2PAC

[HiiiGH]

Tupac ("2Pac") Amaru Shakur was born in the Bronx on June 16, 1971 to parents who were active in the Black Panther movement. Tupac's fiery, independent persona was a likely bi-product of his childhood years; his mother, Afeni, a member of the Black Panther offshoot group New York 21, was arrested for conspiring to blow up New York landmarks, his stepfather was on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted List.
Tupac grew up in both New York and Baltimore, and as a teenager attended the Baltimore School for the Performing Arts. Tupac's family later relocated to Oakland, Calif., where he spent much of his time on the street. In the early '90s he hooked up with the rap group Digital Underground performing as a dancer and later as a guest rapper.

After his Digital Underground debut, This Is an EP Release, Tupac signed to Interscope Records and released his first solo album, 1991's 2Pacalypse Now. The album quickly went gold thanks to the hit singles "Trapped" and "Brenda's Got a Baby," as well as a high-profile, seemingly self-portraying appearance in the hit movie Juice.

Tupac's 1993 follow-up, Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z., reached No. 4 and went platinum, spawning the Top 10 hits "I Get Around" and "Keep Ya Head Up." That same year Tupac co-starred with Janet Jackson in the popular movie Poetic Justice, further increasing his celebrity.

Throughout much of 1993 and 1994 Shakur was in and out of jail on various charges. He was arrested in Los Angeles for carrying a concealed weapon, was implicated in the shooting deaths of two undercover policemen and was convicted of sexual assault. In November 1994, in a much-publicized incident, Shakur was shot four times while entering a New York recording studio and robbed of $40,000 in jewelry. The following month he was sentenced to prison for the sexual assault conviction. In the midst of all this, Tupac was able to put out 1995's Me Against the World, which debuted at No. 1, went platinum and established Shakur as one of the most popular and commercially successful rappers to emerge in the '90s.

Out on parole, Tupac signed to Death Row Records, where he recorded what was to be his last album, 1996's All Eyez on Me, a double-album that sold more than six million copies. Tupac also began devoting more time to his acting career, starring in the films Bullet and Gridlock'd.

And then, on September 7, 1996, at the pinnacle of his career, Tupac was shot by unknown assailants while riding in a car in Las Vegas. He died six days later in a hospital without ever regaining consciousness.

Though his death brought renewed attention to inner city violence, corruption in the rap music industry, and East Coast/West Coast rap feuds, his shooting remains a mystery, its motive the subject of much speculation by fans and industry insiders.

A posthumous double-CD, R U Still Down? (Remember Me?), was released by Shakur's mother on her new Amaru label


some pix


HiiiGH

[BeardedOne]

:shock:

I did not know the history of Tupac.

Thanx for posting this.

[HiiiGH]

you are welcome buddy ;)

i dont know what knid of persons kill guy like him
anyway


HiiiGH

[BeardedOne]

i dont know what knid of persons kill guy like him
anyway

It's a crazy world, guy. I had local cops shooting at me because I couldn't afford to buy them off. Go figure.

:shrug

[Killah]

A posthumous double-CD, R U Still Down? (Remember Me?), was released by Shakur's mother on her new Amaru label


Then the following year, Amaru released a double-CD Greatest Hits album...

Then another posthumous album called "Still I Rise"...

then a posthumous poety CD....

...then another posthumous double-CD called "Until The End of time"....

...then another posthumous double-CD called "Better Dayz"....

...then a posthumous soundtrack to a posthumous documentary "Tupac:Russurection" which is narrated by 2pac himself....

...then another posthumous album called "Loyal 2 The Game"...

...then another posthumous poetry CD....

...then their gonna release another posthumous album later on this year around Novemeber.

Damn, its like my nigga Pac never left. 8)

[BeardedOne]

Damn, its like my nigga Pac never left.

Stop! It's beginning to sound like the legacy of L. Ron Hubbard.

[arc angel]

IF YOU CANT HOLD A SWORD , DONT CRY WHEN ONE DIES BUY A GUN.....................

[tommytuu]

Tupac ("2Pac") Amaru Shakur was born in the Bronx on June 16, 1971 to parents who were active in the Black Panther movement. Tupac's fiery, independent persona was a likely bi-product of his childhood years; his mother, Afeni, a member of the Black Panther offshoot group New York 21, was arrested for conspiring to blow up New York landmarks, his stepfather was on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted List.
Tupac grew up in both New York and Baltimore, and as a teenager attended the Baltimore School for the Performing Arts. Tupac's family later relocated to Oakland, Calif., where he spent much of his time on the street. In the early '90s he hooked up with the rap group Digital Underground performing as a dancer and later as a guest rapper.

After his Digital Underground debut, This Is an EP Release, Tupac signed to Interscope Records and released his first solo album, 1991's 2Pacalypse Now. The album quickly went gold thanks to the hit singles "Trapped" and "Brenda's Got a Baby," as well as a high-profile, seemingly self-portraying appearance in the hit movie Juice.

Tupac's 1993 follow-up, Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z., reached No. 4 and went platinum, spawning the Top 10 hits "I Get Around" and "Keep Ya Head Up." That same year Tupac co-starred with Janet Jackson in the popular movie Poetic Justice, further increasing his celebrity.

Throughout much of 1993 and 1994 Shakur was in and out of jail on various charges. He was arrested in Los Angeles for carrying a concealed weapon, was implicated in the shooting deaths of two undercover policemen and was convicted of sexual assault. In November 1994, in a much-publicized incident, Shakur was shot four times while entering a New York recording studio and robbed of $40,000 in jewelry. The following month he was sentenced to prison for the sexual assault conviction. In the midst of all this, Tupac was able to put out 1995's Me Against the World, which debuted at No. 1, went platinum and established Shakur as one of the most popular and commercially successful rappers to emerge in the '90s.

Out on parole, Tupac signed to Death Row Records, where he recorded what was to be his last album, 1996's All Eyez on Me, a double-album that sold more than six million copies. Tupac also began devoting more time to his acting career, starring in the films Bullet and Gridlock'd.

And then, on September 7, 1996, at the pinnacle of his career, Tupac was shot by unknown assailants while riding in a car in Las Vegas. He died six days later in a hospital without ever regaining consciousness.

