QUESTION....HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT.........

[GroobySteven]

Actually just reaslised I think we missed taking a recent one down....
...will check into it.

Generally if a model has died, we'll put a note up saying we're going to remove the pics at X-date so any of her fans can get the pics, we then remove them permantly. This is done out of respect for her friends and family and for a reason you won't here most people stating (but it's honest) - it's hard to masturbate over someone you know has died since that photoshoot.
We then replace the photoshoot with a couple of tasteful pictures (sometimes given to us by her friends) and a few words about her life and death.

With 3000+ models over the sites it's not un-common.
seanchai

[Mugai_hentaisha]

JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY......HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT TRANNY PORNO WEBSITES STILL USING PICTURES OF GIRLS THAT HAVE PASSED AWAY ....I KNOW SHEMALE YUM AND A FEW OTHERS TAKE DOWN PICS OF GIRLS THAT HAVE DIED......I JUST CANT LOOK AT PICS OF GIRLS WHO I KNOW HAVE PASSED AWAY.....IM NOT TALKING ABOUT KNOWNING THEM PERSONALLY , SOME I KNEW , SOME I DIDNT , BUT I STILL DONT LIKE TO SEE PICS LIKE THAT......THIS IS NOT A SHADDY POST AND IM NOT TRYING TO START TROUBLE....AS MOST OF YOU KNOW MY GIRL WHO WAS A WIFE TO ME ( 5 YEARS TOGETHER ) PASSED AWAY AT ON 26 YEARS OLD.......I DONT LIKE SEEING PICS OF GIRLS THAT I KNOW HAVE PASSED ON......WHATT DO YOU GUYS AND GIRLS THINK......


GIRLS.....IF YOUR PIC IS OUT THERE ON A WEBSITE AND YOU PASSED ON WOULD YOU WANT YOUR PIC STILL ON A WEBSITE OR WOULD YOU PERFER TO BE REMEMBERED IN A DIFFERENT WAY....


IM SURE SOME OF YOU GIRLS MIGHT THINK ITS AN HONOR TO BE REMEMBERED LIKE THAT, BUT I FEEL A LOSS FOR THE PERSON NOT THE PORNO STAR......


AGAIN<>>>>IM NOT TRYING TO START A BIG DEBATE OR A FIGHT.....MY OPINION IS MY OPINION....IM JUST CURIOUS HOW YOU FEEL.....DONT TRY TO CHANGE MY OPINION , IM NOT GONNA TRY AND CHANGE ANY OF YOURS...I KNOW THERES PEOPLE ON THIS SITE WHO JUST WANNA START TROUBLE WITH ANYTHING I SAY BUT IM BEING SERIOUS..........

Damn good question mega if it were me and my pics were out there after I had left this reality i wouldn't mind a pic or two of mine being post on dedication type website but as for a regular type porno site i am not so sure.

i feel as you do Mega i like the person a hell of alot more than the pornstar to me that is their job not who they are totally. Maybe someone should start a dedicaton type website to all the Ladies who have passed on no matter the cause, just a way of honoring them.

[Tanabata]

I'm with you 100% on this one, Mega. I don't like seeing porn images of a girl who has passed away. I like Seanchai's idea, also.

[roy404]

I also agree with you. I also think the sites should also quite using photo's that are 25 years old. Last week I ran into a photo set I took in the 70's. I also think if the girl is now post-op the old photo should come down. Such as Carnal Candy. There are a few girls that were very big in the BIZ a while back that have gone on the straight jobs and there are photo's of them still floating around. Most of the major pay sites, like YUM, have the girls sign releases. Believe me that was not always the case and many girls were taken advantage of. My SO now works for a Fortune 100 company and some of her photo's are still out there. She never signed a release for.

[GroobySteven]

If she signed the release it wouldn't have given her any further rights - the general release signs her photos over to be the sole right and ownership of the photographer or company, to do so as they wish.
It's for the companies protection and not the models. It's also a legal requirment to do so, now.
seanchai

[TexasTman]

I think that posting their pictures after death is okay, however, I think that it should be notated that the model has passed on. It would be especially nice if there could be a separate section, sort of an "In Memoriam" that you could click on and see some "tasteful" pics of a girl that has passed away. That would be a nice tribute yet it would allow for someone like MEGA to avoid that section altogether if they felt uncomfortable viewing those pictures!

