Off Off topic. Windows Vista. M$ hasn't paid me.

[BrendaQG]

Well I am sure you have heard all of the breathless store bought reports on how great windows Vista is. Well if you havent you will soon.

I have had the beta test version of vista for month's now. I personally bought windows Vista myself (to upgrade and not loose my data when the beta's expire, too much to backup). Allow me to warn the rest of you off of windows vista.

My first beef is that by now there are third party additions to windows XP that can do most of the important things windows Vista does. In userspace the abiulity to serach the computer for any type of file from a simple search box is nothing new. Google desktop has had such ability for a long time.

My second beef is that if you have one of those nify AMD 64 64 bit dual core processors....windows Vista ULtimate is the ONLY windows that can really take full advantage of that processor. Windows xp X64 could do it...but it lacks device drivers. Linux can do it, it has the device drivers, but then lots of other things will not work. ( I would like to be able to watch you tube while my computer is crunnching my numbers in mathematica. no 64 bit flash plugin. :-( ). So I have to shell out a further $300 with tax!

My third beef with it is that software that is not so old has "compatibility issues". Mozilla fire fox has such issues, Most of my games have those issues. Heck none of the anti virus software I had works with this os.

My fourth beef is that the more affordable versions are stripped to the point where it seems one is just buying XP all over again.

My fith and final beef is.....It is not all that different under the hood from XP! When one drills down to the low level menu's this is just windoww XP with a new suit! Oh sure it does make some things more convinient and it is prettier. But this is just the same old windows. Nothing special at all. Nothing worth $300 for the top shelf "ultimate version"

Thumbs down. DO NOT BUY VISTA UNLESS IT COMES WITH A NEW PC.!

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

it's a very shameful copy of OS X IMO

and I'm in the same boat as you with the 64 bit proc. Microsoft fucked up once again, to think that this shit costs more than the shocks plus labor on my car (Ultimate) is sad.....................

nonetheless we all know you never buy something when it first comes out, that's what the simps are for

give it a year maybe 2, till then enjoy XP who knows how many years they will keep on supporting it

[suckseed]

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/living/16555680.htm

[BrendaQG]

Yes and now OSX is imitating Linux/unix after having done so much to try and not be Linux/unix. Look at these revolutonary new features... Like separate vitual desktop spaces. OoohhhAhhh. (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/spaces.html)

:-? Just makes me want to run out and buy into a whole new platform.

Edited to add. You know all these peole steal so freely from each other....Piracy seems to not seem so wrong. (not that I would ever do that).

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

I agree to a point, I think the Apple OS platform gives alot of non programmers the opportunity to jump into the pc world without needing to know simple programming code. The beauty & curse of UNIX/LINUX has always been the command line. Beauty for creators & visionaries, a curse for the pc illiterate.

[BrendaQG]

True that. True that. Perhaps as more people become literatin in computers that will not be such a big deal.

[Vicki Richter]

Well I am going to disagree.

First, if you have a dual core processor like the Core 2 or AMD, the OS itself of the cheaper versions will recognize the dual core's just like XP does. The higher end enables 64 bit computing, but that is just a lame buzzword that really means nothing to the average consumer. For example, who out there really needs MORE than 4 gigabytes of memory? I doubt there is more than 2 people here who really need that.

The other advantage of 64 bit is getting data in bigger chunks. This can have a performance benefit, but it's not huge.

That said, the biggest benefit of the dual core processors is the dual processing. I believe all versions of Vista support dual processing.

V

[BrendaQG]

Right. However not all versions of it support 64 bit. Look at the boxes down at your local computer store or google it. You need windows Vista Ultimate to get 64 bit dual core processing.

Going from RC1 32 bit to final version 64 bit. my windows processor rating went from 2.9 million calculations per second to 4.1 million calculations per second. Double. But then that was RC1 not the final version.

I recall you like MTW II I found that the UI "Aero glass" was so demanding that disabling it speed up Medieval considerably. :-)

[Vicki Richter]

2.9 to 4.1 isn't double... It is more like 34% or so.

[Realgirls4me]

If you have the money, save yourself all the friggin' PC headaches and buy a new Imac. Get the best of both worlds (Where have I heard that line before?).