Though his death brought renewed attention to inner city violence, corruption in the rap music industry, and East Coast/West Coast rap feuds, his shooting remains a mystery, its motive the subject of much speculation by fans and industry insiders.

A posthumous double-CD, R U Still Down? (Remember Me?), was released by Shakur's mother on her new Amaru label


some pix


HiiiGHOk. Funny thing about this is that I'm from baltimore, I know people who went to the school for the arts, I even met the guy briefly before his demise, and to this day I still never saw or could see the greatness that everyone else seems to in this guy. Never was a fan. Music wasn't bad but it didn't re-invent the wheel as some seem to think. In films he basically played himself so I never saw any range. Just never saw the hype.

[shemalejunky]

Tupac is the most overrated artist ever.

.

[tommytuu]

Tupac is the most overrated artist ever.

.BUMP!!!!!!!

[chefmike]

Elvis loved fried peanut butter and banana sandwiches...and he loved his mama...

[chefmike]

you are welcome buddy ;)

i dont know what knid of persons kill guy like him
anyway


HiiiGH

Live by the gun, die by the gun...gangsta 101 slick...

[jayayche]

HiiiGH[/quote]Ok. Funny thing about this is that I'm from baltimore, I know people who went to the school for the arts, I even met the guy briefly before his demise, and to this day I still never saw or could see the greatness that everyone else seems to in this guy. Never was a fan. Music wasn't bad but it didn't re-invent the wheel as some seem to think. In films he basically played himself so I never saw any range. Just never saw the hype.[/quote]
Im in Bmore too I went to the school for the arts, not with him, but i did meet him, and Jada. just Sharing

[warren g]

2pac hated trannies but that fag dr dre liked them

[Quinn]

Cats are mammals. Mice are mammals. As such, Tom and Jerry is a cartoon about two mammals.

-Quinn

[DJ_Asia]

A posthumous double-CD, R U Still Down? (Remember Me?), was released by Shakur's mother on her new Amaru label


Then the following year, Amaru released a double-CD Greatest Hits album...

Then another posthumous album called "Still I Rise"...

then a posthumous poety CD....

...then another posthumous double-CD called "Until The End of time"....

...then another posthumous double-CD called "Better Dayz"....

...then a posthumous soundtrack to a posthumous documentary "Tupac:Russurection" which is narrated by 2pac himself....

...then another posthumous album called "Loyal 2 The Game"...

...then another posthumous poetry CD....

...then their gonna release another posthumous album later on this year around Novemeber.

Damn, its like my nigga Pac never left. 8)

Same as Jimi Hendrix released many more albums after his death then prior...its called riding the gravy train til it cant ride no more..and flogging that horse til its nothing but dust.

[NYCe]

:wink:

[DJ_Asia]

:wink:

So thats what the dude in my avatar grew up to look like... :o

[bunzy]

Oh shit, he's got all the tattoos Tupac used to have!... :o

[bunzy]

2pac hated trannies but that fag dr dre liked them
LOL, that's so true!

[InHouston]

Tupac is the most overrated artist ever.

.

Thank you! I have friends who think Tupac was a lyrical genius. There's nothing ingenious about placing your index finger on a drum machine (or rather having other musicians compose your beats) and spewing diatribes of illiterate drivel into a microphone. All Tupac managed to contribute was the perpetuation of a monotonous genre called Hip Hop. Galieo, Einstein, Newton, Copernicus, Beethoven, Mozart, Rush, Van Halen, and the like were geniuses. Tupac was just another knucklehead rapper who lacks any accomplished level of musical talent.

“Yeah mutha fucka … yeah yeah … I’ll put two in yo chest nigga … yeah”, whatever!

No matter how ‘hard’ and ‘gangsta’ these moronic rappers make themselves out to be, rap music is for girls. Yes that’s right … it’s for girls. Think about it. Girls love it because they’re simple minded to begin with, and guys go along with it to get laid, and because it empowers them to feel rugged and invincible, all the while dismissing the empowerment and opportunities of a good education. Tupac said it himself “Don’t rap to da niggas … you got to rap to the bitches, and the niggas will buy yo albums.” I don’t know about you, but I personally don’t care to listen to some knucklehead rapping a thumping testament to his chains and rims and money and big nutt-sack. That’s some wimp-shit for girls all wrapped up in the guise of silly and immature gangsta-style bravado.

Wanna hear something ingenious? Listen to Ludwig Van Beethoven’s 9th symphony, and not just once. Over and over again … especially the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th movements. Beethoven was abused as a child by his alcoholic father who would beat him senseless, and force him to stay in the attic and play the piano until his fingers bled. As a result, he didn’t grow up acting like a little asshole like rappers do today, and blaming society for their ill wills. Beethoven did grow up to be a loner and a recluse, but at the same time an absolute musical phenomenon. And in case any of you decide to listen to his 9th symphony, bear in mind that he was stone deaf when he wrote it. He cut the legs off his piano so he could play with one hand while pressing his ear to the floor to feel the vibrations of his music. In a tavern one night, a rival composer challenged Beethoven to improvise a small piece of sheet music he wrote. Beethoven asked for the sheet music, placed it upside down on the piano, and not only played it backwards by site-reading, but improved it and composed an altogether improved version of that guy’s music on the fly. His rival stormed out of the tavern humiliated and never returned. That is a genius!

Tupac was the typical kind of musically ignorant moron I see in the music stores who’s only accomplished technical skills with music are how to start and stop pre-programmed rhythms on drum machines.


:2cent Word!

[tommytuu]

Tupac is the most overrated artist ever.

.

Thank you! I have friends who think Tupac was a lyrical genius. There's nothing ingenious about placing your index finger on a drum machine (or rather having other musicians compose your beats) and spewing diatribes of illiterate drivel into a microphone. All Tupac managed to contribute was the perpetuation of a monotonous genre called Hip Hop. Galieo, Einstein, Newton, Copernicus, Beethoven, Mozart, Rush, Van Halen, and the like were geniuses. Tupac was just another knucklehead rapper who lacks any accomplished level of musical talent.

“Yeah mutha fucka … yeah yeah … I’ll put two in yo chest nigga … yeah”, whatever!

