8 big names speak out of abuse from christian

[miketaylor912]

Jamie French River Enza Kaelyn Jaye Chelsea Poe Layla Moore

Stefani Special Oriana Frost Domino Presley

All the above girls have spoken out on abuse from christian,unlucky for him they all posted a lot of the chat most through social media looks like a real tranny chaser does not like to take no for an answer..

[Ts RedVeX]

oh dear.. and what is he gonna do now?

[MarcusOrallio]

What the hell does this mean in English?
Sorry for being dumb, confused . com ....

[ilove2swallow]

he acts douchey 4 sure. complaining that other companies pay girls too much, lying about penis size and refusing to use condoms, etc...

[timxxx]

This is word play click bait what is meant by 'abuse' ? Was he cruel and violent,did he financial abuse them or verbal abuse ? And when did he 'abuse' them ? Of the 8 'big' names l know Christian must have done over 6 scenes with Domino Presley. Was he always abusive or just the last time ?

[NikaTS]

You can read about it here:

http://deadgirlproductions.com/speakout.html

[lordworm]

Sounds like a load of BS

[josehip]

Yeah, a couple of months ago I posted something about this here but my post got delete because of "sensitive subject" or some other bulshit. I saw some girls talking about this on twitter, posted the link here and then: DOWN!

[timxxx]

You can read about it here:

http://deadgirlproductions.com/speakout.html

Thanks

Read almost all of that, at worst it's Christian can be a bit of an annoying asshole.

[Lester316]

Thanks

Read almost all of that, at worst it's Christian can be a bit of an annoying asshole.

Read all of it. In the past on here I've called Christian a gentleman and a professional; I was wrong if these accounts are accurate. Sadly when it comes to most allegations of misconduct only the two people involved will ever truly know the real truth and that will always be one person's word against another's.

But if they are true then you're wrong. At best he has been annoying asshole, at worst he's been unprofessional, used his experience within the industry to take serious advantage of other performers both sexually and financially, and as someone with so many years in the industry behind him acts very immature when he doesn't get his way.

I like to try and believe the best in people but either way it's a case of serious misconduct or a group of people trying to character assassinate so whatever the truth is it's a sad state of affairs. I suspect either more talent will come out and join these performers or others will come forward and defend him and state they have always been treated with the up most respect; time will tell I guess.

[SanDiegoPervySage]

You can read about it here:

http://deadgirlproductions.com/speakout.html

That's not abuse, that's self admitted creeping/ stalking.

[SanDiegoPervySage]

he acts douchey 4 sure. complaining that other companies pay girls too much, lying about penis size and refusing to use condoms, etc...

Can't hold penis size against him. That's porn in general

[Samui]

Jamie's story tells of him going up and grabbing on her without her consent dude.

[giovanni_hotel]

THis is idiotic.

We're talking about PORN, for God's sake.

It would be the equivalent of a record producer telling an artist, "If you don't let me produce your next album, you won't have a career."
That's a threat, not abuse.

Christian allegedly telling another porn performer they need to do a scene with him to boost their career is NOT abuse.
And who exactly do they think is going to censure Christian for this alleged abuse??

Unless CHristian was out here raping girls, these chicks need to STFU.

From what I read Christian sounds like a tough negotiator. That's not sexual abuse.

[gaysian71]

Well, I guess technically if you had his big cock in you. That could be considered abuse. :0

[Torris]

Thanks

Read almost all of that, at worst it's Christian can be a bit of an annoying asshole.

Funny. I thought the worst was him forcing Stefani Special to give him road head and then force cumming down her throat.

[Torris]

As a non-porn industry fan: is “content trade” the porn industry’s casting couch?

[Torris]

THis is idiotic.

We're talking about PORN, for God's sake.

It would be the equivalent of a record producer telling an artist, "If you don't let me produce your next album, you won't have a career."
That's a threat, not abuse.

Torris: how is any different than what Harvey Weinstein did?


From what I read Christian sounds like a tough negotiator. That's not sexual abuse.

Torris: he sounds like a cheapskate

[SanDiegoPervySage]

Scrolled right past the links with their stories. No idea how I missed that on my phone browser.

[jake999]

Interesting news

[Telvin]

Not surprised!

[onetwo]

Not surprised!

You're absolutely stunning!

I don't understand how people are defending grabbing a girl, making out with her before a shoot without her consent as merely being "unprofessional".

[Lester316]

THis is idiotic.

We're talking about PORN, for God's sake.

It would be the equivalent of a record producer telling an artist, "If you don't let me produce your next album, you won't have a career."
That's a threat, not abuse.

Christian allegedly telling another porn performer they need to do a scene with him to boost their career is NOT abuse.
And who exactly do they think is going to censure Christian for this alleged abuse??

Unless CHristian was out here raping girls, these chicks need to STFU.

From what I read Christian sounds like a tough negotiator. That's not sexual abuse.

The it's porn argument doesn't hold any water considering some of the accusations. Porn performers are being paid to have sex on camera as their career choice; getting groped in a bathroom or being forced to give head in a car don't belong anywhere near that unless there happens to be a camera (and most likely camera-person) there and it was agreed to as part of the scene beforehand.

It doesn't matter what career someone chooses if they do it and choose not to do it for free nobody should be able to force them to do it in any other way. Nobody has yet to suggest that a film/TV actor or actress who has agreed to be nude in a scene as part of a career choice is being ridiculous if they refuse to strip for a slimeball like Harvey Weinstein so why should any porn performer be placed in a similar position.

Regardless many of these instance of abuse aren't just or only about the physical side of things; instead it's about the abuse of positions of power, industry experience and influence. Having read all the accounts posted so far I stand by what I said before if they are true then he is guilty of serious misconduct just as figures from other industries have been.

[christianxxx]

Hey there everyone! I just saw Jamie's website and obviously there are 2 sides to every story. I am not going to go into details because they aren't important, but this is the entertainment biz, and its a tough biz. I have been doing this for 15 years now, won multiple awards from AVN TEA XBIZ, performed in over 3500 scenes in gay, straight, and trans, produced content for Naughty America for 3 years, and for the past 5 years I've gone off and started my own little cluster of websites. Its incredibly challenging to be a performer and producer, especially as not only the new kid on the block, but the little guy as well. You have to fight and scratch and claw to get anywhere.

I work incredibly hard every day in order to be successful. I talk to 10-15 prospective models, speak to the models I have booked in the future, as well as talk to the models I've hired in the past. When you produce 250-275 scenes each year, not every model is going to like you after the scenes. When you perform 3500 scenes over 15 years, not every model is going to like you after the scenes. That's just the nature of the business. Additionally, this is a cutthroat industry, models are either working or not working, and when they are not working - its frustrating for them. You will see many frustrated models speaking out against producers who don't want to hire them.

Sometimes you have to read between the lines to see what the real story is. No one ever dislikes the unsuccessful guy, they never have enemies. I am not in this business to be friends, I am in this business to earn a living long term. And I am going to keep working as hard as I can on my websites and keep the noise off to the side. But I wish all of them good luck in the future.

[IHeartLadyCock]

I am not going to go into details because they aren't important, .

Aren't the details kind of the most important thing in these situations?

[christianxxx]

Aren't the details kind of the most important thing in these situations?

i'm not going to get into a he said, she said thing. that's pointless.

[Telvin]

Bottom line is, if you use a threat, no matter the threat, to get sex, you are guilty of RAPE! I have read numerous responses on this board that christian as made to critics and quite frankly I think he is a douch. I for one will take what the 8 ladies have said as truth and what christian says with a grain of salt. He is a narcissist and even his response shows it. I'm this, I am that, I have won this, I have won that so I cannot possible be the bad guy here.

[ak999999]

I don't know that much about the bizz you are referring to, but what i know is that being able to respect other people and be polite n kind when talking with them has nothing to do with what kind of job you do. I am also involved in a very competitive-tough industry but i never used intimidate language or actions against my ''enemies'' or anyone that doesn't want to work by my side.

I don't know about if the abuse and stuff are true or just exaggerations just to hurt Christian but the above statement is certainly true in my opinion for everyone regardless of his/her occupation (at least this is how i was taught by parents which i also find it ethically/morally correct). Again it's my opinion so i dunno (dont expect) if you people agree or not btw.

P.S i am not here to judge anyone, just sharing my opinion. Anyone can be what he wants to be.

cheers

[smalltownguy]

I don't know that much about the bizz you are referring to, but what i know is that being able to respect other people and be polite n kind when talking with them has nothing to do with what kind of job you do. I am also involved in a very competitive-tough industry but i never used intimidate language or actions against my ''enemies'' or anyone that doesn't want to work by my side.

I don't know about if the abuse and stuff are true or just exaggerations just to hurt Christian but the above statement is certainly true in my opinion for everyone regardless of his/her occupation (at least this is how i was taught by parents which i also find it ethically/morally correct). Again it's my opinion so i dunno (dont expect) if you people agree or not btw.

P.S i am not here to judge anyone, just sharing my opinion. Anyone can be what he wants to be.

cheers

being polite and respectful.....ya why not but upto what extent . there is a limit to everything as we say !!

[Gillian]

Of Christian's critics in this thread, how many of you actually know him or have ever met him?

Thought so ... ;)

[IHeartLadyCock]

Of Christian's critics in this thread, how many of you actually know him or have ever met him?

Thought so ... ;)

I mean, that goes both ways though. Do you personally know him?

[christianxxx]

look this is a biz and a message board dedicated to the girls in our industry. They are the stars, not me. So obviously the vast majority of fans are going to side with their favorite girls. I get that.

[giovanni_hotel]

Bottom line is, if you use a threat, no matter the threat, to get sex, you are guilty of RAPE! I have read numerous responses on this board that christian as made to critics and quite frankly I think he is a douch. I for one will take what the 8 ladies have said as truth and what christian says with a grain of salt. He is a narcissist and even his response shows it. I'm this, I am that, I have won this, I have won that so I cannot possible be the bad guy here.

Whatever.

Prospective porn actors are often required to have sex OFF CAMERA before they ever perform onscreen.

It's a form of rehearsal. If you're shitty at sex offscreen, why should a porn producer wait until he has everything ready for production to find out an actor sucks at sex in front of a camera???

If I were working in porn, I would think a producer asking me to have sex is kind of like an audition.

No different that a music producer asking me to sing a few bars.

If Christian was not a porn producer, and instead said he knew a guy who knew a guy who could get them in the business, but only if they had sex with him, that would be shady IMO.

However, in this case, Christian is the one producing the porn content.
Whenever he has sex with a prospective model, it's never JUST sex.

It's about seeing what you can do, if you have the necessary passion and sensuality to be a successful porn actress.

It seems to me these girls don't know the business they're trying to work in.

IMO this drama is because Christian appears to shoot a few scenes with a girl them moves on, choosing not to work with them again.
That's business.

[SanDiegoPervySage]

THis is idiotic.

We're talking about PORN, for God's sake.

It would be the equivalent of a record producer telling an artist, "If you don't let me produce your next album, you won't have a career."
That's a threat, not abuse.

Christian allegedly telling another porn performer they need to do a scene with him to boost their career is NOT abuse.
And who exactly do they think is going to censure Christian for this alleged abuse??

Unless CHristian was out here raping girls, these chicks need to STFU.

From what I read Christian sounds like a tough negotiator. That's not sexual abuse.

Bruh....

[giovanni_hotel]

Bruh....


Bruh, I've heard of porn producers asking a chick during an interview to take off her panties and masturbate herself to orgasm.
I've read accounts of male performers being told to take their dick and jerk it until they cum.

This is the porn business, and it's all about performance.
That performance is S-E-X.

The rest of the complaints are just not serious to me.
Arguing over fees and shoots is just like, who cares??

End of the day, if Christian is too abrasive and dismissive of his talent, eventually girls won't want to work with him.
I haven't seen that happen so far, so I tend to believe this is a group of women with an axe to grind.

[Lester316]

Whatever.

Prospective porn actors are often required to have sex OFF CAMERA before they ever perform onscreen.

It's a form of rehearsal. If you're shitty at sex offscreen, why should a porn producer wait until he has everything ready for production to find out an actor sucks at sex in front of a camera???

If I were working in porn, I would think a producer asking me to have sex is kind of like an audition.

No different that a music producer asking me to sing a few bars.

If Christian was not a porn producer, and instead said he knew a guy who knew a guy who could get them in the business, but only if they had sex with him, that would be shady IMO.

However, in this case, Christian is the one producing the porn content.
Whenever he has sex with a prospective model, it's never JUST sex.

It's about seeing what you can do, if you have the necessary passion and sensuality to be a successful porn actress.

It seems to me these girls don't know the business they're trying to work in.

