkins University. Alicia Brevard, is probably the most famous (and successful as a bit part-actress in Hollywood) patients. Read her book sometime: it’s fascinating. In the 1980s there was an administrative change (conservative: remember the Reagan era!) and the powers that be decided that they didn’t want to be known for providing srs: too Jerry Springerish. So they began to push for a psychological alternative via therapy that got them out of the srs business. The changes at Johns Hopkins were less about outcomes and more about politics both within and outside the institution. This story keeps resurfacing when the partially informed need to allege that there’s something wrong with the srs procedure, when in fact there was something wrong with the politics at that institution. The upshot is since they closed their program, we have far more and better providers and some of them are doing really wonderful work.

About post-op maintenance of the neovagina. Yes, it’s true that you have to dilate. But after the initial pain of surgery, dilation is basically masturbating and how many people complain about having to do that? Compared to a gentic female’s vagina, the neovagina is remarkably trouble free. Have you ever heard of menstrual periods, yeast infections, endometriosis, toxic shock syndrome, etc? The gg vagina is hardly maintenance free, and while it does have the advantage of being remarkably flexible without dilation, it does require quite a bit of care. Moreover the HIV risks of the neovagina are considerably less than a gg vagina.

Depth of the neovagina, of course, depends upon the amount of flesh that you have available. In other words, if you aren’t hung before hand you will need a graft to create vaginal depth. Under five inches can be problematic for the surgeon. So there are some pretty wide ranges of vaginal depth. But as you quite rightly mention, in some cases this is also related to dilation practices. Dr. Suporn in particular has developed a technique for maximum depth. On his website he has a picture of a woman inserting a dilator of up to eight inches if I remember correctly. Not to be gross, but I have a large member and I’ve ‘bottomed’ (was painful for her) out in just about every woman that I was ever with. I didn’t suspect any of them to be trans and in fact none of them were. Both Conway and Lawrence have discussions of neovaginal depth on their websites.

I don’t think that I would claim that a neovagina is going to fool all men all of the time, but who’s into fooling them in the first place? From anecdotal stories with the women that I know who have sexual relations with men theirs all work just fine. Moreover, if you are getting srs just to attract men, you are an unsuitable candidate based on the Standards of Care. While some transsexuals are lesbians or bisexual before surgery, some report that this feeling intensifies after the procedure. I have know ftm gay male leather guys! So there are a number of potential outcomes regarding sexual orienation post-surgery. Nevertheless, I would argue that the majority of post-op transwomen seek relations with heterosexual men. I think that much is clear. On the other hand, it's no secret that women in general tend to be alone (and poor!) more frequently than men. So rather than see ts women as some sort of outcast, they may actually be more closely conforming to the norm.

Shining Star, clearly you have some empathy for transpeople, but I think you just plain got a lot of your information wrong. The anecdotal stuff from friends I’ll give you, but mine is converse of yours. Moreover, you weren’t right about Harry Benjamin/John Hopkins; miss-used Kate Bornstein and seem unaware of the festering debates over transsexuality/identity.

J, I’m not exactly sure where I offended you. If you want to be more specific, I’ll be glad to respond or apologize if I’m wrong.

LBCDO your post on the age differences was really insightful and I’m just amazed that other guys can’t understand your logic (which happens to mirror my own). I really think you’ve “got it going on.” You put it so well: you don’t see 20 year old gg women dating 40+ men. It’s just not a common occurrence and doesn’t mean that 40+ guys are unattractive. If you do see that kind of line-up, it’s about the older guy’s money. The world of a 20 year-old is foreign to me and I’m only 30! I can’t even imagine what a guy 48 years old is going to talk about to a chick that’s into 50cent or JayZ. (I kind of rehash this theme below b/c I think it’s one key area of contention between womyn/chasers)

Ecstatic I was giggling when you pegged me for the typos. I have long skinny fingers that only move at one speed: FAST! So I type inaccurately at times (longish nails don’t help!), and I refuse to proofread this stuff because I have to do that at work. So basically it’s just firing away. In that light, I can understand your poor word choice about Caesar, although I’m still of the opinion that was a dubious example for the case you were trying to make. (Sorry about the typos and word slips, but I’m forgiving you for writing some horrendous run-on sentences!) We are far apart in our thinking on a host of issues, but I do appreciate that you state your views in an articulate manner and with little animosity. At this point, I don’t think either of us is going to convert the other, but perhaps we will both learn a little from all of the sparring. Now, I need to get down to business.

