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View Full Version : The "70-30" paradox.



olite71
02-22-2007, 10:23 AM
{for purposes of following argument "success" means
material success and/or money}.



Have you ever heard of the "70-30?" Of course not.
This is a construct of my own.


Basically, my theory is, that in a society, those that
are more able reap the benefits by exploiting those
that are less able. This is a fact. You arm yourself
with education, accidents of birth, etc... to compete
against others. I know that we like to say "the
market" to dehumanize the whole experience. But at
back of almost any endeavor, enterprise, venture, or
business are human beings....and the better man (or
woman) wins the "one-on-one" at the negotiation table
of life.

So...to my theory. For every winner there has to be a
loser. In a perfect world the ratio would be "50-50"
and not "70-30." But that isn't how it is. Due to
racism, governmental interference, luck...etc...the
"50-50" zero sum game is nothing more than a pipe
dream.

Instead a minorty gains an advantage over the
majority.... But still, removing all of the market
"interruptors" such as government and racism, you
arrive at the fact that to "fulfill the dream" the 30%
needs the 70% to exist.

As the Iowa grads among us know, Prof. Matsumoto used
to say "90% of you are here so that 10% of you can get
jobs."


Very funny quote, but I don't know that at the time we
realized that along with being funny, this
pronouncement was profound... For if any measure of
success in society were to be made graphic it would
looks like a cross section of sedemantary rock...the
rock on the top being on the top but only being on the
"top" relative to the fact that there is rock below...
Without the rock below, there is no "top."

[God Bless Matsumoto.]



In the same way, without the subjugation of those
below there is no "achievement." Because all
"achievement" in our society is measured in the
relative sense--i.e. he/she that wins wins because
they are adjudged to be "above" those that are
"below."


You may say at this point, "duh!"...And please excuse
my beating about the bush, but what I'm getting at is
a criticism at all those preachers, do-gooders and
what not who want our "community" to "excel" ONE AND
ALL when the very definition of "excellence" depends
on a large majority of failures.....

So when the hawkers looks at an audience of 100 and
spurs them toward excellence, the only way that some
of them will achieve excellence is if some of them are
failures.


This is a problematic construct of mine.... When you
raise your own kids you want them to be successful,
but the only way they can be successful is if other
kids are failures...(in the grand scheme). Maybe you
don't think about that, the same way you don't think
about how the pig was slaughtered when you eat a pork
chop--and that's fine..we need to cope.

But the fact of the matter is, there is no way around
it...to achieve grand success in life you need
failures around you......If everybody were a
success...well there's no such thing, unless you know
of a company where everybody from janitor to CEO earns
the same compensation.


Now to reiterate, I find nothing wrong with what I
think is a law as true as the law of gravity...what I
find wrong is the preaching to ALL people of the idea
that we can "ALL" be successful. Not possible--unless
we start defining "success" as something other than
rank, income, and prestige. (And that's how I've been
defining success for the purpose of this essay).

As for the ramifications of this construct, I say
"70-30" because I belive that is a perfect ratio to
keep a given civilization running....In places like
Venzuela, it's probably more like 90-10 or worse... In
the end what any humanist would strive for is
"equality" but the fact is some people are just more
clever than others and they will take their advantages
as they see them.

The genius of the United States in my book is that its
laws, its customs, its way of being lends itself to
accomadating a ratio of 70-30 or better.... But the
fact remains you cannot be successful unless you can
maximize your return by exploiting (and this is not a
bad word--in my sense it means extracting a yield)
returns from another.

70-30 in my mind is a tolerable equilibrium for a
modern society... But please....no "chicken in every
pot" rhetoric. Behind every success is two or three
failures, and that's the law of the land, so long as
money is our god---which it was, is, and ever shall be
from the way I see things.

TeeKay
02-23-2007, 04:41 AM
Thought provoking post but I define success much more broadly so I am able to allow for a much greater portion to be "successful."

I too am a Hawkeye and was in Prof Matsumoto's Con Law class. One of my favorite professors!

I'm pretty new to the TGirl world but very interested so far. I hope you fare well.