No matter how ‘hard’ and ‘gangsta’ these moronic rappers make themselves out to be, rap music is for girls. , Yes that’s right … it’s for girls. Think about it. Girls love it because they’re to simple minded to begin with and guys go along with it to get laid, and because it empowers them to feel rugged and invincible, all the while dismissing the empowerment and opportunities of a good education. Tupac said it himself “Don’t rap to da niggas … you got to rap to the bitches, and the niggas will buy yo albums.” I don’t know about you, but I personally don’t care to listen to some knucklehead rapping a thumping testament to his chains and rims and money and big nutt-sack. That’s some wimp-shit for girls all wrapped up in the guise of silly and immature gangsta-style bravado.

Wanna hear something ingenious? Listen to Ludwig Van Beethoven’s 9th symphony, and not just once. Over and over again … especially the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th movements. Beethoven was abused as a child by his alcoholic father who would beat him senseless, and force him to stay in the attic and play the piano until his fingers bled. As a result, he didn’t grow up acting like a little asshole like rappers do today, and blaming society for their ill wills. Beethoven did grow up to be a loner and a recluse, but at the same time an absolute musical phenomenon. And in case any of you decide to listen to his 9th symphony, bear in mind that he was stone deaf when he wrote it. He cut the legs off his piano so he could play with one hand while pressing his ear to the floor to feel the vibrations of his music. In a tavern one night, a rival composer challenged Beethoven to improvise a small piece of sheet music he wrote. Beethoven asked for the sheet music, placed it upside down on the piano, and not only played it backwards by site-reading, but improved it and composed an altogether improved version of that guy’s music on the fly. His rival stormed out of the tavern humiliated and never returned. That is a genius!

Tupac was the typical kind of musically ignorant moron I see in the music stores who’s only accomplished technical skills with music are how to start and stop pre-programmed rhythms on drum machines.


:2cent Word!THANK YOU. I knew there was a reason I didn't like rap. Just couldn't put my finger on it. Just like every girl wants or thinks she wants a thug. What they don't know is all true thugs are serving lifetime sentences or are dead. What they have is some punk who is into the hip hop lifestyle ie clothes, music, language. But at heart he's no more of a man than me. Thats why I don't fear anyone in the hood, because one on one, I like my chances. Punk ass bitches.

[yodajazz]

Tupac produced a lot of lyrics for such a short life. Like most young men some of it was centered on the pursuit of vain pleasures. But he has one song that I love called "So Many Tears". To me this song shows the anguish of a whole generation of kids growing up with gangs and violence as their primary life.

"Back in elementary, I thrived on misery
Left me alone, I grew up amongst a dying breed
Inside my mind couldn’t find a place to rest
Until I got that thug life tattered on my chest
Tell me can feel me, Im not living in the past
You want to last, be the first to blast,
Remember Cato, no longer witnessing deceased
Calling the sirens, seen them murdered in the streets
Now I rest in peace
Is there a heaven for a G, remember me
So many homeys in the cemetery
Shed so many tears"

That's just the first verse, but you get the point, hopefully. So many artists were here for a short time but left us with something special which lives on. Mozart comes to mind as an artist who died young. Will Tupac be remembered? At least 10 years after his death he remains a popular, if controversial subject.

[Quinn]

Speaking for myself, I like rap – a lot. I do not, however, like the fake gangsta, illiterate wannabe culture it has come to embody. The fact is that Tupac was the black Vanilla Ice of rap. Seriously, the guy had his start as a backup dancer for Digital Underground. Then, he went from being one step away from Steve Urkel to marketing himself as a gangsta – and people were dumb enough to buy it.

Tommytu is right; real thugs are usually in jail or dead. Furthermore, as someone who has done time, I can tell you that when these wannabe types actually find themselves doing time with real sorts, they are usually the first ones on their knees offering “favors” in exchange for their security, especially if they’re running with a weak crew or no crew at all.

Here’s a novel idea: how about looking up to someone or something that asks you to expect more of yourself and not less.

-Quinn

[Uncut]

And this all means WHAT!!!!!!!! If he was was into HungAngels then talk about him otherwise WHO CARES!

[ezed]

And this all means WHAT!!!!!!!! If he was was into HungAngels then talk about him otherwise WHO CARES!

Who cares?... This thread will be remembered as the first thread to reveal the lyrics from the first hit single "I Dumped a Load in the Eye" of the forth coming Irish rapper "Ezed"

I was only five,
I was large for my size,
I noticed this when it poked me in the eye!

But then I got big,
And was the length of a cig
Butttttttt....it was smokin'................

I met a GG
She was wear'in a wig
So I dumped a load in her eye

(Chorus)
He dumped a load in her eye!
He dumped a load in her eye!
He dumped a Mudda F*k'in Load in her eye!

With cock in hand,
I wandered the Land,
Looking for luv where it wasn't

I stumbled upon "Hung Angels"
Tops, Bottoms, gays or not
No one realy gives a snot!

(Chorus)
He dumped a load in her eye!
He dumped a load in her eye!
He dumped a Mudda F*k'in Load in her eye!

And then I thought.....Am I gay or not?
And B1 gave me a three dollar bill and I went to the 7/11 and bought a slurpee and a bag of Doritos.

[DJ_Asia]

Tupac is the most overrated artist ever.

.

Thank you! I have friends who think Tupac was a lyrical genius. There's nothing ingenious about placing your index finger on a drum machine (or rather having other musicians compose your beats) and spewing diatribes of illiterate drivel into a microphone. All Tupac managed to contribute was the perpetuation of a monotonous genre called Hip Hop. Galieo, Einstein, Newton, Copernicus, Beethoven, Mozart, Rush, Van Halen, and the like were geniuses. Tupac was just another knucklehead rapper who lacks any accomplished level of musical talent.

“Yeah mutha fucka … yeah yeah … I’ll put two in yo chest nigga … yeah”, whatever!

No matter how ‘hard’ and ‘gangsta’ these moronic rappers make themselves out to be, rap music is for girls. Yes that’s right … it’s for girls. Think about it. Girls love it because they’re simple minded to begin with, and guys go along with it to get laid, and because it empowers them to feel rugged and invincible, all the while dismissing the empowerment and opportunities of a good education. Tupac said it himself “Don’t rap to da niggas … you got to rap to the bitches, and the niggas will buy yo albums.” I don’t know about you, but I personally don’t care to listen to some knucklehead rapping a thumping testament to his chains and rims and money and big nutt-sack. That’s some wimp-shit for girls all wrapped up in the guise of silly and immature gangsta-style bravado.

