STEALTH !

[peggygee]

Stealthhttp://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/stealth20fighter.jpg

are you flying under the radar? http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/stealthcurious.jpg

How open are you?

Is it on a need to know basis?

Does everyone know, are you self-outted?

Guys, girls what are the advantages / disadvantages
of a lady being stealth?




In the context of male-to-female transsexual women,
"passing" means that when you meet someone, they
accept you without any reservations as a women.


But "passing" comes in various degrees, for example it might
mean that you walk in pubic without being identified as man;
another significant stage is called "stealth" where acquaintances,
work colleagues and even a circle of friends are unaware of your
male background; and finally there's "deep stealth", where you
totally live your life as a woman and very close friends and even
your husband are unaware that you are a transwoman.

How deep are you?

[a994]

All I'll say is that if I were married, and my wife did not let me know that she is a t-lady, I would feel highly disappointed that she did not feel she could trust me enough with such intimate information, and that she did not love me enough to let me know about her. After all, once we're married we're supposed to be intimate on all levels. And if I loved her before I knew she was a t-lady, I would still love her just as much.

[Caleigh]

even though i spent yesterday running around doing errands for work, not wearing any makeup at all (lazy girl that i am) and dressed in pants and my big down parka everyone who addressed me always used Miss.

at the same time i consider myself totally self outed. i have no interest in "fooling" anyone as such. i am living my life openly because i feel that if you have no secrets, then no-one has anything on you.

[Alison Faraday]

*deleted*

[wendy48088]

* Deleted *

[sucka4chix]

Don't wanna hi-jack your thread,but I have a question and I think this is a good time to ask: How negative is "stealth" when it comes to health care? I mean if you get in an accident and wake it in a hospital, is it a big deal when people perceive you as one thing and find out otherwise? If you go see a doctor (maybe a walk in urgent care type place) for something minor, do you disclose your status? If you're post-op, how necessary is it that care givers know this? Just curious.

[NYTSJulie]

Today it is very hard to go stealth. With 9-11 and the computer age it is very hard to hide your past. Stealth is not just passing, it is creating a new identity, and not just 99 percent of the time but 100 percent of the time. Doing away with family and friends and your entire life before. A personal friend of mine Leslie Townsend was stealth for many years. She has a book "Hidden in Plain Sight", she was not happy and we arent much of friends anymore. She is a little bit crazy and I think the lack of family and normality in someones life can make them go crazy, just my 2 cents lo.

[Alison Faraday]

*deleted*

[tsmandy]

Thank you Alison for explaining your experiences and perspective on stealth.

One thing that seems different from your perspective: It might be a bit different over in the British Isles, but over here I think it's pretty hard to get a government I.D. with an "F" as a gender marker unless you are are post-Op.
.

This actually depends on where you are as each state operates differently and there are no federal guidelines for gender change. In the state of Oregon I had to go before a judge to change my name and gender. I had to wait about an hour as a line of women changed their maiden names to their husbands names, and when it was my turn, the judge required no letter from a surgeon, involved no discussion, and graciously made no mention of my previous name and gender (even though she stated other name changes full previous names and full changed names).

However, to change my birth certificate is a little more complicated. Having the name and gender change order from the superior court will count to have my name changed, but I need to provide a letter from my surgeon (who is currently very much unreachable) saying I had surgery. So... for the last 4 years I have had no birth certificate or passport. Having a female drivers license has sufficed in most cases. However, not having a female birth certificate or passport has had its consequences. I don't qualify for bank accounts and I'm stuck in the USA.

As for the issue of Stealth. I don't immediately announce to everyone I meet "Hello my name is Mandy and in case you cannot tell from my stunning good looks and my towering height, I'm a transexual, look here's my cock to prove it". But, I have nothing to hide. And I've long lived by a philosophy that goes as follows:

Ways to approach ones own transness in relation to others:
A. Hide it, and if discovered by friends or acquaintances be apologetic.
B. Not discuss it, but if asked be forthcoming
C. Not discuss it, but when I trust someone, I generally just announce it very bluntly at random moments.

I generally stick with B and C

For instance this summer I was talking with a friends boyfriend I had met recently and we were discussing a small town in rural WA. He was telling me about how scary it was for a gay man like himself, and I responded by telling him that I had my balls cut off in a barn there. The "oh my god you're a tranny and I didn't even know look" is absolutely priceless when you are in control of its onset.

[Ant-Man]

I know someone very successful at it... foolin' everyone but a select few, one of the lucky ones being me....

When I read about stealth being the mythical holy grail, I just have to chuckle......

[Alison Faraday]

*deleted*

[Ant-Man]

go ahead & try to find her - my trail leads nowhere

she has more to worry about from the dozens of transsexuals who actually know her by name, some of whom f**k with her regularly

anyway for all you know I made her up, lol

[Alison Faraday]

*sighs*

[tsntx]

? huh

[Ant-Man]

the juicy name-calling got edited out
after I removed some of her accomplishments
:)

[Jennifer_English]

Good question peggy...

I'll answer it like this.....

I spent 24yrs living with this secret i thought i had to hide from everyone....

Now im 28 I dont want to spend the rest of my life hiding another secret...!

I dont shout about it from the rooftops.. but if someone asks I will tell them str8 away...

If you dont like me for what I am fine..... jog on...

But I am not having any more secrets..

xx

[TheGuard]

That's a healthy way to be.

[yodajazz]

In my visits to MySpace, I wonder about the ones who are ‘stealth’, at least they are not saying anything on their page. I believe that they don’t have to tell anyone unless they are intimate. However, it would seem that they have to tell them at some point. I have seen some that I believe areTs with load of guys sending them messages, and with them out with men. I just wonder. I do know that it is different with each, if and when to tell them.

Then there are others who tell people right off the back, even though most people would not know. I have to admire their honesty.

I used to have a fantasy that I would live with a stealth Ts, as man and wife, kind of pulling one over on the world. But now my fantasy is just to have a relationship that stays fresh over long a period time.

