Transsexual Performer Abuse - KHLOE HART.

[GroobySteven]

I wanted to bring into the light a situation which happened to Khloe Hart, a Shemale Yum/Buddy Wood performer. on Thurs which I think the fanbase as well as producers and models should be aware of and open discussion on it.

Those of you who don't know, Khloe is a very pretty 19 yr old transsexual from San Diego who has worked as a model for Shemale Yum and done two scenes in Buddy Wood's DVD's with us. She's a great girl who has posted on this site and has aspirations of being an adult performer, although she is self-admittedly a little naive about the business.
Since she started posting on this site, a number of producers became interested and she went to LA to work on a Wendy Williams production and a Joey Silvera movie among others, she was very excited about working with a lot of named stars and expecting to have the same professionalism and easy going shoots that she'd had with Buddy.

The first shoot she turned up to the location and there was only the director and the performer - I have their names and will post them when I verify them - or hopefully Khloe can. She'd been told it was for a sex scene but the scene turned so rough and abusive that she was scared, humiliated, beaten and abused. I'm not going to over-react here and say the guys beat her up but she has bruises on her ass, shoulders and back from slapping, bite mark and cuts around her anus area (through over agressive sex). Her false eyelashes were ripped off and put in her mouth and she was choked.

This was on Thurs and as of today (Saturday) she still has the bruises.
She was traumatised and came home, cried all night and cancelled her other shoots. She didn't want to post this herself as she felt embarressed and also worried that if she did decide to continue in this industry, then it might go against her.
This is NOT how a shoot should go - not for a seasoned performer and certainly not for a new girl coming into the industry. If you signup specifically for this sort of shoot and agree to it beforehand (and are paid accordingly) then that's one thing but to go to a shoot and be scared and abused, is completely different.

I've re-assured Khloe that this is not how the industry works and not how reputable producers work - this is not the norm and making a statement about it will not affect her working with other producers.

As a business person, this is bad for the industry an industry which thrives on fresh faces and on models feeling safe and comfortable, especially in their first shoots. If Khloe decides not to shoot again, it will be a loss to us all - if potential new transsexual models think this is how they will be treated then we all have problems.

As a fan of Tgirl porn, I'm pretty pissed off. I've seen the more abusive videos, my friend Joey Silvera sometimes produces them but no girl ever complains about him because he doesn't do it without consent, discussion and making the performers comfortable.

As a retailer, even though we would only expect to sell about 50 of any one title through Shemale-Video-Direct, I won't take this product and won't promote it.

Some of you, I'm sure will say that Khloe is naive (she is) and as a performer how could she not expect that ... but for new tgirls in this industry there is no group unlike girl performers who usually work for bigger contract companies or can at least read forums where producers/models rate each other. There is no excuse whatsoever for forcing somebody to do something they didn't wish to - and although legal action could be taken, she's decided not to take that route and put it down to bad experience.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I will be talking to some other producers and talent about the possibility of having our own closed forum for industry support. I hope Khloe will come back onto this site and continue to contribute and I hope she'll decide that there are good producers out there aside from Buddy Wood and do work with them while ensuring that she doesn't do anything that she doesn't want to again.

In light of recent events and complaints about violence against transsexuals, this is another area which rarely gets looked at - abuse within the adult industry.

seanchai

http://www.grooby.com/blog/

[wendy48088]

* Deleted *

[WendyWilliams]

I have spoken to her several times today and I have informed her if she EVER needs anything, anyone, advice she can call me. As a producer I am on 90% of my shoots and always speak with the girls in detail about what they are willing and NOT willing to do............Khloe is such a sweet girl and I really hope she can put this aside and move in whatever direction she chooses.................I have been blessed that in my 4 years of shooting I have only had 1 bad experience but I also wasnt 19 when I started and I had Joanna Jet to guide me and help.

Wendy

[Legend]

i hope she is ok but in order for this to never happen again to her she must look at industry as a whole it brings negatively like that situation she was in,not saying all the people are bad guys but 1 out of 10 this will happen again or something simliar.

For every good guy there are people in the industry that could care less about there workers safety as long as they get the perfect angle.She is 19 best advice for her is to leave that kind of work and get a real job.


No disrespect to anyone of this site thats just what i feel.

[GroobySteven]

i hope she is ok but in order for this to never happen again to her she must look at industry as a whole it brings negatively like that situation she was in,not saying all the people are bad guys but 1 out of 10 this will happen again or something simliar.

For every good guy there are people in the industry that could care less about there workers safety as long as they get the perfect angle.She is 19 best advice for her is to leave that kind of work and get a real job.


No disrespect to anyone of this site thats just what i feel.

Shut the fuck up Legend. Don't talk about what you don't know about.

seanchai

[Fox]

That's just terrible. I really hope this doesn't break her spirit.

[GroobySteven]

i hope she is ok but in order for this to never happen again to her she must look at industry as a whole it brings negatively like that situation she was in,not saying all the people are bad guys but 1 out of 10 this will happen again or something simliar.

For every good guy there are people in the industry that could care less about there workers safety as long as they get the perfect angle.She is 19 best advice for her is to leave that kind of work and get a real job.


No disrespect to anyone of this site thats just what i feel.

Shut the fuck up Legend. Don't talk about what you don't know about.

seanchai

Actually, I apologise for snapping at you - that was uncalled for.
Please think before you write. Performing is a "proper job" - maybe not for all but for those who make that choice, they are professionals in that industry. It's hard work, taxes are paid on the earnings and we treat them as employees.

I'd prefer if this topic didn't digress, so my apologies again.
seanchai

[Legend]

i hope she is ok but in order for this to never happen again to her she must look at industry as a whole it brings negatively like that situation she was in,not saying all the people are bad guys but 1 out of 10 this will happen again or something simliar.

For every good guy there are people in the industry that could care less about there workers safety as long as they get the perfect angle.She is 19 best advice for her is to leave that kind of work and get a real job.


No disrespect to anyone of this site thats just what i feel.

Shut the fuck up Legend. Don't talk about what you don't know about.

seanchai

Actually, I apologise for snapping at you - that was uncalled for.
Please think before you write. Performing is a "proper job" - maybe not for all but for those who make that choice, they are professionals in that industry. It's hard work, taxes are paid on the earnings and we treat them as employees.

I'd prefer if this topic didn't digress, so my apologies again.
seanchai

Don't worry about you were right but is there any legal action she can take?

[TheGuard]

I regret hearing about incidents like this, Khloe came off as a genuine kind girl, she certainly didn't deserve this. I honestly hope it doesn't put her off her aspirations.

No matter the outcome I hope only that she's happy and safe in what she does.

[Buddy Wood]

I'm really tripping out about all this. From what she said it's just completely fucked up and wrong on so many levels. These guys went way over the line and she was scared for her LIFE!!! Not only did something bad happen to one of my closest friends but I got her in this business and I know who's responsible and I'd really like to punch someone in the fucking face.

As "naive" as she may be - Khloe's a smart and ambitious girl and she really was looking to go far in this industry. Somebody took advantage of that and her. Fuck man. I can't even think of everything i want to say right now.

Buddy

Buddy

[TheGuard]

Fuck turning the other cheek, I'm a fan of revenge, even if everyone has to go blind.

ok, I'm mixing metaphors now, but could we possibly start a boycott on their products? May not help Khloe's mental state, but back to the revenge thing...

also, if there's any face punching it best be videotaped Buddy.

[fhsjazztrumpet2]

Wow, what is with all this violence against girls, transsexual or otherwise? I don't understand how guys could ever want to do this, in a scene or not. Maybe I was just raised like that or something, but to read about all this violence to women in this community in just the last week is appalling.

I really hope Khloe is OK, and that she won't let this deter her ambition to be a star.

[Rory]

As a retailer, even though we would only expect to sell about 50 of any one title through Shemale-Video-Direct, I won't take this product and won't promote it.

here here.

It was really wrong for those guys to have done that to her.

[yodajazz]

I personally dont like to see videos where the girls are humiliated. They could possibly be abused by ignorant, phobic people anyway. So what's the entertainment value in seeing it in a movie? Those people who abused Khloe do not deserve our money.

[Vicki Richter]

I will say that this happened on a Vicki Richter Shemale Supersluts shoot.

I've worked for/with my cameraman multiple times and while he promotes aggressive, pushing the envelope, very rough sex, to date, he has never had a girl complain. Genetic porn girls actually line up to shoot for him because they want the challenge. The present AVN Female Performer of the Year (also Female Actor of the Year) credits him as her mentor and acknowledges him for helping her achieve Performer of the Year. They've shot the same style of scene a dozen times together. It's along the same lines as Max Hardcore, Jim Powers, or other directors of that nature.

I wasn't there so I can't say what happened outside of what I've heard, but I've been told that she never said no, stop, I don't like that, etc. Billy, the performer, asked her if she was OK throughout the scene and said she always said she was fine. He also said everything seemed OK and normal on the drive home. I've worked with Billy and I consider him professional and among the best male talent I've worked with.

When I talked to her about it in email, she said she didn't ask for them to stop because she was afraid. This is the first rule in porn, the female performer (or any performer for that matter) always can stop a scene at any time. I feel terrible because I see Khloe as a smart, stunningly beautiful girl with really unlimited upside. I have always felt that no means no and that statement never happened and it could and should have if she felt that way. My intent was never to put her or anyone in some over-the-top thing or in a situation that I wouldn't do myself. I guarantee she was never in any danger. Would I do the scene myself? Yes, I would have.

If anyone's seen my bonus scene with Danielle in my Devil's virtual DVD (different director), you will see her slapping me (hard) in the face, throat fucking me until my makeup runs, shoving my head in a toilet, spanking, dragging me by my hair, stuffing toilet water soaked panties in my mouth, tearing my cloths off and ripping them... None of that was discussed beforehand (except the head in the toilet thing). It wasn't staged and coordinated, they just asked her for a rough scene. If you watch some of Belladonna's stuff, you will see a lot of that same ultra aggressive slapping, spanking, hard toy use, etc. You don't really see it in the shemale genre, except perhaps in Transsexual Penetrator or some of Nacho's stuff. The site kink.com is doing it now too, but with boys getting it from aggressive transsexuals.

If I could change what happened, obviously I would. I would have been there and made sure that she was always comfortable, coached her, etc. I've worked with the same cameraman with Danielle and Holly and with various male talent and things have always went well during the scenes. I'll have the tape in a few days and I'll be able to see the footage at that point.

Buddy - It was not my desire at all to take advantage of Khloe and I didn't pick her because she was young and vulnerable, I picked her because she is the best looking new face in the adult industry.

V

[Legend]

So this is still going to be distributed what a load of shit,i can pictured it now two shady guys taking advantage over a girl who was completely lost this kinda stuff pisses me off,people might say that i'm not that smart but in a situation like this its a no brainer these guys are lucky that she wasn't related to me because i would get pay back by any means nessacary.

I had to really think about my post earlier it's not the industry in a whole its the one or two scumbags that have to make things tough.I seriously call for a boycott of this company and that tape.

What is the name of this company???????????

[Vicki Richter]

See above.

[Charlie Sheen]

I just simply cannot understand how someone can defend an obviously pure act of rape!
Obviously, that girl received severe damages on certain parts of her body. I mean, those
fucking "producers" are supposed to stop that shit as soon as they see such things happen,
without questioning it at all, no matter if the girl says "yes" or "no" and they never did it.
Totaly insane! One thing is to produce a "violent-look-alike" sceen without hurting anyone
involved, but to damage human body (and soul) in order to achieve that goal, that is a rape.
The girl has been raped, and i think she should definately take those morons to the court.
And it's disgusting to see some people defend those rapists just because they are a kind of
a source of an income to them. That's downright miserable, don't you think so?

[Vicki Richter]

Let me be clear point out that I am not devaluing the way Khloe feels about what happened in any way. If she feels that way, that is what matters. I've been really upset about this since I found out she didn't feel that things went well. I didn't even know until I spoke with Billy today and found out she had cancelled her scene for Wendy. I had left her a voicemail after the scene saying "Thanks so much. I heard you did incredible and the scene was awesome." I don't blame her for not calling me back since she felt this way, but I wish she had.

I also don't think it's fair to put the blame on the cameraman. He's shot literally a 500-1000 sex scenes. He's only just started to shoot TS stuff. He views TS and GG's in the same capacity and was really excited to be able to do some new, different stuff in the genre. I guess my point is that he wasn't shooting her harder because she was a TS, he was just doing what he always does. He's stopped scenes more than once and sent everyone home when girls have said "no more". He knows and respects those rules and boundaries to the extreme and top porn girls like Hillary Scott, Kelly Wells, Audry Hollander would all agree with me here about his ethics. I am sure that falls within his reasonable expectations as a director. The male talent is/was experienced as well and I am sure that is why he says he kept checking to make sure she was OK with what was happening during the filming.

Obviously I have everything to lose and nothing to gain by talent leaving a set feeling terrible about what just happened. Our genre is very small as is the community.

[Kriss]

I think the fanbase as well as producers and models should be aware of and open discussion on it. In light of recent events and complaints about violence against transsexuals, this is another area which rarely gets looked at - abuse within the adult industry.

From numerous posts I think Seanchai really respects the girls who work in porn and have to applaud his desicion to start this topic.

:shock: All I can say is


I personally dont like to see videos where the girls are humiliated.

WORD!


Go figure...

:smh :banghead'


I mean, those
fucking "producers" are supposed to stop that shit as soon as they see such things happen,without questioning it at all One thing is to produce a "violent-look-alike" sceen without hurting anyone involved, but to damage human body (and soul) in order to achieve that goal, that is a RAPE.
The girl has been raped

I tend to agree with this, I may not have seen this but bruises, cuts, genuine fear. That's not O.K. I think she has been exploited. This is fucked up. Someone got HURT and those guys are responsible for that, and apparently didn't even notice? Thats bullshit! I'm sorry but those guys need a slap. Who wants to make money exploiting young girls and promoting violent rape fantasies, no wonder TS women get disrespected when producers are happy to portray them as garbage worthy of abuse. Even sadder that TS women will perpetuate a negative, debasing image of Transexuals. If that was your production Vicki, you fucked up. Unprofessional! You should have been there!


I will be talking to some other producers and talent about the possibility of having our own closed forum for industry support.

