Komm, Kamala, Komm and Save the Nation!

[Stavros]

So far, not so good. It could be a deliberate smear campaign by those who don't support the Democrats at any time -eg, the Telegraph article linked via Yahoo- or those who think she is in a thankless job but could nevertheless make more of her status to reach out to the people she needs if she is the nominee in 2024 -but is this a big IF? I don't know much about her other than what I read in the press, so I wonder what other people think? But as I said in another post, if she is the nominee in 2024 Trump's disciples will consider his success a 'slam dunk'.

https://news.yahoo.com/future-president-kamala-harris-now-121553773.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

https://news.yahoo.com/democrats-kamala-harris-problem-155913380.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAM1SZOZ0oM2gjRuKUIbA2YfUyqBu vFNz8e4hcTsOvTTnLhhoyC2MPSoJovGmvPJBBwWoXVSkXyo0Ff sFJA6Khj4ciEsy88pwGIvhrSFY1b4-yKAgIY-YyStN_wyIgf_bo0F3YVzbAkb7OvQC68Prbw05Q7HicetLxpJV_ RSseiYg

My post is a reference to JS Bach's Cantata, linked here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzWJsRjanC4

[Stavros]

The articles on Harris continue to cast doubt on her as a politician, and her potential ascendancy to the White House as President.

On the one hand, as Vice-President she will never have the profile of the 'Boss', and if given tasks, such as dealing with illegal immigration and border control that cannot be resolved without significant policy agreements with the Central American states where most of the immigrants come from, it is either a thankless task, or one that will take years to achieve.

On the other hand, the changes taking place to US society that give non-White non-Christians the edge in urban conurbations, suggests that Harris has a 'natural' constituency of voters who look like her, identify with her personal history, and could warm to her if she has the right policy options that appeal to them, as well as a broad section of the US population including the 'White' blue collar and Middle Class voters Democrats tend to rely on.

Some reports suggest the problem is her, that she is difficult to work with and does not inspire much personal loyalty, that she regularly changes her staff. The media does her no favours being mostly anti-Democrat, while the opportunities for the pro-Republican media to denigrate her for reasons that have nothing to do with her politics would guaranteee an ugly, nasty campaign were she to run for the White House.

I think she needs to carve out a space for herself which promotes popular policies and presents her as a competent manager. But does she have both to work with?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60061473

[blackchubby38]

The articles on Harris continue to cast doubt on her as a politician, and her potential ascendancy to the White House as President.

On the one hand, as Vice-President she will never have the profile of the 'Boss', and if given tasks, such as dealing with illegal immigration and border control that cannot be resolved without significant policy agreements with the Central American states where most of the immigrants come from, it is either a thankless task, or one that will take years to achieve.

On the other hand, the changes taking place to US society that give non-White non-Christians the edge in urban conurbations, suggests that Harris has a 'natural' constituency of voters who look like her, identify with her personal history, and could warm to her if she has the right policy options that appeal to them, as well as a broad section of the US population including the 'White' blue collar and Middle Class voters Democrats tend to rely on.

Some reports suggest the problem is her, that she is difficult to work with and does not inspire much personal loyalty, that she regularly changes her staff. The media does her no favours being mostly anti-Democrat, while the opportunities for the pro-Republican media to denigrate her for reasons that have nothing to do with her politics would guaranteee an ugly, nasty campaign were she to run for the White House.

I think she needs to carve out a space for herself which promotes popular policies and presents her as a competent manager. But does she have both to work with?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60061473

Do you honestly believe that media is anti-Democrat?

[Stavros]

Do you honestly believe that media is anti-Democrat?

A throwaway comment, but there is probably more anti-Harris and critical press on Biden here than in the US. It might not work in the US but the media scene there is confusing as I doubt most Americans get their news from the Times, Post and CNN. But thanks anyway for not responding to the purpose of the thread, which apart from your post has excited zero comment, as in your case none at all on Harris.

I guess she is doomed. Like her country.

[thombergeron]

Any serious consideration of the careers of black women politicians will reveal a pretty obvious double standard. It's a double standard for women in general, but it's particularly egregious in the cases of women like Kamala Harris or Maxine Waters. There is no detail of Kamala Harris's career and personality that wouldn't be celebrated if she were a man, and especially if she were a white man.

This is true across the political spectrum. Barbara Lee has been a stronger and more consistent advocate of progressive governance than Bernie Sanders could hope to be. But a black woman in this country would never garner anything even close to the kind of national cult-like following that Bernie enjoys with his banal retread of progressivism.