[sucka4chix]

Alison, I see you deleted your posts,but thank you for the insight! I have even more respect and awe for TS girls--- that's alot to deal with and think about. I commend you because you display alot of wisdom in the way you think about and handle things.

[Alison Faraday]

Alison, I see you deleted your posts,but thank you for the insight! I have even more respect and awe for TS girls--- that's alot to deal with and think about. I commend you because you display alot of wisdom in the way you think about and handle things.

Thank you. That's very kind of you to say so. :) While I know that I don't always put things across as well as I could, or sometimes say the wrong things. About the only thing that I can say is that I'm real. What you see here isn't a fabricated thing invented for show just to get signups for my site and to bump my name to the top, this is me. I delete things as I'm not always sure of myself, I'm embarassed of what I say sometimes. Oh I don't know :D You know what I mean. ;-)

Here's what I wrote for anyone else to read through;

"
Funny old thing stealth is. In summing up, it's very lonely. A bit like being inbetween a rock and a hard place. You have your whole past which is part of you, and with some aspects onging, yet you carry on (or try to) as normal.

One thing you (those reading) will encounter is older transsexuals that do not pass and sound like men, yet proclaim they're in stealth, and how miraculous and wonderful it is. "God has been so kind to me," "I'm the woman I was always meant to be." Absolute complete and utter bollocks!!

Stealth is a funny old thing, as you can't readily talk to anyone about it, and if you do try to do so while being anonymous on an online support forum, then they simply do not understand. To be in stealth is to have no point of reference, no reassurance, and no support. It is very much like being a spy. Except your own spy with no organisation or training..

In real life, and that's REAL life as in not in this digital paradox of very confused people, I do live in stealth. I tell no one. I don't think to tell anyone. As to do so would not be to my benefit. While there are a significant number of understanding people out there, there are also a significant number of bigots. I can promise you that. To have blind faith in people is dangerous, just as to suspect everyone is paranoid. So the solution is to avoid the thinking that leads you there in the first place.

Now here's a problem. I have a female passport, a female driving licence, a female birth certificate, and as far as identifying myself goes I am female. Yet, one of my bank accounts is in my old male name. Statements arrive monthly for this account, and they were given all of the relevant documentation years ago to update their details. Yet they wouldn't do it. Unless the option is there on their screen, unless it's easy for them, then your details are staying just how they are. So, this account in my old name is totally inaccessible to me, since I don't have any old ID or way of proving who I was. I can't even close the account, and in the past have had a fraud marker put on my credit reference file. "Woman trying to access man's account," why thank you for the compliment.

Carrying on about this bank account thing and stealth.. When I first transitioned I truly experienced what total fucking cunts people can be. And as time went by I got over it, they disappeared, and I settled into my new life. Now with this bank account which I have to pay into as part of my old student debt, the moment my old name comes up on screen occasionally the cashier serving me will just 'change'. They'll go from chatty chatty, to cold and no eye contact being very formal. That's the dilemma with everyday people and transsexuals. They think that they have a right to know, and that you are deceiving them. They do not realise how much danger you are in and why they are not told. It's ok for them as they're not transsexuals!! Stupid people!

This is the thing with stealth, as you don't actually know that you're there. It slowly creeps up on you but it can come crashing down in minutes, and you have to deal with it on the fly right there and then, gun in your face. There are those in ultra deep stealth, yet in a way they are very lonely people as far as their past goes. Some cope with it and I can't comment, as neither I or you are ever going to know who they are.

Am I in stealth? Well, it's a bit of a pisser for me to be sitting here talking about while my pictures are plastered allover the net. There's 3-billion of us in this world. I'm 1. So I don't feel the risks are overly great. The chances of someone recognising me in everyday life are almost next to nil. Depending of course on where I go. If I go to SoHo in London, then there's a risk. But I'm not likely to go there anyway.

What we all need in life is acceptance, inclusion, and a feeling that we fit in. Maybe that's why I'm here. I have so many skeletons in my closet and stones to be unturned that emotionally I feel safe here now and then. As there's no risk of being a genetic female, and having someone go digging about in my past or finding a crucial cryptographicly hidden number out of place.

The reality of stealth is that it is a mythical thing. It does not exist. It is the Holy Grail. Degrees of stealth are achievable however, yet to go around telling everyone that you live in stealth is a bit like being a spy and going around telling everyone that you are a spy. A bit of a conundrum wouldn't you say. Maybe that person is either confused or living in a fantasy.

My method of self preservation, and that's pretty much what it's all about once we get down to the nitty gritty, is to avoid issues involving other transsexuals. I find it stressful. And I find it confusing too, it raises questions that I don't like. I have rationised my existance in the world and I'm happy. And since reality is also a mythical thing that changes with the times, no one person can say that I'm right or wrong since I don't ever get into the debate in the first place.

So am I breaking rules by writing this? For all that I have said so far, am I rubbishing that? The truth is, I like to tell my story, and I like to do it well. Afterwards I will read through this and gain reassurance from someone. That someone being me. That's not being aloof in any way. That is looking after yourself and healing yourself, when there is no one else that can truly help.

Until you are comfortable in yourself it does not matter what, where, or who you are. That is what this is all about. And those are the true pre-requisites to stealth. Stealth is not real. But then again, what is? :)
"


"
Mmmm, good question. Unless it's genital related I simply do not disclose it. Being asked "When was your last period," is the question that gets you first time round. :D

My old medical notes were lost on their many journies around the UK's antiquated health system, so there's no record pointers back to my past. Which I'm not exactly shouting about either. It's quite convienient really. The other thing I never did was get myself on lots of computer databases either, I've always been quite secretive about my personal details. I just don't do it. If I can pay cash then I do, that kind of mentality.