Seem like a good idea, divided you fall.

[Jericho]

Don't know enough about the industry to make an informed comment, but it does sound like someone seriously dropped the ball and fucked up on this one.

On a personal note, i find that 'gagging' porn repulsive [just my opinion]

[Vala_TS]

Ok, that's it. I am NEVER, EVER doing porn now. Maybe amateur porn but nothing professional.

Vala,

[bassman2546]

Besides Wendy, who is doing anything to console Khloe at this time? I think we all know what happened and what went wrong and what everyone's view is, whether it's sympathize with her or 'cover my ass' comments. I'd like to know what's being done beyond a few phone calls. Someone send her flowers. Someone visit her. Show some effort to make her feel important.

And what's being done about the rapists on the set? Who's speaking with them and dealing with them. Or, will this just get swept under the rug?

[Rory]

someone seriously dropped the ball and fucked up on this one

Sounds like it. Given the extremity of this kind of scene, the guys should have been more in touch with how Khloe was doing, regardless of how well other actresses deal with it, or how many of them line up for it.

[BeardedOne]

First off, my best wishes to Khloe and sincere hopes that the only 'scar' she carries out of this is as a learning experience to apply on down the line.

Second, thanx to seanchai for the thread and the concern, not just for Khloe, but for all of the gurls in the industry. I support the idea of a professional forum where the producers and talent can interact for a better, safer environment.

Third, I applaud Vicki for stepping up and giving her views of the event. Few business people, especially in the adult entertainment industry, will come to the fore and say 'We're the people you're talking about' when controversy or scandal rears its ugly head. As a producer and a talent, she can't be expected to be present at every shoot and therefore must place a certain level of trust in the people she works with as well as the talent they are involved with every day. From her comments here I believe she is genuinely concerned for all parties involved and will investigate the matter fairly for =all= parties.

As to the distribution of the scene, that is really up to the producer. I would hope that a discussion and understanding were reached with all involved before that decision is made.

Just a curiosity: How much discussion/negotiation occurs at the start of these shoots? Vicki has told us of the extreme scene she played with Danielle, which seems to have been a made-up-as-we-go scene, but they are known to each other for some time and have a mutual comfort level to temper (Or fuel) their activities in front of the camera. When a significant percentage of these scenes are done with talent who have little or no previous interaction, what is the level of pre-shoot communication? One would certainly hope that it is more than just "Jack, Jill. Jill, Jack. We have sixty minutes of vid time. Go!"

Thanx again to all the pros adding their thoughts and opinions to this thread and my sincere best to Khloe and her future, wherever and whatever that may be.

[luv4Tgirls]

Sorry to hear about this, I hope that Khloe will be and is O.K. No one should have to indure that if they are not a willing partner. :soapbox She is a very beautiful woman, nice that her friends rallying to her side she needs that right now.

[hondarobot]

This is one messed up situation. I don't know anything about what's going on, obviously, beyond this thread, so it's not really any of my business.

Sounds to me like someone was trying to "push the boundaries, be number one, dominate and win" by having an Extreme Scene shot, and things went way too far.

I wish Khloe Hart the best, for what it's worth.

[LG]

Sad to hear what happened to Khloe. Seanchai's post really shocked me- what Khloe had to go through sounds more like rape than anything else and no performer should ever have to go through it.

But Vicki's posts had me thinking too. Maybe it just went FUBAR and spun out of anyone's control, but was it rape? I don't know. Did Khloe ever tell the male performers to stop? And if she didn't, if she was to afraid, what did they do to make her so scared in the first place? Was it a misunderstanding of sorts? Did they just go too far without actually meaning to hurt her and were they thinking that she consented to the abuse? Only the people present during that shoot can have any idea of the answers to these questions.

There are plenty of male performers in straight porn who push the envelope, like Vicki said. I'm not a fan of them, but I have seen Rocco Siffredi treat some of the girls he was screwing like shit, and, as Vicki noted in the case of Max Hardcore, girls have lined up around the block to go through that treatment. Some of his pornography features sadomasochism and degrading sex, including condom-free direct ass to mouth sex, oral gagging and some pretty hard anal. In one scene a girl looked like she was bleeding. That's when I turned it off.

So I think Khloe has been desperately unlucky because nobody should have to go through what she went through. I definitely believe she should never work with those performers again if working with them will make her uncomfortable. I think she should always make it clear before each shoot how far she can go and that she should know that it is up to her to shout "Stop!" and that if she does this then the shooting and action will actually stop.

I also wish her the best and hope that she recovers fully soon, both physically and emotionally. Our thoughts are with her.

And personally, I would like to see a new type of transexual porn, with less hardcore action and more emotional action. I think the thread on kissing in porn that appeared on these forums gives an indication that many people would like to see this too.

[Vicki Richter]

What I asked was if a girl says she's OK, is repeatedly asked if she is OK and says yes, and then never says no or stop during the scene, how is a director or male talent to know that she is uncomfortable or that a line has ben crossed? She was never threatened during the scene with terrible things if she didn't fuck like they wanted her to fuck. She wasn't crying on the set or in the car on the way home. I know that during the scene she was asked what was off limits and she said face slapping only and you will see none of that in the scene. If Khloe didn't want to do the things she did, she absolutely could and should have pulled the plug at anytime. Women rule in porn and despite what is seen on video, our word is always law on a set. My point is we have to say something in order to be heard. We have more control than a director.

The sex that Seanchai describes is not uncommon at all today in straight porn but I disagree with him that it is classified as specialty or a niche, it is the norm. Every award winning Evil Angel director has at least one line that has a significant amount of rough sex and while not all porn GG's specialize in it, 95% of them partake in it. The ones who specialize in it and enjoy it are awarded with AVN awards like Best New Starlet or Performer of the Year time and time again.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Rocco+Siffredi+slapping&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=nacho+vidal+slapping&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&xargs=0&pstart=1&fr=yfp-t-501&b=11

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=jules+jordan+slapping&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0geu_GSHvRFbQ0BF0NXNyoA?p=joey+silver a+slapping&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-501&x=wrt

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0geu6Z.JPRFXCsB77JXNyoA?p=Jim+Powers+ porn+slapping&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-501&x=wrt

This wasn't planned or masterminded as a way to take advantage of someone. The day of the scene I was out talking to Steve from Devils about casting her for the Up Close and Virtual series and I am more than happy to show my IM log to prove that. I coordinated her shoot with Joey. I was doing these things because she is so legitimately sweet and I wanted to help her, not because I wanted to abuse her on my set in some way and wanted leverage. I am very impressed with this girl. I wanted her in her best scene ever, not in something she feels bad about. Fuck she's even going to be featured in an AVN ad. None of this is or was going to hurt her career it is going to help her tremendously if she decides she wants to stay in porn. I helped Danielle Foxxx get into porn and now she's bigger than me, I see no reason Khloe can't do the same.

[hondarobot]

If it was for your video series, why weren't you on the set to make sure this sort of thing didn't happen? Given the apparent outcome, that seems like a major case of dropping the ball.

And I can't believe you're actually considering releasing the scene on video.

That's messed up.

[Charlie Sheen]

All rape victims do not cry or protest during the actual act. Simply because they are afraid
and SHOCKED. Instead of that, (and that's the irony of the whole thing) they seem to cooperate, just because of the fear they feel. Real reactions come first after all that. And that is exactly how it's described here.

Now, "producers" should have noticed and seen the injuries on her body while taking the
sequence on the camera, that's inevitable thing. But they did not react in appropriate way.

I say it in this way: those "producers" are a bunch of incompetent crazy people, and they should
AT LEAST BE FORBIDDEN to continue with what they do.

[LG]

Vicki, I can see your point and I accept what you're saying. I am sure you were trying to help her.

But somehow it seems things ended up being pretty fucked up along the way. So sad.

As for whether the scene should be released on the DVD, I would not release it, but ultimately it should be up to Khloe herself. In any case, I think apologies to Khloe are in order, (at least), from everyone involved, primarily the performers (if Khloe can face them again) becuase it was their responsibility to gauge her response to the sex and whether she was consenting or not.

[bassman2546]

Regardless of whether some women like this treatment during a scene or just tolerate it, doesn't make this situation okay. I'm amazed at how certain individuals are more concerned about covering their ass then taking responsibility for the crime committed.

[MrsKellyPierce]

That's terrible Sean Chai..does this happen a lot or no? I mean certainly not with reputable businesses, but I mean the ones that just do casting calls out of the blue??

[Kriss]

This wasn't planned or masterminded as a way to take advantage of someone. The day of the scene I was out talking to Steve from Devils about casting her for the Up Close and Virtual series and I am more than happy to show my IM log to prove that.

Vicki is being totally up front about this. This shit is wrong, yes it was her production but she seems genuinely concerned. I don't think she is trying to "cover her ass" . BUT............


And I can't believe you're actually considering releasing the scene on video. That's messed up.

I have to Agree. If she felt abused then it WAS genuine abuse so should not be released. So maybe this violent porn is popular, personally I avoid it. The producers say the girls are consenting and line up for it. These girls have emotional and psycological issues that lead them to do this rough, rape kind of porn and they are desparate to make a name in a fickle industry. That is exploitation in my view, My ex-girlfriend had rape fantasies, not healthy and this was directly due to the fact that her first sexual experiences were of rape and abuse. Should these sexual inclinations be encouraged like it's all fun and games? NO. I'm all up for sexual freedom between consenting adults but real violence and sex do NOT mix. O.K., so literally every girl that I have known quite likes the occasional spank on the ass, don't we all? but bruises, torn skin? NO, that certainly has no place in porn. Yes there is the argument that porn provides a release thus making violent psycho-rapists less dangerous, i don't think so. I think this type of imagary ferments in the mind of unstable, demented people. Read the reports, violent porn is the drug of choice for Serial rapists and sex-killers. You or I may be able to tell fantasy from reality but very many people cannot and I think that any image that promotes the degradation or abuse of women is dangerous to society and totally irresponsible. I recall a tranny hunter film featuring some mock kidnap, obviously very false but I think that shit is horrible, it's just not funny, you can't joke around with that kind of scenario. Loads of TS porn has girls dominating, slapping guys but it's always in good fun, almost comical.


The sex that Seanchai describes is not uncommon at all today in straight porn but I disagree with him that it is classified as specialty or a niche, it is the norm. The ones who specialize in it and enjoy it are awarded with AVN awards like Best New Starlet or Performer of the Year time and time again.

But it is up to you to provide the alternative and lead by example. Isn't that what TS producers are all about? Take back the power. Be a trend setter.


my bonus scene with Danielle, you will see her slapping me (hard) in the face, throat fucking me until my makeup runs, shoving my head in a toilet, spanking, dragging me by my hair, stuffing toilet water soaked panties in my mouth, tearing my cloths off and ripping them

I haven't seen this but it is different as Danielle is so totally girly, it would be slightly farcical to me and thus acceptable as i just couldn't take her seriously as a rapist. I'm just a pussy ,can't even watch a woman being slapped on CSI! In fact this whole thread makes me feel ill. I would never let a girlfreind of mine do a scene like that just in case some crazed sick nutjob(like the ones requesting V's spunk filled condoms) see it and thinks
that she likes that rough stuff and therefore will enjoy being raped. Porn stars have fans. they also have stalkers that cannot tell fantasy from reality. This porn re-inforces their sick preconceptions that girls secretly enjoy receiving violence. Porn, hollywood, music industry all need to wake up and take responsibility for society's perception of what is or is not O.K.

[Charlie Sheen]

And Khloe, listen to me, girl:

It's very important for You as an individual to go to bottom with this big issue.
Those jerks must be legaly punished for what they did to You, it's very important for
You to happen, just to be able to go further on with Your life. The worst thing that
can happen to You is not the rape itself, but if You surrender and leave this nightmare
behind You unresolved.

[specialk]

And Khloe, listen to me, girl:

It's very important for You as an individual to go to bottom with this big issue.
Those jerks must be legaly punished for what they did to You, it's very important for
You to happen, just to be able to go further on with Your life. The worst thing that
can happen to You is not the rape itself, but if You surrender and leave this nightmare
behind You unresolved.

Hondasheen.is that you??? :lol: :lol:

[Charlie Sheen]

And Khloe, listen to me, girl:

It's very important for You as an individual to go to bottom with this big issue.
Those jerks must be legaly punished for what they did to You, it's very important for
You to happen, just to be able to go further on with Your life. The worst thing that
can happen to You is not the rape itself, but if You surrender and leave this nightmare
behind You unresolved.

Hondasheen.is that you??? :lol: :lol:

LOL

No, i'm not Honda.
But Honda is a good guy too..

[Kriss]

She is telling stuff that someone told her,she wasn't there in person..........

I didn't say blameless, but she has stated her understanding of the situation and that the abuse was beyond her immediate control, the fact that she delegated control of the shoot is where V fucked up and I'm sure she severely regrets not being there. I am as appauled as you Legend, time will reveal all........

[DJ_Asia]

to me this situation is a couple asses taking advantage of a YOUNG TRANSGENDERED woman.Were she a female w/ a few years under her skirt,tis wouldnt of happened.

Ive been involved in the XXX industry for too long,and in the straight world this shit doesnt happen,at least not w/ companies with a solid reputation.Hell even Max Hardcore who's films are extremely demeaning,brutal and bordering the edge of decency treats his models w/ respect and always explains what is to happen in the shoot PRIOR to it taking place.Hes polite and Ive never seen him or heard of him doing what was done to Ms.Hart.

Ladies you always have the right to say "NO"..dont like the co-star,scenario,setting,or required activities its OKAY to say NO.

[tubgirl]

She is telling stuff that someone told her,she wasn't there in person so how in the hell could she possible say the girl was ok,this whole thing sounds like a cover up to get the "young girls who doesn't know the buisness so why not make a few bucks screw her as a human"

Just look who posted this they probably care,do you honestly think anyone else would have posted it,this story probably wouldnt have surfaced if it wasn't for seanchai.

now if klhoe told her side the story would probably say differently she probably was crying her ass off.

and you were there, so you know exactly how she was feeling? :roll:

give me a fucking break. i'm not standing up for either side, because the only info i have is the info in this thread. you, however, seem to turn a blind eye to all the information...

