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chefmike
11-24-2006, 07:06 PM
What is the point of Iraq deaths?
November 24, 2006

My mother used to tell me when I was very young a story about the last American to die on Nov. 11, 1918, at 10:59 in the morning. It was an urban folk tale of that era, doubtless, though indeed there was an American who was the last victim of the war. His death was pointless, that was the sentimental irony of the story. But so was the death of everyone else who died in that absurd, insane mass murder. The "Great Powers" of Europe stumbled into the war because of a toxic mix of arrogance and ignorance and couldn't find a way out of it. Nothing was settled, the war went into a recess to be renewed 20 years later with even more demonic fury.
I found myself pondering as I watched the heartbreaking Veterans Day ceremonies on television, what the government will tell the family -- parents, spouse, children -- of the last American to die in Iraq. Or the families of all the men and women who have died there. What was the point in their deaths? They fought bravely for their country. They did their duty. They will be missed. Their courage is an honor to their sacrifice. That should be enough and that's all there is.

They died defending American freedom? But American freedom was never at issue. They died to protect the country from weapons of mass destruction, to create a democracy in the midst of the Arab world, to win a victory that would enhance American credibility, to keep faith with those who had already died, to get rid of Saddam Hussein, because the president said it was the right thing to do, because Iraq was the central front in the war or terror?

Or should they be told the real truth? Their young person died because of the arrogance and the ignorance of the American government, because of mistakes and blunders, because some of our leaders thought the war was a good thing, because it would take pressure off of Israel, because of Arab oil.

What can we say to the additional survivors between now and the day the last American dies there, all those lives erased in a lost war our leaders could not end? Should we tell them what Henry Kissinger said of Vietnam casualties after President Nixon took office -- they died in the name of American credibility?

Every time I hear on the radio of new casualties or see bereaved families on television, or open newspapers with massed photos of those who have died, I want to scream "all these losses, all this suffering, all these shattered families were unnecessary." I sense from a great distance the pain and the grief.

President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney killed them.

Most Americans agree that the war was mistaken in its inception and mismanaged in its execution. If some of that majority do not also feel the grief and the pain and the rage, the only reason is that they have hardened their hearts in the name of patriotism or party loyalty or the words of the bible. God have mercy on those with hard hearts.

The issue now is whether the new coalition of leaders can find the quickest, safest way out. We must hope and pray that they can, that the hubris that led the country into the war will not prevent us from getting out.

Will God punish the United States for all the deaths, both Iraqi and American? I don't believe that God works that way. However, our intervention in that chaotic, broken country will certainly have created hundreds, perhaps thousands of would-be martyrs who will seek vengeance. We will have brought it on ourselves.

God forgive us for the war, especially those who voted for it in 2004, and especially the pundits, the commentators, the editorial writers who supported the war until almost the last moment and are still willing to accept more casualties so this country and its president can escape with some dignity.

It's a shame there will be no war crimes trials.



http://www.suntimes.com/news/greeley/147970,CST-EDT-GREEL24.article

yodajazz
11-24-2006, 08:18 PM
Amen brother! Many of us were against the war before it even began. But they convinced a majority by lying, implying there was a direct relationship to 9-11. It should be now obvious to most now, that Saddam Hussein had a full time job ruling his country with his minority group in power, and a powerful enemy next door (Iran).

But I still go back and look at the fact that they were will to put Monica Lewinsky's mother in jail, but today no one's responsible for the consequence of needless war.

The war does have many natural consequences; such as the rise of hate from those affected by needless deaths. But there is another that many people don't talk about. Even if the situation is relsoved quickly and the the troops return home, you have hundreds of thousand of people return to live with who lived through hell. Some wont be able to get the hell out of their minds and hearts.