Here's the kind of leader Kamala Harris is. In her first race for elected office, she unseated a two-term DA, who was a third-generation SF politician. Hallinan had the backing of police unions. One of Harris's signature issues was her opposition to the death penalty. One of her first cases as DA was against a gang member who killed a plainclothes police officer with an AK-47. At Officer Espinoza's funeral, newly elected US Senator Dianne Feinstein publicly chided Harris, who was present, for not pursuing the death penalty in the case, to raucous applause from the police officers present. Harris put the killer away for life without parole and her consequent two terms as SF DA are considered some of the most successful in city history.

[Stavros]

Thanks, thombergon, for an alternative view on Harris. My problem is that not being in the US I don't know how she is viewed generally, as I don't know where most people get their news from. There are obvious print media stars, though I doubt most Americans read the NYT or the Post, either because they don't want to subscribe online or just don't read newspapers, and other than Fox News, CNN, and the other well know broadcasters, I assume a lot of people get news from local tv and radio stations, which in some States I assume are hostile to Democrats, but I just don't know. I also know nothing about social media such as Facebook and how influential it is.

Also, while the coverage here is often about the disappointment of the Biden administration so far, it seems to me that his aim to restore a bi-partisan Congress is doomed because the Republican Party, with or without Trump, abandoned bi-partisan politics in favour of a sectarian conflict that to me is leading the US into a conflict from which there is no simple resolution. On that basis, I can see Harris, if she has a good year in policy terms, building enough support to win the nomination, but in a country so divided and wracked by 'revisions' to the electoral system that results are questioned, but by Democrats rather than Republicans. We cannot yet know how effective the voter suppression mechanisms are going to be in States like Texas, I think the predictions suggest that in theory Harris or the Democrat nominee in 2024 could win the popular vote but lose in the Electoral College.

Either way, yes, she gets a hard time in the media, but must also up her game if she is serious about 2024.

[blackchubby38]

A throwaway comment, but there is probably more anti-Harris and critical press on Biden here than in the US. It might not work in the US but the media scene there is confusing as I doubt most Americans get their news from the Times, Post and CNN. But thanks anyway for not responding to the purpose of the thread, which apart from your post has excited zero comment, as in your case none at all on Harris.

I guess she is doomed. Like her country.

Oh, I'm sorry I didn't realize I had to respond to the purpose of the thread. Well then allow me to retort.

First, I think many Americans do get their news from the Times, Post, and CNN. Although when it comes to CNN, that is not always a good thing.

As for Kamala Harris.

Is it possible that the criticisms Harris has been receiving are based in racism and misogyny? Absolutely. I would be naïve to think that female politicians and especially minority ones at that must deal with things that their male counterparts do not have to.

It is possible that she is not difficult to work for and the problem is with the former members of her staff who were not cut out for working for the vice president of the United States of America? Or in the case of Symone Sanders (one of Bernie Sanders presidential campaign people) were not the right people to begin with.

Can she be expected to fix an immigration problem that is decades in the making and several presidential administrations bear responsibility for, no she should not. But when Biden assigned her the task, she could have not acted like it was an inconvenience.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omrMRP15q9M

Or just maybe, just maybe, all the reports about Harris are true and she is difficult to work for. Maybe she is the perfect example of what happens when you pick someone for a job solely based on their race and or/gender and don’t take things into consideration like qualifications, compatibility, and leadership skills. Or what happens when a person is not allowed to choose someone they want to, but because of outside forces, they have to pick someone else instead.

As for her possible campaign in 2024, considering how poorly she did in the 2020 Democratic primaries and debates, you can say that was already doomed to begin with.

[Stavros]

Thanks for this Blackchubby, the point being that I value your intelligent posts, I hope you understand that, though obviously you and everyone else is free to post whenever they want, or not to.

You offer contrasting views, and useful ones, as for example, I don't know who Symone Sanders is. I wonder if this lacuna in leadership, somethig we have in the UK, means that the Democrats are going to engage in a messy sequence of Primaries and Caucuses when the time comes, whereas it appears that the only person who might challenge Trump, assuming he runs/is allowed to run (for legal reasons) is Ron DeSantis.

With Luxury Liz Truss or Richer-than-you Rishi Sunak poised to replace Boris Johnson -assuming he doesn't survive his latest crisis- and Macron potentially on the skids in France, Heaven help us all!

[thombergeron]

As for Kamala Harris.

Is it possible that the criticisms Harris has been receiving are based in racism and misogyny? Absolutely. I would be naïve to think that female politicians and especially minority ones at that must deal with things that their male counterparts do not have to.