IMO this drama is because Christian appears to shoot a few scenes with a girl them moves on, choosing not to work with them again.
That's business.

Did you actually read their stories? I'm not actually saying I believe either side (whatever the truth is it's awful either way; either Christian has crossed some lines he 100% shouldn't have or there are like he says performers that just don't like him in which case it's a group made character assassination attempt - both suck). But the allegations aren't about some sort of rehearsal - he hasn't even suggested that - they are allegations of sexual abuse such as groping people, forcing them to perform oral sex or allegations of manipulation such as undercutting them in pay, arrangements or trying to get them to work with out a condom by badgering them constantly by talking about industry experience.

I could understand someone defending Christian and saying "look loads of performers work with him quite happily, these are just a few who didn't get exactly what they wanted and therefore have a grudge" or others attacking him and saying "listen to these terrible things the performers have said sounds like he's a bully" but your audition suggestion is utterly mental.

From what I can gather and Christian can always correct me on this seeing as he has been active in the thread but like other producers he spends the time researching potential scene partners (either by looking at their other content or things such as social media and cam work) and talking to them via DMs or email before he commits financial resources to fly them out and shoot. And I seriously doubt his idea of a rehearsal is groping someone whilst they are doing their make-up or getting a blow-job in his car following a meeting if he is the professional he states he is then things would be done differently than that I'm sure.

[ak999999]

being polite and respectful.....ya why not but upto what extent . there is a limit to everything as we say !!
Yep, i agree on you... take a look at the messages exchanged between them and use your critical thinking to find out if he exceeded the limit or not... i wont refer to the stories cause those might not so reliable sources. For me when someone start to speaks abruptly and a bit hostile to others without a significant reason then it's lack of respect for the other person


Of Christian's critics in this thread, how many of you actually know him or have ever met him?

Thought so ... ;)

lol nice argument... As most people here don't know or met Christian, there as many people that don't know or met the girls. So how can we supposed to have an opinion for either side? I just look in the evidence (not the stories told by the girls), which in this case are the real messages exchange between them. The judges in a court don't know anything about the people getting judged but they just use evidence to make an opinion of who they are. And now you can have an opinion. Thus the point ''you dont really know him'' is a bit childish and invalid in this case

[smalltownguy]

Yep, i agree on you... take a look at the messages exchanged between them and use your critical thinking to find out if he exceeded the limit or not... i wont refer to the stories cause those might not so reliable sources. For me when someone start to speaks abruptly and a bit hostile to others without a significant reason then it's lack of respect for the other person



lol nice argument... As most people here don't know or met Christian, there as many people that don't know or met the girls. So how can we supposed to have an opinion for either side? I just look in the evidence (not the stories told by the girls), which in this case are the real messages exchange between them. The judges in a court don't know anything about the people getting judged but they just use evidence to make an opinion of who they are. And now you can have an opinion. Thus the point ''you dont really know him'' is a bit childish and invalid in this case

great...

[LongTom101]

Not surprised the big bald douchebag bully Christian himself is on here defending his actions and obvious abuse of power as "no big deal, blah blah blah etc", but I am surprised by the members of HungAngels rushing to his defence like the toadying, dick drunk sycophants that they are......he can do no wrong in your eyes since you want to get fucked by him and the moronic "but this is porn" card makes it all fine and good as far as you're concerned.

Everyone being so diplomatic and treading on eggshells because the big bald bully is a [very] minor celebrity and a regular poster here ?

Fuck that and fuck him, the guy is clearly an asshole, and IN THE BEST CASE SCENARIO, merely an aggressive creep and bully who sulks and acts like a 210lb, bald headed baby with a hard-on when he doesnt get his own way, despite his best attempts at coercion and threats.

[Ts RedVeX]

Can't wait till comrade Stavros and his union of mutual adoration join the discussion proposing a law against Christian model abuse xD

[Ben in LA]

Of Christian's critics in this thread, how many of you actually know him or have ever met him?

Thought so ... ;)
I know him. I’ve met him. I’ve also met some of the girls that have replied.

Just answering your question. I have no knowledge of the accusations.

[NikaTS]

Prospective porn actors are often required to have sex OFF CAMERA before they ever perform onscreen.

It's a form of rehearsal. If you're shitty at sex offscreen, why should a porn producer wait until he has everything ready for production to find out an actor sucks at sex in front of a camera???

If I were working in porn, I would think a producer asking me to have sex is kind of like an audition.

Good thing you don't work in porn because you're delusional if you think that shit is professional conduct in pornography.

Professional conduct in porn is not having sex off screen, but having respectful attitude toward your co-actors / actresses. There are no "tryouts" or whatever it is you conjured up in your head, at least not with producers who know how to conduct themselves.

Not to mention that having sex in front of a camera is COMPLETELY different to having sex off-screen.

If you have no clue about working in the industry, don't pretend you do and preach your uneducated opinion as truth.

[Ts RedVeX]

Don't worry. He is just one of the hungangels' communists, who don't have a clue what they are talking about:) Still no sign of the First Secretary though...

[kmersh]

I do not know anything about the Porn Industry, nor do I know Christian or anybody involved, but I did receive Sexual Harassment training in the wake of all the allegations now out in the public over the last few months.

HR of course explained in detail what is appropriate in the work place and what is not, but then they explained how harassment can be unintentional and still be absolutely wrong. They made reference to Louis CK who did not purposely try to sexually harris woman but realized after the fact that being in a position of power and even asking was still applying undue pressure because he was famous and held some amount of power of the woman he asked to show his genitals too.

They explained that any one employee may not purposely set out to commit sexual harassment but may end of doing so by simply being in a position of power even if it seems the other party is willing to do so, they maybe acting out of fear rather than actual desire.

Of course I do not know Christian as I said earlier, nor do I know anything about the Porn Industry nor any of its actors or actresses but obviously Sexual Harassment is a problem in every industry and by no means am I excusing anybody, but it seems to me that we as a population are going to have to take a good hard look at how we all behave and treat others.

Is it possible that Christian thought it was okay because there we no complaints? Absoultely, he may not have gone in thinking he was committing sexual harassment, that does not make it any less wrong, but it is easy to see how it could happen. Again, I have absolutely no idea, just speculating as that is what one tends to do on the internet, play arm chair quarterback.

After the HR training, I started to think how I interact with colleagues and I have made adjustments to ensure that I do not cause any undue harm, even though I never had an intention to do so and never would.

[Nikka]

no please no

you guys really need to meet Duke Skywalker shooting for facialabuse.com

[Gillian]

I mean, that goes both ways though. Do you personally know him?
No I don't, which is why I've refrained from passing (ill-informed) comment ...

[darkrose2000]

Whatever.

Prospective porn actors are often required to have sex OFF CAMERA before they ever perform onscreen.

It's a form of rehearsal. If you're shitty at sex offscreen, why should a porn producer wait until he has everything ready for production to find out an actor sucks at sex in front of a camera???

If I were working in porn, I would think a producer asking me to have sex is kind of like an audition.

No different that a music producer asking me to sing a few bars.



Lol :dead::whistle:
So, it is like the music industry.
As Red Vex likes to say .. Oh Dear, oh, Dear :)

[bassman2546]

Lol :dead::whistle:
So, it is like the music industry.
As Red Vex likes to say .. Oh Dear, oh, Dear :)


And usually the music producer asks for you to sing, not grab you by the ass and force it out of you.

[giovanni_hotel]

Good thing you don't work in porn because you're delusional if you think that shit is professional conduct in pornography.

Professional conduct in porn is not having sex off screen, but having respectful attitude toward your co-actors / actresses. There are no "tryouts" or whatever it is you conjured up in your head, at least not with producers who know how to conduct themselves.

Not to mention that having sex in front of a camera is COMPLETELY different to having sex off-screen.

If you have no clue about working in the industry, don't pretend you do and preach your uneducated opinion as truth.

I don't have to work in adult entertainment to know the sum total of these complaints sound like bullshit.

What I do know is that in all genres of porn, it's COMMON for producers to sleep with talent, and for more established actors to have sex off camera with newbies just entering the industry.
Did Christian not shoot with a woman if she refused to sleep with him off camera?? I don't know for a fact, but I'd say it's highly unlikely.


These girls aren't the Sister of the Poor. If they didn't want to have sex with Christian off camera, why didn't they say no??
Did they really think Christian tracked these girls down, arranged a fee, and then would decide not to work with them if they didn't have sex with him off camera??

From where I'm sitting, these girls had sex with Christian off camera because they WANTED to, and now after the fact are trying to call it sexual harassment.

NO one is saying these girls have to like Christian, but accusing someone of sexual harassment, sexual assault, or even rape isn't something you do because you don't like someone.

There are a lot of grey lines in porn and all these women would be hard pressed to convince anyone what Christian did was illegal.

Also, conflicted sex isn't sexual assault.

It's not like Christian was paying these girls tens of thousands of dollars either. Their 'careers' weren't on the line if they said no to Christian offscreen.
I don't see how Christian actually pressured these girls into having sex with him.

To me it still sounds like a bunch of bitter babes had a hen conference and decided to go after an easy target.

[SanDiegoPervySage]

Bruh, I've heard of porn producers asking a chick during an interview to take off her panties and masturbate herself to orgasm.
I've read accounts of male performers being told to take their dick and jerk it until they cum.

This is the porn business, and it's all about performance.
That performance is S-E-X.

The rest of the complaints are just not serious to me.
Arguing over fees and shoots is just like, who cares??

End of the day, if Christian is too abrasive and dismissive of his talent, eventually girls won't want to work with him.
I haven't seen that happen so far, so I tend to believe this is a group of women with an axe to grind.

You think the only time a girl should speak up is when she is being raped. Bruh...

[Telvin]

I don't have to work in adult entertainment to know the sum total of these complaints sound like bullshit.

What I do know is that in all genres of porn, it's COMMON for producers to sleep with talent, and for more established actors to have sex off camera with newbies just entering the industry.
Did Christian not shoot with a woman if she refused to sleep with him off camera?? I don't know for a fact, but I'd say it's highly unlikely.


These girls aren't the Sister of the Poor. If they didn't want to have sex with Christian off camera, why didn't they say no??
Did they really think Christian tracked these girls down, arranged a fee, and then would decide not to work with them if they didn't have sex with him off camera??

From where I'm sitting, these girls had sex with Christian off camera because they WANTED to, and now after the fact are trying to call it sexual harassment.

NO one is saying these girls have to like Christian, but accusing someone of sexual harassment, sexual assault, or even rape isn't something you do because you don't like someone.

There are a lot of grey lines in porn and all these women would be hard pressed to convince anyone what Christian did was illegal.

Also, conflicted sex isn't sexual assault.

It's not like Christian was paying these girls tens of thousands of dollars either. Their 'careers' weren't on the line if they said no to Christian offscreen.
I don't see how Christian actually pressured these girls into having sex with him.

To me it still sounds like a bunch of bitter babes had a hen conference and decided to go after an easy target.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hULhXf04

[cwonk]

I found this in another thread. hmm.

http://ist3-3.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/1/_/_/_/1/4/3/J/D/43JD7/Screen_Shot_2016-11-09.png

[Torris]

Of Christian's critics in this thread, how many of you actually know him or have ever met him?

Thought so ... ;)


Don’t know Harvey Weinstein either.

[DGinmass]

I'll add my $.02, I was just with someone in Boston who recently did a scene with Christian, and she said he was completely professional, they each got individual content for their respective web sites, and said the whole thing couldn't have gone any smoother. She had nothing but nice things to say about him.

This was about 4 weeks ago so way before this thread was started.

[Torris]

I do not know anything about the Porn Industry, nor do I know Christian or anybody involved, but I did receive Sexual Harassment training in the wake of all the allegations now out in the public over the last few months.


Of course I do not know Christian as I said earlier, nor do I know anything about the Porn Industry nor any of its actors or actresses but obviously Sexual Harassment is a problem in every industry and by no means am I excusing anybody, but it seems to me that we as a population are going to have to take a good hard look at how we all behave and treat others.

Is it possible that Christian thought it was okay because there we no complaints? Absoultely, he may not have gone in thinking he was committing sexual harassment, that does not make it any less wrong, but it is easy to see how it could happen. Again, I have absolutely no idea, just speculating as that is what one tends to do on the internet, play arm chair quarterback.

.

Having read the stories of the women. It appears he threatened to use social media to blackball these women within the industry: that they would lose bookings.

That passive aggression is exactly how Harvey Weinstein abused his victims.

And just like a singer doesn’t sing for free, why should sex performers be obligated or expected to be fondled or harassed into sex off camera.