From the WSJ's Walter S Mossberg Technical Column of January 19th:

Q:I am a Windows user who would like to buy a Macintosh but still keep my PC and work in both systems. Is there any way to avoid bankrupting myself by buying the same software on both systems?

A: Sure. Just use the machines for different purposes, and keep each stocked only with the software for those purposes. For instance, because it suffers from essentially no viruses and spyware, you might use the Mac for Web surfing and emailing -- through its excellent built-in software -- and dedicate the older Windows machine to software that's available only on Windows, or where the Windows version beats the Mac version, such as Quicken.

The Mac comes with a much richer collection of bundled software than a typical Windows PC does. For instance, its included iLife suite includes photo, video, music, Web-site creation and DVD-burning software that are hard to match on Windows, even if you spend extra. The new Windows Vista closes this gap some, but not completely. And the Mac has lots of nice little touches. For instance, without any additional software, a Mac can save any document or Web page as an Adobe PDF file, readable by any computer.

On the other hand, Windows offers many more niche or specialty programs, such as small-business software, and programs such as WordPerfect and Microsoft Access that some businesses and professional firms rely upon. And Windows kills the Mac on games.

The only software you might need to replicate on both platforms is Microsoft Office, which comes in versions for both. You can buy the Mac version for about $150.




...I think my last PowerMac crashed, what, twice in 10 years of service, and this G-5, which I've had since November of 2005, has yet to crash.


.

[BrendaQG]

@ Vicky
Touche. though I may have quoted those numbers wrong. 34% is still allot.

@ Real girls 4 me.

I dual boot linux. Why not go liux all the way? Because I use 64 bit and 64 bit support is still spotty in terms of internet applications. Such as no 64 bit flash, or 64 bit java plugin. It does my killer app, Mathematica, beautifully.

[kukm4]

Vista upgrade invalidates your XP key

http://www.tomcoyote.org/tech/vista-upgrade-invalidates-your-xp-key/74/

[DHaswood]

Did you see the CNN interview of Bill Gates regarding Vista?

CNN: "Vista looks like OS X. Did you go for a more 'Mac look' this time Bill?"
Bill: "No, no. With Vista we really innovated. You can edit pictures and movies...and send files over the Internet" WHAT THE FUCK?

The point here is to STOP giving Micosoft money. Dont be a bunch of Lemmings. Bill Gates himself barely held a straight face denying the blatent copy of OS X. Its CRIMINAL.

The BIGGEST software company in the world cant even design thier OS without stealing 70% of it? I am really dissapointed and saddened by the lack of talent and vision in Redmond.

You have MUCH better offerings out there now guys. Its 2007 for god's sakes.

Go buy OS X
Go buy Linux


OS X costs 100 bucks.
Vista costs between 128 and 400 bucks.
Linux can be FREE.

[Fox]

Kinda surprised no one mentioned the Vista EULA lol.

[Matthias Powerbomb]

From what I've read so far, Vista seems to have a lot of upgrades and general reworking of the audio engine, for the better. XP was great, but Vista seems to be really on the ball with audio. I'm a musician and a recording engineer and I work with PC's, so this is a good thing for me. The cosmetic things don't really matter to me. I put things back to the Win98 look anyway to save recources. Better driver handling, individual volume controls per app, putting audio apps over everything else in terms of processor use, things like this will make any audio engineer's life easier. I'm going to be checking it out more thoroughly soon to see if it lives up to what I've read. Hopefully it measures up.

[Quinn]

Two separate friends I know have given Vista a try, and both have had huge problems with the upgrade. Frankly, given Microsoft's poor track record with product releases, this doesn't come as a surprise.

-Quinn

[suckseed]

I feel like I've got the best of both worlds right now. For the past six years I've used my Mac G4 with Cubase. But then I got a deal on a Dell server (400SC) that all these musicians were raving about for it's reliabilty and silent operation. It runs Nuendo, Tracktion and Live. But they warned me not to risk putting it onto a network. So i sold the G4 and bought a slightly used mac mini off craigslist for $400. This thing kicks ass, and I've eaten sandwiches bigger than this computer. So now i'm cross-platform and have two great computers for $800. Staying off the leading edge avoids the expense of buying new, and the frustration of buggy apps.

[Coroner]

Two separate friends I know have given Vista a try, and both have had huge problems with the upgrade. Frankly, given Microsoft's poor track record with product releases, this doesn't come as a surprise.