Ecstatic: I agree with you. It’s incumbent upon us all to work toward building a race/gender/sexual orientation bias free society. However, I think we profoundly disagree about the method. My argument is that because of past and contemporary struggles around race/sex/gender we definitely need to reaffirm our minority communities until we have achieved equal rights. Your line of argument, however, contends that “yes, gender, sex, race, class and other broad categories have meaning in an individual's life, but they do not in themselves define an individual.” I contend that no one category defines a person, but taken together, they certainly do. Human beings are complex: overdetermined if you will. This should not preclude us from recognizing ourselves as members of various subcultures who may or may not have equal access to social and civil rights.

By your line of argumentation, Dr. King would not have recognized that his struggle was rooted in racial antipathies. Instead, he would have said “I refuse to let race define me.” Then he could have just walked away from the Birmingham bus boycott meeting and the world would be a far worse place because of it. But it’s clear that society had already defined him in racial terms, and he became determined to ACT via group protest. Although we would like to construct our own reality—the structural inequalities that are inherent in a stratified society make that impossible. It is one of the fundamental tenants of anthropology that when societies became agricultural they also moved from primitive communism to civilization based upon rank and specialization. Hence winners & losers… While I agree with your notion that we all need to work together to construct an equal society, we must take action: hence praxis or the connection of theory and action. Sir Thomas Moore wrote about “Utopia” in 1515 and we haven’t built it yet.

Now to apply that analysis to the tranny chaser community: It’s very easy for a transfan to say “oh, I’m not going to let someone define me as a homosexual or a tranny chaser or whatnot.” Well, that works just great for you guys. It means that you can get all of the homosexual contact that you want, and can deny that it places you in deviate category because you refuse to allow that it exists. Since the vast majority of tranny chasers do this on the ‘down lo’ there is no threat to their standing as members of the dominant ethos. Even the guys who admit that they are ‘into’ transsexuals most likely don’t tell people that they are a big-time bottom. Hence you can have your dick and pretend that you have not had homosexual contact because you don’t acknowledge that construct. Therefore, you have no responsibility toward the rest of the GLBT community that gets pilloried by the Right-wingers.

We don’t have the right to get married, get beaten and bashed, and transfans are absent when it comes time for organization and activism. Yet if a transfan gets sick with the HIV, I’m almost certain that they will then become “Gay” so that they can enjoy some of the infrastructure that they never helped to construct. Moreover, with the frequency of the word “faggot” flying in this post alone, I think that’s a sad statement on the ‘tolerance’ of some of the chasers. (I know the guys I’m debating are not the ones tossing about slurs) Transwomen are accused of being intolerant when we don’t want to deal with bottoms or disparaging about guys who love us when we fuck them in the ass and don’t ask questions. If you dare protest or dissent, you get called “dude” like two women in this thread. This would seem to indicate that some tranny chasers don’t regard us as women (I realize that some transwomen, a minority to be sure, don’t identify as women) anyway. So then I suppose they ARE having gay sex? I’ve never heard of a National Organization of Tranny Chasers, and if that ‘other’ website is in lieu of one, I think my point is made. If you truly are ‘admirers’ of transwomen, a lot of guys have strange ways of showing it…

To sum-up here, because you (back to Ecstatic’s points) don’t acknowledge categories (that the rest of society does) you can remain invisible, while enjoying the pleasures for which others have suffered and died (think Matthew Shepherd, Sakia Gunn in Newark, Gwen Araujo). So I think it’s disingenuous to argue that you will not be pigeon holed to any category, when so much is at stake in the real world. Those hard social realities mean that a post-op ts woman from Kentucky had her marriage ruled invalid because it was “Gay” marriage. Her hard social reality was that she was unable to inherit the home that she had shared with her late husband. In a perfect society (which you admit ours is not) I would agree with you whole-heartedly: we should be color; gender and orientation blind and refuse to be pigeon holed. However, as long as GLBT people are waging a hard-fought struggle to live, work, play and worship, our strength is best expressed as a collective.