The only time I did disclose my background was after my orchiectomy when I had an infection. It wasn't a massive problem, but the local hospital wasn't getting involved at all or taking any responsibilty. They were good though, totally brilliant and friendly, just very distant from the immiediate reason I'd gone there. Hospitals are like that in the UK at the moment, as so many people cry wolf which just pisses it up for everyone else. In the end I took a couple of photos which I hid online and phoned up my GP, I was in there a few hours later. Going through triage with some dippy secretary wasn't quite working and not high up on my want-to-do list.

I use the term 'intersexed' with medical people whom I don't know and am never likely to meet again, since the instances in the population are about 1 in 1000. Intersex conditions are something they are aware of from their training and don't carry the same stereotypes as saying you are a transsexual. It is afterall the first few minutes that you make your impression. And manipulating that human trait is important.

When you look female. When you sound female. When you are female to people. Having a cock kind of throws them totally. There was a Swedish couple that my partner did a shoot with and they hadn't clocked me at all until my partner said so. That's another thing.... OTHER people outting you. That's another aspect of stealth. You can't untell people. Once they know. Once you get into the situation where a few wrong people know, you're fucked. It's either all or nothing.

It's all just about how you handle it. You can have two people who say the same things, yet get a completely different reaction due to the aura that they give off. It's as simple as that. Genetic women have an aura around them, and very very few transsexuals ever achieve it no matter how good they look or how well they pass. They just don't have it.

The whole thing is a head game and it's all about how well you understand the human physche. As the human species we have alot of forgotton and unused skills and intuitions. We can still tap those but don't always know how to interpret them, we can sense that something isn't right. It's being aware of just how clever even the most apparently stupid are. No one is truly stupid since each has their God's gifts. As for whether God exists, that another matter entirely, but I am respectful and open minded enough not to discount the belief. I am respectful of all.

As I said; Stealth is a funny old thing.

:)
"

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

At some midwestern/southern states being STEALTH is WEALTH! Atleast from experience. lol Not alot of people in the midwest/southern states are exposed to transgenders (and the variety within). So either, you go home 'black and blue' from being beaten up (like a few girls I know of) or you just fly under radar and live life like everyone else.

Being stealth and not going thru all the fuss for me when out walking the streets, going to the mall and or as simple task as taking public transpo is the best thing a girl could do IMO. Then again, not everyone prefers to be stealth. :lol: ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

[Caleigh]

i don't consider being able to walk the street and not to get "clocked" stealth. that just being passable.

stealth is when no-one you work with and none or almost none of your friends have any idea that you are ts.

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

There's some truth to that Caleigh and I agree. But, isnt being stealth also meant being passable? If you're passable and no one knew you're a ts walking the street/mall etc..No one harrassed and clocked you by saying "That's a dude" then you're being stealth am I right? Even after you talked to them in a social setting? Yes? No? Maybe? ;)

Being stealth with a few co-workers, friends etc. is another story which I know only a few are able to pull off with flying colors. :P

I have a tg friend who had srs years ago. She managed to update..i.e fix and changed all her papers from M to F (birth certificate, drivers license, passport etc.). Anyways, going back she got engaged later on married to this guy.They tried to "concieved" a child (which we all know isnt quite possible). So she also went as far as to connive with her own doctor to figuring out what to tell her husband. To cut this very long story short, Her husband found out her being "Too slealthy" about her past and divorced her because of deception.

Passable (Adjective)

1: a: capable of being passed, crossed, or traveled on <passable roads> b: capable of being freely circulated

2: good enough : adequate

Stealth (Adjective)

a: intended not to attract attention.

~Kisses.

HTG

[Caleigh]

in a venn diagram stealth would be a subset of passable wouldn't it? which would itself be a subset of all ts.

though this whole passability thing is hardly clear cut.

allanah i heard was "clocked" on Maury, but that's such an artificial setting. some people have very bad trans-dar and some can spot that Barbara Bush is TS.

[peggygee]

There's some truth to that Caleigh and I agree. But, isnt being stealth also meant being passable? If you're passable and no one knew you're a ts walking the street/mall etc..No one harrassed and clocked you by saying "That's a dude" then you're being stealth am I right? Even after you talked to them in a social setting? Yes? No? Maybe? ;)

Being stealth with a few co-workers, friends etc. is another story which I know only a few are able to pull off with flying colors. :P

I have a tg friend who had srs years ago. She managed to update..i.e fix and changed all her papers from M to F (birth certificate, drivers license, passport etc.). Anyways, going back she got engaged later on married to this guy.They tried to "concieved" a child (which we all know isnt quite possible). So she also went as far as to connive with her own doctor to figuring out what to tell her husband. To cut this very long story short, Her husband found out her being "Too slealthy" about her past and divorced her because of deception.

Passable (Adjective)

1: a: capable of being passed, crossed, or traveled on <passable roads> b: capable of being freely circulated

2: good enough : adequate

Stealth (Adjective)

a: intended not to attract attention.

~Kisses.

HTG

The definitions you have supplied are correct, though in
our discussion I thought these might be more apropos;


In the context of male-to-female transsexual women,
"passing" means that when you meet someone, they
accept you without any reservations as a women.


But "passing" comes in various degrees, for example it might
mean that you walk in pubic without being identified as man.


Another significant stage is called "stealth" where acquaintances,
work colleagues and even a circle of friends are unaware of your
male background.


Finally there's "deep stealth", where you totally live your life as a
woman and very close friends and even your husband are unaware
that you are a transwoman.

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

I agree that subsets and or classifications are inevitably present (as is with any other species). There are varying degrees and subtle differences between classes/distinctions of passability and being stealthy. But to me they are somewhat "intertwined" and one cannot go by without the other. Like one cannot be "stealthy" and NOT be passable FIRST. Only then can one who's passable be stealthy. Maybe Im wrong? It sure is a brain twister of some sorts if you think more about it. LOL


some can spot that Barbara Bush is TS.

LOL :lol: That was a good laugh!

~Kisses.

HTG

[Ecstatic]

There's another element here: intent. Yes, as Caleigh says, in a venn diagram stealth would be a subset of passable, which would in turn be a subset of transgender. But stealth I think implies more of an intent to fly under the rader, while passable not so much. Not that a passable girl would want to be read, as such, but that she's not so concerned about hiding her T, but a stealth girl would and does intend to hide that--as Peggy says, even so far as hiding it from her husband (a bad move as Hara's story illustrates).