To suggest otherwise is exactly what Weinstein counted on as well. The old, “they knew what was expected of them”

I think Stefani Special’s story rung true with some of what I read about Harvey’s victims. They felt they must comply to abuse or lose current and future film roles.

To say it’s a cut throat business buys into the justification that this abusive behavior is culturally acceptable in his business.

Whether it is Hollywood or porn. That cop out is bullshit

[Ts RedVeX]

The 3 scenes I have done with Christian went smoothly too. - And the atmosphere was very pleasant and relaxed.

I think this thread must be due to the communists... :grin:

[bryanferryfan2]

I enjoy Christian's content. I've never met the man, I feel that you can't please everyone and you definitely aren't going to get along with with everyone. With that said, I wish all involved in this argument the best.

[bryanferryfan2]

Btw Red looking good

[giovanni_hotel]

I found this in another thread. hmm.

http://ist3-3.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/1/_/_/_/1/4/3/J/D/43JD7/Screen_Shot_2016-11-09.png



THis is the stupid shit I'm talking about.

Did this woman decide not to do porn anymore because of her interaction one time with Christian, or because she decided having sex on vid just wasn't for her??

People are taking her off hand comment and reading all kinds of negative crap into it.

Blaming Christian as the reason why a TS decides not to do porn anymore is ridiculous.

Being a porn actor just isn't for everyone.

[Ts RedVeX]

Wow! For the second time this month I can agree with someone's post on this board. I think there is still hope for mankind!

[Lester316]

THis is the stupid shit I'm talking about.

Did this woman decide not to do porn anymore because of her interaction one time with Christian, or because she decided having sex on vid just wasn't for her??

People are taking her off hand comment and reading all kinds of negative crap into it.

Blaming Christian as the reason why a TS decides not to do porn anymore is ridiculous.

Being a porn actor just isn't for everyone.

Very much from a certain point of view stuff. You say people are taking her off hand comment and reading negative crap into it but when I read it my first thought was it's a direct answer to a question and seemed pretty succinctly to be saying that's exactly why she doesn't do porn any more.

[Torris]

I found this in another thread. hmm.

http://ist3-3.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/1/_/_/_/1/4/3/J/D/43JD7/Screen_Shot_2016-11-09.png


Too bad she left the industry. That scene was one of the hottest Tgirl porn scenes I have ever seen

[lordworm]

The 3 scenes I have done with Christian went smoothly too. - And the atmosphere was very pleasant and relaxed.

I think this thread must be due to the communists... :grin:

This is why Poland is one of the greatest countries in the world.

[christianxxx]

Having read the stories of the women. It appears he threatened to use social media to blackball these women within the industry: that they would lose bookings.

That passive aggression is exactly how Harvey Weinstein abused his victims.

And just like a singer doesn’t sing for free, why should sex performers be obligated or expected to be fondled or harassed into sex off camera.

To suggest otherwise is exactly what Weinstein counted on as well. The old, “they knew what was expected of them”

I think Stefani Special’s story rung true with some of what I read about Harvey’s victims. They felt they must comply to abuse or lose current and future film roles.

To say it’s a cut throat business buys into the justification that this abusive behavior is culturally acceptable in his business.

Whether it is Hollywood or porn. That cop out is bullshit

i have to be honest, I have no earthly idea what this even means. are you saying that if a model refused to work for me, then I would tell the other companies that I don't work for and that are my competition, not to hire her? do you think other companies give 2 shits what I think about a model? if a model makes a company money, they will film her...no matter what. that's a really strange thing to claim.

[christianxxx]

I found this in another thread. hmm.

http://ist3-3.filesor.com/pimpandhost.com/1/_/_/_/1/4/3/J/D/43JD7/Screen_Shot_2016-11-09.png

yeah it was not a fun day for a variety of reasons. she is a beautiful girl but definitely not cut out for porn. i appreciate her giving it the old college try though.

[christianxxx]

I'll add my $.02, I was just with someone in Boston who recently did a scene with Christian, and she said he was completely professional, they each got individual content for their respective web sites, and said the whole thing couldn't have gone any smoother. She had nothing but nice things to say about him.

This was about 4 weeks ago so way before this thread was started.

again I film 250-300 scenes a year. Obviously the vast majority go smoothly without a hitch, but thats not always the case. Some models don't mesh well and the scenes are not fun and not good...its part of the business. I've always understood that. I've loved working with a model only to find out she hated working with me. Its the nature of having sex with strangers haha.

[christianxxx]

The 3 scenes I have done with Christian went smoothly too. - And the atmosphere was very pleasant and relaxed.

I think this thread must be due to the communists... :grin:

lets be honest, you are tall, blonde, busty, and incredibly sensual. it would be pretty fucking hard not to have a good performance with you. Although a case could be made for me struggling not to cum too early haha.

[Ts RedVeX]

That would only mean more action though haha.

[GroobySteven]

Don't worry. He is just one of the hungangels' communists, who don't have a clue what they are talking about:) Still no sign of the First Secretary though...


You'll get banned for baiting and trolling.
This was irrelevant to this thread.

[GroobySteven]

Ok I'm not going to get into each comment here - other than to say, among the girls that spoke out, there were only two which had genuine complaints.
The others were general bickering and trying to create mischief (something both Jamie and Chelsea Pug excel in doing).

The industry is problematic and addressing it is important, even in the way it's being done here. I think there may be problems the way some producers work and that may also need addressing, but also look at the actual accusations and separate genuine complaints from just people who dislike him.

[christianxxx]

Ok I'm not going to get into each comment here - other than to say, among the girls that spoke out, there were only two which had genuine complaints.
The others were general bickering and trying to create mischief (something both Jamie and Chelsea Pug excel in doing).

The industry is problematic and addressing it is important, even in the way it's being done here. I think there may be problems the way some producers work and that may also need addressing, but also look at the actual accusations and separate genuine complaints from just people who dislike him.

I will be the first to admit that one of the complaints was from when my site first launched and I had just started to branch out from strictly content trade to flying girls in and paying them for exclusive content. Obviously there will be mistakes made as a producer learns how to streamline and make the process more efficient.

I think its also very hard to be a performer AND producer at once. Just being a performer is fun and easy, you show up, have sex with a beautiful model, get paid and go home. Just being a producer is more difficult, but if you are having sex with the model, there is a different relationship and you can focus on making the scene perfect in order to make your site money. But doing both requires much more focus and organization. There are times where I am directing the action, worrying about lighting, giving the model instructions, putting her where she needs to be, and THEN i have to worry about making sure my dick is hard. Not the easiest at times especially when i am dealing with an amateur model who doesn't know how a porn scene works.

[Post Op Preferred]

Ok I'm not going to get into each comment here - other than to say, among the girls that spoke out, there were only two which had genuine complaints.
The others were general bickering and trying to create mischief (something both Jamie and Chelsea Pug excel in doing).

The industry is problematic and addressing it is important, even in the way it's being done here. I think there may be problems the way some producers work and that may also need addressing, but also look at the actual accusations and separate genuine complaints from just people who dislike him.

Oh-oh. A responsible adult has entered the conversation to spoil all the fun.
Thanks to Steven and to all for an illuminating discussion of a fraught issue, and especially to CXXX for his candor.

[Nikka]

TS EScorts mostly arrive suck cock and go yes and they claim they are V.I.P. :dead:

[fred41]

My question would be to Steven, since when it comes to this genre, I imagine Grooby is pretty much the gold standard. I understand there are some pretty low level production companies out there , but is the 'legit' company model the way Nika Ts represented it to be (which was also kind of my understanding ) or is it still largely, run- of-the mill sleazy, the way Giovanni Hotel described it? I'm not asking what a few small companies do (or used to do)...I'm asking what the large companies do?
Issues such as - are there strict rules in place, that the talent is aware of, that prohibits unwanted advances by opposing actors pre-shoot? Are actors fired when they cross that line? Is the talent EVER required to have unpaid sex with any member of the company, off camera, as an assumptive try-out?
Most of us don't really know, other than what we hear or read, about what really goes on at a production.

There's no point in addressing what happens on a personal level between talent off set, because that wouldn't necessarily be the responsibility of the production company per-se (and I've heard some rumors about both the male talent and even some TS girls doing some harrassive shit, but at the end of the day, those are just rumors...and rumors are 'sometimes' created out of shear dislike).

Just trying to clear up what the actual business model here in the States is.

[bassman2546]

Ok I'm not going to get into each comment here - other than to say, among the girls that spoke out, there were only two which had genuine complaints.
The others were general bickering and trying to create mischief (something both Jamie and Chelsea Pug excel in doing).

The industry is problematic and addressing it is important, even in the way it's being done here. I think there may be problems the way some producers work and that may also need addressing, but also look at the actual accusations and separate genuine complaints from just people who dislike him.

I do agree that some of the complaints are ridiculous. Who hasn't bickered with someone through text? I mean, isn't that what it's all about - people saying what they truly feel without doing so face to face? If Domino Presley spent as much time trying to keep her dick hard during a scene instead of wasting all her aggression on text, maybe she'd be a superstar rather than a struggling has been.

That being said, I've read some (not many but some) of Christian's comments on this site and he carries an arrogance about him that I don't like and can be condescending with some of his comments. Do I like what he always says? No, but I am completely distanced from the business at which he makes a living. I understand that being in business requires some aggressive behavior to make a buck, but not physically mishandling a model. Going forward maybe a little respect and communication can be directed toward the models by Christian. "This is how I like to establish chemistry. Are you okay with us physically getting to know one another prior to the scene? No? Okay. I respect that." It may be a good idea for Christian to give the models a form to fill out with questions that encourage them to provide information of "Do's" and "Don'ts", information that they may be uncomfortable verbally communicating. Maybe that's already done and is being ignored. I don't know.

Maybe the models can be upfront with what they won't tolerate. Don't take a job, get 'abused' and come back and rant about being abused. Don't get me wrong, no one deserves abuse, but going forward, be smart about it. If you don't get a job because you have some stipulations, then so what. You, at least, established that person/company has no integrity or credibility. If you take the job, get groped, rather than smear someone's name across the industry, think about what you could have done differently to avoid it happening again. I get tired of hearing women who had multiple situations with someone regarding unwanted sex. After the first occasion happens, it's your stupidity for everything that happens beyond that. If you burn your fingers in the fire, are you going to stick your fingers back in the fire?

I have no clue how THIS business works but I know how business works. Rather than hoping this issue goes away, maybe the higher powers can put their heads together and be proactive rather than reactive again in the future.

[Ts RedVeX]

"It may be a good idea for Christian to give the models a form to fill out with questions that encourage them to provide information of "Do's" and "Don'ts", information that they may be uncomfortable verbally communicating. Maybe that's already done and is being ignored. I don't know." - bassman2546

- I am really looking forward to Steven addressing my question about democracy within a socialist company I have raised here: http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?73366-The-FAST-Approaching-Gun-Ban&p=1805022&viewfull=1#post1805022 Might as well answer here, as it is more relevant since someone brought it up.


Also, fred41, I am also really looking forward to "Somebody" to propose establishing a Ministry of Porn in order to put things in order, so that no Chelsea Poo is going to feel offended, abused, excluded etc.

[Nikka]

I love the serious RedVex , she is my woman

[fred41]

Also, fred41, I am also really looking forward to "Somebody" to propose establishing a Ministry of Porn in order to put things in order, so that no Chelsea Poo is going to feel offended, abused, excluded etc.

I'm just asking what the actual business model is, not what I think it should be...or what you think it should be based on personal politics.

[broncofan]

I don't want to comment on the accusations because they range quite a bit in seriousness and there are just too many things I don't know. But I did notice that Christian seems to routinely misstate the odds of contracting hiv in order to justify having condomless sex. In one of the copied interactions he says that anything other than receiving an anal creampie is less than one in ten million chance of hiv transmission. To the extent there are statistics this is not even close to true.

http://www.deadgirlproductions.com/sographics/5.jpg

If he only considers receptive anal creampie to be a risk this leaves insertive anal without a condom, receptive anal with a condom, insertive with a condom, receptive no condom but without cumming in the ass, receptive fellatio and insertive fellatio as less than one in ten million in his view. The studies that exist contradict his claim that insertive anal without a condom is low risk. That's not even close to right. And while I haven't seen stats on risk of transmission for bareback without a creampie, it's likely many orders greater than 1 in ten million.