Ecstatic (nearly called you ‘eclipse’ again ) My complaint is that a lot of guys in the tranny chaser lifestyle have way more homosexual contact via bottoming or sucking dick than many Gay men. Yet these guys are often married, so they have “social respectability.” That’s the “best of both worlds…” They give nothing to the glbt community other than paying escorts fees. They don’t help in our civil rights struggles, and I’ve known many a transfan that was an ardent supporter of Bush, Limbaugh and that gang of homophobes. Remember even the Log Cabin Republicans did not endorse Bush. But a shocking number of transfans seem to be hard core conservatives when not getting sodomized in secret. How can you be an ‘admirer’ all the while pledging allegiance to people who HATE us? Finally, even in this thread, the word “Faggot” was being tossed around (again: not by the guys I’m debating) in a pejorative sense so much that I thought I’d happened upon a skinhead website. What’s up with that? Guys who most likely suck dick calling each other “faggots.” Now is that a clear sign of homosexual denial or what?

Begging to be sodomized. Maybe this is where my experiences as a former escort are crucial. I have had clients walk in through my door, rip off their clothes and get on their knees and BEG-yes-Beg for me to fuck them hard. This happened on several occasions and is what I was referring to in my post. I suspect that this behavior is relatively common, although I don’t have the evidence to back-up my hunch.

Gender Roles. You are right. It’s been generally established that transwomen (for the most part) do hold fairly rigid and traditional notions about gender, femininity and masculinity. There was an article in the journal Gender & Society a few years back based upon a clinical survey of various types of transgendered people. Instead of being intent upon challenging the gender norms of society, transgendered people simply wanted to fit in. The authors of the article were fairly critical of this stance because it merely reinforces the structures of oppression and intolerance. Nevertheless, they admitted that since they weren’t living the trans life style that perhaps they were being too judgemental and theoretical rather than pragmatic. There are other studies that confirm those findings.

About Nick Lachey, Ben Affleck and Rock Hudson. Yes, you are right: it’s simply the perception of these men that makes them sexy in women’s eyes. I don’t think that I will ever meet, marry or even have sex with Nick Lachey. (I’m sure Jessica wouldn’t like it anyway) But his masculine walk, self-assurance and confidence are downright sexy! Women, genetic or trans most often find masculine strength attractive—if you doubt me just pick-up any copy of Cosmo—not weakness. I think men that have been tranny chasers and bottoms for a long time lose that part of their identity. I’ve seen a lot of posts by tranny chasers about how they can clock any transwoman. Well, similarly, I can clock any tranny chaser. It’s most likely a keenly developed sense of Gaydar. But there is a difference and as One World stated, women do find the dominant nature of men to be attractive. You don’t see genetic females sitting around pining for a wimpy guy who’s a good bottom. Ever notice how women are attracted to the “bad boy” for better or for worse? The vast majority of transwomen seem to feel similarly that a strongly masculine guy is sexy: not one who claims to be masculine and then is on his knees in two seconds trying to suck dick..

AGE DISJUCTION AGAIN: I’m in my early 30s. A guy that is 50 years old could be my dad. Conceivably, if a guy in his mid-50s is trying to hook-up with a 21 year old, he could be her grandfather!!!! Don’t you see something bizarre about that? Let me tell you, at my “advanced age,” the 19 & 20 year olds that I work with think that I am ancient. Ecstatic, sorry honey, but most 21 year olds would think you a relic regardless of how many push-ups you can do. Let me ask you think: do you honestly think that you would have wanted to screw a 55 year old guy in the ass when you were 21? This is not a personal attack, and I’m sure you are everything that you say you are. But I think that you have to remember, what it’s like to be 21 years old.