I would hazard that all girls want to pass, but do all want to go stealth?

[peggygee]

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/SpyWhoCameIn.jpg

I was a deep stealth operative for http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/top_secretcrop.jpg

However I was demoted to a stealth operative for blowing my cover.
I had to though as the stress of being under became too great to bear.

Living deep stealth is just like living in the closet. You are always fearful
that you will be found out. The consequences of being found out can
range from embarrasment, to being a social outcast, to physical violence,
and perhaps even to death.

You are always wary, did you say the wrong thing, was the pitch of your
voice off, did you exhibit the proper mannerisms.

Of course the longer you are 'on the job' the better and more adept you
become in your role. I had been on the job 30 years, working my way
up the ranks from being a passable pre op, to a stealthy pre op, then
ultimatlely to a deep stealth post op.

Right from the onset, I had all of my identification changed, so that it
would be congruent to my cover. I was deeper than a mole planted
by the KGB during the Cold war. There were very few who knew
the me that I was born as. Of course there was my family. As a pre
op my lovers would have to know, but to others it would be a State
secret.

Once I made it to post op, I didn't even have to tell my lovers, if I
didn't desire. Not even all of my doctors knew. When I had lipo
recently there was no need to share that information as she was
sucking fat, not my clit. :roll:

Thus for a number of reasons I have broken cover, one reason is that
I hope some of my experiences will be helpful to others. But a less
altruistic reason is that it can be lonely living in a crowded closet.

In that closet there is no one to share your thoughts, fears, and
concerns. As agent Faraday of MI-5 has stated it sometimes is nice
to share your feelings with other operatives.

While no longer deep stealth, I still utilize my stealth training. I limit
photos of myself on the Net, and will blur them somewhat so that
they won't be disseminated and come back to haunt me. I still limit
divulging my past to people in the 'real world' to a need to know basis.

I never know when I may have to go back under.

Thus on that note, once you have read this post please look into to the light. http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/deepstealthpeg.gif :roll:

[Caleigh]

great post

[Alison Faraday]

PMSL :)

I hope that wasn't a dig though :oops:

Oh God, I'm at the top of page 4 now. Time to change my avatar back, that's a bit much.

[peggygee]

great post

Thanks Caleigh,

This has been a really insightful thread for me, I have learned a lot
from the feedback of all the women in this thread.

It's times like this that I really value being here.

By the by, I would still be up for a gallery date, as I missed the
other one due to being tied up with my Mom - if the invitation is
still open. :wink:

[peggygee]

PMSL :)

I hope that wasn't a dig though :oops:



No dig, other than I really dug your posts, so much so that I was
speechless when I read it yesterday. http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/thumbsup.gif

[Alison Faraday]

No dig, other than I really dug your posts, so much so that I was
speechless when I read it yesterday. http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/thumbsup.gif

Yayyyy. (((hugs)))

Let's not even go there. :wink:

God! I've just read what I wrote in that long one on the previous page. Bloody 'ell. :soapbox

Did I really write that? :screwy

:oops:

[peggygee]

Today it is very hard to go stealth. With 9-11 and the computer age it is very hard to hide your past. Stealth is not just passing, it is creating a new identity, and not just 99 percent of the time but 100 percent of the time. Doing away with family and friends and your entire life before. A personal friend of mine Leslie Townsend was stealth for many years. She has a book "Hidden in Plain Sight", she was not happy and we arent much of friends anymore. She is a little bit crazy and I think the lack of family and normality in someones life can make them go crazy, just my 2 cents lo.

Julie, you make two very salient points.

With this computer era that we live in now, women transitoning
will have their pasts following them very closely.

In the autumn of my life (late Summer :roll: ) I am fortunate to
have lived the majority of my time on this planet in the correct
gender. Thus the lions share of my work history, education, credit
history, etc has been as Peggy. So the paper trail tends to end up
as it should.

Your second point about normalcy in ones life rings true as well.
I am sure that many of the women of the board can attest to how
stressful it is to cover up, or sanitize various parts of your life.

Even though you may pass well or successfully, you always feel
as if your cover is going to be blown and your life be placed in
jeopardy.

You may always be hyper-vigilant, you are always on.

Bottom line for us, if you out yourself, you may subject yourself
to external stressor. If you don't out yourself then you may have
internal stressors, so I can identify with the 'crazy feeling'.
:frustrated

[peggygee]

Here's what I wrote for anyone else to read through;

"
Funny old thing stealth is. In summing up, it's very lonely. A bit like being inbetween a rock and a hard place. You have your whole past which is part of you, and with some aspects onging, yet you carry on (or try to) as normal.

One thing you (those reading) will encounter is older transsexuals that do not pass and sound like men, yet proclaim they're in stealth, and how miraculous and wonderful it is. "God has been so kind to me," "I'm the woman I was always meant to be." Absolute complete and utter bollocks!!

Stealth is a funny old thing, as you can't readily talk to anyone about it, and if you do try to do so while being anonymous on an online support forum, then they simply do not understand. To be in stealth is to have no point of reference, no reassurance, and no support. It is very much like being a spy. Except your own spy with no organisation or training..

In real life, and that's REAL life as in not in this digital paradox of very confused people, I do live in stealth. I tell no one. I don't think to tell anyone. As to do so would not be to my benefit. While there are a significant number of understanding people out there, there are also a significant number of bigots. I can promise you that. To have blind faith in people is dangerous, just as to suspect everyone is paranoid. So the solution is to avoid the thinking that leads you there in the first place.