[DJ_Asia]

What I asked was if a girl says she's OK, is repeatedly asked if she is OK and says yes, and then never says no or stop during the scene, how is a director or male talent to know that she is uncomfortable or that a line has ben crossed? She was never threatened during the scene with terrible things if she didn't fuck like they wanted her to fuck. She wasn't crying on the set or in the car on the way home. I know that during the scene she was asked what was off limits and she said face slapping only and you will see none of that in the scene. If Khloe didn't want to do the things she did, she absolutely could and should have pulled the plug at anytime. Women rule in porn and despite what is seen on video, our word is always law on a set. My point is we have to say something in order to be heard. We have more control than a director.

The sex that Seanchai describes is not uncommon at all today in straight porn but I disagree with him that it is classified as specialty or a niche, it is the norm. Every award winning Evil Angel director has at least one line that has a significant amount of rough sex and while not all porn GG's specialize in it, 95% of them partake in it. The ones who specialize in it and enjoy it are awarded with AVN awards like Best New Starlet or Performer of the Year time and time again.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Rocco+Siffredi+slapping&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=nacho+vidal+slapping&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&xargs=0&pstart=1&fr=yfp-t-501&b=11

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=jules+jordan+slapping&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0geu_GSHvRFbQ0BF0NXNyoA?p=joey+silver a+slapping&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-501&x=wrt

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0geu6Z.JPRFXCsB77JXNyoA?p=Jim+Powers+ porn+slapping&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-501&x=wrt

This wasn't planned or masterminded as a way to take advantage of someone. The day of the scene I was out talking to Steve from Devils about casting her for the Up Close and Virtual series and I am more than happy to show my IM log to prove that. I coordinated her shoot with Joey. I was doing these things because she is so legitimately sweet and I wanted to help her, not because I wanted to abuse her on my set in some way and wanted leverage. I am very impressed with this girl. I wanted her in her best scene ever, not in something she feels bad about. Fuck she's even going to be featured in an AVN ad. None of this is or was going to hurt her career it is going to help her tremendously if she decides she wants to stay in porn. I helped Danielle Foxxx get into porn and now she's bigger than me, I see no reason Khloe can't do the same.

vicki,

you and I used to chat online many years ago prior to your F/T transition,and i recall a girl with a very different attitude and demeanor than what you are now.Do you not recall being young,naive,intimidated by girls you looked up to,and hoped one day to emulate??

The girl was scared if she said "STOP" that it would cost her work and her rep would be tainted for life,and certainly not in any small dose wanted to impress.

[GroobySteven]

Ok I don't think throwing the stones at Vicki is really productive here. She wasn't on set and probably made a bad judgement call on either not being there or not ensuring that the model was fully prepared for the scene. I'm sure that this has been a big learning experience for her.

The director/male performer were trying to push the boundaries for TS porn, I've seen their resumes and the director has a lot of experience, if abusing models ws part of his modus operandi than it's unlikely he'd still be working. If his only experience with TS's is working with Vicki and/or Danielle, then he probably needs education on the fact that not all TS's are the same and they're as varied as GG's. Not every model is the same and certainly not every model who is fresh into the industry and doesn't know what to expect. While performers like Vicki and Danielle might be used to this sort of scene, it's probably came from experience. Vicki, you mentioned a scene which developed between you and Danielle - but you were both friends and you knew people on the set which is different from if you were 19 and walking into a room with two older guys and a camera. She seemed to think it was going to be a pretty straight forward sex style scene - and was going to be paid accordingly - not something which was so extreme and if not only discussed, she should have been shown some similar scenes so she could make her own mind up.

Those of you calling for legal action and rape charges have a point but the legal entaglements and issues there are massive. As far as I am aware, it's not going to go in that direction so you may as well stop that line of posting. Khloe seems to be ok and through talking to her yesterday seems to be handling it all fairly pragmatically and maturally.

The model did take the pay and sign the releases and legally the producers are entitled to use that scene. These productions run on a very small budget to profit (I've posted on this before - it can take a year to break even) and it's their choice to release the scene - just as it's my choice as retailer, knowing something personally, not to promote this DVD. However, I'm sure we have DVD's in our inventory which may have similar scenes where models have fely aggrieved about the shoot.

I think the best thing that can now come of this is for the reputable producers to get some sort of forum and dialogue open where potential models can read and add views. This is an exciting time in the industry with former TS models/performers producing their own material as Joanna Jet has been doing for a while - but those same producers, Joanna, Wendy Williams, Allanah, Gia & Vicki (alongside with the non-TS producers) should also have the obligations to making sure that new talent is somewhat protected and nurtured. The non-TS industry seems to have areas like this, so it's time the TS one did also.

seanchai

[Vicki Richter]

DJ Asia - I see what you are saying and yes there was a time where I was more idealistic about what porn is about. I can only say that the cameraman is as experienced as Max and they are very close friends off camera. When I said 1,000 scenes, I wasn't exaggerating. He's shot Brianna Banks, Tara Patrick and tons of other top adult performers. He is not a novice director.

I can't count the number of scenes (or photo shoots) I have shot where a director has taken his dick out and stuck it in my mouth or took liberties sucking my cock because he's hired me for a scene. I've had my ass fucked by directors who hired me for a scene (without them in it). That's fine, it is a part of the business that I found out very quickly. Is that rape because I didn't tell them no, even when I wasn't into it or wanting it?

I've had my ass bleed because I've taken too big of dicks from my male talent or have had metal piercings on a cock stuck in my ass to where blood is heavily pouring out on a set. Like Khloe, I still finished the scene, and I still collected money and signed a model release.

My director would never in a million years take his dick out on set or put a girls thing in his mouth or sexually take advantage of a girl. That is why I trust him. He is shooting to get the best scene possible, and the most out of a girl, not to get laid. I'm fucking furious that some people here are using the R word for this.

[suckseed]

I think everyone has had a somewhat valid viewpoint on this. I like seanchai's last post regarding Vicki, and agree with that.

You know how I feel about you Vicki. I consider you a great online friend.
If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but...why the hell would you let someone make your ass bleed? Isn't it possible that there's a tendency to seek out ever-bigger thrills sexually? How would that end up if it were drugs?

I mentioned this once before, but I once saw an episode of 'Meatholes' where the girl literally started crying, the two guys viciously fucking and humiliating her ask her what she's thinking, and she says, "You're saying all these things to me and you don't even know me," and "I'm thinking about what I'm doing with my life." I felt ashamed that I was even watching it. (It was a video arcade.) It was not acting. She was the most pitiful porn performer I've ever seen. I think her name was Riley.
There's a difference between saying "Ohh, you're a dirty slut" in bed and "You're a fucking stupid whore. Say hi to your parents, you stupid cunt." That not only shows a profound hatred of women and oneself, more importantly, it legitimizes it to the public. And let's not give the common folk too much credit for brains.

But what the hell do I know. I just hate to think of anyone hurting a woman just because they can.

[LG]

DJ Asia - I see what you are saying and yes there was a time where I was more idealistic about what porn is about. I can only say that the cameraman is as experienced as Max and they are very close friends off camera. When I said 1,000 scenes, I wasn't exaggerating. He's shot Brianna Banks, Tara Patrick and tons of other top adult performers. He is not a novice director.

I can't count the number of scenes (or photo shoots) I have shot where a director has taken his dick out and stuck it in my mouth or took liberties sucking my cock because he's hired me for a scene. I've had my ass fucked by directors who hired me for a scene (without them in it). That's fine, it is a part of the business that I found out very quickly. Is that rape because I didn't tell them no, even when I wasn't into it or wanting it?

I've had my ass bleed because I've taken too big of dicks from my male talent or have had metal piercings on a cock stuck in my ass to where blood is heavily pouring out on a set. Like Khloe, I still finished the scene, and I still collected money and signed a model release.

My director would never in a million years take his dick out on set or put a girls thing in his mouth or sexually take advantage of a girl. That is why I trust him. He is shooting to get the best scene possible, and the most out of a girl, not to get laid. I'm fucking furious that some people here are using the R word for this.

Vicki,

From what you're saying, it just sounds like Khloe just didn't know what she was getting into. I obviously don't know what happened, but if she was asked if it was okay and said it was and if she also didn't say "no" or "stop" at any time then I agree that it's not 'legally' classified as rape.

But if she is so upset, you must agree that someone fucked up along the way. I don't know what happened but something went wrong. Maybe Khloe was, as DJAsia suggested, too scared to say "Stop", but I don't know that, and if she didn't say the word then it would be up to the cameraman and performer to guage her feelings, which is not easy.

And if she signed the model release forms, as seanchai says, then she consented both to the action that took place, as I understand, and to the footage to be released. Ergo, no use talking about rape.

But, from what you say, there are plenty of sick fucks in the industry. I accept that the people you work with may be responsible, but if Khloe was upset about what happened then porn may not be the right job for her, becuase it sounds like things can get even worse for her. If she does decide to stay in the business, it is up to girls like you, Vicki, to educate her and fast, on what she may be expected to face. It sounds like her naivety, as much as anything, led to her going through the kind of experience that no girl should have to face. I hope she can recover soon.

I like some of the ideas posted on here. I think more cooperation and information sharing is neccessary and I agree that it is good that the girls, by becoming producers, can protect each other and choose how the industry can be molded. The industry should always be here to protect all of those involved, especially those who are just starting out, not just to entertain those who pay the way.

Just an outsider's thoughts.

[Alison Faraday]

To maybe bring a conclusion to this thread.

When you start out, you're eager to please. And it's afterwards that you think about what you did or did not feel. Khloe is young. And at 19 she has many other opportunities open to her. Things which could be much more predictable, much more acceptable to family, and things that could be better.

The adult industry is like this. It's a shit yes. You're not really given a learning curve so to speak. You can either do it, or you can't. Not a huge amount more comes into it.

What can I say? I've had shoots that I've hated doing. And in the same genre as here, where I haven't been warned, and it's just carried on. You carry on, as while the camera is rolling there's an atmosphere. I've well and truly messed up shoots before and rubbished potential contacts because I let my personal feelings get involved.

This is just the nature of the business. When you break, and something gets said, if it continues then it's an issue. But if you don't say something then there's not alot to debate about.

As for this rape being thrown about. OK, nothing was said. So we then consider the date-rape scenario. Where the woman has sex anyway then regrets it later. We're not talking about going out for a drink and taking a guy home who reads the wrong signals. We're talking about a professional adult photo shoot. So on that basis, the R word is irrelevant.

It's been an experience for Khloe. That's it. Just because she's 19 it doesn't change anything. I would hope and think that all of this will make her that little bit less naive. It has had that affect on me, where I'm more able to judge who is professional and who isn't. Those that have attitude problems, those that can't communicate, I simply avoid them. I'm never rude, but I just leave them to it. My limited experience has taught me that.

She's fine, really. She's not some frightened deer peeking from behind the curtains every time a car drives past. What she will have gained is respect, as she clearly isn't some aloof hardened bitch with a chip on her shoulder.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

OK-

STOP-

While this scene is something that went very wrong, and the model had a very bad experience, it is NOT a rape.

Was she being held agaisnt her will? Was she being theatened or threatened with a weapon? Was she tied up, was she restrained? Was she being FORCED to do what she did. Was she there agasint her will?
No.

Did she get up and leave, or protest, or ask to the scene to stop? From what is sounds like probably not.

From vast experiences on many sets, a porn scene is not filmed in the 20 minutes you see on screen. It takes several hours. There are always breaks in between to shoot stills, or to get ready, or to just take a break.
During those breaks, you are usually asked if you are ok-need something, etc. I don't see how this production could have been any different.

I can't imagine someone being so uncomfortable with a scene-and not asking to stop.

Maybe it was the model being naive-or just inexperienced, or what have you. BUT- if you feel umcomfortable with ANYTHING in a scene you should tell the director RIGHT AWAY. It's better to be fired, or quit then to end up not speaking up and have an experience like this.

The two people involved in the scene, along with Vicki, have reputable reputations. I almost worked with Billy when I was in LA for Devils but got a cold and had to cancel the shoot- but from what I understand he has worked with a lot of the girls. I doubt that they knew how uncomfortsble she was, because she did not speak up.

It is common practice-and this is WITH every director I have worked for- that they do a run through of the scene what they want you to do, and then they ask you if you agree. I do not see how they could not have done a run through-taken breaks- or asked her if she was ok.

I think this whole situation is a complete misunderstanding.
Between the model being afraid to speak up-to the crew thinking that she was ok.

I understannd how this could be so traumatizing for the model- but it is a lesson that if you are ever, ever feel the slightest discomfort with something you are asked to do in a scene to say NO-otherwise everyone will assume that you are OK.

And I am gonna blow the lid of another can of worms here. Many reputable producers and photographers often times expect some sort of sexual favor during the shoot. They want to get laid, or suck you off, or touch you. Some can't keep their hands to themselves. I am not going to mention any names or devulge that information-but it has only been a handful of MEN I have worked with that have not. I know that sometimes the girls are forward, and asked to be fluffed and such. BUT STILL- it is very irritating when someone expects that. Furthermore, it feels worse when you think you have to do it-to get a better standing or to help your career.

This happened to me several times until I learned that that is NOT part of the job. That you can say no to sexual advances-and tell the director to keep his hands to himself.

So people will take advantange of you in many situations- it is really up to you to stand your ground.

I do hope she can recover from this situation and continue working on her career and really learn fromt this experience and her right to SAY NO.

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

bottomline we are all boycotting this film, correct?

I can't speak for anyone else but this isn't something I'd want to see

personally I recall this GG stripper I use to get lapdances from doing a scene with these guys down south and she gagged so much that she vomitted and they never edited that shit out, they thought it was a hot scene piece, I was disgusted

kept watching though to see how far they'd go

I remember at the end of the scene the stripper said (and again they didn't edit the shit out) "you guys got off cheap..............."

[wendy48088]

* Deleted *

[bob85]

i know i will be boycotting it!!

[Buddy Wood]

Some of you are making some great points but it doesn't change the fact that she was spat on, choked and bruised. We're not talking about the director copping a feel here. It's not the evil industry's fault - individuals took advantage of her. I doen't have to be that way. I shot hardcore gay porn for years - pissing, fisting, jailroom scenarios - never once did I feel like someone was being taken advantage of because it was all talked about and agreed upon BEFORE the cameras started rolling.