Wanna hear something ingenious? Listen to Ludwig Van Beethoven’s 9th symphony, and not just once. Over and over again … especially the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th movements. Beethoven was abused as a child by his alcoholic father who would beat him senseless, and force him to stay in the attic and play the piano until his fingers bled. As a result, he didn’t grow up acting like a little asshole like rappers do today, and blaming society for their ill wills. Beethoven did grow up to be a loner and a recluse, but at the same time an absolute musical phenomenon. And in case any of you decide to listen to his 9th symphony, bear in mind that he was stone deaf when he wrote it. He cut the legs off his piano so he could play with one hand while pressing his ear to the floor to feel the vibrations of his music. In a tavern one night, a rival composer challenged Beethoven to improvise a small piece of sheet music he wrote. Beethoven asked for the sheet music, placed it upside down on the piano, and not only played it backwards by site-reading, but improved it and composed an altogether improved version of that guy’s music on the fly. His rival stormed out of the tavern humiliated and never returned. That is a genius!

Tupac was the typical kind of musically ignorant moron I see in the music stores who’s only accomplished technical skills with music are how to start and stop pre-programmed rhythms on drum machines.


:2cent Word!

BRAVO!

[templek]

Firstly isnt this the wrong platform on this board to be discussing tupac? Whats it got to do with general tgirl discussions?

Heres my tuppence worth. I was not a fan of tupac when he was alive. Not because he was a fake or wannabee gangsta. It was because he was making positive records for those in the ghetto where he was from, but he did the opposite in real life. He was always in brushes with the law, shootings wiht an off duty cop and assaulst in night clubs. Even Mike Tyson when he was in jail, sent a message out to him to 'cool down' because he would not want to end up where he is.

What summed up 2pac was the incident on MTV raps when he was interviewed, after he was sacked from the lead role in Menace to Society. He then boasted live on the show how he beat up the managera nd directors cos they were pussys etc. They had to pull the plug before he could be sued. The way the story went tupac turned up with his crew of 20 guys and laid into the Hughes bros and a couple of others. Who was the real pussies?

I am not a fan of 50 but at least he is honest, saying if he was not making records he would be selling crack, in order to get rich or die trying.


As for rap being music for girls or not music at all, is a matter of opinion. Its a bit elitist to look at classical music or beethoven as being of high class or superior. 'Classical music' is really Euopean concert hall music enjoyed by the aristocracy of the pre industrial class dominated society, where the lower orders 'knew their place'. Rap is modern and a product of the post- post industrial age. If you can get around the sociological concept, yes I studied that at uni

Jazz music is just as complex and creative, artistic as classical music. It deserves it props and arguably has been more inflluential in popular music in the 20th century than classical music. For instance blues, gospel, rocknroll, C&W, R&B soul, funk, house, tekcno hip hop etc all were influenced by jazz

[InHouston]

Tupac produced a lot of lyrics for such a short life. Like most young men some of it was centered on the pursuit of vain pleasures. But he has one song that I love called "So Many Tears". To me this song shows the anguish of a whole generation of kids growing up with gangs and violence as their primary life.

"Back in elementary, I thrived on misery
Left me alone, I grew up amongst a dying breed
Inside my mind couldn’t find a place to rest
Until I got that thug life tattered on my chest
Tell me can feel me, Im not living in the past
You want to last, be the first to blast,
Remember Cato, no longer witnessing deceased
Calling the sirens, seen them murdered in the streets
Now I rest in peace
Is there a heaven for a G, remember me
So many homeys in the cemetery
Shed so many tears"

That's just the first verse, but you get the point, hopefully. So many artists were here for a short time but left us with something special which lives on. Mozart comes to mind as an artist who died young. Will Tupac be remembered? At least 10 years after his death he remains a popular, if controversial subject.


"Is there a heaven for a G, remember me"

Puke! What's so special about that? Those words are toxic pop-culture. All this verse does is justify and validate the violent 'gangster' mentality for youth. As an example of this kind of influence, I was in traffic court one morning and a young black guy was standing before the judge with a Tupac t-shirt that read "Only God can judge me." He smarted off to the judge a couple of times with the typical rude gangsta attitude so prevalent in today's young kids. For that, the judge graciously had him escorted off to jail for contempt of court. Ole Tupac's t-shirt was wrong.

[InHouston]

Jazz music is just as complex and creative, artistic as classical music. It deserves it props and arguably has been more inflluential in popular music in the 20th century than classical music. For instance blues, gospel, rocknroll, C&W, R&B soul, funk, house, tekcno hip hop etc all were influenced by jazz

You’ve obviously studied at the university, and are obviously not a musician. Musicians draw their musical influences from any and all genres, places, things, sounds, visages, feelings, etc. And jazz has not been the largest influence on 20th century music, it was blues music.

[starshine_tara]

I liked 'Changes'.

Tara xxx

[werwt22]

Wow.....some serious blasting going on here. All those songs come from different aspects of his life or certain situations. And yeah you guys are right about a lot of the crap he used to speak on, but he had so many songs that actually meant something like "Brenda's Got a Baby", or "Dear Mama" or "Keep Your Head Up" and the list goes on, but no ones given a chance to b/c they let his mainstream songs feed into the other songs he creates. Don't forget that when a lot of these artists put out albums thats it not their choice of what always goes on it. They make like 30-40 songs for a CD and put the songs in front of critics to figure out what the public will like best and what singles will be released. Theres was the hardcore gangstah side of him and there was a suttle poetic side. You guys just play into what you saw on TV and judged a book by it's cover.

[tommytuu]

Firstly isnt this the wrong platform on this board to be discussing tupac? Whats it got to do with general tgirl discussions?

Heres my tuppence worth. I was not a fan of tupac when he was alive. Not because he was a fake or wannabee gangsta. It was because he was making positive records for those in the ghetto where he was from, but he did the opposite in real life. He was always in brushes with the law, shootings wiht an off duty cop and assaulst in night clubs. Even Mike Tyson when he was in jail, sent a message out to him to 'cool down' because he would not want to end up where he is.