Now here's a problem. I have a female passport, a female driving licence, a female birth certificate, and as far as identifying myself goes I am female. Yet, one of my bank accounts is in my old male name. Statements arrive monthly for this account, and they were given all of the relevant documentation years ago to update their details. Yet they wouldn't do it. Unless the option is there on their screen, unless it's easy for them, then your details are staying just how they are. So, this account in my old name is totally inaccessible to me, since I don't have any old ID or way of proving who I was. I can't even close the account, and in the past have had a fraud marker put on my credit reference file. "Woman trying to access man's account," why thank you for the compliment.

Carrying on about this bank account thing and stealth.. When I first transitioned I truly experienced what total fucking cunts people can be. And as time went by I got over it, they disappeared, and I settled into my new life. Now with this bank account which I have to pay into as part of my old student debt, the moment my old name comes up on screen occasionally the cashier serving me will just 'change'. They'll go from chatty chatty, to cold and no eye contact being very formal. That's the dilemma with everyday people and transsexuals. They think that they have a right to know, and that you are deceiving them. They do not realise how much danger you are in and why they are not told. It's ok for them as they're not transsexuals!! Stupid people!

This is the thing with stealth, as you don't actually know that you're there. It slowly creeps up on you but it can come crashing down in minutes, and you have to deal with it on the fly right there and then, gun in your face. There are those in ultra deep stealth, yet in a way they are very lonely people as far as their past goes. Some cope with it and I can't comment, as neither I or you are ever going to know who they are.

Am I in stealth? Well, it's a bit of a pisser for me to be sitting here talking about while my pictures are plastered allover the net. There's 3-billion of us in this world. I'm 1. So I don't feel the risks are overly great. The chances of someone recognising me in everyday life are almost next to nil. Depending of course on where I go. If I go to SoHo in London, then there's a risk. But I'm not likely to go there anyway.

What we all need in life is acceptance, inclusion, and a feeling that we fit in. Maybe that's why I'm here. I have so many skeletons in my closet and stones to be unturned that emotionally I feel safe here now and then. As there's no risk of being a genetic female, and having someone go digging about in my past or finding a crucial cryptographicly hidden number out of place.

The reality of stealth is that it is a mythical thing. It does not exist. It is the Holy Grail. Degrees of stealth are achievable however, yet to go around telling everyone that you live in stealth is a bit like being a spy and going around telling everyone that you are a spy. A bit of a conundrum wouldn't you say. Maybe that person is either confused or living in a fantasy.

My method of self preservation, and that's pretty much what it's all about once we get down to the nitty gritty, is to avoid issues involving other transsexuals. I find it stressful. And I find it confusing too, it raises questions that I don't like. I have rationised my existance in the world and I'm happy. And since reality is also a mythical thing that changes with the times, no one person can say that I'm right or wrong since I don't ever get into the debate in the first place.

So am I breaking rules by writing this? For all that I have said so far, am I rubbishing that? The truth is, I like to tell my story, and I like to do it well. Afterwards I will read through this and gain reassurance from someone. That someone being me. That's not being aloof in any way. That is looking after yourself and healing yourself, when there is no one else that can truly help.

Until you are comfortable in yourself it does not matter what, where, or who you are. That is what this is all about. And those are the true pre-requisites to stealth. Stealth is not real. But then again, what is? :)

As I said; Stealth is a funny old thing.

:)
"


Sometimes I will read a post that leaves me speechless, that takes
my breath away, that does a shock and awe to my mind.

This was one such post. I read it on Saturday, and late Sunday night
it is still germinating in my mind. It actually sparked my train of thought
with my post. And at this late hour I am finally able to articulate
a response.

In your post you make a number of important points, a few that I
and other posters have touched on, but I would like to briefly revisit
just a couple.




One thing you (those reading) will encounter is older transsexuals that do not pass and sound like men, yet proclaim they're in stealth, and how miraculous and wonderful it is. "God has been so kind to me," "I'm the woman I was always meant to be." Absolute complete and utter bollocks!



I think this is a potential danger to all transwomen. Both you and Wendy
have touched on this.

Either a transwomen is hyper-sensitive about passing or she feels that
she has 'stopped the clock', in that no one can read her. I believe the
reality may lie somewhere in between, and each women must make a
careful assessment of the women in the mirror, and tweak the things
she can, live with the things she can't and have the wisdom to know
the difference.




To be in stealth is to have no point of reference, no reassurance, and no support. It is very much like being a spy. Except your own spy with no organisation or training.



The credo of the stealth operative. Except that you are either self-trained,
or maybe others have influenced your training, or the odds of surviving
decrease exponentially.




What we all need in life is acceptance, inclusion, and a feeling that we fit in. Maybe that's why I'm here. I have so many skeletons in my closet and stones to be unturned that emotionally I feel safe here now and then.



There are times when I am here when there is all the dissension and
infighting, and I say to myself, "self - what the fuck am I doing here,
I don't need all this grief and aggravation".

Yet there are few places, or people that I can express many of the
sentiments that are on my mind.

When it's good here, it can be very good. When it's not, you want to
bust a cyber - cap in somebodys ass. :roll:

And finally




So am I breaking rules by writing this? For all that I have said so far, am I rubbishing that? The truth is, I like to tell my story, and I like to do it well. Afterwards I will read through this and gain reassurance from someone. That someone being me. That's not being aloof in any way. That is looking after yourself and healing yourself, when there is no one else that can truly help.



When I make a post, ask a question, I never am quite sure what
the answer will be, if there is an answer or whether the post will get
lost in a sea of dick pics.

It is very comforting though to get so many well thought out responses.
A truly interesting part is that no matter how different we may be, whether
by virtue of race, age, national origin, backgrounds, how similiar in many
instances our needs, fears and concerns can be.

[signupjustforthis]

I usually don't say anything because it's none of anyone's business. However, I don't like to lie to people. I don't care if people know, they will judge regardless. All that ever matters and this goes for everyone is to accept ourselves as who we are. I totally accept myself and love myself and no one can bring me down. They might know that I am a transsexual, but they don't know me, they don't know who I am and what I went through and is still going through. No one can judge me except God and myself.

So if you accept me, great.
If you don't accept me, that's fine too.

