Iraq one of U.S.'s Greatest Foreign Policy Disasters

[olite71]

The "war" which began as a continuation of the Global War on Terror "GWOT" first sought justification in national security--i.e. WMD's in Iraq posed a threat to the security of the United States.

Then No WMD's were found.


The justification of the war was therefore shifted a bit--or at least the focal point of the justification was. No longer was it WMD's but it was spreading democracy and freedom to a nation ruled by a tyrant.


Then it was (re)discovered that the belief in the success of "spreading democracy" to vast hostile territories peopled with cultures wholly unfamiliar with the judeo-christian western tradition was nothing less than naive in the best light---naive perhaps for Woodrow Wilson who as an academic first taking the U.S. on the world stage probably didn't know better, but reckless and irresponsible by 21st century leaders who had decades of raelpolitik foreign policy guided by Marshall, Eisenhower, and Kissinger to learn from (and 2 out of 3 from their own party!).

Somewhere during this failure the faint battle cry of "better the terrorists kill there than here" has been heard. This battle cry is a sad testimonial to how low our moral center has descended....

For what it implies is that the USA has the birthright to go into another country and act as a "decoy" to bring in terrorists to phuck up and kill thousands and tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians--as is going on right now.


Saddam was a terrible thing---but living under a tyranny is still better than dying in absolute chaos--and more people have died in the past four years in Iraq then would have died if the tyrant were still in power.

That's not a good report card.


And now we're left with the big humpty dumpty after the fall never to put the pieces back together again...I for one am for staying in there if only to save face for some while--and perhaps that is what's going on...as if the United States were saying to the Iraqi people: "Sorry for helping to cause all this chaos in your country, but we'll stay here and try to pot as many of the bad guys as we can...but it ain't easy, Achmed, it ain't easy."

Sure it ain't easy---and that's why you think long and hard before going on a three mile swim after you've eaten a pizza and drunk a case of beer--and it's why you learn from history before blundering blindly into the same old mistakes founded on the same faulty theories.

[guyone]

The Kurds seem pretty happy.

[olite71]

The Kurds seem pretty happy.

Well, the hundreds of thousands dead must be happy too--because they ain't complaining.

The Kurds seem pretty happy.

Well, the hundreds of thousands dead must be happy too--because they ain't complaining.

They're too busy with their 72 virgins.

[olite71]

The Kurds seem pretty happy.

Well, the hundreds of thousands dead must be happy too--because they ain't complaining.

They're too busy with their 72 virgins.



And who are the thousands of dead virgins busy with?

[guyone]

As I said before the Kurds are very happy.

[olite71]

As I said before the Kurds are very happy.



Assuming they are, the goal of this war was never to "make the Kurds Happy at the price of driving Iraq into chaos."


Hell, the shareholders of Halliburton and Raytheon are very happy too, What's your point?

Hell, the shareholders of Halliburton and Raytheon are very happy too, What's your point?

LMAO!!!

Halliburton lost about 2.5 BILLION dollars in 2006 doing work in Iraq that BIG OIL won't do. How are they happy? :lol:

[olite71]

Hell, the shareholders of Halliburton and Raytheon are very happy too, What's your point?

LMAO!!!

Halliburton lost about 2.5 BILLION dollars in 2006 doing work in Iraq that BIG OIL won't do. How are they happy? :lol:


Halliburton's shareholders have made a ton of money from 2003 through 2007... The war has enhanced their position not hurt it, even including the loss you cite above.

Hell, the shareholders of Halliburton and Raytheon are very happy too, What's your point?

LMAO!!!

Halliburton lost about 2.5 BILLION dollars in 2006 doing work in Iraq that BIG OIL won't do. How are they happy? :lol:


Halliburton's shareholders have made a ton of money from 2003 through 2007... The war has enhanced their position not hurt it, even including the loss you cite above.

While true that speculators have driven the stock up, that has hardly anything to do with anything.

[guyone]

...and the Kurds are still happy!

[olite71]

Hell, the shareholders of Halliburton and Raytheon are very happy too, What's your point?

LMAO!!!

Halliburton lost about 2.5 BILLION dollars in 2006 doing work in Iraq that BIG OIL won't do. How are they happy? :lol:


Halliburton's shareholders have made a ton of money from 2003 through 2007... The war has enhanced their position not hurt it, even including the loss you cite above.