What summed up 2pac was the incident on MTV raps when he was interviewed, after he was sacked from the lead role in Menace to Society. He then boasted live on the show how he beat up the managera nd directors cos they were pussys etc. They had to pull the plug before he could be sued. The way the story went tupac turned up with his crew of 20 guys and laid into the Hughes bros and a couple of others. Who was the real pussies?

I am not a fan of 50 but at least he is honest, saying if he was not making records he would be selling crack, in order to get rich or die trying.


As for rap being music for girls or not music at all, is a matter of opinion. Its a bit elitist to look at classical music or beethoven as being of high class or superior. 'Classical music' is really Euopean concert hall music enjoyed by the aristocracy of the pre industrial class dominated society, where the lower orders 'knew their place'. Rap is modern and a product of the post- post industrial age. If you can get around the sociological concept, yes I studied that at uni

Jazz music is just as complex and creative, artistic as classical music. It deserves it props and arguably has been more inflluential in popular music in the 20th century than classical music. For instance blues, gospel, rocknroll, C&W, R&B soul, funk, house, tekcno hip hop etc all were influenced by jazzMost great rock and roll musicians will always give props to jazz and jazz musicians. They can tell you about jazz musicians who influenced their style of music, and a lot of these musicians I've never heard of. You ask a rock and roller about his influences, most times the first name you hear them mention is Miles Davis. Try asking a rapper how someone like Miles Davis had an effect on today's music. I doubt you'll get an intelligible response or anything that makes sense. But people want to single them out and call them a musical genius. Fucking morons. All a rapper will talk about is himself. Damm the history from which their music was derived. This isn't a blanket statement for all rappers, but damm near all of them.

[InHouston]

Most great rock and roll musicians will always give props to jazz and jazz musicians. They can tell you about jazz musicians who influenced their style of music, and a lot of these musicians I've never heard of. You ask a rock and roller about his influences, most times the first name you hear them mention is Miles Davis. Try asking a rapper how someone like Miles Davis had an effect on today's music. I doubt you'll get an intelligible response or anything that makes sense. But people want to single them out and call them a musical genius. Fucking morons. All a rapper will talk about is himself. Damm the history from which their music was derived. This isn't a blanket statement for all rappers, but damm near all of them.

Amen. Rap is a genre for the musically inept.

[chefmike]

Jazz music is just as complex and creative, artistic as classical music. It deserves it props and arguably has been more inflluential in popular music in the 20th century than classical music. For instance blues, gospel, rocknroll, C&W, R&B soul, funk, house, tekcno hip hop etc all were influenced by jazz

You’ve obviously studied at the university, and are obviously not a musician. Musicians draw their musical influences from any and all genres, places, things, sounds, visages, feelings, etc. And jazz has not been the largest influence on 20th century music, it was blues music.

I thought so...weren't blues pioneers like Lightin' Hopkins around before the evolution of Jazz, R&R, and R&B?

[InHouston]

Jazz music is just as complex and creative, artistic as classical music. It deserves it props and arguably has been more inflluential in popular music in the 20th century than classical music. For instance blues, gospel, rocknroll, C&W, R&B soul, funk, house, tekcno hip hop etc all were influenced by jazz

You’ve obviously studied at the university, and are obviously not a musician. Musicians draw their musical influences from any and all genres, places, things, sounds, visages, feelings, etc. And jazz has not been the largest influence on 20th century music, it was blues music.

I thought so...weren't blues pioneers like Lightin' Hopkins around before the evolution of Jazz, R&R, and R&B?

Not sure. However, there's almost no jazz influence in today's popular music, with a few exceptions here and there. Blues music has it's foundation in most mainstream music of today. Elvis used to wander across the railroad tracks to the black community to watch them play and dance to blues music, and was inspired by it. Ted Nugent was on a documentary a couple of weeks ago, and to get a break from the show he said "I need to return to my roots", and sat in for a jam session at a blues bar. A lot of the Doors music is blues. CCR ... blues. A few of Def Leopard's song are straight from blues riffs. R&B and country, as divergent as those two genres are, are firmly rooted in blues.

I really have never heard any kind of a blues influence in hip hop. Hip hop is largely structured around 4/4 drum beats backed up by a bass riff. While they ornament the beat with cute and clever chord and pad riffs, overall hip hop lacks true musical expression. Just push the button and start rappin. In fact, hip hop music is so easy to make, there is a flood of hip hop artists that come out of the woodwork from everywhere. And as a result, they are people who are untalented and quite unprofessional.

[chefmike]

Jazz music is just as complex and creative, artistic as classical music. It deserves it props and arguably has been more inflluential in popular music in the 20th century than classical music. For instance blues, gospel, rocknroll, C&W, R&B soul, funk, house, tekcno hip hop etc all were influenced by jazz

You’ve obviously studied at the university, and are obviously not a musician. Musicians draw their musical influences from any and all genres, places, things, sounds, visages, feelings, etc. And jazz has not been the largest influence on 20th century music, it was blues music.

I thought so...weren't blues pioneers like Lightin' Hopkins around before the evolution of Jazz, R&R, and R&B?

Not sure. However, there's almost no jazz influence in today's popular music, with a few exceptions here and there. Blues music has it's foundation in most mainstream music of today. Elvis used to wander across the railroad tracks to the black community to watch them play and dance to blues music, and was inspired by it. Ted Nugent was on a documentary a couple of weeks ago, and to get a break from the show he said "I need to return to my roots", and sat in for a jam session at a blues bar. A lot of the Doors music is blues. CCR ... blues. A few of Def Leopard's song are straight from blues riffs. R&B and country, as divergent as those two genres are, are firmly rooted in blues.

I really have never heard any kind of a blues influence in hip hop. Hip hop is largely structured around 4/4 drum beats backed up by a bass riff. While they ornament the beat with cute and clever chord and pad riffs, overall hip hop lacks true musical expression. Just push the button and start rappin. In fact, hip hop music is so easy to make, there is a flood of hip hop artists that come out of the woodwork from everywhere. And as a result, they are people who are untalented and quite unprofessional.