Even receptive oral is not one in ten million despite being fairly low risk. So, while I don't want to weigh in on the most serious accusations, it is bothersome to see him propagating myths about hiv transmission rates. I'm fairly certain he proposed similar numbers years ago on a thread here and was rebutted with statistics. A shame to see him as recently as 2016 telling someone something that I haven't seen any support for in order to encourage them to do something they're not comfortable with.

https://www.aidsmap.com/Estimated-risk-per-exposure/page/1324038/#item1324093

http://www.catie.ca/en/pif/summer-2012/putting-number-it-risk-exposure-hiv

https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/estimates/riskbehaviors.html

[GroobySteven]

I'm just asking what the actual business model is, not what I think it should be...or what you think it should be based on personal politics.

At a webmaster show in London. Will answer over the weekend or earlier when I get a break.

[Ts RedVeX]

The chance of contracting HIV during receptive intercourse with an HIV positive person is a fraction of percent and it goes even lower from there, the less of a creampie the intercourse ends with. Your tables show no proof of Christian's argument to be untrue.


Personally, I would even question these "scientists' " competence, as they clearly do not know how probability works:

"The risk of getting HIV varies widely depending on the type of exposure or behavior (such as sharing needles or having sex without a condom). Some exposures to HIV carry a much higher risk of transmission than other exposures. For some exposures, while transmission is biologically possible, the risk is so low that it is not possible to put a precise number on it. But risks do add up over time. Even relatively small risks can add up over time and lead to a high lifetime risk of getting HIV. In other words, there may be a relatively small chance of acquiring HIV when engaging in a risk behavior with an infected partner only once; but, if repeated many times, the overall likelihood of becoming infected after repeated exposures is actually much higher. "

- For arguments sake, let's assume that risks are additive. Let's assume that the risk of winning the National lottery is 1%, (or probability is 0,01) That means you have 100% chance of winning the lottery in case that you buy 100 tickets. (complete bullshit, of course). Moreover, if you buy 101 or more tickets, probability reaches values above 1, and risk - of above 100%, which is of course nonsense.

- Maths aside, I would personally argue with statements like "the more you get exposed to a bacteria or virus, the higher the risk you will actually get sick". I think everybody can agree that this is actually the opposite to the truth and would contradict the whole idea of vaccination, or various germs getting immune to drugs.

[LongTom101]

"It may be a good idea for Christian to give the models a form to fill out with questions that encourage them to provide information of "Do's" and "Don'ts", information that they may be uncomfortable verbally communicating. Maybe that's already done and is being ignored. I don't know." - bassman2546

- I am really looking forward to Steven addressing my question about democracy within a socialist company I have raised here: http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?73366-The-FAST-Approaching-Gun-Ban&p=1805022&viewfull=1#post1805022 Might as well answer here, as it is more relevant since someone brought it up.


Also, fred41, I am also really looking forward to "Somebody" to propose establishing a Ministry of Porn in order to put things in order, so that no Chelsea Poo is going to feel offended, abused, excluded etc.

As in :
'Will you or won't you have unpaid off camera sex with me regardless of how much you don't want to and as long as I bully, coerce, sulk and tantrum throw enough until you give in ?'

[bassman2546]

As in :
'Will you or won't you have unpaid off camera sex with me regardless of how much you don't want to and as long as I bully, coerce, sulk and tantrum throw enough until you give in ?'

Yeah, that's the opposite of what I wrote and the opposite of the attitude I'm portraying.

[trish]

I have no desire to enter into this argument. I do wish to correct some statements as they pertain to matters that could effect the future health of readers who take them to be true.


The chance of contracting HIV during receptive intercourse with an HIV positive person is a fraction of percent and it goes even lower from there, the less of a creampie the intercourse ends with. Your tables show no proof of Christian's argument to be untrue.


Personally, I would even question these "scientists' " competence, as they clearly do not know how probability works:

"The risk of getting HIV varies widely depending on the type of exposure or behavior (such as sharing needles or having sex without a condom). Some exposures to HIV carry a much higher risk of transmission than other exposures. For some exposures, while transmission is biologically possible, the risk is so low that it is not possible to put a precise number on it. But risks do add up over time. Even relatively small risks can add up over time and lead to a high lifetime risk of getting HIV. In other words, there may be a relatively small chance of acquiring HIV when engaging in a risk behavior with an infected partner only once; but, if repeated many times, the overall likelihood of becoming infected after repeated exposures is actually much higher. "

- For arguments sake, let's assume that risks are additive. Let's assume that the risk of winning the National lottery is 1%, (or probability is 0,01) That means you have 100% chance of winning the lottery in case that you buy 100 tickets. (complete bullshit, of course). Moreover, if you buy 101 or more tickets, probability reaches values above 1, and risk - of above 100%, which is of course nonsense.

- Maths aside, I would personally argue with statements like "the more you get exposed to a bacteria or virus, the higher the risk you will actually get sick". I think everybody can agree that this is actually the opposite to the truth and would contradict the whole idea of vaccination, or various germs getting immune to drugs.


To be fair, the quote is “...risks do add up over time...” which is not the same as saying the risks are additive. If the risk of winning the lottery by purchasing one ticket is 1% , and you buy 100 tickets, then the probability that at least one is a winner is (1-(0.99^100)); i.e. just over 63%. In this sense risks do indeed add up over time.

The more you get exposed to a bacteria or virus the greater becomes the risk that you will indeed become infected. Once infected you may or may not develop an immunity. That all depends on the nature of the infectious agent and whether the human immune system is capable of dealing with it. We know that there is no effective immune response to HIV. In fact HIV attacks the human immune system.

[broncofan]

The chance of contracting HIV during receptive intercourse with an HIV positive person is a fraction of percent and it goes even lower from there, the less of a creampie the intercourse ends with. Your tables show no proof of Christian's argument to be untrue.


Personally, I would even question these "scientists' " competence, as they clearly do not know how probability works:

The probability according to the cdc of contracting hiv from insertive anal is 11 per 10,000. This is a little bit more likely than 1 in a 1000. Do you think that's only slightly different from 1 in 10,000,000?

One might say that the odds do not apply in his case because of multiple contingencies that make it less likely he's hiv positive, but that defeats the purpose of using available statistics...if he does not have hiv then the probability of transmission is zero, no matter what the exposure. The issue is how likely these acts are to transmit hiv, and in the case of insertive anal, it's not something that doesn't happen or that is so remote to be a non-risk.

Did your intuition tell you that the person with two lottery tickets was not more likely to win than the person with one? Forget whether it's linear or how to calculate it for a second, the language in the article only said that the more exposures a person has, the more likely overall they are to contract hiv. Given the fact that the immune system does not effectively combat the virus, why would that not be true?

Anyhow, the point was not to attack Christian or weigh in at all on the other questions, except on one thing which we can all agree on. Let's not further confuse the issues by making hiv transmission seem so remote that there is only one route of transmission....a fairly minor point that has consequences for people beyond their interactions with one person, but as a matter of general health. Can't we agree that people should check the available epidemiological data if they are concerned about hiv?

[LittleGuy]

To be honest, I dont think christian is a good performer. All his shoots are boring. I avoid all his videos, even if the hottest women are in them.

[Nikka]

To be honest, I dont think christian is a good performer. All his shoots are boring. I avoid all his videos, even if the hottest women are in them.


you didn´t

[LongTom101]

Yeah, that's the opposite of what I wrote and the opposite of the attitude I'm portraying.

Yeah, no shit Shercock !

[Ts RedVeX]

Trish, I would like you to give me the title of the book that teaches thah probability works the way you suggest... It does not matter how many times you play the lottery, or how many tickets you buy, the probability of winning remains the same.

The probability contracting HIV depends heavily on the amount of viral load and the immune system of the load's recipient. I don't know what sort of people were the "lab rats", I actually find it difficult to believe that anyone sane and fully healthy would even participate in it, but there are many factors that may diminish the risks shown by the table - whether to as little as 1:10M, i dunno - just making a point. Because once again you are given something with "gov" in it and you blindly believe in it as if it was some sort of an oracle.

[broncofan]

Trish, I would like you to give me the title of the book that teaches thah probability works the way you suggest... It does not matter how many times you play the lottery, or how many tickets you buy, the probability of winning remains the same.

The probability contracting HIV depends heavily on the amount of viral load and the immune system of the load's recipient. I don't know what sort of people were the "lab rats", I actually find it difficult to believe that anyone sane and fully healthy would even participate in it, but there are many factors that may diminish the risks shown by the table - whether to as little as 1:10M, i dunno - just making a point. Because once again you are given something with "gov" in it and you blindly believe in it as if it was some sort of an oracle.
A couple of things real quickly. One site is a government site but if you look at some of the footnotes in what I provided, they are articles in journals such as the American Journal of Epidemiology.

You are right that it's difficult to get quality data, but if you cite a statistic, it should be based on available data; would it be useful to calculate probability of contracting hiv given multiple risk factors and more details about the nature of the acts and the members of the cohorts? Yes, but you may not have data to analyze such specific risk factors, in which case, you might say why there is reason to believe the real probability is less or more but you can't say by how much.

Finally, I believe you are conflating the odds of hiv per act versus what the odds are cumulatively based on many acts. The same principle applies to your lottery example...

[Ts RedVeX]

OK, Trish, you got me on this one. The lottery is not the best example. It still does not explain what those tables actually show.

[trish]

Trish, I would like you to give me the title of the book that teaches thah probability works the way you suggest... It does not matter how many times you play the lottery, or how many tickets you buy, the probability of winning remains the same.

Consider something really simple: coin flipping. Given a fair coin the probability of tossing a Heads is 1/2. Suppose you toss it and you in fact get Heads the first time. The probability that you get Heads on the second toss is also 1/2 (successive coin tossings are generally regarded as independent events). Each time you toss the coin the probability of getting a Heads is 1/2.

Now suppose you start with a fair coin. You agree to toss it twice and record the result (Heads or Tails) each time. We’ll write HH, if you get Heads both times. HT if you get a heads on the first toss and tails on the second. We’ll write TH if vice-versa, and we’ll write TT if both tosses give you Tails. Before you even begin tossing you can ask (and answer) the question, “What is the probability that I’ll get Heads on each toss?” There are four possible outcomes HH, HT, TH and TT. The probability is one chance in four; i.e. 1/4.

Instead suppose you decided to toss the coin three times in a row. Now the possibilities are HHH, HHT, HTH, HTT, THH, THT, TTH, TTT. So the probability of tossing three Heads in a row starting with the first toss is one chance in eight, or 1/8. This is also the probability of tossing three Tails in a row. Also notice the probability of tossing at least one Head is 7/8.

In general, imagine a simple random experiment, like tossing a coin or playing some other game of chance where the outcome is binary - say Infected or NotInfected - and imagine you perform the experiment exactly N times. If the outcomes are independent each time you do the experiment the probability of outcome NotInfected is the same each time you perform the experiment - say q. So the probability the result is NotInfected each and every time; i.e. N times in a row is, q to the Nth power which I’ll denote by (q^N). So the probability of getting Infected at least once is (1-(q^N)).

Actual life can be a good deal more complex than a game. No two sexual encounters, even between the same two people are the same and so the quantity q may change from encounter to encounter. One can sometimes substitute in the above technique an average q or a minimal value for q to obtain conservative predictions.

CORRECTION: Also in the example of the lottery ticket I was wrong because those experimental outcomes are not independent. For example, if there is only one winning ticket and if 0.01 is the probability that any given ticket is the winning ticket, then there must have been only one hundred tickets to begin with. If I buy all one hundred tickets, I’ll for sure get the winning ticket.

[blackchubby38]

Ok I'm not going to get into each comment here - other than to say, among the girls that spoke out, there were only two which had genuine complaints.
The others were general bickering and trying to create mischief (something both Jamie and Chelsea Pug excel in doing).

The industry is problematic and addressing it is important, even in the way it's being done here. I think there may be problems the way some producers work and that may also need addressing, but also look at the actual accusations and separate genuine complaints from just people who dislike him.

Given what has been happening in Hollywood, the media, and politics recently, I had a feeling that we would begin to hear stories about abuse from performers in the porn industry. I think it is important to address those issues as well. But the only thing I will add is part of the post that I made in another thread:

"I think what's happening is the line is being blurred between what's immoral and what's illegal. What should be settled in a criminal case and what could probably be settled in either civil court or with an apology. What charge ends a career and which one doesn't. Both the mainstream and social media are responsible for this because how fast these stories are coming in. We are at the point where there's a least one a day and depending on how famous the person is or how severe the charges are, the story can last for quite some time.

I think its important for the mainstream media to do its due diligence and try to distinguish and differentiate between each case to make sure the wrong people aren't caught up in the frenzy. Mob justice whether its in real life or on the internet is very a dangerous thing to be on the receiving end of".

While that post applied to the role of the media in the allegations of sexual misconduct, I think a portion of it can be applied to how these things should be handled in the porn industry. If a person's career is going to come to an end, I want make sure its for a genuine complaint and not for a misunderstanding or because that person is disliked.