While true that speculators have driven the stock up, that has hardly anything to do with anything.



Don't play dumb--or is that what you do when you don't have a point? Speculators alone have not driven the stock up--Halliburton has reaped gigantic profits in the last four years which has a hell of a lot more to do with the stock prices than does speculation. This isn't some kind of penny stock or internet stock--this is a company with hard assets and technology that trades on its earnings reports.

That being said--let me put a dose of ritalin back into the conversation so you don't lose the thread of the issue--which was--the fact that the Kurds are happy is about as relevant as the state of bliss that Halliburton stockholders are in as a result of the Iraq War.....All wars put some segment of the populace in a better position---but unless the war WAS FOR THE PURPOSE OF PUTTING THAT SEGMENT IN A BETTER POSITION, the war has not achieved its aims.

Now, as I look back, I do not remember in 2003 our President stating that we need to go into Iraq to "make the Kurds happy," or to "put Halliburton in a better financial situation."

And that is the point of the thread---The Kurds being happy? (even assuming that were true) is completely irrelevant. Just as irrelevant as the happiness of Halliburton shareholders....Capisci?

Hell, the shareholders of Halliburton and Raytheon are very happy too, What's your point?

LMAO!!!

Halliburton lost about 2.5 BILLION dollars in 2006 doing work in Iraq that BIG OIL won't do. How are they happy? :lol:


Halliburton's shareholders have made a ton of money from 2003 through 2007... The war has enhanced their position not hurt it, even including the loss you cite above.

While true that speculators have driven the stock up, that has hardly anything to do with anything.



Don't play dumb--or is that what you do when you don't have a point? Speculators alone have not driven the stock up--Halliburton has reaped gigantic profits in the last four years which has a hell of a lot more to do with the stock prices than does speculation. This isn't some kind of penny stock or internet stock--this is a company with hard assets and technology that trades on its earnings reports.

Or speculation on earnings outlooks, which is why they're called "SPECULATORS".

[olite71]

Hell, the shareholders of Halliburton and Raytheon are very happy too, What's your point?

LMAO!!!

Halliburton lost about 2.5 BILLION dollars in 2006 doing work in Iraq that BIG OIL won't do. How are they happy? :lol:


Halliburton's shareholders have made a ton of money from 2003 through 2007... The war has enhanced their position not hurt it, even including the loss you cite above.

While true that speculators have driven the stock up, that has hardly anything to do with anything.



Don't play dumb--or is that what you do when you don't have a point? Speculators alone have not driven the stock up--Halliburton has reaped gigantic profits in the last four years which has a hell of a lot more to do with the stock prices than does speculation. This isn't some kind of penny stock or internet stock--this is a company with hard assets and technology that trades on its earnings reports.

Or speculation on earnings outlooks, which is why they're called "SPECULATORS".


Even if speculation was 99% of the reason-- it is still speculation on earnings' outlooks BECAUSE of EARNINGS POTENTIALS IN IRAQ--which in essence is my point---increased stock price BECAUSE of IRAQ (whether caused by speculation on future earnings in Iraq or by ACTUAL earnings in Iraq)...so even assuming your cause of the increase in stock price is correct, you still do not rebut my assertion that Halliburton's association with the war in Iraq makes Halliburton shareholders happy.

Thanks for playing, though.

[guyone]

And that is the point of the thread---The Kurds being happy? (even assuming that were true) is completely irrelevant. Just as irrelevant as the happiness of Halliburton shareholders....Capisci?

http://www.kurdsloveamerica.com/

Wake up and smell the Baklava!

[olite71]

And that is the point of the thread---The Kurds being happy? (even assuming that were true) is completely irrelevant. Just as irrelevant as the happiness of Halliburton shareholders....Capisci?

http://www.kurdsloveamerica.com/

Wake up and smell the Baklava!



Yeah, I know the drill--when you run out of ideas (or have none to begin with) post pictures and captions.

Even if speculation was 99% of the reason-- it is still speculation on earnings' outlooks BECAUSE of EARNINGS POTENTIALS IN IRAQ--which in essence is my point---increased stock price BECAUSE of IRAQ (whether caused by speculation on future earnings in Iraq or by ACTUAL earnings in Iraq)...so even assuming your cause of the increase in stock price is correct, you still do not rebut my assertion that Halliburton's association with the war in Iraq makes Halliburton shareholders happy.