[flabbybody]

J, you've never done anything in your life that you regretted? I've spoken to a few tgirls who have posed when they were 18 or 19 and wish they could have their photo's removed from the net. And we're not talking about elderly people dying of natural causes. We're talking about very young people who have had unhappy lives and tragic deaths. Surely you can't have a problem removing the pics, if nothing more, to comfort their family and friends.

[Ecstatic]

I agree with you, flabby. I know one girl who has steadfastly refused to do any porno shots (no matter how soft core) because she does not want those images to haunt her 5, 10, 20 years down the line, and the income she'd get from posing would be trivial compared to that risk. But as you say, many young girls may not think ahead, especially when first starting out, and regret it later on.

Leaving up some nice glamour shots which are non-porno (non-soft core for that matter) in memoriam of a girl is a good idea, I think, unless the family specifically asks that all photos be taken down, in which case I would honor their wishes. Of course, I don't run a tgirl site, so that's easy for me to say. Seanchai does an acceptable compromise to me, listing a date by which the photos will be pulled, but, intentional or not, this probably drives traffic to the site for that period of time, so I don't think it's wholly altruistic (but still a good approach).

[GroobySteven]

Seanchai does an acceptable compromise to me, listing a date by which the photos will be pulled, but, intentional or not, this probably drives traffic to the site for that period of time, so I don't think it's wholly altruistic (but still a good approach).

As I only post this on THE MEMBERS SECTION OF THE WEBSITE, I don't think it's going to drive any traffic to the site. Another case of presumption instead of asking me for the facts.

I'm a ruthless self-promoter but I don't need a member that badly.
seanchai

[flabbybody]

there was a NYC girl who we lost last year and I think Grooby dealt with it with a lot of class.

[Ecstatic]

As I only post this on THE MEMBERS SECTION OF THE WEBSITE, I don't think it's going to drive any traffic to the site. Another case of presumption instead of asking me for the facts.

I'm a ruthless self-promoter but I don't need a member that badly.
seanchai
You misunderstand my point, seanchai. Traffic within the site WILL increase in direct relation to the number of members who CHOOSE to view these images and their associated pages while they can. This will in turn increase pageviews, session length, and other web metrics which you MIGHT use in marketing the site, setting goals, etc. This could all be unintentional (which I said--so please don't accuse me of "another case of presumption"), and may be incidental to your total traffic. I was a tad unclear in saying "this probably drives traffic to the site" since actually it would drive traffic from within the site, not from outside, but if members view these pages and images during that time when they would not have otherwise, your web metrics will track that increase. And it could drive some traffic to the site if a member tells someone else to visit the site before they take so-and-so's pictures down.

Now how you manage your web metrics and utilize them for marketing purposes, I don't know and won't presume. That's up to you. You don't plaster your pages with banner ads, so you're not exploiting content in that manner (for which I thank you).

[GroobySteven]

Come on Ecstatic - that's a back-track on what you said?

Not selling banner space, not selling advertisements or such on the site we don't measure "web metrics" (huh?) - I really fail to see how removing a girls photos and announcing her death to the members of the website does anything to increase my membership? If anything it means we have to state we have less models and less photos on the site?

Your assertion that I use "web-metrics" is actually, another presumption :o

Come on you screwed up, it's no biggie, just say, "I didn't realise that, you're correct" if you need to make any posting instead of backtracking.
seanchai

[Ecstatic]

seanchai, I apologize if what I said offended you; that was never my intention. But read my post again: I did NOT say you DON'T use web metrics--where do you get that?

Not selling banner space, not selling advertisements or such on the site we don't measure "web metrics" (huh?)
You do very little advertising on your sites compared to most other sites out there--congrats on that. Most of your ads are either in-house or for special events like Allanah's parties (I have no idea if you run annoucements for her as a favor or for a fee--it really doesn't matter as it's a great service). But I never said or implied that you don't measure web metrics--I ASSumed that you do.

Also, I never said that removing a girl's photos and announcing her death to your members in any way increases or is meant to increase your membership. I only said that such annoucements (which I think are a good and commendable service--absolutely, be proud of it) also likely serve--probably unintentionally--to increase your traffic as measured in pageviews and session lengths. Traffic is NOT synonymous with membership--far from it. Traffic is the aggregate of all requests to your servers. Drawing members' attention to a girl's gallery by pointing out that said gallery will be removed on a given date--while a good service--will likely drive pageviews and session lengths in that gallery, which overall is a benefit to your site. NOT THAT DOING THIS IS BAD--it's simply a fact of traffic on the server(s) involved.


