A Great Bush photo

[d]

a mosaic created from the photos of the soliders who have died so far in Iraq.

[seaman]

Today's evidence that democrats have too much time on their hands.

(and that's some trash talkin from a rookie poster)

[canihavu]

Today's evidence that democrats have too much time on their hands.

(and that's some trash talkin from a rookie poster)

I guess you're right since the Republicans stole the election four years ago, the Democrats have had nothing much else to do.

[Realgirls4me]

Nice pic there, D. Imagine how fine and clear it would appear if it also included the thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians killed due to dipshit's war ?



Today's evidence that democrats have too much time on their hands.

(and that's some trash talkin from a rookie poster)

I just love how Conservatives and Republicans (You really need to capitalize "democrats", Ace, if you're referring to members of this country's Democratic party) talk about the hatred many have for Dubya, but conveniently forget how what they did to the Clinton Administration dwarfs anything Bush has received, or is receiving so far. It seems to me that if they want to dish it out, they should also be able to take it.

...I'll never forget the time I saw footage of Bill Clinton leaving a Sunday service with Chelsea, and being harrassed by some middle aged bald fat moron calling him names. Imagine the feeding frenzy that would set off at Fox News if someone would do that to the moron-in-charge today ?
I wish I had been nearby when this fucken clown started heckling Clinton next to his daughter. I would have mustered everything my angered 6'2" frame could have mustered and beaten his face into a bloody pulp. I would not have let up.

And, no, I was not a Bill Clinton fan at all, but Clinton took shit that was clearly unwarranted at times. I often wonder what Republicans and Conservatives would have treated him like if he had indeed been a Liberal. Clinton was the most right-wing Democrat to ever occupy the White House, and they still gave him shit everyday of his administration.

[GroobySteven]

If anyone wants to read some great media, "The Independant" in the UK last Sunday had an article on the innocent people killed AFTER the conflict in Basra by British soldiers, where the British commanders had admitted their fault and paid compensation. It was moving (a teacher, a policeman, a hotel desk clerk, etc).
I just wish the rest of the world's media could be so forthcoming - and no, "The Independant" is not a left-wing media outlet, luckily in the UK we have more than two individuals controlling all the media.

Particularly interesting this week was Kuwait's choice to ban "Farenheight 9/11" - so British and American soldiers died in the liberation of Kuwait for what? Certainly not for democracy which we use an excuse to take on other countries? Or not, so it seems.

I loved Bush, followed by Kerry having a go at Fidel Castro for promoting sex tourism and allowing prostitutes including possible underage to work freely within Cuba to bring in money...being one of the few members of this board who has travelled outside my own country, I was dissapointed there was not more prostitution when I was in Cuba, it was actually a bitch to find a girl never mind a TS. However, the US friendly countries of Mexico, Thailand and Brazil (oops what about the Netherlands?) nevermind, NYC, LA, London, etc I had no problem finding working girls and TS's who were not persecuted by the law.

There is no democracy in the US when you vote for a guy, purely to get another guy out. When you can vote for a party or an individual you truly believe wants to do good - then you have democracy. You're voting for the better of two nightmares...at least get Kerry and it cannot be as bad as we've had it.

BTW - thanks for all the 9/11 tickets - promotion continues.
seanchai

[seaman]

OK, the rookie responds.

Canihavu - The repbublicans didn't steal the election in 2000, Ralph Nader did. If W is such a moron (which, btw, I suspect he might be), its embarassing that the Dems let the thing get that close.

Realgirls4me - I'm aware of the capitalization rules. I guess I figured I could fly below the MEGABODY radar LOL. Oh, BTW Ace, lets be adults and admit that every president takes crap for things they don't deserve and every party dishes it out equally. W liked coke as much as Clinton loved blowjobs and Billy Carter loved drinkin' beer. The sad part is that due to party politics and the always biased press, we'll never really know the truth about Whitewater, Halliburton, or Chappaquiddick (sp?).

Seanchai - Lets be clear...none of this kuwait, iraq, saudi thing is really about democracy. I don't think Clinton, Bush, Kerry, et. al. give a rats ass about olive farmers in Iraq or cattle herders in the Somalia. Geez, democracy arguably doesn't work in this country (evidence: W vs. Kerry, W vs. Gore). Also remember Ghana, a dictatorship, enjoys the highest standard of living of any country in violence-ravaged West Africa.