Aurora
02-23-2007, 06:12 AM
70-30 in my mind is a tolerable equilibrium for a
modern society... But please....no "chicken in every
pot" rhetoric. Behind every success is two or three
failures, and that's the law of the land, so long as
money is our god---which it was, is, and ever shall be
from the way I see things.

What do you define as success? 100k a year? Many of us are perfectly happy with a much smaller amount of income. I'd much rather have an income closer to the median doing what I love than be highly compensated.

TSCURIOUS
02-23-2007, 06:37 AM
Wheww... I am a total Republican (Fiscal) and what olite71 wrote is nonsense. I left a VP of Sales job because it was not making me a person I wanted to be (asshole = corp life) I left, started my own business and now make well over 100K - working about 25 hours a week. I never exploited anyone either!
Stop thinking about society, stop being a conspiracy theorist, who cares - and get a job doing what you love.
The only motivation anyone needs is the bottom line of your checkbook!
I have material success, financial success, and I'm happy!
Then be happy with your food stamps!

Kriss
02-23-2007, 08:21 AM
But the fact of the matter is, there is no way around it...to achieve grand success in life you need failures around you......If everybody were a
success...well there's no such thing


Interesting idea, must disagree with the above statement. The world has many communities that prosper without the oppression you depict. Was this whole thread just a build up to that Venezuela jibe?
Your ideal career is ......
A.Slave trader
B.Drug dealer
C.Mr Burns

olite71
02-24-2007, 09:24 AM
Thanks for the comments. I'm just throwing a theory out there and I want feedback. I haven't totally tweaked it yet.

It should be understood (and maybe i didn't make it totally clear) that I do not equate money with happiness and i do not equate success with money. Rather I believe that the way things work 30% of the world will wind up with 70% of the money and 70% of the world will wind up with the other 30%.


Those that don't make money their god need not worry about this theory. Those that do, know it well. Those that don't think either way are the ones I'm interested in....because the posters here notwithstanding, the vast majority of our society is obsessed with money and the things that money buy.

BrendaQG
02-24-2007, 01:22 PM
Interesting place to choose for discussing ecomomics.

The contruct of yours is wrong. It makes it sound as if there was some permanence to being "on top" and whatnot. Life does not work that way. Your on top one day with seats on the exchange. Then Dan Akroyd and Eddie Murphy out manuver you in the Frozen concentrated orange juice market. Next thing you know you need some african guy to give you money because you're both poor. (see the movies "Trading Places" and "Comming to America" Funny).

Real life is cyclic. More like the layers of water in the ocean. There still has to be a bottom and a top, achievers and loosers. However all it takes to loose is a mistake an error. All it may take to win is an opportunity.

My point is that you have to build in the dynamics of socio-economic status or your model will not predict a thing.

jedimaster
02-24-2007, 07:12 PM
well, olite, first i found your essay very captivating, and to some point you're right, but as you say, you are constructing on the basis of YOUR own definition of success, and even if it is your own, many of us might still find it a rather poor and closed definition.

yes, there are people who are happy with an income that many "succesful" or even not succesful people would define as "low".

success, even as a synonym of "money", is always a relative concept... as are the concepts of "wealth", "wellbeing", "happiness", and so on.

while it IS true that there is a great deal of people (yes, even gigantic organizations are in the end just people with lives and dreams and goals and appetites), who exploit the less able in order to amass wealth, it is also possible --and it does happen-- that other people amass their wealth by just producing value and selling it at a fair rate... without having to exploit nobody.

that would be my ideal of a successful productive career and life.

i'm in the design and advertising business... i have my own small company (well not small, more like tiny) and i feel lucky to not have to depend on a corporation and to get to be my own boss and my own everything...

for a lot of people, this is just not an option, and for many of these, they just choose this because this is how they like to live... you know: following orders from 9 to 5 in a gray cubicle for 30 years until you retire... and not having to worry about anything else.

it is a very complex issue...

i dont think that is is possible for EVERYONE to win... and i dont think everyone WANTS to win either... what one person calls "being ok", others would call "failure".