Your assertion that I use "web-metrics" is actually, another presumption :o
Yes, it is. But come on, seanchai. You operate probably the biggest (and probably by a good margin) set of shemale websites on the net: are you telling me you DON'T use web metrics to track and analyze your traffic to improve services and marketing? I would find that very hard to believe. All web servers log all requests to the server. Every webmaster I know runs web metrics against those logs to track and analyze the performance of the site(s). I've been a webmaster for eight years on sites which typically generate 3.5 million pageviews a month: of course I run web metrics and use that data to evaluate how the site is performing, how to improve service, how to market the site.

Again, I apologize if I implied that you were trying to profit from announcing a girl's passing and leaving her photos up for a specified period of time. I was simply pointing out that you likely do benefit from increased pageviews and session lengths in such a gallery for the time that it is up. When it comes down, you lose traffic there. If your intent is purely to respect the deceased, then why not take down all XXX photos in her gallery immediately, and just leave those which are not XXX?

[GroobySteven]

are you telling me you DON'T use web metrics to track and analyze your traffic to improve services and marketing? I would find that very hard to believe. All web servers log all requests to the server. Every webmaster I know runs web metrics against those logs to track and analyze the performance of the site(s).
Seriously, never needed to. We only spend on advertising on one place. I don't need to know where the traffic is coming from as long as it's coming. Maybe we could increase sales by doing this but the time I spend doing that would take it away from doing other things (and therefore lose members).



If your intent is purely to respect the deceased, then why not take down all XXX photos in her gallery immediately, and just leave those which are not XXX?

Re-read my original post. I never said the intent is purely to respect the deceased.

No offense taken - just answering the questions you should have asked of me first!
seanchai

[Ecstatic]

Seriously, never needed to. We only spend on advertising on one place. I don't need to know where the traffic is coming from as long as it's coming. Maybe we could increase sales by doing this but the time I spend doing that would take it away from doing other things (and therefore lose members).
That's your choice, but it quite surprises me. There are a great many reasons to run web metrics beyond knowing where traffic is coming from or to position the site(s) for sales (though the later is the top reason for most sites). Even a superficial examination of your metrics can help you to evaluate the success of the site(s) and improve the way you're serving your members: for example, which galleries are the most popular, which are the least, what parts of the site are not drawing the traffic you'd like (which can provide valuable data for improving those parts), user parameters such as platform and browser usage, session length, etc. If you're running ads on other sites (which I know you do), a quick look at referrals will show which are the most successful; likewise, a quick look at keywords and search engines will show what's working there. If you don't care or don't think you need to care about any of this, that's your call. The Grooby sites are certainly successful, but you may be missing some excellent opportunities to improve your sites and services and be even more successful.

[hillbilly]

whether its right or wrong i don't know but in the very least seems to be in poor taste.

guess its my own problem that it makes me uncomfortable. oh well.

[GroobySteven]

It's not that we don't care Ecstatic - it's time management vs usefullness.
We only pay for 1 site for advertising and I know it works - the rest are referrers so it doesn't matter how many are out there, or how they're performing, that's up to the referral owner.
I think there is a large difference from running adult sites to non-adult sites, we see our income immediately change if we make changes - most non-adult ones (unless direct sales) need to watch the statistics to see what they're paying for.
seanchai

[Ecstatic]

I'm sure that's true, seanchai. You're obviously successful at what you do. But if you're not looking at your metrics at all, you're driving blind, or at least with one eye closed. I know you solicit and pay attention to members' opinions in your forums: but metrics tracks all site activity, so you might well see patterns which are not obvious otherwise. What type of gallery is the most successful? Members can tell you in the forums if they wish to, but metrics will give you the actual numbers. It's up to you--I could write a thesis on the benefits of metrics (in fact, I have published three articles in a major web technology magazine to that end), but there's no point in going into it here. But if I were you I'd want to check occasionally just to get an overview, see how sessions run, what pages are really working, etc.

You only pay one site for ads? I've seen SMY and other ads running on a number of sites. Neat trick if they advertise for you for free. But all links to your sites are referrers, not just "the rest", and how they're performing is not just up to the referral owner. If they're running your creative, if that creative is really old, there are many factors.

Oh well, just raising a point which is apparently not of interest to you and surely not to anyone else here, so I'll not mention it again.