Yes Khloe was VERY eager to please her producer(s) and probably let it go too far. I've only talked to her on the phone and I don't want to talk to her about it anymore til she gets back to San Diego but there are a lot of questions about how and why it went that far.

I had no idea Vicki was into that stuff and I guarantee Khloe didn't either. The last time I talked to Khloe before this she was very excited to do a shoot with Vicki and Christian - a guy I've worked with. If I had known it was going to be no Christian or Vicki I certainly would have told her to blow it off. No it's not rape and I'm sure those guys are really great people with fantastic porn resumes but something went very wrong and I'll find out when I see her.

Buddy

[Buddy Wood]

I think Wendy48088 may have nailed that right on the head there. Abuse the tranny because she turns you on. Wow!! How hot.

[AllanahStarrNYC]

Here on the Hung Angels General Discussion forum we have a sticky thread up at the top General Discussion about Miriam recovering in the hospital after being thrown from the 4th floor of a building, and apparently we have people making videos of T-girls being subjected to aggressive, pushing the envelope, very rough sex...

Am I the only one who sees an irony here? I mean, if I am wrong, could someone please sell me a clue?

It seems to me that the only people (well, horney guys) who would want to see this sort of stuff are conflicted about their own sexuality, and want to see the object of their desires punished for arousing them.

While I have no doubt the director, camerama, male talent, actress(es) etc. making these scenes are all professionals and know what they are doing, the thing I am confused about concerns the old saying about "Two identical dogs are in a fight. Which one wins?" Well, the answer is "The one you feed." So is feeding the market for this sort of stuff really a good idea?


With all due respect-

How is a brutal attack compared to a conseted sexual depiction?

[Vicki Richter]

bottomline we are all boycotting this film, correct?

I can't speak for anyone else but this isn't something I'd want to see

personally I recall this GG stripper I use to get lapdances from doing a scene with these guys down south and she gagged so much that she vomitted and they never edited that shit out, they thought it was a hot scene piece, I was disgusted

kept watching though to see how far they'd go

I remember at the end of the scene the stripper said (and again they didn't edit the shit out) "you guys got off cheap..............."

http://www.gagfactor.com/

[AllanahStarrNYC]

Some of you are making some great points but it doesn't change the fact that she was spat on, choked and bruised. We're not talking about the director copping a feel here. It's not the evil industry's fault - individuals took advantage of her. I doen't have to be that way. I shot hardcore gay porn for years - pissing, fisting, jailroom scenarios - never once did I feel like someone was being taken advantage of because it was all talked about and agreed upon BEFORE the cameras started rolling.

Yes Khloe was VERY eager to please her producer(s) and probably let it go too far. I've only talked to her on the phone and I don't want to talk to her about it anymore til she gets back to San Diego but there are a lot of questions about how and why it went that far.

I had no idea Vicki was into that stuff and I guarantee Khloe didn't either. The last time I talked to Khloe before this she was very excited to do a shoot with Vicki and Christian - a guy I've worked with. If I had known it was going to be no Christian or Vicki I certainly would have told her to blow it off. No it's not rape and I'm sure those guys are really great people with fantastic porn resumes but something went very wrong and I'll find out when I see her.

Buddy


Buddy-

I just dont understand HOW anyone who is uncomfortable would let it go so far.

If someone spit on me or choked me in a scene without asking me to do it first, I would throw a fit and tell then that WAS NOT OK.

I still don't see how none of this would have been discussed prior. You just dont choke someone in a scene without telling them.

It's not a snuff film for God sakes.

And for the record I am very offended when a director tries to cop a feel. I am very offended when anyone touches me that I do not give permission to- so please do not down play that.

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

look it's not rape
it was something that went to far
fake eyelashes ripped off comment made me cringe
that's not something I'd want to see in any scene in any type of movie, porn, sci-fi, horror, etc............

if anything this thread and the sticky with Miriam brings to light something rarely discussed on here, the abuse towards women in the life, hopefully this helped someone considering doing a film in the future

[Buddy Wood]

Wow Allanah. I didn't know you had so much inside information. So Khloe did consent to all this before hand?? I forgot now that she called me to say how excited she was to be choked til she thought she was passing out.

Why the fuck are you sticking up for these guys and what happened. That's kind of pissing me off a little and I'm not one to vent my anger online but I got nowhere else right now. I have no idea why Miriam was thrown form a window - but you don't see a correlation between violence towards t-girls in the real world and guys that might get off on seeing it to a degree in a video?? Seems kind of obvious. Way to feed the fire. Whatever. I'm pissed think what you want.

Buddy

[wendy48088]

* Deleted *

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

bottomline we are all boycotting this film, correct?

I can't speak for anyone else but this isn't something I'd want to see

personally I recall this GG stripper I use to get lapdances from doing a scene with these guys down south and she gagged so much that she vomitted and they never edited that shit out, they thought it was a hot scene piece, I was disgusted

kept watching though to see how far they'd go

I remember at the end of the scene the stripper said (and again they didn't edit the shit out) "you guys got off cheap..............."

http://www.gagfactor.com/

actually you were close but no that wasn't the site she was on
pm me I'll tell ya

[AllanahStarrNYC]

Wow Allanah. I didn't know you had so much inside information. So Khloe did consent to all this before hand?? I forgot now that she called me to say how excited she was to be choked til she thought she was passing out.

Why the fuck are you sticking up for these guys and what happened. That's kind of pissing me off a little and I'm not one to vent my anger online but I got nowhere else right now. I have no idea why Miriam was thrown form a window - but you don't see a correlation between violence towards t-girls in the real world and guys that might get off on seeing it to a degree in a video?? Seems kind of obvious. Way to feed the fire. Whatever. I'm pissed think what you want.

Buddy

I did not say I had inside information.

If you would have read what I said CORRECTLY- I wrote that I did not understand how that could be. I am not defending the guys, nor anyone.
Where did you gather that.

As well- I am going from what was posted by Seanchai and Vicki anf their accounts on both ends with her and the others involved- as per Vicki.

I am not feeding the fire- I am stating my opinion. I am not down playing wha happened. I fell bad that she had a very bad experience.

AND

NO BUDDY- I don't think that violent porn breeds violence towards women. Nor do I think Marylin Manson caused the Columbine massacre, nor do I think that violence portrayed in films, tv, or art, makes people act violently. And I am quite shocked to read that from you- as you are int he porn business and there is a movement in this country that thinks that ALL pornography causes vioilence thowards women and should be banned. Do you agree with that as well?

If you argue that- then what about S&M videos of women severely dominating men. Does that cause more violence towards men?

That is a flawed argument- anyway you play it.

If you are angry at me- that is not my problem as I am not trying to make you angry. I am simply stating my opinion.

[Buddy Wood]

Ok. Allanah I wasn't saying you personally were feeding any fires so relax but I do think jacking off to someone being abused - whether it be consentual or not - is a little weird. How about that? Can I get away with weird? And yeah this is coming from a guy that makes porn. S&M is very staged and different - as this should have been if it was going to go that route. Hey I love violent movies but they don't get me hard. And I personally don't like it in my sex or in my porn. Jeez. I mean I know the girl and talked to her and I feel like I'm making less assumptions about what happened.

And yeah I don'd understand how it all could have happened either - that's why I'm not gonna make to many more assumptions until I've talked to her in person. But it sounded really bad. I shouldn't talk about this now- I do get too mad even as I'm typing. Sorry Allanah if i vented on you a bit there but...I do think that watching a girl get legitimately abused is odd. And I love this girl and I know this wasn't all consentual so...

Buddy

[AllanahStarrNYC]

With all due respect-

How is a brutal attack compared to a conseted sexual depiction?


Because film / movies are a powerful medium.

I am thinking of something along the lines of the Nazi propaganda film "The Eternal Jew" that was used to demonize the Jews at the beginning of the Holocaust ...

From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eternal_Jew_(film)

Also because actions and words mean things.

Why are people concerned about things like the rhetorics of religious violence and Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist Church and his "God Hates Fags" demonstrations and speeches and web site, if there was no concern that people (even a minority of unstable people) would take the message they got from watching or hearing or reading and act on it in a violent manner towards the people being depicted of being worthy of receiving such violence?

I don't agree with you. I do not think film, nor art, nor music, nor a performance makes anyone act out violently.

As well, as disgusting as the things that Fred Phelps says, or skin heads, or the KKK- they do have a right to say it.

[Legend]

She is telling stuff that someone told her,she wasn't there in person so how in the hell could she possible say the girl was ok,this whole thing sounds like a cover up to get the "young girls who doesn't know the buisness so why not make a few bucks screw her as a human"

Just look who posted this they probably care,do you honestly think anyone else would have posted it,this story probably wouldnt have surfaced if it wasn't for seanchai.

now if klhoe told her side the story would probably say differently she probably was crying her ass off.

and you were there, so you know exactly how she was feeling? :roll:

give me a fucking break. i'm not standing up for either side, because the only info i have is the info in this thread. you, however, seem to turn a blind eye to all the information...

I am going by the information seanchai posted his seems really bothered by this and spoken to her personally,any idiot with a fucking brain can add up what happened here,only information i will take in is from person who has nothing to gain anything financially here and not beleiving any flip flop shit to cover what happened here .

"i'm not standing up for either side" don't make me laugh "tubgirl" please don't feed me that bs i know actually where your coming from.

[tubgirl]

She is telling stuff that someone told her,she wasn't there in person so how in the hell could she possible say the girl was ok,this whole thing sounds like a cover up to get the "young girls who doesn't know the buisness so why not make a few bucks screw her as a human"

Just look who posted this they probably care,do you honestly think anyone else would have posted it,this story probably wouldnt have surfaced if it wasn't for seanchai.

now if klhoe told her side the story would probably say differently she probably was crying her ass off.

and you were there, so you know exactly how she was feeling? :roll:

give me a fucking break. i'm not standing up for either side, because the only info i have is the info in this thread. you, however, seem to turn a blind eye to all the information...

I am going by the information seanchai posted his seems really bothered by this and spoken to her personally,any idiot with a fucking brain can add up what happened here,only information i will take in is from person who has nothing to gain anything financially here and not beleiving any flip flop shit to cover what happened here .

"i'm not standing up for either side" don't make me laugh "tubgirl" please don't feed me that bs i know actually where your coming from.

you know where i'm coming from, huh? that's great. why don't you tell me and enlighten us all?

no matter what your reasoning is for your decision, you are basing everything on heresay. i don't think seanchai is lying, never did. however, i don't think vicki is either. you have always been quick to pick up a cause...

[Legend]

She is telling stuff that someone told her,she wasn't there in person so how in the hell could she possible say the girl was ok,this whole thing sounds like a cover up to get the "young girls who doesn't know the buisness so why not make a few bucks screw her as a human"

Just look who posted this they probably care,do you honestly think anyone else would have posted it,this story probably wouldnt have surfaced if it wasn't for seanchai.

now if klhoe told her side the story would probably say differently she probably was crying her ass off.

and you were there, so you know exactly how she was feeling? :roll:

give me a fucking break. i'm not standing up for either side, because the only info i have is the info in this thread. you, however, seem to turn a blind eye to all the information...

I am going by the information seanchai posted his seems really bothered by this and spoken to her personally,any idiot with a fucking brain can add up what happened here,only information i will take in is from person who has nothing to gain anything financially here and not beleiving any flip flop shit to cover what happened here .

"i'm not standing up for either side" don't make me laugh "tubgirl" please don't feed me that bs i know actually where your coming from.

you know where i'm coming from, huh? that's great. why don't you tell me and enlighten us all?

no matter what your reasoning is for your decision, you are basing everything on heresay. i don't think seanchai is lying, never did. however, i don't think vicki is either. you have always been quick to pick up a cause...

LOL just like a weasel to think both parties aren't lying be a fucking man for a change and draw your own conclusion from parties who don't have and will make a gain by the disgusting shit.

I don't give a shit who anybody is,i see what is posted and a draw my own conclusion.

[GroobySteven]

Legend and Tubgirl - take your arguments elsewhere please.

Neither Vicki or my statements contradict each other - and neither of us has accused each other of lying, so I'm not sure why conclusions are being drawn that we're in an argument over this?

seanchai

[tubgirl]

Legend and Tubgirl - take your arguments elsewhere please.

Neither Vicki or my statements contradict each other - and neither of us has accused each other of lying, so I'm not sure why conclusions are being drawn that we're in an argument over this?

seanchai

my apologies, seanchai

[GroobySteven]

I've just been informed of something which I printed in genuine error and it's 100% my mistake. Khloe is actually 25 and not 19.

I don't think this should make any difference to the situation but I do think that stating she was 19 could be seen to make the situation worse and it was not meant to sensationalise this. As it is Khloe has only done limited shoots and doesn't escort (that I know of).

I don't think it's much of a secret that adult sites use different ages for the girls sometimes (shit - often their name, age, location and ethnicity can all be false) and I didn't have the dilligenece to check her id to get her true age but went from our editorial which was forwarded by Buddy.

My apologies, I wasn't trying to decieve anyone and thanks to Vicki for reminding me of this instead of using the information to potentially embarress me on this website.

As I've stated, the situation is the same whether the model is 19 or 90 - and I don't think it makes a difference to the cause and effect in this case but it could be inferred by some, that a 25 yr old should be more experienced than a 19 yr old.

Thanks
seanchai

[LG]

Legend and Tubgirl - take your arguments elsewhere please.

Neither Vicki or my statements contradict each other - and neither of us has accused each other of lying, so I'm not sure why conclusions are being drawn that we're in an argument over this?

seanchai

I'll agree there. I don't know seanchai, Vicki or Allanah in any other capacity than through these forums but, having read so many of their posts through the two years I've been here, I have enormous respect for all three, and I think they already know this. I don't think any of them would lie. But I do agree that what may have started off as a misunderstanding became a totally fucked up situation for poor Khloe.

I thing the main points I personally can draw here are:

1. What happened was shit. It went too far and Khloe was treated badly.

2. Khloe was not prepared for what was going to happen. Perhaps this is because no one explained to her. Maybe it's becuase she's new to the industry. Maybe porn just isn't for her. From what I gather from Alison's comments, some girls just cannot do it. I can understand that.