-Quinn

it still looks and works like the beta version. nothing special, design is the only small fascination but it can´t top XP for now. I don´t know, hope they release some updates, otherwise, it ends up in my garbage can....

[peggygee]

@ Vicky

I dual boot linux. Why not go liux all the way? Because I use 64 bit and 64 bit support is still spotty in terms of internet applications. Such as no 64 bit flash, or 64 bit java plugin. It does my killer app, Mathematica, beautifully.

I also utilize a number of platforms with XP, Linux and 2003 Server
on one of my laptops. Then in my personal network I also have a
Mac box, and a broken Unix box, as well as a coupla server and XP
boxes.

My plan for world domination procedes unabated :twisted:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/magi43/pinky_and_the_brain_l.jpg

[Solitary Brother]

I feel like I've got the best of both worlds right now. For the past six years I've used my Mac G4 with Cubase. But then I got a deal on a Dell server (400SC) that all these musicians were raving about for it's reliabilty and silent operation. It runs Nuendo, Tracktion and Live. But they warned me not to risk putting it onto a network. So i sold the G4 and bought a slightly used mac mini off craigslist for $400. This thing kicks ass, and I've eaten sandwiches bigger than this computer. So now i'm cross-platform and have two great computers for $800. Staying off the leading edge avoids the expense of buying new, and the frustration of buggy apps.

So you run LIVE huh?
Im just learning it now.
Im kinda worried that its Midi capabilities WONT be as robust as what I am use to.
For instance....quantizing......Im coming from Digital Performer and the quantize templates for LIVE seem kinda weak.
Im in the middle of deciding whether to upgrade to LIVE 6 or Digital Performer 5.

Any advice?

[BlackAdder]

From a gaming point of view, which is what me and most of my friends do...

Vista is a complete piece of garbage...

The only way its going to fly is if people are forced into it by not supporting XP anymore or by bribing the gaming companies into only making Vista versions of games.

Our machines are already in the ~2500 range...none of us are going to re-configure our machines to run that peice of crap.

[muhmuh]

My third beef with it is that software that is not so old has "compatibility issues". Mozilla fire fox has such issues, Most of my games have those issues. Heck none of the anti virus software I had works with this os.

i pretty much agree with you on most points but on this one i think youre wrong (and on the price too... buy it in europe it costs twice as much)
if im not mistaken moch of these "incompatibilities" stem from vista _finally_ trying to not force you to be logged in with root rights all the time which most programms still rely on


The beauty & curse of UNIX/LINUX has always been the command line.

yes and no... the main curse of linux atm is hardware auto detection which is simply rubbish... i really cant be bothered to look up my monitors vertical frequency range to manually edit my xconf file to get the same effect i get by simply plugging it into my graphics card on windows


Customers who purchased Dual-Core or Hyperthreading based processors already knew that Windows 2000 couldn't use it either.

rubbish 2k supports anything from 2 (on pro) up to 32 processors on datacenter


The higher end enables 64 bit computing, but that is just a lame buzzword that really means nothing to the average consumer.

sooner or later sim gamers will see the benefit of physics done in 64 bit


For example, who out there really needs MORE than 4 gigabytes of memory?

i know a guy who managed to use up some 6 gigs of rams regularly with his matrices


That said, the biggest benefit of the dual core processors is the dual processing. I believe all versions of Vista support dual processing.

like i said earlier... been fully supported for 7 years now on a desktop useable system


From what I've read so far, Vista seems to have a lot of upgrades and general reworking of the audio engine, for the better. XP was great, but Vista seems to be really on the ball with audio. I'm a musician and a recording engineer and I work with PC's, so this is a good thing for me. The cosmetic things don't really matter to me. I put things back to the Win98 look anyway to save recources. Better driver handling, individual volume controls per app, putting audio apps over everything else in terms of processor use, things like this will make any audio engineer's life easier. I'm going to be checking it out more thoroughly soon to see if it lives up to what I've read. Hopefully it measures up.

from what ive seen so far the main change in vistas audio capabilities is added delay of at least 50ms

[muhmuh]

Windows 2000 Professional [...] It supports up to two processors

Windows 2000 Datacenter Server [...] A Pentium-class CPU at 400 MHz or higher - up to 32 are supported in one machine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_2000

its a server os of course it supports multiple cores