Now this does not excuse an escort for being rude. However, I think you can understand why “rushing the session” is the second biggest complaint. Of course failing to get an erection is the chief gripe of tranny chasers. In fact, on that “other’ board, it’s a positive EVIL. But I think you have to consider a bit the mindset of some of the young women who are doing this, who/what they are actually attracted to (21 year old guys!), and add this into the equation. I admit, there were guys that I took a look at them bent over and couldn’t get hard no matter what I did or thought about. Still I got good reviews (even over there!) because I was nice to my clients, personable and talked to them. A lot of the guys I felt bad for b/c they were impotent, or shy, overweight or whatever. Believe it or not, those were my favorites. The guys that came in and tried to pretend they were so straight or were too ‘tgirl’ knowledgeable wells, basically misinformed) were my least favorite regardless of what they looked like.

Sexual dimorphism. Of course it’s a range and not an absolute. On the other hand, women seek out men who are ‘tall, dark and handsome’ do they not? Have you ever known of any women who actually go out seeking men who are shorter than they are? Having a man that’s taller and larger than you is sexy to the vast majority of women be they tranz or gg. Again, read “Cosmo.” (I realize that Cosmo is not the ultimate arbiter of femininity, but I do think it’s representative)

Finally, the ‘what ru into?” point is not that the tranny chasing guy is stating his preferences. In fact, he’s disguising his preferences, hoping you will volunteer to sodomize him. You are 100% right. If a guy’s a pogue, he should own up to it. I think that better communication would do nothing but improve the dysfunction between our hashed together populations.

I have a question. So you want to get fucked in the ass. What makes you think "Geez, I want a dick in my ass: I'll go get a woman?" This seems counterintuitive to me. :roll:

Whew! Have a good night!
Eclipse

[romeo]

wow!!..THIS is a post!!

@eclipse,J, Ecstatic, Shining Star, & LBCDO thanks for this thread

I'm learning a lot and really appreciate your way to discuss :)

[LBCDO]

romeo, np. I refuse to argue on sites because it usually pulls the focus from the topic at hand. Every once in a while I may slip, but i try to keep the peace.

Eclipse, thanks for reaffirming what I have said! A lot of your points are exactly form what I hear from girls who I know, both in and out of the adult industry. Guys claim they are hard, etc, and totally submissive in the bed. I remember a TS friend of mine who was like "Yea, my ex-boyfriend is down from [x] and he doesnt want to give up the butt today. So when you meet him imma be heated at him" Dude is what you would think of when you think of a 50 cent video, thugged out talking about how he does this that and the other, blah blah blah. Also how sometimes, no matter how hard a girl tries, they can not get hard or think of anything to get her hard. LOL, then it made sense when she would buy all the damn XXX movies and play them when she had a date. It wasnt for him , LOL.

The age thing isnt an insult against anybody. Ive got a cousin who is 38 and looks younger than me, drives an avalanche on 24s, dresses just like me, etc. and females automatically assume hes 25 at the oldest. I know a dude that DJs here in ATL and is 35 and hooks up with all the girls 18-23. I know another person who just plain has game and hooks up with girls that are 20 years younger than me, but my point has always been, its not your typical scenario! because if you take my cousin and DJ friend and try to match them with a female their respective ages, it probally wouldnt work.