3. Doing porn is difficult. Sometimes producers and/or performers can treat a girl like shit. Maybe the guys Khloe was with were professionals, but from Vicki and Allanah's comments I can sense that sometimes these things- and worse- can happen. Again, not every girl is cut out for this. Some learn to be more assertive and put the early events down to experience, but others- maybe- will be scarred for life.

4. There is no suggestionthat it was not consentual in the legal sense, although, while it was happenning I can only imagine what thoughts were going through that poor girl's head. This is porn after all, and the girls have to sign forms and everything. Khloe was asked- several times, according to Vicki- whether she was okay and she said yes. Maybe she was trying hard to please her performer and agreed to things she didn't like, or maybe she was too afraid to speak up becuase of what she thought the repercussions might be. But, even if she feels like she was raped, legally speaking it was not rape in any sense of the word. End of story.

5. Should the performers or cameraman have stopped the scene? Could they have sensed what Khloe was feeling? I don't know. That is up to them to think about.

6. Vicki has every right to release the scene if all the models signed the forms. I would hope that she doesn't, but it is her choice as producer.

7. A girl being in pain and bleeding on camera is fucked up, in my opinion. Some people might pay to watch this kind of humilation and most girls seem to have to suffer through it at least once. It is kind of like a mainstream actress having to bare her breasts at least one before she can be taken seriously- every actress has done it, even the Oscar winners. It shouldn't be the case, but it is.

8. Bitching at each other on these pages will not help. All we can do is wish Khloe our best and, also, work in our own way, towards improving the industry and making conditions better for the girls. The producers, talent and all of us who pay for the DVDs can make a difference by making the right choices.

[GroobySteven]

7. A girl being in pain and bleeding on camera is fucked up, in my opinion. Some people might pay to watch this kind of humilation and most girls seem to have to suffer through it at least once. It is kind of like a mainstream actress having to bare her breasts at least one before she can be taken seriously- every actress has done it, even the Oscar winners. It shouldn't be the case, but it is.


There was no bleeding on camera as far as I m aware.

seanchai

[BrendaQG]

:|
I have never been in porno. I am ignorant to many specific things about it. So pardon me if I make some wrong assumption.

Well What Vicki says about her not speaking up makes some sense. The guys aren't psychic how could they know she did not consent to what was happening. Especially considering that in their minds it was what she signed up for.

:-/
On the other hand I was raped once. This I do know something about. There was nothing to give this guy any hint that I would consent to his actions. Not the location we were in or any action of mine. Regardless I said nothing to the autorities about this. I was afraid from the begining that it would just be said that "I liked it", that "perverts" like me always like it anyway it comes etc. I would be made out to be the villain who tempted a straight boy to screw me. To be honest he specifically did not do anything to impart that fear. I just knew how people were about girls who got raped and I knew that people like me had to be treated worse. So I said nothing....but I was still raped none the less. I am certain I know just how this girl feels. It is a terrible feeling. I got over it a long time ago but I will never forget. :|

@ Wendy

You may have a point. The two things you mentioned. Plus did you hear about Jimmy Kimmel and his comment about "hitting a transsexual with an axe upon finding out she is TS" (http://www.southernvoice.com/2007/3-9/view/actionalert/6608.cfm) and such. I thought he as cool. He had made some jokes in the past but nothing like that. :-? It seems that it is ok to many to just victimize us at will.

[LG]

7. A girl being in pain and bleeding on camera is fucked up, in my opinion. Some people might pay to watch this kind of humilation and most girls seem to have to suffer through it at least once. It is kind of like a mainstream actress having to bare her breasts at least one before she can be taken seriously- every actress has done it, even the Oscar winners. It shouldn't be the case, but it is.


There was no bleeding on camera as far as I m aware.

seanchai

Okay. I didn't say there was actually. In this case, I'm speaking more generally . It's been known to happen in mainstream porn. And from what Vicki tells us, it happens in TS porn, although the blood probably is never shown on the actual DVD.

In any case, from what you tell us, she must have been in pain.

My point here is that- to me at least- it's not right. I don't like videos with degradation. A little slap and tickle yes, but I saw a Rocco Siffredi video which showed blood once and that was a real turn off to say the least. I could never understand why girls would want to work with the guy after that. I just thought "He's a fucking asshole!"

Anyway, I've tried to summarise how I see the whole debate.

[LG]

:|
I have never been in porno. I am ignorant to many specific things about it. So pardon me if I make some wrong assumption.

Well What Vicki says about her not speaking up makes some sense. The guys aren't psychic how could they know she did not consent to what was happening. Especially considering that in their minds it was what she signed up for.

:-/
On the other hand I was raped once. This I do know something about. There was nothing to give this guy any hint that I would consent to his actions. Not the location we were in or any action of mine. Regardless I said nothing to the autorities about this. I was afraid from the begining that it would just be said that "I liked it", that "perverts" like me always like it anyway it comes etc. I would be made out to be the villain who tempted a straight boy to screw me. To be honest he specifically did not do anything to impart that fear. I just knew how people were about girls who got raped and I knew that people like me had to be treated worse. So I said nothing....but I was still raped none the less. I am certain I know just how this girl feels. It is a terrible feeling. I got over it a long time ago but I will never forget. :|

.

I'm sorry to hear all this Brenda. It sounds like you had a really bad experience. I know nothing I say can really help apart from saying I was sorry to read this and am glad you were strong enough to recover from it.

That said, I think the situation with Khloe was different. She was shooting a porn scene. She signed forms. That implies consent. She was desperately unlucky and maybe should have spoken up but, even if she felt like she was being raped, it seems she did nothing to stop it. So sad that a misunderstanding like this can end up in such a bad situation. I can only wish her the best.

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

:popcorn

[BrendaQG]

I'm sorry to hear all this Brenda. It sounds like you had a really bad experience. I know nothing I say can really help apart from saying I was sorry to read this and am glad you were strong enough to recover from it.

That said, I think the situation with Khloe was different. She was shooting a porn scene. She signed forms. That implies consent. She was desperately unlucky and maybe should have spoken up but, even if she felt like she was being raped, it seems she did nothing to stop it. So sad that a misunderstanding like this can end up in such a bad situation. I can only wish her the best.

Well I know. I know she signed forms and all that. You are 100% correct. However the consent given would only be for precisely what it says on that form. Surely it is very specific about what is being consented to in some detail (again I no nothing of the industry :shrug). If the forms used aren't like that then they should be. If nothing else it would protect producers and performers from this sort of situation.

It is a womans prerogative to change her mind. Regardless of any consent forms that is true. But she has to say something.

If she really feels wronged she should compalin to the authorities for what their worth. Just see where that leads.

[TheGuard]

:|
I have never been in porno. I am ignorant to many specific things about it. So pardon me if I make some wrong assumption.

Well What Vicki says about her not speaking up makes some sense. The guys aren't psychic how could they know she did not consent to what was happening. Especially considering that in their minds it was what she signed up for.

:-/
On the other hand I was raped once. This I do know something about. There was nothing to give this guy any hint that I would consent to his actions. Not the location we were in or any action of mine. Regardless I said nothing to the autorities about this. I was afraid from the begining that it would just be said that "I liked it", that "perverts" like me always like it anyway it comes etc. I would be made out to be the villain who tempted a straight boy to screw me. To be honest he specifically did not do anything to impart that fear. I just knew how people were about girls who got raped and I knew that people like me had to be treated worse. So I said nothing....but I was still raped none the less. I am certain I know just how this girl feels. It is a terrible feeling. I got over it a long time ago but I will never forget. :|

.

I'm sorry to hear all this Brenda. It sounds like you had a really bad experience. I know nothing I say can really help apart from saying I was sorry to read this and am glad you were strong enough to recover from it.

That said, I think the situation with Khloe was different. She was shooting a porn scene. She signed forms. That implies consent. She was desperately unlucky and maybe should have spoken up but, even if she felt like she was being raped, it seems she did nothing to stop it. So sad that a misunderstanding like this can end up in such a bad situation. I can only wish her the best.

Not speaking about this situation in particular but just generally, if someone wants to stop intercourse they can at any time. Consent can be withdrawn, and it's still considered rape even if the person doesn't neccesarily verbalize their want to stop, body language is supposed to be read. Now I understand that's idealistic, but it's the law, at least where I am.

As to the incident, people shouldn't be jumping down Vicki's throat. She wasn't there, and to me she has shown it isn't in her character to knowingly lead a girl into a situation like this, I'm sure there's a certain amount of remorse there. It's an unfortunate situation, there are a lot of emotions, but blindly accusing someone isn't going to make the situation any better. Blind men ignorantly casting stones.

I think it's best to merely offer Khloe our sympathies and our ears, not literally because I use mine from time to time and it would make a really creepy gift, but you get the gist.

[Ecstatic]

I'm sorry to hear about this incident, on all counts. It really does sound like a case of complete miscommunication and misunderstanding between the parties involved, and several people have commented quite cogently on this. There's little I can add to the discussion specific to this event, other than to hope that Khloe is ok and is able to grow from her experience and make the decisions that are right for her in the future, and that the producers pay closer heed to the talent's reactions and comfort level.

Allanah, you raise a more general but quite valid point:

[quote="AllanahStarrNYC"]And I am gonna blow the lid of another can of worms here. Many reputable producers and photographers often times expect some sort of sexual favor during the shoot. They want to get laid, or suck you off, or touch you. Some can't keep their hands to themselves. I am not going to mention any names or devulge that information-but it has only been a handful of MEN I have worked with that have not. I know that sometimes the girls are forward, and asked to be fluffed and such. BUT STILL- it is very irritating when someone expects that. Furthermore, it feels worse when you think you have to do it-to get a better standing or to help your career.

This happened to me several times until I learned that that is NOT part of the job. That you can say no to sexual advances-and tell the director to keep his hands to himself.
[quote]
Now I'm a complete novice in this august company, having only shot a handful of models, some for Shemale Yum and some privately or for their own website or marketing use. In all cases, I've striven to be sensitive to my subject's needs and would never presume to touch her or approach her in a sexual manner. I take my lead totally from the model: if she explicitly indicates that she wants to be fluffed, or if she wants to have fun after the shoot is over because we've gotten along well and she's gotten horny from the shoot, that's one thing. But only if it's her very clear desire to do so. I would never impose myself on a model. I really can't imagine being a professional any other way.

[BBaggins06]

I just got done reading the entire thread and one thing puzzles me.

If this was Khloe's first porn shoot, why was she asked to some of the most humiliating, degrading, disgusting things I've ever heard being shot? WTF? I seriously doubt anyone else has had such depravity heaped onto them on their first day on the job. Why couldn't you have started her out more slowly? Why did you have to make her do such extreme crap the first time out? It's like asking a newborn to do cartwheels and a couple of back flips.

She knew NOTHING about what to expect. How could she? What could have possibly prepared her for what was going to happen? Vicki, how would you have felt if that happened to you on your first shoot?

I don't care if 99% of other movies do it. I don't care how popular it is. That's not the point. The point is that was a complete NEWBIE and had no insider knowledge to fall back on. That's total garbage in my opinion. Mahalo

Matt

[LG]

:|
I have never been in porno. I am ignorant to many specific things about it. So pardon me if I make some wrong assumption.

Well What Vicki says about her not speaking up makes some sense. The guys aren't psychic how could they know she did not consent to what was happening. Especially considering that in their minds it was what she signed up for.

:-/
On the other hand I was raped once. This I do know something about. There was nothing to give this guy any hint that I would consent to his actions. Not the location we were in or any action of mine. Regardless I said nothing to the autorities about this. I was afraid from the begining that it would just be said that "I liked it", that "perverts" like me always like it anyway it comes etc. I would be made out to be the villain who tempted a straight boy to screw me. To be honest he specifically did not do anything to impart that fear. I just knew how people were about girls who got raped and I knew that people like me had to be treated worse. So I said nothing....but I was still raped none the less. I am certain I know just how this girl feels. It is a terrible feeling. I got over it a long time ago but I will never forget. :|

.

I'm sorry to hear all this Brenda. It sounds like you had a really bad experience. I know nothing I say can really help apart from saying I was sorry to read this and am glad you were strong enough to recover from it.

That said, I think the situation with Khloe was different. She was shooting a porn scene. She signed forms. That implies consent. She was desperately unlucky and maybe should have spoken up but, even if she felt like she was being raped, it seems she did nothing to stop it. So sad that a misunderstanding like this can end up in such a bad situation. I can only wish her the best.

Not speaking about this situation in particular but just generally, if someone wants to stop intercourse they can at any time. Consent can be withdrawn, and it's still considered rape even if the person doesn't neccesarily verbalize their want to stop, body language is supposed to be read. Now I understand that's idealistic, but it's the law, at least where I am.

As to the incident, people shouldn't be jumping down Vicki's throat. She wasn't there, and to me she has shown it isn't in her character to knowingly lead a girl into a situation like this, I'm sure there's a certain amount of remorse there. It's an unfortunate situation, there are a lot of emotions, but blindly accusing someone isn't going to make the situation any better. Blind men ignorantly casting stones.

I think it's best to merely offer Khloe our sympathies and our ears, not literally because I use mine from time to time and it would make a really creepy gift, but you get the gist.

Guard and Brenda,

Vicki will correct me if I'm wrong (no doubt) but I do understand that the model release forms were signed or at least handed in after the shoot was finished. It would have been different if forms were only signed before and Khloe changed her mind during the shoot, but if she agreed to everything even after it, then I must say that it is not rape. But Vicki can clarify on this.

Anyway, I'm taking a break for the night. See you all later.

[TheGuard]

That's why I wasn't speaking about the situation in particular because there are always details like that. However if that's the case I would tend to agree with you LG.

Unfortunately we can't take away whatever feelings Khloe may have experienced.

[GroobySteven]

Can we just stop the rape nonsense right now.
Khloe never claimed it was rape - she stated that it was rough and abusive and she had bruises and abrasions afterwards. This was not what she had signed up for and not what she expected - she was humiliated and very upset by the situation.
There was no mention of rape or un-consensual sex.

She signed a model release, was paid and left.

No rape. No claim of rape. So just leave that area alone.

The issue is that no model should leave a shoot like that and through a series of bad judgement calls and mis-communication, as well as in-experience on the part of the production team and the model, she was put in a situation she felt like she could not control.

The issue at hand is how to ensure that this would and could not happen to other models - and also what is apparant, is how producers looking for talent for this type of work can be sure that the model is open to that sort of work.