[tsntx]

^^ co-sign

to what caleigh said about peggys post... not whats nec. above me

[strawberry]

I dont shout about it from the rooftops.. but if someone asks I will tell them str8 away...

If you dont like me for what I am fine..... jog on...

But I am not having any more secrets..
That's a healthy way to be.
Assuming someone passes reasonably well and is confident, it sounds to me like a way to end up stealth by accident. That was my attitutude when I started out. Two years later I stopped to think and it occured to me that no one had asked. And no one I lived with, worked with, went to school with, or was just friends with knew my deal.

The director of the dorms knew because I told her when I applied to live there. My doctor in the student clinic knew because I asked her to refill a script when I went in for a bad cold. My boyfriend was the only person in my life who knew my weird situation (I volunteered the info with him - kinda had to being pre-op and whatnot), who was in my life everyday, and who mattered to me.

Sometimes I visited home and got to see what being "the girl who used to be a guy" was like. It was different, not terrible, even good in some ways, but I didn't like it as much. Different guys flirt with you. Other girls are maybe not as threatened and in some ways they're actually nicer - you can't be the "alpha chick" you're not even in the running - if you wear something sexier than them you get "oh that's cute!" without a whiff of cattiness. Of course, I never applied for a job back home...

Once I realized that what the OP called deep stealth was attainable with slightly better paperwork, not visiting home, and not telling a bf... it weirded me out. Like, I started wondering if my friends would believe that I wasn't hiding it but it just didn't come up. And honestly, maybe they'd be right and I'd been lying to myself. So I came out to a couple of my best friends. And that was it. Talking with them convinced my that I should keep doing the stealth thing pretty much the same.

"Are you going to tell anyone else?"
"I think I should tell Bob."
"Are you sure? Remember when he thought it was interfering with nature for his girlfriend to take BC?"
"OMG, I hadn't even connected that to this... you really think so?"
"Yeah, and he's actually pretty homophobic too, I was talking to him maybe two months ago and..."

So I went from not feeling like it was hiding anything to discovering I'd been doing what nearly everyone else would call keeping secrets. And I continued to do that because it made for a mostly happier life that way, at least for me and what I wanted out of life. But I lost the illusion that there weren't people who'd feel betrayed by what they'd see as secrecy, and started taking that into account going forward. If it comes up, the important part to other people is likely to be that they didn't know, not that your intentions were pure in not telling them.

lots of amazing honest stuff
Thanks for that. The lonelines and parts about the way things are just a database entry away from falling apart... I noticed things about my life I hadn't had words for before.

Am I in stealth? Well, it's a bit of a pisser for me to be sitting here talking about while my pictures are plastered allover the net. There's 3-billion of us in this world. I'm 1. So I don't feel the risks are overly great. The chances of someone recognising me in everyday life are almost next to nil. Depending of course on where I go. If I go to SoHo in London, then there's a risk. But I'm not likely to go there anyway.
Watch out. That kind of thinking works until Google puts face recognition software in its search engine and treats any pages with the same face in them as linked. There's a reason I'm a strawberry :-)

[a994]

At some midwestern/southern states being STEALTH is WEALTH! Atleast from experience. lol Not alot of people in the midwest/southern states are exposed to transgenders (and the variety within). So either, you go home 'black and blue' from being beaten up (like a few girls I know of) or you just fly under radar and live life like everyone else.



Ah, thank you Hara Juku for bringing back such wonderful memories of the southern state I come from (Texas). Thank you for reminding me of one of the major reasons why I will never live there again. :)

[peggygee]

Assuming someone passes reasonably well and is confident, it sounds to me like a way to end up stealth by accident. That was my attitutude when I started out. Two years later I stopped to think and it occured to me that no one had asked. And no one I lived with, worked with, went to school with, or was just friends with knew my deal.

.


Watch out. That kind of thinking works until Google puts face recognition software in its search engine and treats any pages with the same face in them as linked.

There's a reason I'm a strawberry :-)

Yeah stealth is funny that way, sometimes you can end up there without
really trying, it just happens over time.

It's one of those it walks like a duck.
Quacks like a duck.
Must be a duck, things. :shrug


On and being a strawberry beats being a banana. :peanutbutter

:roll:

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

At some midwestern/southern states being STEALTH is WEALTH! Atleast from experience. lol Not alot of people in the midwest/southern states are exposed to transgenders (and the variety within). So either, you go home 'black and blue' from being beaten up (like a few girls I know of) or you just fly under radar and live life like everyone else.



Ah, thank you Hara Juku for bringing back such wonderful memories of the southern state I come from (Texas). Thank you for reminding me of one of the major reasons why I will never live there again. :)

Yup! Me too a994. Unless ofcourse you're starting out a family and your tg wifey is to go STEALTH and become a soccer mom! :wink: LOL

~Kisses.

HTG

[NYTSJulie]

Here is an example. I had my name changed when I am 22 and I lived in MN at the time. I went to the DMV and got a new licence then did the SS office and all that.

I was living with my ex at the time and one night we got into a big screaming match. I can be a real loud girl, lol so one of my neighbors called them cops.

My ex was the typical "bad boy". A big muscle guy with a few tats and a goatee. When they showed there was 2 male cops and they were pretty hot. They treated me like the "poor woman" and were all protective of me.

They ran both of our ID's to make sure there was no warrants and when they ran mine they asked me "who is this ......" and they said a male name (I am not going to say my old name, lol). I was so taken back, I didnt know what to say other then the truth. I felt very awkward.

My licence says female with a female name, but in my record it says I have had a name change and what my old name used to be.

Now I have moved back to NY and have not gotten a new licence because I need to figure out a way for that little piece of information to drop off some how. I know I can never get rid of it entirely, but I do not want it on my DMV record where it is accessible to any cop who could pull me over.

I was pulled over here on Long Island last year. I was going 75 in a 40, lol. I like to drive fast. The cop was my age, and all into me. I lowered my top a bit as he came to my window. I didnt get a ticket but he handed me his card with his number instead. So after that situation I gathered that not all my info is accessible when I am in another state, since I still have a MN licence.