[SanDiegoPervySage]

Given what has been happening in Hollywood, the media, and politics recently, I had a feeling that we would begin to hear stories about abuse from performers in the porn industry. I think it is important to address those issues as well. But the only thing I will add is part of the post that I made in another thread:

"I think what's happening is the line is being blurred between what's immoral and what's illegal. What should be settled in a criminal case and what could probably be settled in either civil court or with an apology. What charge ends a career and which one doesn't. Both the mainstream and social media are responsible for this because how fast these stories are coming in. We are at the point where there's a least one a day and depending on how famous the person is or how severe the charges are, the story can last for quite some time.

I think its important for the mainstream media to do its due diligence and try to distinguish and differentiate between each case to make sure the wrong people aren't caught up in the frenzy. Mob justice whether its in real life or on the internet is very a dangerous thing to be on the receiving end of".

While that post applied to the role of the media in the allegations of sexual misconduct, I think a portion of it can be applied to how these things should be handled in the porn industry. If a person's career is going to come to an end, I want make sure its for a genuine complaint and not for a misunderstanding or because that person is disliked.

James Deen got accused by a number of big name performers a couple years ago. Not sure how his career is fairing right now but a lot of people cut ties with him when the allegations first surfaced. Legally, I'm guessing nothing has taken place either. I forgot the name of the director, but Tori Black had also accused that director of abuse on set. Nikki Benz also came out a while back stalking about on set abuse. Not really physical abuse in the violent sense but definitely abuse of someone's trust, Mr. Marcus had a reputation among lots of performers for "accidentally" cumming in women without their consent.

[MrsKellyPierce]

What porn sites did you shoot for?

I never had sex with my producers to get a job lol

There is no casting couch..try out period as far as I know..

You either have a bad scene or you don't...lol

The fans will determine your fate..

And there is professionalism on set as well..I never did stuff with my scene partner when the camera turned off..Giovanni you have a delusional view of how porn is shot lol

Nor have any trans producers/male talent I worked for touched me outside the shoot or when the camera was off..

[Ts RedVeX]

You were right in reference to the lottery. I did not specify how many tickets were available. I only specified the probability of winning, so you could have possibly been right. The reason why it was not a good example was exactly that it would not reflect the fact that Christian does not shoot only with HIV positive people and that he shoots with different models most of the time, so they have to be considered (mostly) independent events.

Anyways, I would not believe anything one reads on-line without at least a bit of processing the info beforehand, which was meant to be my point originally.

[MrsKellyPierce]

As far as Christian goes I can only speak from my own experience with him. We have fought online etc, but when I met him in person he was polite and didn't take photos of me like he does to put girls on his blog cause I asked him not to. He respected my choice.

As far as the other girls..I can't speak for them or defend them cause I don't know the situations..and can only speak from my own views.

Christian can be aggressive to get a scene shot with said girl, but still that's not sexual harassment.

[blackchubby38]

James Deen got accused by a number of big name performers a couple years ago. Not sure how his career is fairing right now but a lot of people cut ties with him when the allegations first surfaced. Legally, I'm guessing nothing has taken place either. I forgot the name of the director, but Tori Black had also accused that director of abuse on set. Nikki Benz also came out a while back stalking about on set abuse. Not really physical abuse in the violent sense but definitely abuse of someone's trust, Mr. Marcus had a reputation among lots of performers for "accidentally" cumming in women without their consent.

I had heard about the accusations against James Dean before and debated bringing it up in my initial post.

[Ben in LA]

Yup the James Deen situation and Nikki Benz vs Tony D popped into my head as well. I don’t think it affected either of the dude’s careers. In fact, Deen was at the AVN Awards later that year.

[Torris]

James Deen got accused by a number of big name performers a couple years ago. Not sure how his career is fairing right now but a lot of people cut ties with him when the allegations first surfaced. Legally, I'm guessing nothing has taken place either. I forgot the name of the director, but Tori Black had also accused that director of abuse on set. Nikki Benz also came out a while back stalking about on set abuse. Not really physical abuse in the violent sense but definitely abuse of someone's trust, Mr. Marcus had a reputation among lots of performers for "accidentally" cumming in women without their consent.


Mr. Clean is no James Deen lol.

But let us not forget the old Hedgehog. Ron Jeremy thinks it is his god given right to pull a starlet’s tit out of her top and begin suckling like a newborn at any and all porn gatherings

[filghy2]

The probability according to the cdc of contracting hiv from insertive anal is 11 per 10,000. This is a little bit more likely than 1 in a 1000.

To put it simply, that means that if you had unprotected sex 1000 times then on average you could expect to contract hiv. The probability for receptive sex is much higher at 138 per 10,000. That means that if you had unprotected sex only 72 times then on average you could expect to contract hiv.

To be clear, though, these statistics are based on averages across the population sample, so they are equivalent to the situation where you know nothing about the other person. If you know your partner has recently tested negative then the risks would be much lower. Of course, there could be other factors that go the other way.

[dreamon]

In my own life I practice safe sex. However, if others are comfortable with unprotected sex, it doesn't really matter what the likelihood of disease or wanted pregnancy is- that is their choice, and I can respect that. That is my issue right there - it is someone's choice to have protected or unprotected sex. Pressuring or harassing someone to do something they are not comfortable with is inappropriate in my opinion, particularly when it is in relation to something as intimate as sex.

[trish]

In my own life I practice safe sex. However, if others are comfortable with unprotected sex, it doesn't really matter what the likelihood of disease or wanted pregnancy is- that is their choice, and I can respect that. That is my issue right there - it is someone's choice to have protected or unprotected sex. Pressuring or harassing someone to do something they are not comfortable with is inappropriate in my opinion, particularly when it is in relation to something as intimate as sex.

I would think this is not just your choice but also something you have to decide along with your partner, or partners. No matter how independent and individual we think we are, the consequences of our actions connect us to others. I do agree that there’s no point in badgering anyone who is fully aware of the risks that they and their partners are taking...but I do think it’s appropriate to inform anyone of those risks if there’s reason to believe they are unaware of them.



To put it simply, that means that if you had unprotected sex 1000 times then on average you could expect to contract hiv. The probability for receptive sex is much higher at 138 per 10,000. That means that if you had unprotected sex only 72 times then on average you could expect to contract hiv.

To be clear, though, these statistics are based on averages across the population sample, so they are equivalent to the situation where you know nothing about the other person. If you know your partner has recently tested negative then the risks would be much lower. Of course, there could be other factors that go the other way.

Roughly correct. Please allow me to tweak it a bit. If 1000 uninfected people had unprotected sex with an infected partner, the statistic predicts 1.1 people (on average) will contract the infection. On average means that we imagine the experiment (involving a different set 1001 people each time) is performed N times and the results averaged. The probability of one person becoming infected.
The figure 11/10000 is taken to be the independent probability that you will contract the HIV virus if you have one unprotected sexual encounter with an HIV infected partner. The probability of not acquiring the virus is 1-11/10000 = 9989/10000. This is the q I referred to in post #92. So the probability that you will acquire the virus after having 1000 unprotected encounters is (1-(9989/10000)^1000). This works out to be a little more than 0.667 ; i.e. there’s a 66.7% chance you’ll be infected.

[Ts RedVeX]

Hey, let's come back to our tables for a second :D It says in this one: https://www.aidsmap.com/Estimated-risk-per-exposure/page/1324038/#item1324093


Receptive anal sex amongst gay men, partner HIV positive
0.82% (1:123)


This means that you need to multiply that 0.0082 by the chance of actually encountering an HIV-positive person. If I am to believe this: https://www.hiv.gov/hiv-basics/overview/data-and-trends/global-statistics The probability of encountering someone who has HIV is roughly 0.00734 (considering a very bad case with population of only 7 billion and 51.6 million infected people)
All in all, the probability of encountering and contracting HIV is 0.006% so 6 in 100000 xd I think that table is part of some sort of anti-gay propaganda, because right above the 0.82% it says:


Receptive anal sex amongst gay men, partner unknown status
0.27% (1:370)


Which would suggest that pretty much only gay men have HIV... Let's see then. if half of the population are men and 4% of them are gay and all the 51 million HIV positive are within that group, then the probability of encountering an HIV positive gay man is 0.367. multiply that my the 0.82% and you get 0.3% That is just too damn close to the 0.27%... Especially that if you instead apply the current population of 7.6billion to that very anti-gay way of calculating the probability, you get exactly 0.27%.

Perfect example of homophobic communist propaganda.

[KelliBlueEyes]

I would think this is not just your choice but also something you have to decide along with your partner, or partners. No matter how independent and individual we think we are, the consequences of our actions connect us to others. I do agree that there’s no point in badgering anyone who is fully aware of the risks that they and their partners are taking...but I do think it’s appropriate to inform anyone of those risks if there’s reason to believe they are unaware of them.




Roughly correct. Please allow me to tweak it a bit. If 1000 uninfected people had unprotected sex with an infected partner, the statistic predicts 1.1 people (on average) will contract the infection. On average means that we imagine the experiment (involving a different set 1001 people each time) is performed N times and the results averaged. The probability of one person becoming infected.
The figure 11/10000 is taken to be the independent probability that you will contract the HIV virus if you have one unprotected sexual encounter with an HIV infected partner. The probability of not acquiring the virus is 1-11/10000 = 9989/10000. This is the q I referred to in post #92. So the probability that you will acquire the virus after having 1000 unprotected encounters is (1-(9989/10000)^1000). This works out to be a little more than 0.667 ; i.e. there’s a 66.7% chance you’ll be infected.

Those numbers work well for calculating the risk of hiv infection in any random encounter, or cumulatively with multiple random partners. But aren't we really talking about sex with trans people? Among whom the CDC claims 22% are HIV+

https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/gender/transgender/index.html

Probably the percentage of trans sex workers who are HIV+ is higher than this.

[trish]

I’ll be brief as this thread is already way off track. The independent probability of you in particular acquiring the HIV virus via a single sexual encounter depends on you, your sexual behaviors and those of your pool of partners. The formula in post #92 shows that however small that probability is, all things being equal over time, the probability that you will acquire the virus rises with the number of your sexual encounters and asymptotically approaches certainty. The CDC stats are objective and as accurate as possible. Were they attempting to spread homophobia and communism there would be more effective methods than posting charts, numbers and graphs on an obscure government website. Their concern is to provide researchers and policy makers agencies accurate epidemiological data.
Now back to the relevant topic: Christian, his accusers and his defenders. Please.

[LittleGuy]

Not related to this thread but I sexually harass my penis several times a week

[Gillian]

... the probability that you will acquire the virus rises with the number of your sexual encounters and asymptotically approaches certainty.
I love a girl who knows her asymptotes from her tangents ... ;)

[trish]

Not related to this thread but I sexually harass my penis several times a week
Poor thing. You're lucky it hasn't leaked to the media, adding to the daily drip, drip, drip of these horrid stories. On the other hand, maybe it's your penis that sexually harassing you. These things are sticky you know - oops! - I mean tricky - eww - gotta go.

[smalltownguy]

Not related to this thread but I sexually harass my penis several times a week

great...

[whamm]

...Now back to the relevant topic: Christian, his accusers and his defenders. Please.

I can’t help but notice that Christian issued no denial. Just a few words to the effect that if you work with a lot of people some won’t like you.

It would be cool to read a clear cut “I didn’t do that,” or alternatively “Shit! I didn’t realize what I did would be taken that way. I won’t do it again.”

Of course, Christian isn’t accountable to me.

[filghy2]

So the probability that you will acquire the virus after having 1000 unprotected encounters is (1-(9989/10000)^1000). This works out to be a little more than 0.667 ; i.e. there’s a 66.7% chance you’ll be infected.

Aha, so it takes only 630 unprotected encounters for the probability of being infected to rise above 50%. I guess I should have been thinking in terms of geometric averages rather than arithmetic.

[MrFanti]

Great data point....


Those numbers work well for calculating the risk of hiv infection in any random encounter, or cumulatively with multiple random partners. But aren't we really talking about sex with trans people? Among whom the CDC claims 22% are HIV+

https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/gender/transgender/index.html

Probably the percentage of trans sex workers who are HIV+ is higher than this.

[Michelle Firestone]

This is bullshit. Christian is not an abuser.

I read everything.

A lot of complaining about money/business. If you embark on a career in entertainment, there WILL be disagreements about $$$ and promises, if you don’t like how a person or company does things, don’t work with them. Nobody is forcing you to work with anyone. Condoms/sex acts/whatever. You can always say no and go home. At any time. It’s that simple.