[Ecstatic]

Excellent post, eclipse. I'm glad to see this train back on track. Your comments are quite astute and reflect substantial thought, research, knowledge, and experience in this area, far more than I can claim. Actually, I don't think we're nearly as far apart as our earlier exchanges indicate. For example, you say:

By your line of argumentation, Dr. King would not have recognized that his struggle was rooted in racial antipathies. Instead, he would have said “I refuse to let race define me.” Then he could have just walked away from the Birmingham bus boycott meeting and the world would be a far worse place because of it. But it’s clear that society had already defined him in racial terms, and he became determined to ACT via group protest.
True--to a point. However, many in the civil rights movement then and since have accused MLK of being too inclusive, seeking to unite all races rather than focusing exclusively on his own people. But MLK was very inclusive in his approach:

I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today.
That of course doesn't mean he didn't fight for the rights and liberties of Blacks or understand and oppose the imbalances of society. He did, but he always kept the dream of the ideal world where such distinctions don't matter in the forefront of his vision. Perhaps I'm overemphasizing the ideal and you the real; both I think are true, and you have to work within the constraints of the latter in order to achieve the goals of the former. If you lose sight of the ideal, then you'll get dragged down by the real; but if you're too idealistic then you won't be able to cope with let alone change the real.


To sum-up here, because you (back to Ecstatic’s points) don’t acknowledge categories (that the rest of society does) you can remain invisible, while enjoying the pleasures for which others have suffered and died (think Matthew Shepherd, Sakia Gunn in Newark, Gwen Araujo). So I think it’s disingenuous to argue that you will not be pigeon holed to any category, when so much is at stake in the real world.
Again, I think this is a matter of emphasis. It's not that I don't acknowledge social categories, it's that I refuse to be defined by them or to let them define others. This means that I--to the best of my ability and understanding, which admittedly can fall short--always try to treat individuals as individuals and not as types. In the broader social context of working for change in society, yes, I acknowledge and work where I can to improve (or even dismantle) those categories based on inequality and prejudice, and I fully concur that this needs to be done. I am not what you would call an activist at this point in my life (perhaps that's a sign of age; in my 20s I was very much an activist in many social areas), but I support positive change wherever and whenever I can. To me, it's the difference between how I see and interact with individuals and how I perceive and participate in larger social structures.

Regarding the example of the post-op ts woman in Kentucky, I find that sort of social response heinous and am proud that, here in Massachusetts, while there may yet be bias and is room for further improvement, such a marriage is now recognized as equal and valid by the courts and constitution of the Commonwealth. True, this is one state out of fifty, and there was a backlash of 11 states passing legislation defining marriage as between a man and a woman in this past election, but it is progress and is indicative of potential change for the better. Without the recognition of those social realities, as you say, the Massachusetts Supreme Court would never have ruled in favor of same sex marriage; but it is through the vision of equality as individuals that the positive change for larger groups emerges.

You're probably right about the frequency of clients "begging" to be sodomized. But do you equate a man who enjoys receiving with one who begs for it? I think there's a definite distinction there. Anal sex for a man is, to my mind, natural and inherently pleasurable. The anus has a tremendous concentration of nerve endings, perhaps more than any other part of the body (I don't have figures to hand to quote), not least of which for a man is the pressure against the prostate during the act. Why shouldn't a man enjoy this? Why does enjoying it make him less of a man? If he appears less masculine, that's because it defies our social definition of masculinity: but that definition is a shared illusion, and should be defied. Given that fact that that definition of masculinity is pervasive in society, I certainly understand a woman's (and thus a transwoman's) desire for a masculine partner, and I agree that few women would be attracted to a man who's begging for it (perhaps only doms of a certain stripe would), but again I think there's quite a difference between those who beg for it and those who enjoy it. As a ts escort, I think you saw an extremely stilted perspective of men "begging" for it, because where else are they going to go for it? (Unless they are gay--not in terms of enjoying anal sex but in terms of being attracted to virile men like Nick Lachey--and seek it in gay relations.) You only see these men in .05% of their lives, under specialized circumstances, so the emphasis on "begging for it" is exaggerated. Yes, I agree that it's common in session with a ts escort, but I question that it is fundamental let alone definitive of their psychology outside those sessions (though for many, I'm sure it is--a range, again).