It's a fucked up situation that this should happen to a model - but she'll get over it. I take a look at other porn which is showing similar styles and I wonder how many of those models turned up expecting something else?

This isn't about sensationalism or about some people trying to be internet heroes, it's about what can happen and what can go wrong - and it's affect on all involved.

It's my personal choice not to promote that specific DVD when it comes out as I would be a hypocrit to make these postings and then make a profit from it - but as I also previously stated, how many of the DVD's in our store might be shot in similar situations - that may appear like acting but in fact, be otherwise.

Maybe it's time that as a sub-genre of a large industry, we as transsexual producers or performers come up with a code of ethics. I'm not talking unions or special clubs but self-regulation which should be followed and adhered to - and then new performers, new talent, new producers would have a set of guidelines to follow.

It will not take much for something to blow the adult industry up - and we don't want to be the ones that light that ignition.

seanchai

[TheGuard]

Out of curiosity, given your experience in the industry, what exactly would you suggest, generalities aside?

[SarahG]

I am not going to speculate on something I know nothing about.

BUT, that being said I will say that I do not agree with the idea that rough sex in porn et al generates violence against women or discrimination against such.

Generally speaking, I know from expirence that office setting employment... when the boss has sex with or seeks sex from a subordinate, the courts routinely consider it sexual harassment -in part because the subordinate might have certain career ramifications for saying no- but I do not believe such cases are often considered rape by the courts.

If I were to venture a guess as to why violence is such a precedented ocurance in the realm of trans people, it comes down to a series of simple yet rarely linked together facts... law enforcement's repeated botched investigations into such incidents (especially murders), the legal system's regularly botched handling of such cases, and the successful use of 'gay panic defense' in the case law in such cases all to name a few. Throw in the general publics hateful predispositions generated from the radical fundamentalist Christian factions and it is by no means a safe mix.

Moving on; a close friend of mine (GB) likes really rough domination at the hands of either ts's or gg's- and his ideal situation involves nothing less than medical trauma (so far as to include -for him mild- deep but nonlethal stabbings)... does his fetish lead to violence against men? If he filmed his sessions and distributed them (not talking commercially)... is that harming his sex's state of existence?

[Charlie Sheen]

Anyway, Khloe, if You need any help going through this issue,
i'm more than willing to help You (and i'm sure even many other
people here too). You know best what happened to You, do not
let anyone else convince You to start to believe it was something
else. I've been handling issues like this one several times before,
and if neccessary, You can count on me.

Seanchai - i give You all the credits for bringing this into light,
in my eyes You are a correct and professional businessman. More people
in that industry should be like You.

[xfiver]

I've just been informed of something which I printed in genuine error and it's 100% my mistake. Khloe is actually 25 and not 19.

I don't think this should make any difference to the situation but I do think that stating she was 19 could be seen to make the situation worse and it was not meant to sensationalise this. As it is Khloe has only done limited shoots and doesn't escort (that I know of).

I don't think it's much of a secret that adult sites use different ages for the girls sometimes (shit - often their name, age, location and ethnicity can all be false) and I didn't have the dilligenece to check her id to get her true age but went from our editorial which was forwarded by Buddy.

My apologies, I wasn't trying to decieve anyone and thanks to Vicki for reminding me of this instead of using the information to potentially embarress me on this website.

As I've stated, the situation is the same whether the model is 19 or 90 - and I don't think it makes a difference to the cause and effect in this case but it could be inferred by some, that a 25 yr old should be more experienced than a 19 yr old.

Thanks
seanchai

http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=15128&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

fyi

[GroobySteven]

I've just been informed of something which I printed in genuine error and it's 100% my mistake. Khloe is actually 25 and not 19.

I don't think this should make any difference to the situation but I do think that stating she was 19 could be seen to make the situation worse and it was not meant to sensationalise this. As it is Khloe has only done limited shoots and doesn't escort (that I know of).

I don't think it's much of a secret that adult sites use different ages for the girls sometimes (shit - often their name, age, location and ethnicity can all be false) and I didn't have the dilligenece to check her id to get her true age but went from our editorial which was forwarded by Buddy.

My apologies, I wasn't trying to decieve anyone and thanks to Vicki for reminding me of this instead of using the information to potentially embarress me on this website.

As I've stated, the situation is the same whether the model is 19 or 90 - and I don't think it makes a difference to the cause and effect in this case but it could be inferred by some, that a 25 yr old should be more experienced than a 19 yr old.

Thanks
seanchai

http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=15128&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

fyi

Guess she started then!
seanchai

[wendy48088]

* Deleted *

[desu]

you're supposed to agree beforehand what to do in the scene and rehearse so you don't end up uncomfortably fumbling around at some point. this is also where you should work out hand signals or tapping to indicate for the guy to slow down in a scene to cut down on editing and keep the atmosphere. none of this is complicated it just requires minimum effort on the producers part.

if you're dealing with clownshoes outfits who haven't done any of the above and the shoot is going really bad just stop and direct the scene yourself by offering suggestions or get up and walk out.

rough sex is definately the norm in American porn but most of it is just fake acting filmed by people who know how to make a scene look rougher than it really is.

but being a pornstar only looks easy when you see the finished product and not the work that goes into spending all day doing it. I always thought some bruising afterwards was pretty much standard occupational hazard in the line of pornstar work

[Kriss]

If you argue that- then what about S&M videos of women severely dominating men. Does that cause more violence towards men?

Regarding the broader debate on 'abusive imagary in porn'.......Very good question this, I believe that violent images CAN have a detrimental effect on the minds and percepyions of a disturbed few. Some guys go loopy from just one drop of alcohol but if we prohionit it , they will just go 'underground' for their fix. The same may be true of violent porn and obviously people like it so they will find it /make it. I do think that type of porn re-inforces sick ideas for a few psychos, yet Allanah make an important ponit that lots of TS porn depicts rough treatment and even mock cruelty towards men. I like dominant women, not someone who enjoys hurting people but sometimes guys want to be bossed about, spanked, maybe slapped a bit. WHY? haven't quite worked that out yet. is there a psychologist in the house? For me it is so different to degrading women on film. The main factor in whether a porn scene looks too rough is beleivability, how realistic the action is. When a 5'9, 130 pound Tgirl is dominating a 6'5" muscle man , I for one never believe that the guy is ever in any danger, he could take control at any time. When a girl appears to be abused by several, men who are obviously more into the degradation than the sex, well that's when I hit the OFF button. HEY , I'm fucked up but i could never understand the appeal of watching realistic, believable violence. I think nasty imagary corrupts the mind.

I've just got to wonder about what the commulative effect(build up) of a large enough dose of this stuff on some people over time is.

I like violent computer games and after 2 days playing GTA, I can literally feel my educated 32 year old mind being warped by it, in real life I drive faster, more aggressively, I act more aggressive, I feel like the game experience has made me more aggressive and that my brain is getting a taste for these chemical releases, adrenaline/ect. If it effects ME like this ,what is it doing to isolated 13 year old boys that play it for weeks on end? I think movies and porn can have a similar effect, somewhere there are guys that watch this (mock)violent stuff 24/7 with little or no 'regular', positive images of women to temper(balance) his perception. In a simple mind that negative image is constantly backed up by watching more and more of this type of porn. Bottom line for me is if the abuse looks realistic, i can't watch. If a girl is screwing a guy HARD and he is obviously hurting a bit, I don't want to see that. He can protest and pretend he don't like it, thats o.k. as long as it is OBVIOUS that he does like it. CAN OF WORMS!


Maybe it's time that as a sub-genre of a large industry, we as transsexual producers or performers come up with a code of ethics. I'm not talking unions or special clubs but self-regulation which should be followed and adhered to - and then new performers, new talent, new producers would have a set of guidelines to follow.

:rock2


Moving on; a close friend of mine (GB) likes really rough domination at the hands of either ts's or gg's- and his ideal situation involves nothing less than medical trauma (so far as to include -for him mild- deep but nonlethal stabbings)... does his fetish lead to violence against men?

Everyone likes a slightly different kind of sex but your freind needs help. Anyone who ejoys being cut, cutting, drawing blood , etc has deep psycological issues and needs to work through that stuff metally, preferably with expert councelling. STABBINGS? that is a little beyond kinky. I beleive in sexual freedom but this man will get into serious problems if he does not address the life experiences that cause him to like blood letting. Nobody likes that stuff 'just by accident'. This isn't role playing or just bedroom 'fun'. I think your freind desparately needs a loving partner that can help him eventually enjoy sex WITHOUT the need to be cut or hurt.

[BrendaQG]

@ Sean

Rape Vs. "a little rough treatment bruising and feeling violated". :-? Semantics all semantics. Choose whatever words you want. Sexual things were done that she did not want done and did not agree to have done to her. That should never ever happen.

[LG]

Brenda said
@ Sean

Rape Vs. "a little rough treatment bruising and feeling violated". :-? Semantics all semantics. Choose whatever words you want. Sexual things were done that she did not want done and did not agree to have done to her. That should never ever happen.

I agree that things happenned that shouldn't have happenned Brenda but I don't think we should still be talking rape. It's more than just semantics in this case. seanchai clearly said:

There was no mention of rape or un-consensual sex. She signed a model release, was paid and left.No rape. No claim of rape. So just leave that area alone.

What happenned clearly was a pretty fucked up situation of a girl getting into something she did not expect, perhaps becuase she was too eager to please or perhaps (as some said) because she was scared- I don't know the reason why. But the model release forms were signed after the shoot and she picked up her paycheck so there is no reason to go into the "rape" issue any longer.

Clearly what happened was wrong because she was, apparently, physically in pain and was bruised- something that she was not expecting would happen. The issue here is for her to recover physically and emotionally as soon as possible and for us to wish her well. And, as seanchai has noted, the next step for those in the industry is to see how this sort of thing can be prevented and how to move on constructively.

For all of us, those in the industry like seanchai and Vicki and the outsiders like myself, it is time to look inside ourselves. All of us help to move the industry whether we make choices as producers or consumers and we can vote with our feet and our wallets to improve the porn industry.

[suckseed]

Being 25 instead of 19 is a big difference. If this was indeed her first experience, then this comes down to one word -
Communication.

[MonsieurValentine]

ouch.

[Vicki Richter]

I just had a third party review the tape and here are some specifics. First, I will absolutely be using this scene. It will be published on my web site and in a video. I am willing to let Buddy and Seanchai see uneditted footage so they can make an assessment on the level of intensity. Second, the scene is apparently "spectacular". Khloey did an amazing performance. Finally, I haven't seen this footage and the feedback I have received came from a third party who was given the video to review.

The scene is 43 minutes of raw footage. The first 14-16 minutes contain Khloey doing a solo / interview where she is smiling, laughing, she is smacking her own left butt cheek several times herself making it visibly red and inserting one and two french tipped long nails into her butt. She is hard throughout this.

When Billy walks in and the oral starts, there is some hardcore oral. There is some nose pinching while doing oral. Her fake eyelash shows on the screen as sticking half off her eye, it was not ripped off her eye, it was taken off by the male talent. It does end up in or near or in her mouth, but she smiles and throws it on the ground. There appears to be some really good chemistry between the performers at this point.

During the anal portion, Khloey is smacked on her ass several times during fucking. It isn't dozens of times. It did not appear excessive. However, this was the only thing seen that could have caused bruising. Her butt cheek is clearly bright red from these smacks.

During pile driver, she is smiling again and laughing. During another position, her foot slips and there is apparently a comment made and she smiles again. This is in around the 30-something minute marker of the tape.

At 41 minutes into the scene, there is a closeup of her butthole as he pulls his cock out of her ass that shows it as not even red. There are visibly no lacerations or blood.

At 41 minutes 12 seconds, Khloey is seen smiling and giggling as the scene gets ready to finish. At 43 minutes she finishes the scene with Billy popping on her face while she voluntarily (not under direction) scoops cum off her face to put it into her mouth. The scene ends with Billy pushing her away and saying something like "now get out of here you whore" or something of that nature and her walking out a door.

During the entire scene, there is no biting or bite marks anywhere that was viewed. It could have been missed by the viewer, but from the footage that doesn't appear to be the case. The oral seems to be the most aggressive. At one point Billy is holding her throat. However, there is no redness on her throat and it clearly isn't full on choking. Her eyes never tear up or bulge like mine do all over my web tour and as can be clearly seen on hardcore choking videos.

So that is what the video looks like. If everything I heard is true, I see this as a very good hardcore scene. Khloey laughs and smiles (and apparently it is clearly not a nervous/scared smile) several times throughout the video in all different positions and times throughout the recording suggesting a good vibe on the set.

Nothing I heard or discussed with the viewer made this sound over-the-top or brutal. I have seen pictures of the shoot and toward the end, she looks tired, her ass cheek is bright red, but her eye makeup is still intact. Anyone who has seen my eye makeup after hard throat fucking - including in Buddy Wood's movie would definitely see a big difference.

I don't know what to say at this point. Laughing and smiling and not saying no or stop is not going to tip off a cameraman or director that you are unhappy with how the scene is progressing.

[MonsieurValentine]

indeed.

[suckseed]

Listen: if you do not stop with that crap, i'm personally going to initiate
a legal investigation of all this. Do you understand it?

Stop hiding and cut the shit Honda. Give us a damn break. Jesus H.

[BrendaQG]

@ Vicki

Well that makes the scene sound as innocent as anything in adult entertainment ever get's. :-)

@LG

So I guess when an actress signs that model release she temporarily sings away basic human rights?

[InHouston]

I've never understood that kind of abusive and thuggery pornography. Khloe seems so sweet and charming on film, and I'm really surprised someone would even want to treat her like that. She's so seductive when she's smiling and flirting with the camera with those beautiful eyes of hers.

If it weren't for their jobs in pornography, those same guys would probably be invading people's homes, bounding the residents up with duct tape, and beating them for their valueables before shooting them.

I guess the only advice I could give, and while ignorant, I wonder if it would be possible for her to perhaps ask for references from other actors who've worked with a potential director so she could talk to them first and see what their work is like. Just a thought.

:2cent

[Harrys Boy]

Listen: if you do not stop with that crap, i'm personally going to initiate
a legal investigation of all this. Do you understand it?

Stop hiding and cut the shit Honda. Give us a damn break. Jesus H.