A lot of not saying no and expecting him to read your mind. If anyone crosses any kind of personal line with you, whether it’s sex, drugs, hurt feelings, disrespect, or whatever, if you don’t protest or leave, how are they supposed to know? If you say no, and they keep touching you, then that’s different, but if you don’t communicate, how can they know?

A lot of not liking his attitude. Which if he offends you so much, don’t film, leave. Offending =/= abuse.

Nobody is forcing you to have sex w/Christian. Even if he was the only man making trans porn. You can go make your own porn.

It’s a myth that everyone has problems with Christian. I never had any issues negotiating with him. Even when I didn’t agree to his terms. He was just like, “Ok let me know if you change your mind.” Simple. If you don’t come at him with attitude, he won’t give you any. A lot of girls seem to refuse his offers then insult him, call him arrogant, etc. then expect him to be unphased and be perfectly polite in return. Which I think he does a pretty good job doing actually.

I’ve met him in person a few times as well and I’ve had no issues with him then either. All good times.

[smalltownguy]

This is bullshit. Christian is not an abuser.

I read everything.

A lot of complaining about money/business. If you embark on a career in entertainment, there WILL be disagreements about $$$ and promises, if you don’t like how a person or company does things, don’t work with them. Nobody is forcing you to work with anyone. Condoms/sex acts/whatever. You can always say no and go home. At any time. It’s that simple.

A lot of not saying no and expecting him to read your mind. If anyone crosses any kind of personal line with you, whether it’s sex, drugs, hurt feelings, disrespect, or whatever, if you don’t protest or leave, how are they supposed to know? If you say no, and they keep touching you, then that’s different, but if you don’t communicate, how can they know?

A lot of not liking his attitude. Which if he offends you so much, don’t film, leave. Offending =/= abuse.

Nobody is forcing you to have sex w/Christian. Even if he was the only man making trans porn. You can go make your own porn.

It’s a myth that everyone has problems with Christian. I never had any issues negotiating with him. Even when I didn’t agree to his terms. He was just like, “Ok let me know if you change your mind.” Simple. If you don’t come at him with attitude, he won’t give you any. A lot of girls seem to refuse his offers then insult him, call him arrogant, etc. then expect him to be unphased and be perfectly polite in return. Which I think he does a pretty good job doing actually.

I’ve met him in person a few times as well and I’ve had no issues with him then either. All good times.

cool

[smalltownguy]

This is bullshit. Christian is not an abuser.

I read everything.

A lot of complaining about money/business. If you embark on a career in entertainment, there WILL be disagreements about $$$ and promises, if you don’t like how a person or company does things, don’t work with them. Nobody is forcing you to work with anyone. Condoms/sex acts/whatever. You can always say no and go home. At any time. It’s that simple.

A lot of not saying no and expecting him to read your mind. If anyone crosses any kind of personal line with you, whether it’s sex, drugs, hurt feelings, disrespect, or whatever, if you don’t protest or leave, how are they supposed to know? If you say no, and they keep touching you, then that’s different, but if you don’t communicate, how can they know?

A lot of not liking his attitude. Which if he offends you so much, don’t film, leave. Offending =/= abuse.

Nobody is forcing you to have sex w/Christian. Even if he was the only man making trans porn. You can go make your own porn.

It’s a myth that everyone has problems with Christian. I never had any issues negotiating with him. Even when I didn’t agree to his terms. He was just like, “Ok let me know if you change your mind.” Simple. If you don’t come at him with attitude, he won’t give you any. A lot of girls seem to refuse his offers then insult him, call him arrogant, etc. then expect him to be unphased and be perfectly polite in return. Which I think he does a pretty good job doing actually.

I’ve met him in person a few times as well and I’ve had no issues with him then either. All good times.

very honest ...thanks

[filghy2]

Which would suggest that pretty much only gay men have HIV... Let's see then. if half of the population are men and 4% of them are gay and all the 51 million HIV positive are within that group, then the probability of encountering an HIV positive gay man is 0.367. multiply that my the 0.82% and you get 0.3% That is just too damn close to the 0.27%... Especially that if you instead apply the current population of 7.6billion to that very anti-gay way of calculating the probability, you get exactly 0.27%. Perfect example of homophobic communist propaganda.

Nice try, but why are you using the 51m figure when the link you provided clearly says 36.7m? More importantly, you miss the point that these probabilities are for men having unprotected anal sex, not for all gay men. The risk of someone in the category being infected will obviously be much higher than for the gay population as a whole (the figures imply it is 0.27/0.82=33%).

[fred41]

A lot of not saying no and expecting him to read your mind. If anyone crosses any kind of personal line with you, whether it’s sex, drugs, hurt feelings, disrespect, or whatever, if you don’t protest or leave, how are they supposed to know? If you say no, and they keep touching you, then that’s different, but if you don’t communicate, how can they know?


Except, and I'm not saying anything happened, I don't know...verbal communication works both ways. You're supposed to see if it's okay before you start pawing someone else's body. In the real world, you can't just start pawing someone's body or take your dick out before there's a signal that it's okay. That's how the real world is supposed to work.

[SanDiegoPervySage]

This is bullshit. Christian is not an abuser.

I read everything.

A lot of complaining about money/business. If you embark on a career in entertainment, there WILL be disagreements about $$$ and promises, if you don’t like how a person or company does things, don’t work with them. Nobody is forcing you to work with anyone. Condoms/sex acts/whatever. You can always say no and go home. At any time. It’s that simple.

A lot of not saying no and expecting him to read your mind. If anyone crosses any kind of personal line with you, whether it’s sex, drugs, hurt feelings, disrespect, or whatever, if you don’t protest or leave, how are they supposed to know? If you say no, and they keep touching you, then that’s different, but if you don’t communicate, how can they know?

A lot of not liking his attitude. Which if he offends you so much, don’t film, leave. Offending =/= abuse.

Nobody is forcing you to have sex w/Christian. Even if he was the only man making trans porn. You can go make your own porn.

It’s a myth that everyone has problems with Christian. I never had any issues negotiating with him. Even when I didn’t agree to his terms. He was just like, “Ok let me know if you change your mind.” Simple. If you don’t come at him with attitude, he won’t give you any. A lot of girls seem to refuse his offers then insult him, call him arrogant, etc. then expect him to be unphased and be perfectly polite in return. Which I think he does a pretty good job doing actually.

I’ve met him in person a few times as well and I’ve had no issues with him then either. All good times.

Verbal and non verbal cues given. Lets not act like body language is no longer taken into consideration.


"I'd prefer not to mention everything he did, but one thing that angered me quite a bit was the choking. The universal sign to ease up on choking is a tap, I tapped Christian several times and he didn't stop choking me."-Oriana Frost

"We got into his car and he immediately tried kissing me, french kissing me. I pulled away and he took me to my hotel (that I had to pay for)."-Oriana Frost

"There, after a god damn ten hour flight that should have been 5 hours max, he explained that he needed to film a "teaser" for the videos. I declined because I looked and felt like hell. He kept persisting and I relented, at no time was I told that this "teaser" would be sold, he described in such a way that it seemed very much like a trailer for the scenes."-Oriana Frost

"During this wait Christian approached me again, grabbed me by the waist and tried making out with me. I pushed away and told him that I wasn't interested in doing anything I wasn't hired for, and that I would wait for Damien. Christian said, "It wouldn't kill you to be affectionate." To which I replied, "I will be when we start filming." Christian walked away and was distant and sulky for the majority of the day."-Oriana Frost

[Post Op Preferred]

HA has an abundance of number crunching talent in Red Vex, Kelli Blu and Trish. So here's another crunch, with input from CXXX requested. We have 8 complaints. CXXX, how many different talents have appeared on your T-ecosystem inception to date. If any others want to voice complaints, let them speak or forever hold their peace. Let Grooby Steven weigh in on whether CXXX's complaints ratio is out of line with industry standards. If he is, I suspect he'll figure out a solution, being the savvy marketer that he is. And let's stop vilifying industry participants for speaking on this. Sex harassment complaints in porn are a new frontier. Mistakes will be made, and hopefully will be rectified, not punished.

[Michelle Firestone]

Verbal and non verbal cues given. Lets not act like body language is no longer taken into consideration.


"I'd prefer not to mention everything he did, but one thing that angered me quite a bit was the choking. The universal sign to ease up on choking is a tap, I tapped Christian several times and he didn't stop choking me."-Oriana Frost

"We got into his car and he immediately tried kissing me, french kissing me. I pulled away and he took me to my hotel (that I had to pay for)."-Oriana Frost

"There, after a god damn ten hour flight that should have been 5 hours max, he explained that he needed to film a "teaser" for the videos. I declined because I looked and felt like hell. He kept persisting and I relented, at no time was I told that this "teaser" would be sold, he described in such a way that it seemed very much like a trailer for the scenes."-Oriana Frost

"During this wait Christian approached me again, grabbed me by the waist and tried making out with me. I pushed away and told him that I wasn't interested in doing anything I wasn't hired for, and that I would wait for Damien. Christian said, "It wouldn't kill you to be affectionate." To which I replied, "I will be when we start filming." Christian walked away and was distant and sulky for the majority of the day."-Oriana Frost

So rejected kisses and asking someone you hired to film to shoot a teaser is rape ? Oriana’s entire story is filled with complaints from having to pay for her own hotel to not liking how Christian’s ass feels. Really. Is that part of the abuse? That you don’t like how the inside of his ass feels? It’s easy to tell she’s reaching for every possible angle to smear Christian but there’s no real abuse. So then she writes this long long very long story framing the entire experience as holistically unpleasant to make him seem like a monster.

In her story he can’t win. He tries to kiss her, she rejects him. Then the very next sentence is how he was “distant and sulky” the rest of the day. Cmon. That’s the most loaded negative way to write that he left you alone like you asked.

[SanDiegoPervySage]

So rejected kisses and asking someone you hired to film to shoot a teaser is rape ? Oriana’s entire story is filled with complaints from having to pay for her own hotel to not liking how Christian’s ass feels. Really. Is that part of the abuse? That you don’t like how the inside of his ass feels? It’s easy to tell she’s reaching for every possible angle to smear Christian but there’s no real abuse. So then she writes this long long very long story framing the entire experience as holistically unpleasant to make him seem like a monster.

In her story he can’t win. He tries to kiss her, she rejects him. Then the very next sentence is how he was “distant and sulky” the rest of the day. Cmon. That’s the most loaded negative way to write that he left you alone like you asked.

When did I say rape? Your quote, "sex, drugs, hurt feelings, disrespect, or whatever" obviously implies anything from being unprofessionally annoying to full on ignoring one's physical limitations. You clearly chose ignore the other parts of her story as well as focus on full on rape even though that's not what your quote was limited to. You chose to ignore the choking incident and focus on the hotel incident trying to make Oriana seem as petty as possible even after I listed specific quotes. If she's reaching for the abuse claims, you're about 20 times as worse by ignoring whats right in front of your face by trying to defend him.

Of course she rejected his kiss. They weren't filming at the time. "Distant and sulky" is hardly loaded when you have more serious accusations in the story.

Your positive experience doesn't negate anyone else's negative experience.

Also, this is a smaller issue compared to physically violating one's consent, but since when is being upset about the person who hired you not following through on their financial obligations(hotel, food, etc.) a bad thing? Since when is a lack of professionalism something to not be upset about?

[SanDiegoPervySage]

HA has an abundance of number crunching talent in Red Vex, Kelli Blu and Trish. So here's another crunch, with input from CXXX requested. We have 8 complaints. CXXX, how many different talents have appeared on your T-ecosystem inception to date. If any others want to voice complaints, let them speak or forever hold their peace. Let Grooby Steven weigh in on whether CXXX's complaints ratio is out of line with industry standards. If he is, I suspect he'll figure out a solution, being the savvy marketer that he is. And let's stop vilifying industry participants for speaking on this. Sex harassment complaints in porn are a new frontier. Mistakes will be made, and hopefully will be rectified, not punished.
"forever hold their peace"

What?...


"Mistakes"


What?...

[GroobySteven]

Let Grooby Steven weigh in on whether CXXX's complaints ratio is out of line with industry standards. If he is, I suspect he'll figure out a solution, being the savvy marketer that he is.

I'm not qualified to discuss anything other than my own companies or my own personal experiences.
Overall we get very little complaints over the male performers or producers that have worked for us over the years. With Some producers have swiftly exited the company during that time.
10,000 or more models worked with, many multiple times.