As a veteren, I heard some shit from someone returning from Viet Nam, I never told anyone the story, not even my wife, and it has been 30 years since I heard it. War brings out the best and the absolute worst in humans. It is a crime to bring on for anything other than the last resort.

suckseed
11-24-2006, 09:08 PM
Thanks to advances in mobile medical technology, if not in diplomacy or intelligence, at least we;ve been able to keep alive people even after they've suffered injuries considered not survivable just a few years ago. So, we can look forward to the sight of a lot of veterans of this war with missing limbs and worse, as a reminder of what a stupid, arrogant and mismanaged debacle the neocons engineered.
What surprises me in all this - you'd think a bunch of hawks with all this awesome power, military strategists, etc., would go in armed and armored to the teeth and knowing exactly what to do. Anyone ever read how they let a a massive explosives cache get completely ransacked, around the time the antiquities were carted away? I'm sure many of our - and their - casualties came from that one place.
I was always opposed to the war - but acknowledged that I might not have all the facts. Well, the facts are in - these guys were about as well coordinated as a bunch of monkeys fucking a football. Why the fuck do they even bother?
"Hey, Paw, there's a big ol hornet's nest up in the barn."
"Oh yeah? Leave it to me - I'll throw some pinecones at it."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDtkNCSISYo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkqrI3IibYI

lewdguppy
11-24-2006, 09:50 PM
Wise words.

you know what really stumped me?
apart from our spineless European 'so called leaders' (I'm European btw and pretty pissed off about it) smoochin' up to the Chimpster and ignoring the will of the people:
all those REP chickenhawks clamoring for war and not a single one (either R or D) who ever was a veteran or has kids enlisted in the US army, not 1 (!!).
the ones who HAVE been to war or have kids (or themselves) serving the army/navy/airforce all were against this war from day #1....so this war's been run by the politicians, the willfully ignorant draftdodgers (like Dubya) and the coorporate executives using the poor and the uneducated as cannonfodder.

today Dubya finally made it to Vietnam. wearing a 3 piece suit and surrounded by a 1000 secret servive agents. the coward.

the space around the White House should look like that big place in Kiev (Ukraine) when hundreds of thousants protestors brought the government down, peacefully. where is the movement??

if something like that doesn't happen soon the nuclear reactors of Iran will be bombed next spring. and the shit that's happening in Afghanistan or the bloodbath in Irak will look like a teaparty next to the sequal of that stupidity.....don't think the bloodthirsty McSmirk will stop his lust for Armageddon just because of the 2006 electionresults, no way.

EdelweissFan
11-24-2006, 09:53 PM
Bush may be the first president to lose two wars. He may be even stupid enough to be the first president to lose three wars, if he bombs Iran as he seems desperate to do before he leaves office.

The Pentagon, Kissinger and other experts have now publicly stated that the Iraq war is unwinnable. But equally troubling, many are saying that Afghanistan is in almost as bad condition as Iraq, with the US holding Kabul and some other cities, and Karzai being little more than the mayor of Kabul. If Bush bombs Iran, that will provoke such fury in the Muslim world, that our positions in Iraq and Afghanistan could well be overrun.

As for the conclusion of the article about war crimes trials, I wouldn't write them off yet. They may be our only way out in the end.

latrix67
11-24-2006, 10:53 PM
What get's my goat as a Ex-Serviceman here in the UK,is that Phony Tony bLair & the Liebour party followed Dubya like a blind puppy.Today we have lost another British Soldier in Iraq,six of the seven Military hospitals here in the UK have closed,with the last due to be sold off later this year.
Now the majority of British public & indeed a large percentage of the Military want out of Iraq & the Stan & the belief is we should never have commited our forces without concrete evidence.
A website I go on (ChefMike,you know which one I mean) which is a 'unnoficial' Army one is constantly having threads about the deaths of our troops on there & we are constantly posting RIP's on it.
Not only tho does the deaths of servicemen & women sadden me but also the bloodshed of innocent civilians as well.Personally & from a military point of viewI can see the 'conflict' going on for years to come.This is turning out to be the Vietnam of the 21st centurary*

*I use the Vietnam referance as a point & in no way do I wish to cause offence to anyone who lost loved ones in that war.
L67