So is Charlie Sheen Honda? If so its a interesting choice of identity.

[specialk]

Listen: if you do not stop with that crap, i'm personally going to initiate
a legal investigation of all this. Do you understand it?

Stop hiding and cut the shit Honda. Give us a damn break. Jesus H.

So is Charlie Sheen Honda? If so its a interesting choice of identity.

Does the proverbial bear shit in the woods??........."It's gold Jerry ...pure gold"

[NYCe]

If it's Honda he's posting from a different ip address. But Hondarobot has never struck me as the type to create an alternate login.

[GroobySteven]

I don't know what to say at this point. Laughing and smiling and not saying no or stop is not going to tip off a cameraman or director that you are unhappy with how the scene is progressing.

I'd certainly say that sounds very different to what was reported to me, first hand, and how the whole situation was portrayed and the scene sounds a lot tamer than some other TS shoots I've seen with Vicki and others. As I've mentioned to Vicki in private though, why would a performer make those statements about the shoot later (or what does she have to gain from it).

I really don't know if I need to see the tape, as I'm not a censor and I've no reason to doubt Vicki's word whatsover on what is on that tape - or how her male performer/director reported the scene went.

The issue still remains though that this in-experienced performer reported bruises, abuse, choking, etc that she wasn't expecting after the fact - and that's the underlying problem - why someone would feel that aggrieved to do that? I haven't been able to get through to Khloe since Saturday to get her comments on it but the facts remain, that to have people either feeling that way or reporting feeling that way, is highly problematic not only to those producers but to the rest of the industry.

Oh - and Charlie Sheen aka Honda ... I'm calling for you to be banned permamentely.

seanchai

[GroobySteven]

If it's Honda he's posting from a different ip address. But Hondarobot has never struck me as the type to create an alternate login.

If it is - you need to ban him, whoever this Charlie Sheen is - it's someone who isn't a newcomer here - and is posting to cause trouble.
seanchai

[a994]

To each of you who know Khloe personally: please pass along my condolences and well-wishes to her. She did not deserve the kind of treatment she got from whoever did that to her.

[suckseed]

If it's Honda he's posting from a different ip address. But Hondarobot has never struck me as the type to create an alternate login.

If it is - you need to ban him, whoever this Charlie Sheen is - it's someone who isn't a newcomer here - and is posting to cause trouble.
seanchai

Well. I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong. My apologies, Asimo. Second guess would be Superman/Mcmanaman. After that, call Columbo.

[Buddy Wood]

I just spent the last few hours with Khloe and she doesn't feel like coming on here herself to talk about it because pretty much everything has been said that needs to be said and because she's still pretty upset and confused about it all really. She's actually napping on my couch as I write this and couldn't even bring herself to read these posts.

She wasn't raped and doesn't want everything being blown out of proportion - but it was a shoot that went much much farther than she was comfortable with or had anticipated. She wasn't informed of how far it would go - or of how extreme it could get - or of any specifics beforehand and she didn't say no while it was happening.

Why didn't she say no??? I'll tell you this about Khloe - she's a performer. A true performer. The best girls in this industry are I think. They don't just have sex for the camera - they perform for an audience. She was very eager to do good work and get noticed in this industry. It started out as a performance and these guys pushed it into some areas that she was unaware even existed in porn. She kept performing. She was legitimately scared of them as well. As professional as these guys may be they definitely took advantage of her and the situation - but she kept performing. She said this Skeeter guy was a monster. She went to the bathroom and cried at one point then came back to get a fist shoved down her throat and her mouth pried open. All kinds of crazy shit. Things apparently kept going while the cameras weren't even rolling at times. I saw the bite mark on her back. She had a horrible time, a devastating experience and regrets it all.

Bottomline - she should've been well informed of what was going to happen to her and she should've stopped it when it got uncomfortable for her. Those are the two obvious points here. I talked to Vicki personally and will again tonight and she's upset too and I guess it all really boils down to some bad communication on everybody's part.

Khloe's learned a big lesson but the fact remains that they COMPLETELY demoralized her. But then again I guess that was the point of the scene. She's not sure but right now the idea of doing any more porn seems very unlikely and even wrong to her. And this is a girl who 1 week ago was ready to be the next Vanity or even Vicki Richter.

I'm gonna wake her and see if she wants to get some burritos and margaritas now. Maybe she'll talk more on here but I sort of doubt it. She wants to move on.

Buddy

[wayz]

Khloe please listen to this, you have to

I was never interested in TS till I saw you in an add. The first time and 2 of the only reason I was searching google and found this site. The 2 unknown girls... one I couldn't find info about her, and you I found that your name is Khloe.

After some days my curiosity will go away and will go back to usual norm and don't think I will like any other TS rather than you and the other unknown girl.

Reading this thread I came to find out as I was checking stuffs about u.
If a straight guy can hav a crush on a TS then my crush on you will be the max

Love
From A damn sexy guy

A huge crush that ceased inside for you Khloe

[hondarobot]

If it's Honda he's posting from a different ip address. But Hondarobot has never struck me as the type to create an alternate login.

Thank you NYCe. I am not using an alias, I never have. I have no idea who this Charlie Sheen person is or what they are all about. Some people have accused me of making a fake id many many times, and I believe those people may have mental problems. Paranoid delusions and a dissconnect from reality, to be exact.

But this thread isn't about me, is it?

[LG]

BrendaQG said:

@LG
So I guess when an actress signs that model release she temporarily sings away basic human rights?

I didn't say that. I just said that if she agreed to the shoot both before and after, signed the forms and accepted her payment then there is no point talking about rape. It was violent sex, yes. She felt violated and perhaps like she had been tricked, yes, or at least like she had been misinformed. She was unhappy, angry, upset and let down by the system, yes, probably all of those things, and my heart goes out to her. But was she raped? In legal terms? I doubt we should even talk of that. Neither seanchai, nor Buddy nor Vicki have called it that. I doubt Khloe wants anyone to call it that. I'm sure she doesn't want to dwell on it. She probably just wants to move on.

hondarobot said:

But this thread isn't about me, is it?

No, so let's stop arguing and move on. The point is how can we send Khloe our best wishes and, in the long term, how can all of us (producers and consumers) improve the industry.

If Khloe is reading this I hope she will appreciate that we care. Not long ago she posted here and we all swooned at her beauty and her sweet demeanour. I really do wish her the best and hope we can all move on and make things better.

[Khloe Hart]

I've decided to comment on this because it's just been so blown out of proportion. So I'd like to clear the air.

I'm won't to get into the vivid details, but...Basically what happened was I was casted for an aggressive shoot, didn't really know much about it or how it would go, but I wasn't into it. I didn't know this was an aggressive shoot.
I came into the industry with so many hopes and dreams. I just wanted to do the scene without pissing anyone off or letting anyone down, because I really want to be a great performer. So I performed, even though it was too much for me, and I was shaken up. So you see, that's why I didn't say to stop or say no. I did what I apparently was suppose to do and I don't feel good about it.
The guys on the set had no idea that I wasn't ok, because I told them I was fine, even though I wasn't. So you see, it's not right to blame them or anyone for that matter. I should have said no and it's not their fault. I think its all a big miscommunication.

I spoke to Vicki today she is apologetic and genuinely concerned about me and there are no reservations what so ever towards each other.

I really just want this to be over with. And I never wanted this affair to upset anyone and I'm sorry if it did. However, I do really appreciate all of the concern from everyone, thank you.

Khloe Hart

[specialk]

Thanks for your comments Khloe...and good luck down the road!!! Live and learn I guess.

[BeardedOne]

Thank you, Khloe, for your comments on the subject (One that's had more twists and turns than the Burma Road).

If nothing else, this donnybrook (Sp?) has at least got producers and talent thinking towards a shared professional forum where such things can be discussed, making the industry a safer (If not necessarily saner) place for all concerned.

[Legend]

****************************

[chefmike]

I want to aplogize to anyone that i offended by my harsh comments after reading khloe's respond i blew this matter way out of proportion,the one person i would like to truly apologize to is vicki even though i didn't come out and say this was your fault and you didn't care i sorta thought in my mind you didn't care about her but rather the money for that i'm truly sorry.

.I know nothing of the porno industry and should have kept my mouth shut about the whole matter but my oh no someone took advantage over a defenceless person nature took over.

I'm glad it wasn't as serious as i thought, i'll never comment on this sort of matter again.

Thanks for clearing that up, legend.

I'm sure that we were all on pins and needles wondering what your next pearls of wisdom on the subject might be...

[chefmike]

dipshit...

[LG]

Good to hear from you Khloe and to hear that you are well.

Your input I think has helped to clear the situation for all of us. I expected things had happenned in the way you have confirmed they had- it is sad they did, but I had already noted that the thing you probably wanted the most was to get over it and move on.

I wish you all the best in the future, whatever you choose to do, and I'm sure everyone else does too.

[mikejones]

Glad to hear you are OK Khloe. You are a sweetie!

[dbev]

I'm a complete outsider, but I trust Vicki Richter as a professional entertainer. And I dare to tell you that you shouldn't blame yourself beyond a certain point... it happened, it cannot be fixed, but maybe, the people involved and the industry have had also a huge chance of learning.

And I also think that the other men involved are not feeling too well now...

I'm obviously profoundly sorry for Ms Hart, but it was all a big misunderstanding, in my opinion. I may be naive as well, but time, the support of your friends and of Ms Richter, and cuddles may heal your psychological wounds.

I hope that the two of you will take care.

[dbev]

I think that I've killed another discussion.

If you have any spammers, just let me know, in the very moment I arrive the discussion dies.

[houstonshemalefan]

This disgusts me. Taking advantage of any performer in such a way!

[xfiver]

I just had a third party review the tape and here are some specifics. First, I will absolutely be using this scene. It will be published on my web site and in a video.

So when will this be available? I for one would like to see this scene for myself!

[Vicki Richter]

I just had a third party review the tape and here are some specifics. First, I will absolutely be using this scene. It will be published on my web site and in a video.

So when will this be available? I for one would like to see this scene for myself!

Vicki Richter's American Shemales - it just went into editting.

[irishman365]

I must first start by stating that I am amazed, shocked, and seriously infuriated that someone could do something like this. Furthermore to someone as truly beautiful as Khloe. I hope that she recovers well, and that it doesn't cause her to leave the business.

She is a truly beautiful girl, who strikes me as a very caring, nice, and overall great person. I just hope that the person(s) in charge of that filming are driven out of business never to work again. They simply crossed a line that is not even a fine one at that. It's a very bold line that is generally obvious. Again my most heartfelt condolences and I hope all will go well for Khloe.

[GroobySteven]

Well she's appeared in a few DVD's and just done a shoot for franks-tgirlworld.com so I think she's back on track with her career decision, so no permament issues.

I think this topic has been talked out - all the facts, rumours, rebuttals and comments are above that probably need to be stated regarding this situation. Time to move on ...
seanchai

[AllanahStarrNYC]

I just shot with Vicki and Skeeter (whom I met for the first time) this past weekend and I could not say anything but great things about them.

Gia wnet with me to the shoot and it was very relaxed- we almost stole Vicki's two pounds doggie!!

Skeeter was very proffesional and really a pleasure to work with.

[stillies77]

wow...cant wait to you see you two together...its going to be insane!

[house]

I must first start by stating that I am amazed, shocked, and seriously infuriated that someone could do something like this. Furthermore to someone as truly beautiful as Khloe. I hope that she recovers well, and that it doesn't cause her to leave the business.

She is a truly beautiful girl, who strikes me as a very caring, nice, and overall great person. I just hope that the person(s) in charge of that filming are driven out of business never to work again. They simply crossed a line that is not even a fine one at that. It's a very bold line that is generally obvious. Again my most heartfelt condolences and I hope all will go well for Khloe.

yes, i agree. from her posts on the board and her work i can also tell she's creative, beautiful, caring, kind, an intellectual, a renaissance woman. it sucks that she got abused, more so because she's beautiful...you sounded geunine also...

[Mac_Hine]

Bump. :evil:

Is this movie out yet, Vicki Richter's American Shemales?

[Vicki Richter]

Bump. :evil:

Is this movie out yet, Vicki Richter's American Shemales?

The box covers are done. It's on it's way.

[MonsieurValentine]

Bump. :evil:

Is this movie out yet, Vicki Richter's American Shemales?

The box covers are done. It's on it's way.

can you show us the covers?

[Mac_Hine]

The box covers are done. It's on it's way.
Yay, release date?

[sdman]

I wanted to bring into the light a situation which happened to Khloe Hart, a Shemale Yum/Buddy Wood performer. on Thurs which I think the fanbase as well as producers and models should be aware of and open discussion on it.

Those of you who don't know, Khloe is a very pretty 19 yr old transsexual from San Diego who has worked as a model for Shemale Yum and done two scenes in Buddy Wood's DVD's with us. She's a great girl who has posted on this site and has aspirations of being an adult performer, although she is self-admittedly a little naive about the business.
Since she started posting on this site, a number of producers became interested and she went to LA to work on a Wendy Williams production and a Joey Silvera movie among others, she was very excited about working with a lot of named stars and expecting to have the same professionalism and easy going shoots that she'd had with Buddy.

The first shoot she turned up to the location and there was only the director and the performer - I have their names and will post them when I verify them - or hopefully Khloe can. She'd been told it was for a sex scene but the scene turned so rough and abusive that she was scared, humiliated, beaten and abused. I'm not going to over-react here and say the guys beat her up but she has bruises on her ass, shoulders and back from slapping, bite mark and cuts around her anus area (through over agressive sex). Her false eyelashes were ripped off and put in her mouth and she was choked.

This was on Thurs and as of today (Saturday) she still has the bruises.
She was traumatised and came home, cried all night and cancelled her other shoots. She didn't want to post this herself as she felt embarressed and also worried that if she did decide to continue in this industry, then it might go against her.
This is NOT how a shoot should go - not for a seasoned performer and certainly not for a new girl coming into the industry. If you signup specifically for this sort of shoot and agree to it beforehand (and are paid accordingly) then that's one thing but to go to a shoot and be scared and abused, is completely different.

I've re-assured Khloe that this is not how the industry works and not how reputable producers work - this is not the norm and making a statement about it will not affect her working with other producers.