[TJT]

Did either of the cops give you a phone call later offering personal security services?

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

What part of MN did you live NYTSJulie? I also am from MN (St. Paul) til about '99. My friends and I (GG and TG's) hang out at the 90's, Southbeach, The Saloon, BrassRail, 1st Ave., Old Chicago, Uptown, Paisley Park and that club facing Brassrail which got closed I couldnt recall the name? :?

~Kisses.

HTG

[NYTSJulie]

What part of MN did you live NYTSJulie? I also am from MN (St. Paul) til about '99. My friends and I (GG and TG's) hang out at the 90's, Southbeach, The Saloon, BrassRail, 1st Ave., Old Chicago, Uptown, Paisley Park and that club facing Brassrail which got closed I couldnt recall the name? :?

~Kisses.

HTG

I lived right downtown Mpls in Loring Park. I moved there in the summer of 98. I have been to all those clubs, and know them well.

I know all the local girls. I am not sure if we have met but if you ask some of the girls they all know me. I used to run an agency at one time, and all the trannys worked for me. This was be4 the Internet and the days when everyone would have ads in City Pages.

I have had several names though, lol. Email me in private and I will tell you, lol.

Kisses,
J

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

What part of MN did you live NYTSJulie? I also am from MN (St. Paul) til about '99. My friends and I (GG and TG's) hang out at the 90's, Southbeach, The Saloon, BrassRail, 1st Ave., Old Chicago, Uptown, Paisley Park and that club facing Brassrail which got closed I couldnt recall the name? :?

~Kisses.

HTG

I lived right downtown Mpls in Loring Park. I moved there in the summer of 98. I have been to all those clubs, and know them well.

I know all the local girls. I am not sure if we have met but if you ask some of the girls they all know me. I used to run an agency at one time, and all the trannys worked for me. This was be4 the Internet and the days when everyone would have ads in City Pages.

I have had several names though, lol. Email me in private and I will tell you, lol.

Kisses,
J

Kewl. I might have heard about you. Have you ever heard of Dax? He used to run a (well you know what)! LOL Most my tg friends worked for him at one time. Rayshawn (sp?), Tamika and a few Thai girls etc. I know citipages very well, But I read it to find hot guys in MN (I worked doing visual display merchandising at the Mall of America). :lol: I moved out of MN partially back in '99 and fully at 2000.

~Kisses.

HTG

[NYTSJulie]

What part of MN did you live NYTSJulie? I also am from MN (St. Paul) til about '99. My friends and I (GG and TG's) hang out at the 90's, Southbeach, The Saloon, BrassRail, 1st Ave., Old Chicago, Uptown, Paisley Park and that club facing Brassrail which got closed I couldnt recall the name? :?

~Kisses.

HTG

I lived right downtown Mpls in Loring Park. I moved there in the summer of 98. I have been to all those clubs, and know them well.

I know all the local girls. I am not sure if we have met but if you ask some of the girls they all know me. I used to run an agency at one time, and all the trannys worked for me. This was be4 the Internet and the days when everyone would have ads in City Pages.

I have had several names though, lol. Email me in private and I will tell you, lol.

Kisses,
J

Kewl. I might have heard about you. Have you ever heard of Dax? He used to run a (well you know what)! LOL Most my tg friends worked for him at one time. Rayshawn (sp?), Tamika and a few Thai girls etc. I know citipages very well, But I read it to find hot guys in MN (I worked doing visual display merchandising at the Mall of America). :lol: I moved out of MN partially back in '99 and fully at 2000.

~Kisses.

HTG

Dax, lol is that what he went by? I know several Tamika's. Do you still live in MN now?

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Here is an example. I had my name changed when I am 22 and I lived in MN at the time. I went to the DMV and got a new licence then did the SS office and all that.

I was living with my ex at the time and one night we got into a big screaming match. I can be a real loud girl, lol so one of my neighbors called them cops.

My ex was the typical "bad boy". A big muscle guy with a few tats and a goatee. When they showed there was 2 male cops and they were pretty hot. They treated me like the "poor woman" and were all protective of me.

They ran both of our ID's to make sure there was no warrants and when they ran mine they asked me "who is this ......" and they said a male name (I am not going to say my old name, lol). I was so taken back, I didnt know what to say other then the truth. I felt very awkward.

My licence says female with a female name, but in my record it says I have had a name change and what my old name used to be.

Now I have moved back to NY and have not gotten a new licence because I need to figure out a way for that little piece of information to drop off some how. I know I can never get rid of it entirely, but I do not want it on my DMV record where it is accessible to any cop who could pull me over.

I was pulled over here on Long Island last year. I was going 75 in a 40, lol. I like to drive fast. The cop was my age, and all into me. I lowered my top a bit as he came to my window. I didnt get a ticket but he handed me his card with his number instead. So after that situation I gathered that not all my info is accessible when I am in another state, since I still have a MN licence.

Funny you mentioned this. LOL Ive a story to share. So I went to midway was it? At the dmv office for an ID. So anyways, me and my friend got there filled out the applications and stuffs. The I handed the form to the old lady and went to take a seat (waiting for my name to get called). She called me not a minute after I gave her the form asking "What's this T?" LOL :lol: I explained to her that I was transgendered. Then she goes, "Oh I see" and then puts a dash below the "T" and made it an "F". LOL :lol: So my ID then said "F" but with a boys name on it! Lmao :lol: :wink:

~Kisses.

HTG

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

What part of MN did you live NYTSJulie? I also am from MN (St. Paul) til about '99. My friends and I (GG and TG's) hang out at the 90's, Southbeach, The Saloon, BrassRail, 1st Ave., Old Chicago, Uptown, Paisley Park and that club facing Brassrail which got closed I couldnt recall the name? :?

~Kisses.

HTG

I lived right downtown Mpls in Loring Park. I moved there in the summer of 98. I have been to all those clubs, and know them well.