It is possible that she is not difficult to work for and the problem is with the former members of her staff who were not cut out for working for the vice president of the United States of America? Or in the case of Symone Sanders (one of Bernie Sanders presidential campaign people) were not the right people to begin with.

Honestly, this is indistinguishable from criticism of Hillary Clinton. Nothing specific, just vague insinuations based on developments that would be unremarkable if the officeholder were a man.

Symone Sanders wasn't just some 2016 Bernie campaign person. She was a senior advisor in Joe Biden's 2020 campaign. She was one of Biden's main surrogates because she's great on TV. She's not only Harris's Chief Spokesperson, she's also Deputy Assistant to the President himself. She has worked in the White House of the President that she helped elect for a year following the campaign, and now she's leaving her public sector job for a more lucrative opportunity in the mainstream media. This a completely banal Washington career trajectory unless you're trying to spin something.


Maybe she is the perfect example of what happens when you pick someone for a job solely based on their race and or/gender and don’t take things into consideration like qualifications, compatibility, and leadership skills. Or what happens when a person is not allowed to choose someone they want to, but because of outside forces, they have to pick someone else instead.

Listen to yourself here. Kamala Harris was the twice-elected Attorney General of the State of California. She was elected to represent California in the United States Senate. But she lacks the qualifications, compatibility, and leadership skills to be Vice President of the United States? Maybe you could be a little more specific about what you believe Harris lacks.


As for her possible campaign in 2024, considering how poorly she did in the 2020 Democratic primaries and debates, you can say that was already doomed to begin with.

Yes, she did so poorly that she was selected to serve as Vice President on a ticket that won by historic margins. Total loser. Nothing going for her.

[MrFanti]

I'm sure Black Chubby remembers this...
But Harris had dismal support from the Black community to the extent that she quit her run for POTUS before the Primaries even began.

However, since she's Bi-Racial, it would be interesting to see how/what the ethnic groups on her mother's side felt about Kamala pre-Primaries.

[thombergeron]

Y'all. Harris currently enjoys a 72% approval rating among Black Americans. It's only slightly lower than her 77% approval among Democrats. Black voters were lukewarm on Harris at the top of a ticket in a must-win election because they (rightly) suspected that America is still too racist and misogynist to elect a black woman to the Presidency.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/04/kamala-harris-black-voters-2020-075651

Harris is 57 years old and currently holds the highest elected office any woman has held in American history. If you're anti-Kamala, you better steel yourself because she's going to be bothering you for another couple decades or so.

[filghy2]

I don't know much about Kamala Harris, but I agree that woman in politics face double standards. I've never understood the degree of animus in the US towards Hillary Clinton. The most bizarre thing was the people saying they voted for Trump in 2016 because they couldn't stand Hillary's lies. A similar thing happened with Julia Gillard, Australia's first and only female Prime Minister. She was actually very effective in getting legislation through a hung parliament, but the common perception seemed to be that she was calculating and devious.

Many of the reasons people give for not liking these politicians seem like rationalisations. If they behave like a typical male politician they are criticised for being ruthless, calculating and devious. If they behaved in a more stereotypically feminine way many of the same people would no doubt complain that they were not strong and forceful enough to be a good leader.

[Stavros]

Two interesting posts above. I recall some of the ridicule Julia Gillard faced in Parliament, but don't know much else about her. As for Harris, the demographic points thombergon makes are similar to the ones I made in the OP. So it begs the question, is she the victim of a biased media -in the UK she doesn't have much support it seems- or does she really have problems of management with her staff and her 'Vision' if she has any?

There is so much to happen in the interim, not least the prospect that Trump will not be able to run for legal reasons, or like Putin he just likes tugging at people's egos. Then there is the prospect that Harris might be President sooner than we think... but let's not dwell on that now....

[Stavros]

I sometimes get the impression that it's not can Kamala save the Nation, but can anyone save Kamala? She seems to me to be level-headed, calm in a crisis, reasonable but maybe not the charisma that some people seem to need, as if Presidents must make rousing speeches to the masses.

She gave a considered and well-judged speech to the Munich Security Conference a few weeks, ago, and in this clip she demolishes the superficial nonsense of De Santis on Ukraine, a topic of which he knows nothing, indeed, his ignorance on a variety of important issues ought to raise concerns. It seems to me the logic of his position is to withdraw the US from NATO.

Anyway, some people here will have seen it, but I still think she can grow into the role and if Biden drops out or something else happens, it will be her opportunity to prove she can do it.

Kamala Harris Slams Ron DeSantis' Ukraine Statement (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-slams-ron-desantis-053159100.html)