As a business person, this is bad for the industry an industry which thrives on fresh faces and on models feeling safe and comfortable, especially in their first shoots. If Khloe decides not to shoot again, it will be a loss to us all - if potential new transsexual models think this is how they will be treated then we all have problems.

As a fan of Tgirl porn, I'm pretty pissed off. I've seen the more abusive videos, my friend Joey Silvera sometimes produces them but no girl ever complains about him because he doesn't do it without consent, discussion and making the performers comfortable.

As a retailer, even though we would only expect to sell about 50 of any one title through Shemale-Video-Direct, I won't take this product and won't promote it.

Some of you, I'm sure will say that Khloe is naive (she is) and as a performer how could she not expect that ... but for new tgirls in this industry there is no group unlike girl performers who usually work for bigger contract companies or can at least read forums where producers/models rate each other. There is no excuse whatsoever for forcing somebody to do something they didn't wish to - and although legal action could be taken, she's decided not to take that route and put it down to bad experience.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I will be talking to some other producers and talent about the possibility of having our own closed forum for industry support. I hope Khloe will come back onto this site and continue to contribute and I hope she'll decide that there are good producers out there aside from Buddy Wood and do work with them while ensuring that she doesn't do anything that she doesn't want to again.

In light of recent events and complaints about violence against transsexuals, this is another area which rarely gets looked at - abuse within the adult industry.

seanchai

http://www.grooby.com/blog/

seanchai how could you allow this to happen? You muther fuckers have ruined one of the hottest new trannies to hit the industy. Now I see why she retired you let your rape and beat this poor girl!

[sdman]

I just spent the last few hours with Khloe and she doesn't feel like coming on here herself to talk about it because pretty much everything has been said that needs to be said and because she's still pretty upset and confused about it all really. She's actually napping on my couch as I write this and couldn't even bring herself to read these posts.

She wasn't raped and doesn't want everything being blown out of proportion - but it was a shoot that went much much farther than she was comfortable with or had anticipated. She wasn't informed of how far it would go - or of how extreme it could get - or of any specifics beforehand and she didn't say no while it was happening.

Why didn't she say no??? I'll tell you this about Khloe - she's a performer. A true performer. The best girls in this industry are I think. They don't just have sex for the camera - they perform for an audience. She was very eager to do good work and get noticed in this industry. It started out as a performance and these guys pushed it into some areas that she was unaware even existed in porn. She kept performing. She was legitimately scared of them as well. As professional as these guys may be they definitely took advantage of her and the situation - but she kept performing. She said this Skeeter guy was a monster. She went to the bathroom and cried at one point then came back to get a fist shoved down her throat and her mouth pried open. All kinds of crazy shit. Things apparently kept going while the cameras weren't even rolling at times. I saw the bite mark on her back. She had a horrible time, a devastating experience and regrets it all.

Bottomline - she should've been well informed of what was going to happen to her and she should've stopped it when it got uncomfortable for her. Those are the two obvious points here. I talked to Vicki personally and will again tonight and she's upset too and I guess it all really boils down to some bad communication on everybody's part.

Khloe's learned a big lesson but the fact remains that they COMPLETELY demoralized her. But then again I guess that was the point of the scene. She's not sure but right now the idea of doing any more porn seems very unlikely and even wrong to her. And this is a girl who 1 week ago was ready to be the next Vanity or even Vicki Richter.

I'm gonna wake her and see if she wants to get some burritos and margaritas now. Maybe she'll talk more on here but I sort of doubt it. She wants to move on.

Buddy

thats really sad guys were biting her on her back and pulling her mouth open!

[Anubis1079]

seanchai how could you allow this to happen? You muther fuckers have ruined one of the hottest new trannies to hit the industy. Now I see why she retired you let your rape and beat this poor girl!

Ummm, From the way I understand it, Seanchai wasn't there, doesn't condone it, and genuinely seems pissed off about it. So why are you blaming him again? And dropping MFs to boot?

[TJ347]

This entire incident is of course inexcusable, as I believe I said some time ago now. That said, let this be a warning to those who look at entering the porn biz as a minimum work, high pay form of employment. Certainly, things don't go this way for many in the industry, but for those who are too young and/or naive... it's got to be more likely a scenario to be encountered. Something like escorting, only doing porn is safer and legal. Well, usually safer anyway.

[Legend]

I'm not saying any names but i think a certain hot hungangel conspired this from the beginning,she is the one behide the production of that video and when it was all said and done she consider the video "hot" and stated that it will sell.In one her past blogs she has stated that she enjoyed that type of thing,what i think is that she put khloe unknownly in that same predictment and thought she would be cool with it but she wasn't.In one of my earlier post in this thread i assumed it was ok because khloe said so but you can tell that this incident really got to her.I know what i said will probably make me some enemys but i don't care you just don't have that type of incident and be like i didn't know my guys wasn't gonna do that, something doesn't add up.

To that person,was it worth it?

[TJ347]

Kudos, Legend. I've come to a similar opinion, but of course I'm not sure that's what occured. But I did read where Vicki said she thought it was "hot" myself. Oops! Did I name names? Forgive me for being so bold! Of course, since she made that comment in this very forum and it can doubtless be found by anyone inclined to look, there's no reason for me not to name names, now is there? I mean, did she make the comment in confidence, with me promising not to say anything to anybody? Negative. So what's with the "I'm not gonna name any names" shit?

For whatever it's worth, I regret a post I made a few days ago, where I referenced someone who had pissed me off without indicating who that person was, as well as a post I made yesterday in yet another thread, where I alluded to someone acting cowardly in the chatroom but didn't identify that person. Why do I regret doing that? Because that was in and of itself cowardly on my part. Why even mention something someone did publicly if you're not going to identify who the hell you're talking about? So, I will no longer do that. However, for those who fear retribution or whatever, feel free to continue using indecipherably vague descriptions and so forth so as to allude to the identity of the target of your derision. Of course, many will never figure out who you're talking about, making the whole exercise a waste, but presumably that was your hope all along. No offense, but grow some balls. In this case, Vicki Richter is the person being alluded to, and I don't know why the hell there would be any issue just saying so for fuck's sake.

[Quinn]

For whatever it's worth, I regret a post I made a few days ago, where I referenced someone who had pissed me off without indicating who that person was, as well as a post I made yesterday in yet another thread, where I alluded to someone acting cowardly in the chatroom but didn't identify that person. Why do I regret doing that? Because that was in and of itself cowardly on my part. Why even mention something someone did publicly if you're not going to identify who the hell you're talking about? So, I will no longer do that. However, for those who fear retribution or whatever, feel free to continue using indecipherably vague descriptions and so forth so as to allude to the identity of the target of your derision. Of course, many will never figure out who you're talking about, making the whole exercise a waste, but presumably that was your hope all along. No offense, but grow some balls. In this case, Vicki Richter is the person being alluded to, and I don't know why the hell there would be any issue just saying so for fuck's sake.

Good post, TJ. The vague statements you made the other day seemed uncharecteristic of your posting style. That you, as a general rule, own and take responsiblity for your statements is one of the things I've come to enjoy about your posts.

-Quinn

[Anarchy]

I saw this Khloe's scene in American Shemales and must say that I did NOT enjoy. She is pretty girl and most certainly I would expect that there she will be used for some romantic scenes, looking very hot, using her sexy voice ... but THIS movie is disgusting. There are 2 guys who fuck the shit out of her, they spit on her, pulling her hairs, and calling her whore and other stupid names. Really disgusting to abuse such a beautiful model. Who pruduced this movie, I mean is this really Vicki Richter's production. I guess she was not treated so rough in the start of her careesr or was she just envious on Khloe beauty. Ugly, ugly, ugly scene. Something completely different than I saw in Shemale Strokers.

[Vicki Richter]

I've decided to comment on this because it's just been so blown out of proportion. So I'd like to clear the air.

I'm won't to get into the vivid details, but...Basically what happened was I was casted for an aggressive shoot, didn't really know much about it or how it would go, but I wasn't into it. I didn't know this was an aggressive shoot.
I came into the industry with so many hopes and dreams. I just wanted to do the scene without pissing anyone off or letting anyone down, because I really want to be a great performer. So I performed, even though it was too much for me, and I was shaken up. So you see, that's why I didn't say to stop or say no. I did what I apparently was suppose to do and I don't feel good about it.
The guys on the set had no idea that I wasn't ok, because I told them I was fine, even though I wasn't. So you see, it's not right to blame them or anyone for that matter. I should have said no and it's not their fault. I think its all a big miscommunication.

I spoke to Vicki today she is apologetic and genuinely concerned about me and there are no reservations what so ever towards each other.

I really just want this to be over with. And I never wanted this affair to upset anyone and I'm sorry if it did. However, I do really appreciate all of the concern from everyone, thank you.

Khloe Hart

This really should have been the last post on the topic.

[Legend]

Kudos, Legend. I've come to a similar opinion, but of course I'm not sure that's what occured. But I did read where Vicki said she thought it was "hot" myself. Oops! Did I name names? Forgive me for being so bold! Of course, since she made that comment in this very forum and it can doubtless be found by anyone inclined to look, there's no reason for me not to name names, now is there? I mean, did she make the comment in confidence, with me promising not to say anything to anybody? Negative. So what's with the "I'm not gonna name any names" shit?

For whatever it's worth, I regret a post I made a few days ago, where I referenced someone who had pissed me off without indicating who that person was, as well as a post I made yesterday in yet another thread, where I alluded to someone acting cowardly in the chatroom but didn't identify that person. Why do I regret doing that? Because that was in and of itself cowardly on my part. Why even mention something someone did publicly if you're not going to identify who the hell you're talking about? So, I will no longer do that. However, for those who fear retribution or whatever, feel free to continue using indecipherably vague descriptions and so forth so as to allude to the identity of the target of your derision. Of course, many will never figure out who you're talking about, making the whole exercise a waste, but presumably that was your hope all along. No offense, but grow some balls. In this case, Vicki Richter is the person being alluded to, and I don't know why the hell there would be any issue just saying so for fuck's sake.


Point taken

[Legend]

I've decided to comment on this because it's just been so blown out of proportion. So I'd like to clear the air.

I'm won't to get into the vivid details, but...Basically what happened was I was casted for an aggressive shoot, didn't really know much about it or how it would go, but I wasn't into it. I didn't know this was an aggressive shoot.
I came into the industry with so many hopes and dreams. I just wanted to do the scene without pissing anyone off or letting anyone down, because I really want to be a great performer. So I performed, even though it was too much for me, and I was shaken up. So you see, that's why I didn't say to stop or say no. I did what I apparently was suppose to do and I don't feel good about it.
The guys on the set had no idea that I wasn't ok, because I told them I was fine, even though I wasn't. So you see, it's not right to blame them or anyone for that matter. I should have said no and it's not their fault. I think its all a big miscommunication.

I spoke to Vicki today she is apologetic and genuinely concerned about me and there are no reservations what so ever towards each other.

I really just want this to be over with. And I never wanted this affair to upset anyone and I'm sorry if it did. However, I do really appreciate all of the concern from everyone, thank you.

Khloe Hart

This really should have been the last post on the topic.

That's nothing more then her wishing that nasty incident would go away it most cases like that the victim just wants that shit to go away,it doesn't excuse the incident or say it never happened in anyway.Your bufoons took advantage of a girl who didn't know what the heck was going on.This incident really upsets me,i just know what kind of person you truly are and its ashame most people don't see the real vicki ,all they see is vicki richter the transsexual superstar and not vicki richter the real person.

[blackrob]

I've decided to comment on this because it's just been so blown out of proportion. So I'd like to clear the air.

I'm won't to get into the vivid details, but...Basically what happened was I was casted for an aggressive shoot, didn't really know much about it or how it would go, but I wasn't into it. I didn't know this was an aggressive shoot.
I came into the industry with so many hopes and dreams. I just wanted to do the scene without pissing anyone off or letting anyone down, because I really want to be a great performer. So I performed, even though it was too much for me, and I was shaken up. So you see, that's why I didn't say to stop or say no. I did what I apparently was suppose to do and I don't feel good about it.
The guys on the set had no idea that I wasn't ok, because I told them I was fine, even though I wasn't. So you see, it's not right to blame them or anyone for that matter. I should have said no and it's not their fault. I think its all a big miscommunication.

I spoke to Vicki today she is apologetic and genuinely concerned about me and there are no reservations what so ever towards each other.

I really just want this to be over with. And I never wanted this affair to upset anyone and I'm sorry if it did. However, I do really appreciate all of the concern from everyone, thank you.

Khloe Hart

This really should have been the last post on the topic.

From the sound of things you were probably involved in more ways than one and you more than likely told the guys to go crazy on Khloe and treat her like shit! Sounds like you will do anything for a BUCK!

[tojop]

Good luck Klohe.

[Legend]

I've decided to comment on this because it's just been so blown out of proportion. So I'd like to clear the air.

I'm won't to get into the vivid details, but...Basically what happened was I was casted for an aggressive shoot, didn't really know much about it or how it would go, but I wasn't into it. I didn't know this was an aggressive shoot.
I came into the industry with so many hopes and dreams. I just wanted to do the scene without pissing anyone off or letting anyone down, because I really want to be a great performer. So I performed, even though it was too much for me, and I was shaken up. So you see, that's why I didn't say to stop or say no. I did what I apparently was suppose to do and I don't feel good about it.
The guys on the set had no idea that I wasn't ok, because I told them I was fine, even though I wasn't. So you see, it's not right to blame them or anyone for that matter. I should have said no and it's not their fault. I think its all a big miscommunication.

I spoke to Vicki today she is apologetic and genuinely concerned about me and there are no reservations what so ever towards each other.

I really just want this to be over with. And I never wanted this affair to upset anyone and I'm sorry if it did. However, I do really appreciate all of the concern from everyone, thank you.

Khloe Hart

This really should have been the last post on the topic.

From the sound of things you were probably involved in more ways than one and you more than likely told the guys to go crazy on Khloe and treat her like shit! Sounds like you will do anything for a BUCK!


You think!

[YasminLee]

khloe i'm so sorry this had happened to you sweetie...whatever you decide to do after this know that you have a lot of people loving and support you. I'm shock and in tears after reading the post. 30+ scenes in the last 3 years and i can only say i'm fortunate that i didn't run into something like that...we love you very much...xoxo yasmin