LOL. What? You think Michael Moore and other Halliburton shareholders are the only group making money? What about Mrs Diane Feinstein's Perini Corp? :lol:

[olite71]

Even if speculation was 99% of the reason-- it is still speculation on earnings' outlooks BECAUSE of EARNINGS POTENTIALS IN IRAQ--which in essence is my point---increased stock price BECAUSE of IRAQ (whether caused by speculation on future earnings in Iraq or by ACTUAL earnings in Iraq)...so even assuming your cause of the increase in stock price is correct, you still do not rebut my assertion that Halliburton's association with the war in Iraq makes Halliburton shareholders happy.

LOL. What? You think Michael Moore and other Halliburton shareholders are the only group making money? What about Mrs Diane Feinstein's Perini Corp? :lol:


That is completely irrelevant.... But thank you for admitting my point in your zeal to point out that other Republican bugbears are making money TOO.

Sooner or later every kindergarnder falls into that trap. Like I said, if you were concerned with ideas instead of cheerleading, you maybe would have something to say.

Even if speculation was 99% of the reason-- it is still speculation on earnings' outlooks BECAUSE of EARNINGS POTENTIALS IN IRAQ--which in essence is my point---increased stock price BECAUSE of IRAQ (whether caused by speculation on future earnings in Iraq or by ACTUAL earnings in Iraq)...so even assuming your cause of the increase in stock price is correct, you still do not rebut my assertion that Halliburton's association with the war in Iraq makes Halliburton shareholders happy.

LOL. What? You think Michael Moore and other Halliburton shareholders are the only group making money? What about Mrs Diane Feinstein's Perini Corp? :lol:


That is completely irrelevant.... But thank you for admitting my point in your zeal to point out that other Republican bugbears are making money TOO.

Sooner or later every kindergarnder falls into that trap. Like I said, if you were concerned with ideas instead of cheerleading, you maybe would have something to say.


One of the reasons for American global dominance is the incentive to innovate. It's why we're dominant and winning in Iraq. Take away the carrot at the end of the stick and we're Soviet Russia. If the strength of America's military is diminished then so will our global dominance and way of life as well.

[guyone]

OLITE71:


You must live one door over from Ted Kaczynski.

Click the link. See I made it real pretty for you.

http://www.kurdsloveamerica.com/


The president of Kurdistan has nothing but praise for America. If you still don't believe that then it's time to get back on your meds.

[olite71]

OLITE71:


You must live one door over from Ted Kaczynski.

Click the link. See I made it real pretty for you.

http://www.kurdsloveamerica.com/


The president of Kurdistan has nothing but praise for America. If you still don't believe that then it's time to get back on your meds.


You're another one who can't read. Please find above where I once stated that the Kurds "were not happy."

The point was that the Kurds happiness is largely irrelevant to the overall policy in Iraq and its legacy in american foreign policy.


Yeah--we made Batista's family very happy when we intervened in Cuba too---but that had little to do with the overall state of Cuba. Get it? Guess not.

You and TFAN should enroll in a hooked on phonics course together--maybe you'd get a group rate or something.

[guyone]

Olite71 in dire need of Aricept said:


You're another one who can't read. Please find above where I once stated that the Kurds "were not happy."


Olite71 stated previously through what must have been a drunken haze:


And that is the point of the thread---The Kurds being happy? (even assuming that were true) is completely irrelevant. Just as irrelevant as the happiness of Halliburton shareholders....Capisci?

[chefmike]

The Kurds seem pretty happy.

Fuck the kurds.

Fuck the Iraq war.

Fuck the chickenhawks like you who want others to continue dying for a big lie.

[guyone]

Dear ChefMike,

I think you need some love.

Love,

Guyone

PS- and the Kurds love you as well because they are happy and love Americans.

[guyone]

I think the US is afraid if the Kurds gains their independence that Turkey will feel Kurdistan would be ripe for the taking in order to start rebuilding its Ottoman empire. Which I guess is not such a bad thing since I just paid $800 for two ottomans. Maybe the price would come down?