The Stones and Zeppelin's blues influences are also obvious(especially early in their careers), and both bands have done blues covers on recordings and in concert.

[InHouston]

Jazz music is just as complex and creative, artistic as classical music. It deserves it props and arguably has been more inflluential in popular music in the 20th century than classical music. For instance blues, gospel, rocknroll, C&W, R&B soul, funk, house, tekcno hip hop etc all were influenced by jazz

You’ve obviously studied at the university, and are obviously not a musician. Musicians draw their musical influences from any and all genres, places, things, sounds, visages, feelings, etc. And jazz has not been the largest influence on 20th century music, it was blues music.

I thought so...weren't blues pioneers like Lightin' Hopkins around before the evolution of Jazz, R&R, and R&B?

Not sure. However, there's almost no jazz influence in today's popular music, with a few exceptions here and there. Blues music has it's foundation in most mainstream music of today. Elvis used to wander across the railroad tracks to the black community to watch them play and dance to blues music, and was inspired by it. Ted Nugent was on a documentary a couple of weeks ago, and to get a break from the show he said "I need to return to my roots", and sat in for a jam session at a blues bar. A lot of the Doors music is blues. CCR ... blues. A few of Def Leopard's song are straight from blues riffs. R&B and country, as divergent as those two genres are, are firmly rooted in blues.

I really have never heard any kind of a blues influence in hip hop. Hip hop is largely structured around 4/4 drum beats backed up by a bass riff. While they ornament the beat with cute and clever chord and pad riffs, overall hip hop lacks true musical expression. Just push the button and start rappin. In fact, hip hop music is so easy to make, there is a flood of hip hop artists that come out of the woodwork from everywhere. And as a result, they are people who are untalented and quite unprofessional.

The Stones and Zeppelin's blues influences are also obvious(especially early in their careers), and both bands have done blues covers on recordings and in concert.

Excellent examples, as I grew up listening to Led Zeppelin and the Stones. They are the epitome of Rock & Roll Rhythm & Blues.

[werwt22]

It's so funny to me how you guys are trying to belittle this genre of hiphop, and quite frankly i think it's bullshit. How many of the statements are you guys making that apply to all types of music. Or is it b/c hiphop has a black face? Hmmmm....

[InHouston]

It's so funny to me how you guys are trying to belittle this genre of hiphop, and quite frankly i think it's bullshit. How many of the statements are you guys making that apply to all types of music. Or is it b/c hiphop has a black face? Hmmmm....

I'm not against hip hop because of a black face, brown face, yellow face, or white face. I don't like hip hop because it sucks. You're the one who decided to pull out the race card, which ironically is what a lot of hip hop artists do as well.

[templek]

Got t respond to the 2 extracts:

I really have never heard any kind of a blues influence in hip hop. Hip hop is largely structured around 4/4 drum beats backed up by a bass riff. While they ornament the beat with cute and clever chord and pad riffs, overall hip hop lacks true musical expression. Just push the button and start rappin. In fact, hip hop music is so easy to make, there is a flood of hip hop artists that come out of the woodwork from everywhere. And as a result, they are people who are untalented and quite unprofessional.


tommytuu wrote:

Most great rock and roll musicians will always give props to jazz and jazz musicians. They can tell you about jazz musicians who influenced their style of music, and a lot of these musicians I've never heard of. You ask a rock and roller about his influences, most times the first name you hear them mention is Miles Davis. Try asking a rapper how someone like Miles Davis had an effect on today's music. I doubt you'll get an intelligible response or anything that makes sense. But people want to single them out and call them a musical genius. Fucking morons. All a rapper will talk about is himself. Damm the history from which their music was derived. This isn't a blanket statement for all rappers, but damm near all of them.


Amen. Rap is a genre for the musically inept.


Hip hop is influenced by all types inc jazz. Anyone heard of Gangstarr's 'Its a Jazz thing'? They were the first to dabble with JAzz and taking rap to a new direction, when gangsta rap came to the fore in early 90s/late80s. They paid homage to the Jazz greats.

While we are there rap heavily influnced and allowed the newer generation to hear of the jazz greats and beats, along with of course 70s funk and soul and James Brown. Rap sampled them as we all know. In the current 'post modern' age (or post post-industrial) instruments are not musical instruments anymore but samplers, computers, beatboxes, cubase software, decks etc. If you think it is easy to make for the musically inept, go and use the said equipment and see if you can make a hot tune. It takes skill and training. Otherwise anyone can churn out a hit by clicking a mouse.

The new equipment actually 'democratises' music making, allowing teenagers or anyone with the cheap to acquire equipment to make their own tunes, and sell them. The majors no longer have a strangle hold. That must be better all round

As for 'rappers only talking about himself'. Who said that does not really know much about rap. Rap began as first as party music on the blocks, then became political. Those two strands were there long before gangsta rap. Remember The Message by Grandmaster Flash, or White Lines? KRS1 began 'edutainment' rap with a message, then Public Enemy who spoke about the reality of life for blacks ignored by the mainstream out of fear or prejudice or what ever.

To learn more about this topic, I know I could go on read:

Death of Rythym and blues, by Nelson George

Crosstown Traffic: jimi hendricks and post war music, by Charles Shaar Murray

White boy singin the blues, Michael Bane

Black Noise by T Rose

The Hip Hop Generation: Young Blacks and the Crisis in African American Culture by Bakari Kitwana

Droppin' Science: Critical Essays on Rap Music and Hip Hop Culture (Critical Perspectives on the Past) by William Eric Perkins

Prophets Of The Hood: Politics And Poetics In Hip Hop by Imani Perry

Check It While I Wreck It: Black Womanhood, Hip-Hop Culture, and the Public Sphere by Gwendolyn D. Pough

Can't Stop Won't Stop : A History of the Hip Hop Generation by Jeff Chang

[Quinn]

It's so funny to me how you guys are trying to belittle this genre of hiphop, and quite frankly i think it's bullshit. How many of the statements are you guys making that apply to all types of music. Or is it b/c hiphop has a black face? Hmmmm....

No offence, but the point you are attempting to make is just plain ridiculous. These posters are paying their respects to Jazz and Blues, but they are belittling Rap because it has a black face??? What about the black face traditionally associated with Blues and Jazz? Obviously, the race card just isn’t appropriate in this instance.