[xplanetx]

I've heard favorable and disparaging things about CXXX over the years. Don't really read to much into it because most the time it all boils down to one thing. Being a victim. I'm not taking anything away from what the experiences the girls may or may not have had nor am I condemning anyone. In today's society, being a victim seems like a profession. Why? Because by being a victim, a person is not held accountable for their behavior and poor life decisions. When someone is embracing the victim mentality and seeing the world as a threat, where people are doing things "to them" rather than just doing them despite the fact that someone else doesn't prefer it, it is, in a way, a form of narcissism. The person is unable to understand how he or she was not too important to treat this way, or centers themselves in what they imagine to be the other person's thought process, i.e.: girl didn't enjoy doing a scene with him, says nothing. The flood of #metoo accusations is getting bigger and gaining speed. Girl digs deep into her memory to find any situation that could be used and twisted so she can be #metoo. Might as well say "There must be some reason for (career failure/no work/shitty pay etc), I dont want it to be merit-based, so I'm going to say you're being evil to me thats why I'm screwed"

On a side note: How do I like or unlike someones post. I don't see any like button or thumbs up/down.

[Toadily]

This thread is coming across as a bunch of drama queens acting like drama queens.

[Lester316]

I've heard favorable and disparaging things about CXXX over the years. Don't really read to much into it because most the time it all boils down to one thing. Being a victim. I'm not taking anything away from what the experiences the girls may or may not have had nor am I condemning anyone. In today's society, being a victim seems like a profession. Why? Because by being a victim, a person is not held accountable for their behavior and poor life decisions. When someone is embracing the victim mentality and seeing the world as a threat, where people are doing things "to them" rather than just doing them despite the fact that someone else doesn't prefer it, it is, in a way, a form of narcissism. The person is unable to understand how he or she was not too important to treat this way, or centers themselves in what they imagine to be the other person's thought process, i.e.: girl didn't enjoy doing a scene with him, says nothing. The flood of #metoo accusations is getting bigger and gaining speed. Girl digs deep into her memory to find any situation that could be used and twisted so she can be #metoo. Might as well say "There must be some reason for (career failure/no work/shitty pay etc), I dont want it to be merit-based, so I'm going to say you're being evil to me thats why I'm screwed"

On a side note: How do I like or unlike someones post. I don't see any like button or thumbs up/down.

Regardless of what the actual situation is with these performers and Christian (only they will ever know the real truth I believe) I just wanted to point out that you have immediately contradicted yourself in what you have said.

I suspect you have never been the victim of any abuse (or realised you were yet) as your words show a complete lack of empathy for any one who has suffered from it. Being a victim is not a "profession" and victims aren't narcissists; your suggestion that is what victims are implies you are quite a cold and unfeeling individual - I pity you for that.

[Michelle Firestone]

When did I say rape? Your quote, "sex, drugs, hurt feelings, disrespect, or whatever" obviously implies anything from being unprofessionally annoying to full on ignoring one's physical limitations. You clearly chose ignore the other parts of her story as well as focus on full on rape even though that's not what your quote was limited to. You chose to ignore the choking incident and focus on the hotel incident trying to make Oriana seem as petty as possible even after I listed specific quotes. If she's reaching for the abuse claims, you're about 20 times as worse by ignoring whats right in front of your face by trying to defend him.

Of course she rejected his kiss. They weren't filming at the time. "Distant and sulky" is hardly loaded when you have more serious accusations in the story.

Your positive experience doesn't negate anyone else's negative experience.

Also, this is a smaller issue compared to physically violating one's consent, but since when is being upset about the person who hired you not following through on their financial obligations(hotel, food, etc.) a bad thing? Since when is a lack of professionalism something to not be upset about?

I’m not ignoring it. Choking is a part of porn. So is ass to mouth and slapping. I don’t believe Christian would purposely choke too long or after tapping out. She included the chair being uncomfortable like it’s an offense to her by Christian himself. Plus tons of other inconsequential things. With the context and tone of her story I feel like any choking at all would be described later as too much and malicious. No matter what actually happened.

Yes absolutely I’m saying she is being as petty as possible. That’s what she’s doing. You don’t find what they’re doing disparaging to victims of actual abuse? No, it’s not ok to not pay someone. Yes, it’s ok to tell people he didn’t pay what he said. That’s obvious. I don’t care to talk about that because they’re calling him an abuser, and I don’t believe it. That’s kinda what I’m focusing on.

She obviously had a bad experience. She said she quit porn right after, so I think it’s safe to say she made the wrong choice to perform in the first place? Or at least if there’s sex acts that are going to instantly turn the situation from normal everyday scene into emotional distress then she should probably mention it. Or communicate and after the first limit was broken stop and make it clear what is and isn’t ok. Otherwise if you don’t do that, you’ll have a bad time making porn when your limits keep getting broken and no one but you has any idea.

[smalltownguy]

I’m not ignoring it. Choking is a part of porn. So is ass to mouth and slapping. I don’t believe Christian would purposely choke too long or after tapping out. She included the chair being uncomfortable like it’s an offense to her by Christian himself. Plus tons of other inconsequential things. With the context and tone of her story I feel like any choking at all would be described later as too much and malicious. No matter what actually happened.

Yes absolutely I’m saying she is being as petty as possible. That’s what she’s doing. You don’t find what they’re doing disparaging to victims of actual abuse? No, it’s not ok to not pay someone. Yes, it’s ok to tell people he didn’t pay what he said. That’s obvious. I don’t care to talk about that because they’re calling him an abuser, and I don’t believe it. That’s kinda what I’m focusing on.

She obviously had a bad experience. She said she quit porn right after, so I think it’s safe to say she made the wrong choice to perform in the first place? Or at least if there’s sex acts that are going to instantly turn the situation from normal everyday scene into emotional distress then she should probably mention it. Or communicate and after the first limit was broken stop and make it clear what is and isn’t ok. Otherwise if you don’t do that, you’ll have a bad time making porn when your limits keep getting broken and no one but you has any idea.

ver nice michelle ... i like your views on porn . they are brilliant

[DaphneCruz]

I kinda know Christian... not personally but Ive known the guy for like 10 years online and I always hear him getting shit. Forum posters acting like they know the guy from what they "know" from what they have read online. Which means nothing. Unless you know the guy personally, just shut up.

[SanDiegoPervySage]

I’m not ignoring it. Choking is a part of porn. So is ass to mouth and slapping. I don’t believe Christian would purposely choke too long or after tapping out. She included the chair being uncomfortable like it’s an offense to her by Christian himself. Plus tons of other inconsequential things. With the context and tone of her story I feel like any choking at all would be described later as too much and malicious. No matter what actually happened.

Yes absolutely I’m saying she is being as petty as possible. That’s what she’s doing. You don’t find what they’re doing disparaging to victims of actual abuse? No, it’s not ok to not pay someone. Yes, it’s ok to tell people he didn’t pay what he said. That’s obvious. I don’t care to talk about that because they’re calling him an abuser, and I don’t believe it. That’s kinda what I’m focusing on.

She obviously had a bad experience. She said she quit porn right after, so I think it’s safe to say she made the wrong choice to perform in the first place? Or at least if there’s sex acts that are going to instantly turn the situation from normal everyday scene into emotional distress then she should probably mention it. Or communicate and after the first limit was broken stop and make it clear what is and isn’t ok. Otherwise if you don’t do that, you’ll have a bad time making porn when your limits keep getting broken and no one but you has any idea.

Choking is apart of porn just like DPs, spitting or hard spanking is apart of porn. Not everyone does those acts because not everyone likes it. And again, your experience doesn't negate hers. You don't believe he would go overboard with the choking, but Oriana's story says otherwise. Whether they are true or not is another story but I'm looking at applying her experience universally. Regardless of intent, the responsibility still falls on him. He's supposed to meet her halfway. She did her part(she tapped), he did not (he didn't let up). He either didn't care or he was so into the moment and detached from her that it just didn't register. Either way, it is inexcusable on his part. Supposed pettiness aside, you can still pick out several of the more serious issues.

You discounting her accounts by pulling the "what about 'real' victims?" shows how far you are willing to go to excuse his behavior. Ignoring someone's physical limitations/consent is abuse.

"Wrong choice" is not because of her. She wasn't the offender. That's like saying Nancy Kerrigan made a mistake by pursuing ice skating in the Olympics because Tanya Harding had someone kneecap her and then Nancy getting on television and saying Tonya's ice skates were and ugly color. It doesn't matter if there are a few petty things sprinkled in there. Real issues are still at the forefront.

Like I mentioned before, she expressed her displeasure verbally(telling him that she's not doing anything that didn't pertain to the scene on camera) and physically (pushing him away when he tried to kiss her, tapping him when he choked her). She made her feelings clear. You say you aren't ignoring it but if you don't see the clarity in some of her boundaries, then you are.

[LongTom101]

I’m not ignoring it. Choking is a part of porn. So is ass to mouth and slapping. I don’t believe Christian would purposely choke too long or after tapping out. She included the chair being uncomfortable like it’s an offense to her by Christian himself. Plus tons of other inconsequential things. With the context and tone of her story I feel like any choking at all would be described later as too much and malicious. No matter what actually happened.

Yes absolutely I’m saying she is being as petty as possible. That’s what she’s doing. You don’t find what they’re doing disparaging to victims of actual abuse? No, it’s not ok to not pay someone. Yes, it’s ok to tell people he didn’t pay what he said. That’s obvious. I don’t care to talk about that because they’re calling him an abuser, and I don’t believe it. That’s kinda what I’m focusing on.

She obviously had a bad experience. She said she quit porn right after, so I think it’s safe to say she made the wrong choice to perform in the first place? Or at least if there’s sex acts that are going to instantly turn the situation from normal everyday scene into emotional distress then she should probably mention it. Or communicate and after the first limit was broken stop and make it clear what is and isn’t ok. Otherwise if you don’t do that, you’ll have a bad time making porn when your limits keep getting broken and no one but you has any idea.

You'd clearly jump through hoops to defend this asshole, regardless of allegations

[african1]

One word to Christian. Unless you're getting fucked, I ain't watching your videos.

[fred41]

At a webmaster show in London. Will answer over the weekend or earlier when I get a break.

Hi Steven, If you do chose to address this, it might workout better as a post on your blog, since at times this thread gets a little derailed.
For those that haven't clicked on it yet, Steven's blog can be quite informative. Makes a good read.

[Ts RedVeX]

the point about uncomfy chair (and the whole thread) reminds me of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf_Y4MbUCLY&t=279s

[christianxxx]

Choking is apart of porn just like DPs, spitting or hard spanking is apart of porn. Not everyone does those acts because not everyone likes it. And again, your experience doesn't negate hers. You don't believe he would go overboard with the choking, but Oriana's story says otherwise. Whether they are true or not is another story but I'm looking at applying her experience universally. Regardless of intent, the responsibility still falls on him. He's supposed to meet her halfway. She did her part(she tapped), he did not (he didn't let up). He either didn't care or he was so into the moment and detached from her that it just didn't register. Either way, it is inexcusable on his part. Supposed pettiness aside, you can still pick out several of the more serious issues.

You discounting her accounts by pulling the "what about 'real' victims?" shows how far you are willing to go to excuse his behavior. Ignoring someone's physical limitations/consent is abuse.

"Wrong choice" is not because of her. She wasn't the offender. That's like saying Nancy Kerrigan made a mistake by pursuing ice skating in the Olympics because Tanya Harding had someone kneecap her and then Nancy getting on television and saying Tonya's ice skates were and ugly color. It doesn't matter if there are a few petty things sprinkled in there. Real issues are still at the forefront.

Like I mentioned before, she expressed her displeasure verbally(telling him that she's not doing anything that didn't pertain to the scene on camera) and physically (pushing him away when he tried to kiss her, tapping him when he choked her). She made her feelings clear. You say you aren't ignoring it but if you don't see the clarity in some of her boundaries, then you are.

i love how because Oriana Frost said it then it must be 100 percent true. don't ask for the other side of the story, don't look any deeper into it...she said it so its 100 percent a fact. truly the mark of a super fanboi.

i mean oriana frost has no problem going nuts about how terrible the trip was, but then you are supposed to believe that i choked her almost to unconciousness and she just took it and didn't say anything? so she refused to let me kiss her but choking is fine? I also want to point out that these scenes happened about 3 years ago but Oriana somehow remembers every single detail like it was yesterday.

Look I will admit that I booked her for those scenes in some of my first attempts to produce content that I paid for rather than just trading content with other models. She was one of the first girls that I paid for her flight. I made a lot of mistakes on that trip, but one of my mistakes was not realizing Oriana doesn't like men, doesn't like authority, doesn't like anyone telling her what to do, and doesn't like sex in general. I had no idea about any of this because I only met her online. Sometimes as a producer you learn the hard way that some models aren't cut out for this biz. Going to a set where you are about to be intimate and telling someone that you don't want to be intimate isn't really going to make the day better. You do realize that in order to perform a sex scene that the male performer has to have a hard cock right? Try going into a room with a girl that tells you she wants nothing to do with you and then get your dick hard and keep it hard.