[guyone]

They are very, very happy with the toppling of Saddam. They also realize that their fight now is with Turkey and not the US.

(click below link)

http://www.kurdsloveamerica.com/

The Kurds seem pretty happy.

Fuck the kurds.

Fuck the Iraq war.

Fuck the chickenhawks like you who want others to continue dying for a big lie.

The only lie around here is the "Warhero" bullshit you've been selling yourself as on here.

[olite71]

Olite71 in dire need of Aricept said:


You're another one who can't read. Please find above where I once stated that the Kurds "were not happy."


Olite71 stated previously through what must have been a drunken haze:


And that is the point of the thread---The Kurds being happy? (even assuming that were true) is completely irrelevant. Just as irrelevant as the happiness of Halliburton shareholders....Capisci?

Like I said--you can't read. I did not say they were happy... I don't assert they are happy or unhappy. I am saying that assuming that it is true that they are happy, it is irrelevant.


Your use of pictures again betrays the fact that you have nothing to say.

[olite71]

Olite71 in dire need of Aricept said:


You're another one who can't read. Please find above where I once stated that the Kurds "were not happy."


Olite71 stated previously through what must have been a drunken haze:


And that is the point of the thread---The Kurds being happy? (even assuming that were true) is completely irrelevant. Just as irrelevant as the happiness of Halliburton shareholders....Capisci?

Like I said--you can't read. I did not say they were unhappy... I don't assert they are happy or unhappy. I am saying that assuming that it is true that they are happy, it is irrelevant.


Your use of pictures again betrays the fact that you have nothing to say.

[chefmike]

The Kurds seem pretty happy.

Fuck the kurds.

Fuck the Iraq war.

Fuck the chickenhawks like you who want others to continue dying for a big lie.

The only lie around here is the "Warhero" bullshit you've been selling yourself as on here.

When did I claim to have ever served in a war, TFool?

Please feel free to substantiate your latest bogus claim with examples, chump...

Apparently your glaringly obvious envy of those of us who have actually served in the US armed forces has left you even more of a clueless chickenhawk than you usually are...if that's possible. :lol:

And one more thing, TFool...

Go fuck your mother, you coward....

If she'll still have you, that is. :P

When did I claim to have ever served in a war?

LMAO! Then stop trying to pass yourself off as a John McCain.

LMAO!


You never served in a war so you're no expert on what a chickenhawk is. Though, you do know what "SURRENDER" is, right? :lol: Chickenchicken?

No war service?

Want to say that again?

[guyone]

Olite71


Your use of pictures again betrays the fact that you have nothing to say.



Your use of words illustrates the fact that you have nothing worthwhile to say.

[chefmike]

What did you say, chickenhawk?

No military service?

That's what i thought, TFool.

Unfit to serve the country that you claim to love?

Or just a coward?

[olite71]

Olite71


Your use of pictures again betrays the fact that you have nothing to say.



Your use of words illustrates the fact that you have nothing worthwhile to say.

All the words in this forum speak for themselves. And I am highly confident that should an objective third party glean the posts up and down, that my posts would be given due respect and that yours would be justifiably mistaken for shit stains on the floor of the ape pen at the zoo.

[LG]

Olite71


Your use of pictures again betrays the fact that you have nothing to say.



Your use of words illustrates the fact that you have nothing worthwhile to say.

All the words in this forum speak for themselves. And I am highly confident that should an objective third party glean the posts up and down, that my posts would be given due respect and that yours would be justifiably mistaken for shit stains on the floor of the ape pen at the zoo.

And what about TFan's posts?

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f301/flippy70/elephant20shit.jpg

[guyone]

All the words in this forum speak for themselves. And I am highly confident that should an objective third party glean the posts up and down, that my posts would be given due respect and that yours would be justifiably mistaken for shit stains on the floor of the ape pen at the zoo.

Researchers have tested Aricept on people with mild and moderate Alzheimer’s. They also tested it on those with severe Alzheimer’s. The studies showed that Aricept helps cognition and function, which includes effects on memory and performing everyday tasks.

OLITE71 THIS WILL HELP!

[chefmike]

Olite71


Your use of pictures again betrays the fact that you have nothing to say.



Your use of words illustrates the fact that you have nothing worthwhile to say.