Using Cosmo as a standard of feminine preference is as suspect as using Playboy as a standard for men, and in fact I'd argue far more so. I have known dozens of women extremely well in my life (sisters, friends, girlfriends, colleagues, etc.) and none of them fit the Cosmo presumptions.

Regarding 21 year olds, I'm sure you're right. I've had maybe two sessions with two TS escorts who were perhaps 21 or 22. The ones I've made deeper connection with are older, though still much younger than I am (closer in age to yourself, actually). I have no pretentions of any romantic relationship with these women, though I have cultivated friendship with them. I think that friendship is definitely possible and that, beyond the moment's pleasure, is what attracts me. I've yet to met a transwoman over 40, so I don't know what that would be like. I doubt that very many, if any, escort, and that's how I'm likely to meet them. Of course people tend to be attracted to people closer to their own age most of the time--though the range I think broadens as one grows older. When I was 21 I did have a very pleasurable encounter with a 50+ man, and yes, I wasn't attracted to him in any remotely romantic way (but the sex was good). Then again, while I've always enjoyed sex with other men, I've never been attracted to a man as a companion.

As for understanding "rushing the session," I do. I simply won't pay a repeat visit to a provider who rushes.


I have a question. So you want to get fucked in the ass. What makes you think "Geez, I want a dick in my ass: I'll go get a woman?" This seems counterintuitive to me. :roll:
I have to say, once again you've typecast me as a dick-hungry bottom. As I noted above, I am attracted to women (including transwomen) but enjoy sexual encounters with men and women. I am bisexual and a pre-op transwoman offers, as the old cliche goes, "the best of both worlds." It's not that I'm hungry for a dick in my ass, it's that I want to have sex with a hot and willing partner who can offer a wide range of sexual play, including "a dick in my ass." I also want the companionship, the foreplay, the chatting afterwards, to smell and feel and make love to her womanly body (paying as much or as little attention to her cock as she wants). If I had more time and money to spend, I would see a wider variety of escorts. But if I pay for play a few times a year, I want to satisfy as many of my desires as I can. A versatile tgirl offers the widest range of satisfaction for me at this point in my life. If that doesn't make sense, then I guess you just won't get it.

BTW, regarding run-on sentences: while I am at times guilty of writing complex and even convoluted sentences, I rarely am guilty of either comma splices or fused sentences. I apologize if sometimes I fall back on excessive use of parenthetical material or fail to edit extremely long sentences down to simpler sentences, but length and complexity do not make run-on sentences. :wink:

[ONEWORLD]

SINCE THERE IS NO DELETE FUNCTION, I ACCIDENTLY POSTED THE ABOVE POST TWICE.

[ONEWORLD]

funny how even though this topic seems to refer to us girls and our
"issues" it seems as if it's the guys that have the real issues.

LOL...SORRY LADIES BUT I MUST DEFEND A WOMAN'S HONOR WHEN
SHE'S BEING ATTACKED BY SOME LONELY, JEALOUS BOTTOM...LOL

MY INTENTIONS ON THIS BOARD WERE TO GIVE A POINT OF VIEW FOR
DUDES LIKE ME, JUST A DIFFERENT SLICE OF LIFE THAT I DON'T REALLY
SEE BEING REPRESENTED BY MANY AND TO LEARN A LITTLE ABOUT THE TG WORLD...NOT THE SAD SOB STORY THAT EVERY CAT HEARS BUT THE OPINIONS AND ISSUES OF THE DAY...

[ONEWORLD]

6. MOST TS GIRLS DONT WANT A RELATIONSHIP WITH A GUY THAT IS A TRANNY CHASER OR WHATEVER U WANT 2 CALL IT. THEY PREFER GUYS THAT ARE "NEW" NOT OUT AND ABOUT.

7. THE REASON...IS...TRANNIE COMMUNITY IS VERY SMALL WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT. WE ALL KNOW EACH OTHER OR OF EACH OTHER. NO GIRL WANTS ANOTHER GIRL'S LEFTOVERS.


YESSSSS...THIS IS VERY TRUE.