Its all about the judeo-christian first world's selfish interests. In the middle east, we've got tons of self interest such as:

1. access to cheap oil
2. preservation of open markets and the global economy
3. support for large or powerful ethnic groups (e.g., American Jews and Cubans, French Muslims)
4. Protection against rogue military crackpots

Too bad getting horny gringo tourists laid ain't on the list!

Funny thing about Cuba is that, up until the last year, it was among the easiest places to get laid. As long as you stayed away from minors, Fidel couldn't care less. Now, he's criminalized prostitution to the extent that only the more desperate girls take the risk - and this probably has increased the proportion of underage girls. I must have sent away 20% of the girls I met there because they had no ID (code word for under 18).

[GroobySteven]

Thanks for being so patronising Seaman, I know it's not about democracy which is why I made the statement - fail to see how by you're making it any clearer?
seanchai

[seaman]

Sorry mate, didn't mean to be patronizing. In general, I agreed with your post - it was the others that I took issue with.

I just wanted to clarify, in the context of an anti-Bush post (board? community?), that Bush and the Republicans don't have a monopoly on this nonsense about pursuing democracy. Bush deserves much of his criticism, but as I see it, Clinton dressed up selfish agendas as "protecting freedom" as much as any President. Its just part of the job.

BTW: If you're searching for good objective media coverage in North America, check out the Canadian news that is availble on most satellite systems (think its called CBC). Objective, no spin news.

[GroobySteven]

Like I said, most countries don't vote for a leader they believe in, they vote for getting another one out. Although I think Kerry's heart and direction are in the right place, people should be and will be voting for him to get Bush out.

After the Conservatives fucked the UK up for years people voted for Blair and his New Labour party because they believed in it - and it worked for a while, Blair's had his time and should step aside for a labour leader that has the thoughts of the country and not his own moral views.

After I stopped vomitting after hearing how Blair and Bush prayed together, I realised it was time for him to go.
seanchai

[Realgirls4me]

OK, the rookie responds.

Canihavu - The repbublicans didn't steal the election in 2000, Ralph Nader did. If W is such a moron (which, btw, I suspect he might be), its embarassing that the Dems let the thing get that close.

Realgirls4me - I'm aware of the capitalization rules. I guess I figured I could fly below the MEGABODY radar LOL. Oh, BTW Ace, lets be adults and admit that every president takes crap for things they don't deserve and every party dishes it out equally. W liked coke as much as Clinton loved blowjobs and Billy Carter loved drinkin' beer. The sad part is that due to party politics and the always biased press, we'll never really know the truth about Whitewater, Halliburton, or Chappaquiddick (sp?).

I just wanted to clarify, in the context of an anti-Bush post (board? community?), that Bush and the Republicans don't have a monopoly on this nonsense about pursuing
democracy. Bush deserves much of his criticism, but as I see it, Clinton dressed up selfish agendas as "protecting freedom" as much as any President. Its just part of the job.

Uhhhhh, yes they did steal the election. Gore's terribly run campaign notwithstanding (e.g., Not winning his own home state ???), and the spineless Democratic party to defend him, the machinations of a pro-Bush state and Supreme Court made it all possible.

On the Clinton criticism, I defy you to come up with an administration so servile and compliant to the other side of the aisle as Clinton was (Look at the Republican policies he went along with) to the Gingrich Republicans and get the incessant criticism and treatment he did everyday, be it on talk (hate radio) radio, the internet, the mainstream press, or cable TV. Clinton received the brunt of it -- enough for three administrations. Even his family wasn't spared. I remember seeing the Limbaugh TV show where he told his audience there was a new dog in the White House. He then proceeded to promptly display a picture of a teeny-bop Chelsea. Real class that Limbaugh, huh ? In the eyes of many of his detractors, Clinton could not so much as exhale without some ulterior motive in tote for it.

I only wished the Democratic party would fight back in an eye-for-eye fashion.