-Quinn

[tommytuu]

Got t respond to the 2 extracts:

I really have never heard any kind of a blues influence in hip hop. Hip hop is largely structured around 4/4 drum beats backed up by a bass riff. While they ornament the beat with cute and clever chord and pad riffs, overall hip hop lacks true musical expression. Just push the button and start rappin. In fact, hip hop music is so easy to make, there is a flood of hip hop artists that come out of the woodwork from everywhere. And as a result, they are people who are untalented and quite unprofessional.


tommytuu wrote:

Most great rock and roll musicians will always give props to jazz and jazz musicians. They can tell you about jazz musicians who influenced their style of music, and a lot of these musicians I've never heard of. You ask a rock and roller about his influences, most times the first name you hear them mention is Miles Davis. Try asking a rapper how someone like Miles Davis had an effect on today's music. I doubt you'll get an intelligible response or anything that makes sense. But people want to single them out and call them a musical genius. Fucking morons. All a rapper will talk about is himself. Damm the history from which their music was derived. This isn't a blanket statement for all rappers, but damm near all of them.


Amen. Rap is a genre for the musically inept.


Hip hop is influenced by all types inc jazz. Anyone heard of Gangstarr's 'Its a Jazz thing'? They were the first to dabble with JAzz and taking rap to a new direction, when gangsta rap came to the fore in early 90s/late80s. They paid homage to the Jazz greats.

While we are there rap heavily influnced and allowed the newer generation to hear of the jazz greats and beats, along with of course 70s funk and soul and James Brown. Rap sampled them as we all know. In the current 'post modern' age (or post post-industrial) instruments are not musical instruments anymore but samplers, computers, beatboxes, cubase software, decks etc. If you think it is easy to make for the musically inept, go and use the said equipment and see if you can make a hot tune. It takes skill and training. Otherwise anyone can churn out a hit by clicking a mouse.

The new equipment actually 'democratises' music making, allowing teenagers or anyone with the cheap to acquire equipment to make their own tunes, and sell them. The majors no longer have a strangle hold. That must be better all round

As for 'rappers only talking about himself'. Who said that does not really know much about rap. Rap began as first as party music on the blocks, then became political. Those two strands were there long before gangsta rap. Remember The Message by Grandmaster Flash, or White Lines? KRS1 began 'edutainment' rap with a message, then Public Enemy who spoke about the reality of life for blacks ignored by the mainstream out of fear or prejudice or what ever.

To learn more about this topic, I know I could go on read:

Death of Rythym and blues, by Nelson George

Crosstown Traffic: jimi hendricks and post war music, by Charles Shaar Murray

White boy singin the blues, Michael Bane

Black Noise by T Rose

The Hip Hop Generation: Young Blacks and the Crisis in African American Culture by Bakari Kitwana

Droppin' Science: Critical Essays on Rap Music and Hip Hop Culture (Critical Perspectives on the Past) by William Eric Perkins

Prophets Of The Hood: Politics And Poetics In Hip Hop by Imani Perry

Check It While I Wreck It: Black Womanhood, Hip-Hop Culture, and the Public Sphere by Gwendolyn D. Pough

Can't Stop Won't Stop : A History of the Hip Hop Generation by Jeff ChangYou missed something in my post. I said we all know hip hop was heavily influenced by jazz but a lot of today's so-called hip hop artist don't know where the very music they produce and sample(sampling in not creating) originates from. Also, today's so called hip hop artist rarely talk about said influences. Has bow-wow ever talked about a jazz great like miles davis? Does he know who miles davis is. See, after Public enemy stopped making music, I lost all respect for rap/hip hop. Artist, see I have problems calling them artists because I'm an artist. When 50 cent can interpret, understand and perform classical literature at my level, a professional level, live on a stage, I might take him seriously. Please, these guys can't even give an adequate performance on film. But their artists. GTFOH.

[InHouston]

In the current 'post modern' age (or post post-industrial) instruments are not musical instruments anymore but samplers, computers, beatboxes, cubase software, decks etc. If you think it is easy to make for the musically inept, go and use the said equipment and see if you can make a hot tune. It takes skill and training. Otherwise anyone can churn out a hit by clicking a mouse.

The new equipment actually 'democratises' music making, allowing teenagers or anyone with the cheap to acquire equipment to make their own tunes, and sell them. The majors no longer have a strangle hold. That must be better all round



You confirmed exactly what I said. Rap is not music, and the modern instruments of today are very easy to use, and you probably don't have a clue on how to leverage their full musical potential. I have them, along with Sonar Producer Edition on my computer. They are still musical instruments with samplers and sequencers built in. Rap artists only pirate the samples and sequencers in the instruments, which are pre-programmed samples of music ready to be cut and pasted into an ensemble of beats and riffs (composed by real musicians). This approach requires no musical experience, and some basic training on a computer to sequence the clips together.

Yes, the modern instruments of today have democratized music. However, in doing so they faciliate the arrangement of music so easily that every untalented knucklehead who wants to create a CD with his horseshit noise can do so.

Wanna see a real talented musican on a modern instrument? Go to this link. This is the difference between an acomplished musician who leverages the computing power of modern instruments, as opposed to the primitive and basic one-finger tunes you hear in hip hop performed with the same instruments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06L4eriFpbQ

[InHouston]

Another good musician on a modern instrument.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcaoNcr-lTg&mode=related&search=

[InHouston]

A jazz example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gelx07Egt7M

[InHouston]

And now examples of typical knuckleheads with no musical talent on a modern instruments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb_lUSpdxrc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0KNwQnGzXk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ADvqke0I0s&mode=related&search=

[InHouston]

Some pretty cool jams in this one too. Check out the swing tune at the end of the video.

http://www.musiciansroom.net/Videos/Links_LinkRedirector.aspx?id=109

There is no substitute for raw talent, not even with modern technology.

[InHouston]

Here is a demonstration clinic of how the technology in a modern instrument is properly used by an experienced musician. Rappers just punch around with one finger letting the instrument play basic melodies for them, while more advanced musicians can play entire musical scores on the fly.

http://www.musiciansroom.net/Videos/Links_LinkRedirector.aspx?id=107

[werwt22]

LMAO....I said is it. I didnt say you all were saying that b/c of racism. There was a lot of reading in between the lines in a lot of those posts and it could have come across as racism. I wasnt applying that statement to everyone, just saying there were a few underlying comments that I picked up on is all.