All the words in this forum speak for themselves. And I am highly confident that should an objective third party glean the posts up and down, that my posts would be given due respect and that yours would be justifiably mistaken for shit stains on the floor of the ape pen at the zoo.

And what about TFan's posts?

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f301/flippy70/elephant20shit.jpg

LMFAO, LG!

[olite71]

All the words in this forum speak for themselves. And I am highly confident that should an objective third party glean the posts up and down, that my posts would be given due respect and that yours would be justifiably mistaken for shit stains on the floor of the ape pen at the zoo.

Researchers have tested Aricept on people with mild and moderate Alzheimer’s. They also tested it on those with severe Alzheimer’s. The studies showed that Aricept helps cognition and function, which includes effects on memory and performing everyday tasks.

OLITE71 THIS WILL HELP!


Too bad there's no drug to help imbecility. I'm sure you'd qualify under your local welfare statutes.

[guyone]

Aricept baby!

[olite71]

Aricept baby!



Lethal injection, baby!

[guyone]

Wow you're violent.

[olite71]

Wow you're violent.


No. Just thinking in the best interests of your family and the decades of future embarrassment that can be avoided with a sodium pentathol and potassium cyanide cocktail.

[guyone]

I didn't think institutionalized people were given internet access.

[olite71]

I didn't think institutionalized people were given internet access.



Impossible. Here you are.

[guyone]

Calm down...count to ten...then ask to talk to a counselor. It's not healthy to be discussing murdering people you don't know on the internet.

[qeuqheeg222]

im not sure if this is the worst blunder the u.s has ever done-take a long good look at our history,especially in regards to the monroe doctine and how our relations with latin america have soured..venezuela,colombia,cuba,chile,haiti(this alone shows u.s.hypocrisy when it comes to democracy and freedom),el salvador?dios mio the list goes on and on....

[guyone]

The US is a piece of fucking shit! The world should just flush it right down the fucking toilet.

[olite71]

Calm down...count to ten...then ask to talk to a counselor. It's not healthy to be discussing murdering people you don't know on the internet.


Actually it's not healty to prescribe to someone else a regimen necessary for yourself. Your counselor will explain to you the ins and outs of classic projection.

Good luck.

[guyone]

They continue to let you have access to the internet? I'm very surprised.

[qeuqheeg222]

so much of this iraq debacle and war on terror goes way back into the early 20th century(ottoman empire,english and french colonial aspirations) right thru to the cold war and our meddlin in something that we really didnt understand or see the long term picture...we provide a easy target for zealots with bad foreign policy that goes from hypocrisy to blind...why didnt bush sr. invade when he had a real coalition of the willing????and a lot of money from international sources to do so...personally i think this iraq thing started as a distraction for the media to focus on in 2002,2003 because the right was goin thru some dramma at that time and they were facing a senate election at the time so they need to play the fear/terrror/patriot act card..in order to keep in power...

[thombergeron]

They are very, very happy with the toppling of Saddam. They also realize that their fight now is with Turkey and not the US.

(click below link)

http://www.kurdsloveamerica.com/

Things are rosy in Kurdistan:

Iraqi police post offers insecurity, no protection (http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=20020)

Two Kirkuk blasts kill 22 civilians (http://www.kuna.net.kw/Home/Story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=961675)

Sixteen Iraqis killed, wounded including soldiers in Mosul (http://www.kuna.net.kw/home/Story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=961860)

[guyone]

They still love america!

[chefmike]

They still love america!

You should be over there "loving America" in the same manner, shouldn't you, chickenhawk?

Don't let us keep you from visiting the recruiting office, gomerone!

Move it, Pyle!

[thombergeron]

They still love america!

Well, far be it from me to question the accuracy of some guy with a web site called kurdsloveamerica.com, but according to a poll conducted last September, a bit over half of the Kurds approve of the U.S., at least as expressed as "confidence in the U.S. military":

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/home_page/250.php?nid=&id=&pnt=250&lb=hmpg1

The same poll, however, finds that two-thirds of Kurds want the U.S. out within two years. More cut and runners...

So, four years in, and we've won over 55% of the ethnic group that makes up 20% of the Iraqi population. I guess you have to set your standard for success somewhere.

[guyone]

Wow! You guys are so mired in negativity!