[christianxxx]

You'd clearly jump through hoops to defend this asshole, regardless of allegations

haha i've only met her twice briefly and never hired and never worked with her. She is simply stating logical facts and not being a super fanboi like yourself.

[SanDiegoPervySage]

i love how because Oriana Frost said it then it must be 100 percent true. don't ask for the other side of the story, don't look any deeper into it...she said it so its 100 percent a fact. truly the mark of a super fanboi.

i mean oriana frost has no problem going nuts about how terrible the trip was, but then you are supposed to believe that i choked her almost to unconciousness and she just took it and didn't say anything? so she refused to let me kiss her but choking is fine? I also want to point out that these scenes happened about 3 years ago but Oriana somehow remembers every single detail like it was yesterday.

Look I will admit that I booked her for those scenes in some of my first attempts to produce content that I paid for rather than just trading content with other models. She was one of the first girls that I paid for her flight. I made a lot of mistakes on that trip, but one of my mistakes was not realizing Oriana doesn't like men, doesn't like authority, doesn't like anyone telling her what to do, and doesn't like sex in general. I had no idea about any of this because I only met her online. Sometimes as a producer you learn the hard way that some models aren't cut out for this biz. Going to a set where you are about to be intimate and telling someone that you don't want to be intimate isn't really going to make the day better. You do realize that in order to perform a sex scene that the male performer has to have a hard cock right? Try going into a room with a girl that tells you she wants nothing to do with you and then get your dick hard and keep it hard.

Aye, like I said earlier, whether or not Oriana is telling the truth is an entirely different story. As of right now, the screenshots only prove that you are creepy, immature and a diva. And if you haven't noticed, you have some fanboys/fangirls caping for you.

Also, like she mentioned, she tapped you when she was being choked. Everyone knows what tapping means. You don't need to verbalize it(although it certainly would've helped to do that as well). You really think someone can't recall a story from three whole years ago in detail? Especially one that is particularly memorable to the one telling it? In all your years of living, you've never heard anyone recall an event in detail that happened three or more years ago?......Aight man...

And everything else you mentioned, I guess those are the challenges of porn. If her story is true and the initial interaction and the following ones throughout the day before the shoot were as bad as how she presented it, obviously she isn't going to be in an intimate mood. I don't know what to tell you. Finally, just because she isn't into you doesn't mean she isn't into men. She said she's into younger, toned guys.

[whamm]

i love how because Oriana Frost said it then it must be 100 percent true. don't ask for the other side of the story, don't look any deeper into it...she said it so its 100 percent a fact.

Dude, it's not like you haven't had ample opportunity to refute any or all of the allegations. No one is censoring you. No one has declared you guilty. No one has called you a liar.

I AM SURE WE ALL WANT TO HEAR YOUR SIDE OF THE STORY. But you really haven't given it. It's a week since the original post and still, unless I've missed the post, you haven't said straight up, these incidents didn't happen. Or even, a simple, maybe I fucked up.


I made a lot of mistakes on that trip...

Above is the closest you've come to taking any sort of responsibility and that's just to preface saying that Oriana was really at fault because she doesn't like men, etc., etc.

No denial and no taking of responsibility. What are we supposed to think? They're all lying and/or exaggerating and you didn't do any of this shit when (and correct me if I'm wrong) you never said you didn't.

[holzz]

i've seen your work Christian, and i like how you've got many of the top names in TS porn. i don't believe in envy, but youve fucked/been fucked by people i'd anything to fuck/get fucked by.

but then if these allegations aren't true, have you pissed/ticked anybody off? or made enemies? envious people want to fuck you up? either way, get a lawyer, or get them to put up or shut up.

[giovanni_hotel]

i've seen your work Christian, and i like how you've got many of the top names in TS porn. i don't believe in envy, but youve fucked/been fucked by people i'd anything to fuck/get fucked by.

but then if these allegations aren't true, have you pissed/ticked anybody off? or made enemies? envious people want to fuck you up? either way, get a lawyer, or get them to put up or shut up.

LOL. Lawyer for what?? Just notice the crew that's behind these allegations.
That will tell you all you need to know.

[whamm]

Just notice the crew that's behind these allegations.

If you’re going to impugn these women’s characters then provide some evidence.

[GroobySteven]

LOL. Lawyer for what?? Just notice the crew that's behind these allegations.
That will tell you all you need to know.

If he believed the allegations were untrue then there should/could be a number of legal options to look at, including taking a look at Jamie's site on what the intentions are.
These would be costly, to all parties and ultimately even if the allegations were proven to be unfounded and he did win* then it there would still be no winning side. The allegations would always be out there, the legal costs would far outweigh any punitive damages you could expect to get back from the accusers and it would just be a loss/loss.

it sounds the right thing to do, to get lawyers involved if you feel someone is slandering you, but having been on the brunt of enough, and taken action against people, it's rarely worth it.

* hypothetically - I have no first hand knowledge of any of these.

[holzz]

OK

so i've seen posts here citing the allegations (stress..ALLEGATIONS) of him groping girls is "oh, that's nothing!" or "whatever, babe.." or "get over it, girl."

groping is assault. not even sexual assault, but a common assault under the law. in some cases, actually, it is a sexual assault. IF (and IF) these points are true, then it's wrong to do it.

to be fair, i remember Jamie Frenh on this board, and she was a bit of a bitch to be honest, but still doesn't warrant ANYBODy being groped. nobody should face that, no matter who they are.

defending groping, even AS it's an allegation, hahaha. PATHETIC.

[holzz]

LOL. Lawyer for what?? Just notice the crew that's behind these allegations.
That will tell you all you need to know.

I don't know who is true or not.

But it's common sense. if it's a whole load of crap, then christian's business in porn is finished, period. and surely the girls know if they are chatting shit, then THEY are finished.

and wihtout being funny or bad....trans women have enough troubles, without a failed porn career from defamatory comments.....

i'm not defending any side here. the girls made seom pretty serious allegations, and I'm sure christian is smart would weigh up his actions.

[holzz]

So rejected kisses and asking someone you hired to film to shoot a teaser is rape ? Oriana’s entire story is filled with complaints from having to pay for her own hotel to not liking how Christian’s ass feels. Really. Is that part of the abuse? That you don’t like how the inside of his ass feels? It’s easy to tell she’s reaching for every possible angle to smear Christian but there’s no real abuse. So then she writes this long long very long story framing the entire experience as holistically unpleasant to make him seem like a monster.

In her story he can’t win. He tries to kiss her, she rejects him. Then the very next sentence is how he was “distant and sulky” the rest of the day. Cmon. That’s the most loaded negative way to write that he left you alone like you asked.

with all due respect, some of the stories talk about unwanted advances, groping, etc. would you like to be groped? who would?

[GroobySteven]

But it's common sense. if it's a whole load of crap, then christian's business in porn is finished, period. and surely the girls know if they are chatting shit, then THEY are finished.



I wouldn't say either of those things would happen.

[holzz]

so then is it just "they said, he said"?

[GroobySteven]

so then is it just "they said, he said"?

Unless someone took legal action, then it's just that.

[Ghostface]

I personally think there’s no smoke without fire. And if there’s almost double figures of people complaining....

I saw a tv show a few years back, this young porn actress was took to America by a UK big name producer. He took her around a few studios, in pvc mini skirt and holding her hand. She was taken to see Maxxx Hardcore, he Pretty much molested/shoved his cock inside her in his office after 3 mins. She then went to work on one of his scenes, but it was way too extreme for her, she had no idea who he was...she stopped wasn’t comfortable at all, he ended up just shouting at her.

I think some people in the industry take advance of the new young actresses to say the very least...

[shushu]

I have some problem to understand this. In the podcast Stefani Special is talking against Christian xxx. In the same time there are 3 clips of her on Christians website. How can this be that she makes some movies with him while she calls the girls not to do that?

[BostonBad]

The HA communists are jealous because he is making 300 films per year and making big money. I have no issues with Christian except clearly he is a cum dodger. He needs to swallow his medicine.

[bassman2546]

The HA communists are jealous because he is making 300 films per year and making big money. I have no issues with Christian except clearly he is a cum dodger. He needs to swallow his medicine.

Not sure where you're getting that, but... whatever.

[giovanni_hotel]

I don't know who is true or not.

But it's common sense. if it's a whole load of crap, then christian's business in porn is finished, period. and surely the girls know if they are chatting shit, then THEY are finished.

and wihtout being funny or bad....trans women have enough troubles, without a failed porn career from defamatory comments.....

i'm not defending any side here. the girls made seom pretty serious allegations, and I'm sure christian is smart would weigh up his actions.

I don't know where you live, but in my city 'groping', such as grabbing a woman's breast, is a MISDEMEANOR.
Meaning fines for court costs and if you have no priors, NO jail time.

Why should someone's entire porn business be taken away because of an allegation of groping??smh

Stop 'caping for these chicks. The charges for most of them are highly exaggerated and they diminish those women who are truly victims of sexual assault.

[christianxxx]

I have some problem to understand this. In the podcast Stefani Special is talking against Christian xxx. In the same time there are 3 clips of her on Christians website. How can this be that she makes some movies with him while she calls the girls not to do that?

she moved in with Jamie French that's what happened. lol

[holzz]

why don't they just sue him?

posting on a website, of Web 1.0 design no less (looks like it...) is not enough. it will remain just allegations. and allegations mean shit, since they can be concocted.

i have no dog in this fight, but then it looks bad on them if they don't take firm legal action.

that said, and i know Christian posted just above this, he should be getting info to prove them wrong. either way, both Chrisitan and the girls should do more, since their careers are fucked from many levels. if the girls are lying, then no matter how hot they are, or passable, or how big their dicks/boobs are, who will hire liars? and if Christian is indeed a "predator" then that fucks him up too.

[holzz]

I don't know where you live, but in my city 'groping', such as grabbing a woman's breast, is a MISDEMEANOR.
Meaning fines for court costs and if you have no priors, NO jail time.

Why should someone's entire porn business be taken away because of an allegation of groping??smh

Stop 'caping for these chicks. The charges for most of them are highly exaggerated and they diminish those women who are truly victims of sexual assault.

It's an assault in many places, and in my country is an indictable offence (equivalent of your felony).

just posting on some site is not enough, they need hard proof, and it reflects badly on them.

It could affect their careers, if this is all bull. Any man would be sceptical, since even a well-intentioned gesture could be "abuse". what makes you think i'm defending either party? I don't know the girls nor Christian, and neither has made a good case imho. it's all abou nothing at this point, an i have no reason to be partial.

just both sides are saying shit, and it looks like "they said, he said".

[christianxxx]

It's an assault in many places, and in my country is an indictable offence (equivalent of your felony).

just posting on some site is not enough, they need hard proof, and it reflects badly on them.

It could affect their careers, if this is all bull. Any man would be sceptical, since even a well-intentioned gesture could be "abuse". what makes you think i'm defending either party? I don't know the girls nor Christian, and neither has made a good case imho. it's all abou nothing at this point, an i have no reason to be partial.

just both sides are saying shit, and it looks like "they said, he said".

how exactly could it affect my career at all? i'm serious - what could they possibly do to me?

[Ts RedVeX]

Yeyeyeye. Serious shit maaan. Someone got offended OMFG!! that is SERIOUS BUSINESS

Sooo, when are you popping down to Bristol so we can do some content swap that I am too lazy to use on my webshite and you can fuck my ass silly before the shoot, Christian? xD

[holzz]

how exactly could it affect my career at all? i'm serious - what could they possibly do to me?

just saying you and them have to have your shit together, that's all.

[Lester316]

On reflection and having seen the attitudes of those attacking Christian it all just strikes me as sour grapes; he has made a success of content and either they didn't with content made in trade or they overvalued themselves.


On a side note my previous post in the thread has been removed as 'No tube sites - read the rules' I haven't posted any links and if anything usually let people know if I spot them doing so. The way my post has been deleted/labelled is an unfair reflection as I don't need to be reminded of those rules and might make people think I had broken them.

[rodinuk]

...On a side note my previous post in the thread has been removed as 'No tube sites - read the rules' I haven't posted any links and if anything usually let people know if I spot them doing so. The way my post has been deleted/labelled is an unfair reflection as I don't need to be reminded of those rules and might make people think I had broken them.

You re-quoted the entire original post including the link.

[danoblue]

This thread more interesting reading.

I do recall one performer Christian XXX would not work with and that is Nina Lawless.

Wonder what she did to get on his NO list ;)