I know all the local girls. I am not sure if we have met but if you ask some of the girls they all know me. I used to run an agency at one time, and all the trannys worked for me. This was be4 the Internet and the days when everyone would have ads in City Pages.

I have had several names though, lol. Email me in private and I will tell you, lol.

Kisses,
J

Kewl. I might have heard about you. Have you ever heard of Dax? He used to run a (well you know what)! LOL Most my tg friends worked for him at one time. Rayshawn (sp?), Tamika and a few Thai girls etc. I know citipages very well, But I read it to find hot guys in MN (I worked doing visual display merchandising at the Mall of America). :lol: I moved out of MN partially back in '99 and fully at 2000.

~Kisses.

HTG

Dax, lol is that what he went by? I know several Tamika's. Do you still live in MN now?

I believe he goes by Dax and associates or something like that. LOL I cannot recall all that much as I only met him once and it was at night (My friends brought me there trying to recruit me). I think he runs a TS massage parlor in his apt. somewhere in Mpls. LOL

Nope I dont live in MN now. I moved from MN to NJ and now LA. :P

~Kisses.

HTG

[NYTSJulie]

Dax it sounds familiar but what year was this, was it be4 I was there?

[NYTSJulie]

Here is an example. I had my name changed when I am 22 and I lived in MN at the time. I went to the DMV and got a new licence then did the SS office and all that.

I was living with my ex at the time and one night we got into a big screaming match. I can be a real loud girl, lol so one of my neighbors called them cops.

My ex was the typical "bad boy". A big muscle guy with a few tats and a goatee. When they showed there was 2 male cops and they were pretty hot. They treated me like the "poor woman" and were all protective of me.

They ran both of our ID's to make sure there was no warrants and when they ran mine they asked me "who is this ......" and they said a male name (I am not going to say my old name, lol). I was so taken back, I didnt know what to say other then the truth. I felt very awkward.

My licence says female with a female name, but in my record it says I have had a name change and what my old name used to be.

Now I have moved back to NY and have not gotten a new licence because I need to figure out a way for that little piece of information to drop off some how. I know I can never get rid of it entirely, but I do not want it on my DMV record where it is accessible to any cop who could pull me over.

I was pulled over here on Long Island last year. I was going 75 in a 40, lol. I like to drive fast. The cop was my age, and all into me. I lowered my top a bit as he came to my window. I didnt get a ticket but he handed me his card with his number instead. So after that situation I gathered that not all my info is accessible when I am in another state, since I still have a MN licence.

Funny you mentioned this. LOL Ive a story to share. So I went to midway was it? At the dmv office for an ID. So anyways, me and my friend got there filled out the applications and stuffs. The I handed the form to the old lady and went to take a seat (waiting for my name to get called). She called me not a minute after I gave her the form asking "What's this T?" LOL :lol: I explained to her that I was transgendered. Then she goes, "Oh I see" and then puts a dash below the "T" and made it an "F". LOL :lol: So my ID then said "F" but with a boys name on it! Lmao :lol: :wink:

~Kisses.

HTG

That's funny. When I did mine I went with the court ordered name change and left the sex blank and the woman filled in F. I think it was the DMV in Plymouth or maybe Golden Valley, it was somewhere in that area lol.

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Dax it sounds familiar but what year was this, was it be4 I was there?

Yep! Dax got arrested and went to jail actually. LOL :lol: :wink: It was between '94-98 If Im not mistaken. :wink:

~Kisses.

HTG

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Here is an example. I had my name changed when I am 22 and I lived in MN at the time. I went to the DMV and got a new licence then did the SS office and all that.

I was living with my ex at the time and one night we got into a big screaming match. I can be a real loud girl, lol so one of my neighbors called them cops.

My ex was the typical "bad boy". A big muscle guy with a few tats and a goatee. When they showed there was 2 male cops and they were pretty hot. They treated me like the "poor woman" and were all protective of me.

They ran both of our ID's to make sure there was no warrants and when they ran mine they asked me "who is this ......" and they said a male name (I am not going to say my old name, lol). I was so taken back, I didnt know what to say other then the truth. I felt very awkward.

My licence says female with a female name, but in my record it says I have had a name change and what my old name used to be.

Now I have moved back to NY and have not gotten a new licence because I need to figure out a way for that little piece of information to drop off some how. I know I can never get rid of it entirely, but I do not want it on my DMV record where it is accessible to any cop who could pull me over.

I was pulled over here on Long Island last year. I was going 75 in a 40, lol. I like to drive fast. The cop was my age, and all into me. I lowered my top a bit as he came to my window. I didnt get a ticket but he handed me his card with his number instead. So after that situation I gathered that not all my info is accessible when I am in another state, since I still have a MN licence.

Funny you mentioned this. LOL Ive a story to share. So I went to midway was it? At the dmv office for an ID. So anyways, me and my friend got there filled out the applications and stuffs. The I handed the form to the old lady and went to take a seat (waiting for my name to get called). She called me not a minute after I gave her the form asking "What's this T?" LOL :lol: I explained to her that I was transgendered. Then she goes, "Oh I see" and then puts a dash below the "T" and made it an "F". LOL :lol: So my ID then said "F" but with a boys name on it! Lmao :lol: :wink:

~Kisses.

HTG

That's funny. When I did mine I went with the court ordered name change and left the sex blank and the woman filled in F. I think it was the DMV in Plymouth or maybe Golden Valley, it was somewhere in that area lol.

Yeah I know! :lol: LOL I wasnt really trying to get an F as an ID then. I guess being young and dumb back then I wasnt even expecting being asked what the "T" was (That's actually what I put on all my job applications). Hehe I just thought Id had fun with it while filling up the forms. And I got the F without the name change is pretty stupid I guess. LOL I was going to send the ID back for name changes but I was already busy with work and then bf (who was alcoholic) and didnt had the time. :lol:

~Kisses.

HTG

[peggygee]

I was has prompted me to re-visit this thread while reading this one:

http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=430661#430661