me, well... i personally despise the system of "winners VS losers".

i just think that there should be, and can be, balance, and fair opportunities for everyone... AS LONG AS YOU ARE ABLE AND ASSUME THE RESPONSABILITY FOR YOUR OWN LIFE.

sadly, many many people are not happy because they just dont want to be. and many many other people call those "unhappy" people "losers". be it because of money, lifestyle, health, whatever... but mostly because of money.

and another thing:

I live in Venezuela... and i found a bit offensive when you said "In places like Venezuela, it's probably more like 90-10 or worse..."... but i have to admit that you might be right to a certain extent... not totally right, but you have a point... allthough that 90-10 ratio, i think, would have been more accurately applied to countries in Africa or Asia... i don't know... but Venezuela, i don't know exactly where you get those numbers, maybe your right, but that's not what i see in the streets... yes we have many problems, yes there balance is tilted towards the "rich", or powerful, as it is in every nation in the world... but i think things are not that bad here...

well... not from MY point of view, and i'm not poor, nor rich... and I DO care about money and money is very important in MY definition of success... but MY theory... well my own theory is one more based on intellectual and psychological principles and variants, more than merely financial.

HEY! at least you made me think for a while.

HornieHubbieinCT
02-24-2007, 08:28 PM
Actually, this economic/socialogic idea is not so original. It was one of the precepts behind the colonial era, where it functioned to assuage the consciences of the British, French, et al. How else to explain the subjagation of 70% of the world, other than the superiority of the remaining 30%? Consider this, from a passage in a UN document partaining to South African Apartied:

In late-colonial societies, small extractive / protomanufacturing sectors coexisted with traditional sectors and it was assumed that the growth of the small extractive sector would absorb and transform the traditional sector. Dependency theory in the ‘60s and ‘70s transformed the concept of dualism both qualitatively and spatially: the economicallyadvanced core and the dependent periphery were seen as exploitative and causal, with the growth of the former dependent on continued underdevelopment of the latter. The theory also recognised the existence of multiple states of dependency, both within and between economies. The after-effects of this is currently experienced in South Africa and is described as the ‘70/30 society’ where the majority of the population is subject to longterm unproductive and non-causal dependence on state welfare whose funds are generated by strong per capita growth accelerated by globalisation of production, which in turn, increases income disparities
(1).This means an ever -widening gap between the haves and the have-nots.

The perniciousness of this idea is that it takes an obvious fact, that wealth and power is concentrated in the hands of minority and extrapolates it into a law a of nature. One of the triumphs of America is that, while recognizing this concept, we also beleive that there is a permeablity in the sense that if one smart, or lucky, one can join the fortunate 30%. Enshrining this idea in the way that olite71 appears to, has the unfortunate effect of working against the idea of permeability and convincing people that they are either one of the 70% or one of the 30%, and their social position in immutable.

HH

Kriss
02-24-2007, 11:08 PM
5% of people in this country run the fuckin show and have what we call old money...family money...

J is spot on with the point about "old money". This wealth is the backbone of our 'western' societies but it is important to remember where that money comes from. Tiny countries like England, Belgium, Netherlands with few natural resources have amassed hugely disproportionate wealth by colonising and exploiting. This "old money" is the profit from hundreds of years of invasion, slavery and theft. We got rich from Sugar, coffee, tea and opium plantations. Gold, diamonds, oil and mineral wealth. If there is a resource we will exploit it. It's still going on , sometimes within the law, sometimes not. It never ceases to amaze me when people here in U.K. or Holland complain about immigrants coming in to "sponge off" the country's wealth. Do they think we got rich from selling Yorkshire coal or a few copper mines in Cornwall? The "old money" here is from African gold, Indian tea, Indonesian coffee, Jamaican bauxite, basically it's all colonial money or spoils of war.

Nice to hear from a real venezuelan on the subject. I know nothing really of the situation there. Sure I see the news but it seems there is a lot of propaganda or one sided coverage here in U.K. so I take everything with a pinch of salt.