[templek]

You confirmed exactly what I said. Rap is not music, and the modern instruments of today are very easy to use, and you probably don't have a clue on how to leverage their full musical potential. .....

Yes, the modern instruments of today have democratized music. However, in doing so they faciliate the arrangement of music so easily that every untalented knucklehead who wants to create a CD with his horseshit noise can do so.

When 50 cent can interpret, understand and perform classical literature at my level, a professional level, live on a stage, I might take him seriously. Please, these guys can't even give an adequate performance on film. But their artists. GTFOH.


Are we getting into a pissing contest as to who is a better musician? Or only someone who can play at your high level is a proper musician?

As a skilled musicians would see beatboxes, samplers computers etc as not 'real music' so would see hip hop as fake music for knuckleheads as you put it. However all music comes out of a certain culture/subculture with its own core audience. If you are not part of it, you wont understand it and see it as crap.

Also the point I made about democratising the music was missed or not addressed. Yes anyone can make a tune in their bedroom. But not all those bedroom producers make hits. You still need creative and artistic talent to cut it and get a name for yourself. The audience in clubs or who buy the records are not morons. Yet you dismiss it all as knucklehead music.

Well stick to playing live instruments and let those in rap, house, tekno, drum and bass use the computers. Its still music to the faithful. It sounds like snobbery or people from different religions criticise each other

[tommytuu]

You confirmed exactly what I said. Rap is not music, and the modern instruments of today are very easy to use, and you probably don't have a clue on how to leverage their full musical potential. .....

Yes, the modern instruments of today have democratized music. However, in doing so they faciliate the arrangement of music so easily that every untalented knucklehead who wants to create a CD with his horseshit noise can do so.

When 50 cent can interpret, understand and perform classical literature at my level, a professional level, live on a stage, I might take him seriously. Please, these guys can't even give an adequate performance on film. But their artists. GTFOH.


Are we getting into a pissing contest as to who is a better musician? Or only someone who can play at your high level is a proper musician?

As a skilled musicians would see beatboxes, samplers computers etc as not 'real music' so would see hip hop as fake music for knuckleheads as you put it. However all music comes out of a certain culture/subculture with its own core audience. If you are not part of it, you wont understand it and see it as crap.

Also the point I made about democratising the music was missed or not addressed. Yes anyone can make a tune in their bedroom. But not all those bedroom producers make hits. You still need creative and artistic talent to cut it and get a name for yourself. The audience in clubs or who buy the records are not morons. Yet you dismiss it all as knucklehead music.

Well stick to playing live instruments and let those in rap, house, tekno, drum and bass use the computers. Its still music to the faithful. It sounds like snobbery or people from different religions criticise each otherAre you sure? Question? Why was the movie "Jackass" number one at the box office. This is the same audience that goes to clubs. This is the shit they spend their money on. And my comment about 50 cent had nothing to do with music. Classical literature. Aristophanes, Euripides. Chaucer, Shaw, Ibsen, Brecht, Shakespeare and so on. Its the stuff that separates real artists from wannabee artists that just happen to have a lot of money.

[templek]

The record buyers and clubbers wont buy anyting thats in the shops. If its crap its crap. The same goes for 'proper' musicians. In any musical genre you will find the authentic, commerical or wannebees. Iam not a fan of 50 or Tupac, but know they are a part of the hip hop spectrum. They are NOT what hip hop is all about, depsite them making the most money and getting a lot of press attention. Controversy and negativity works wonders in entertainment. There are other more positive artists in rap.

Jackass movie, relativity Tv, soaps, tabloids, pulp fiction books etc are all popular just like fast food outlets. Despite everyone knowing they are crap. You do realise that the consumers and fans of them are from all backgrounds not just 'dumb teenaged clubbers' or rap fans. So why stigmatise them?

Btw Don King read all the classics and quotes shakespeare and others frequently in press conferences. Likewise Jimmy Swaggart knows the bible inside out, and also Bin laden knows the koran very well. Does not make them angels of virtue does it?

[tommytuu]

The record buyers and clubbers wont buy anyting thats in the shops. If its crap its crap. The same goes for 'proper' musicians. In any musical genre you will find the authentic, commerical or wannebees. Iam not a fan of 50 or Tupac, but know they are a part of the hip hop spectrum. They are NOT what hip hop is all about, depsite them making the most money and getting a lot of press attention. Controversy and negativity works wonders in entertainment. There are other more positive artists in rap.

Jackass movie, relativity Tv, soaps, tabloids, pulp fiction books etc are all popular just like fast food outlets. Despite everyone knowing they are crap. You do realise that the consumers and fans of them are from all backgrounds not just 'dumb teenaged clubbers' or rap fans. So why stigmatise them?

Btw Don King read all the classics and quotes shakespeare and others frequently in press conferences. Likewise Jimmy Swaggart knows the bible inside out, and also Bin laden knows the koran very well. Does not make them angels of virtue does it?Shakespeare was only one of seven classical authors I mentioned and King frequently uses those quotes out of context. Meaning, he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. Its not about being an angel of virture. Its about performing at a professional level. Taking the text and breaking it down. Performing as you would for an audience here or in London. Has nothing to do with fucking quoting. Anyone can quote. But can they perform it. I can get a hold of demographic breakdowns of those that have seen Jackass and I'm willing to bet that the fucking moronic clubbing hip hopping clowns your trying to protect make up the majority.

[templek]

If Im not mistaken Jackass is popular among mainly teenagers and others as well who like that reality tv crap thats doing the rounds at the moment. Im sure they are those into grunge, rock, metal, also bikers, skateboarders, motocross, bmx and other extreme sports fans like jackass. They are not just rap fans. I know people who liked it who dont like rap

Regarding Shakespeare I studied it at school,college and uni during English and media studies etc. I did not do drama so had no need to perform it. Just to critically appraise and see the context, traditions, culture of the time. you could interpret it any how you want to, in fact many politicians, critics, etc frequently use their own spin on the bard for their own ends ignoring the context. Don King is not alone if he misquotes shakespeare