[seaman]

Realgirls -

I agree that Clinton was more of a conservative Democrat than Bush is a liberal Republican. Even though I lean conservative I generally liked Clinton's position - particularly 2nd term - more than Bush. That's not the issue. Democrats want to unseat a Republican President and vice versa, regardless of how centrist they are. That's the ill of our 2 party system!

But, you can't honestly claim that the Dems play nice more the the Repubs. Let's go through your claims.

1. Chelsea is ugly = Bush kids are drunks (both true).
2. Everything Clinton did was for sex = Everything Bush does is for oil money.
3. Halliburton contracts=Presidential pardons
4. Clinton didn't inhale = Bush was a coke monger
5. Clinton draft dodger = Bush deserter (funny how NOW, military experience is so vital whereas it was meaningless in war hero Dole vs. draft dodger Clinton)
6. Fahrenheit 911=Rush Limbaugh (both entertaining, opinionated guys that the other side finds totally annoying)
7. Rush's Rx addiction = Michael Moore's cheeseburger addiction

The one uneven parallel is that Laura Bush gets zero flak while Hillary took alot. But, Hillary CHOSE a public life and took risks (and benefited) whereas Laura (and her mother in law) doesn't.

I also love how Bush is accused for sucking up to the oil companies yet Clinton got no press for being a telecom shill (not to mention invested next to nothing in non-traditional energy).

Besides, Clinton had twice the tenure of Bush (to date) so we should expect twice the personal attacks.

I agree with you that American politics is ugly, unproductive, and ultimately doesn't produce the leaders we need. But, both parties and the voting public's insatiable appetite for scandal are to blame.

[GroobySteven]

1. Chelsea is ugly = Bush kids are drunks (both true).
They're drinking underage by choice - Chelsea didn't choose her parents.

2. Everything Clinton did was for sex = Everything Bush does is for oil money.
Let's have more Presidents who want to get laid instead of destroying other countries.

3. Halliburton contracts=Presidential pardons
1 pardon gets a guy out of prison - against 1000's of pardons to make money through the deaths of Americans.

4. Clinton didn't inhale = Bush was a coke monger
Marijuana vs Cocaine....nuff said.

5. Clinton draft dodger = Bush deserter (funny how NOW, military experience is so vital whereas it was meaningless in war hero Dole vs. draft dodger Clinton)
A draft dodger was making a statement again a war, a deserter (of the national guard???) was just a drunk, lazy rich kid.

6. Fahrenheit 911=Rush Limbaugh (both entertaining, opinionated guys that the other side finds totally annoying)
One shows facts (if they're not facts then why is nobody getting sued?) - the other gossip.

7. Rush's Rx addiction = Michael Moore's cheeseburger addiction
Both irrelevant to discussion - the conservative media broke the Rush Rx story not the Dems.

Pretty piss poor - would have expected better comments from you.
seanchai

[peb]

Here's another bush mosaic:

http://artofresistance.nfshost.com/

[seaman]

Sorry I disappointed you but, in truth, I was just trying to add a bit o' levity to the conversation. That said, you've got me on those.

Can we at least agree on my candidate for the Oval Orifice?

Paz e Amor

Sea(thinkingItstimetotalkabouttranniesagain)man

[canihavu]

OK, the rookie responds.

Canihavu - The repbublicans didn't steal the election in 2000, Ralph Nader did. If W is such a moron (which, btw, I suspect he might be), its embarassing that the Dems let the thing get that close.

Realgirls4me - I'm aware of the capitalization rules. I guess I figured I could fly below the MEGABODY radar LOL. Oh, BTW Ace, lets be adults and admit that every president takes crap for things they don't deserve and every party dishes it out equally. W liked coke as much as Clinton loved blowjobs and Billy Carter loved drinkin' beer. The sad part is that due to party politics and the always biased press, we'll never really know the truth about Whitewater, Halliburton, or Chappaquiddick (sp?).

Seanchai - Lets be clear...none of this kuwait, iraq, saudi thing is really about democracy. I don't think Clinton, Bush, Kerry, et. al. give a rats ass about olive farmers in Iraq or cattle herders in the Somalia. Geez, democracy arguably doesn't work in this country (evidence: W vs. Kerry, W vs. Gore). Also remember Ghana, a dictatorship, enjoys the highest standard of living of any country in violence-ravaged West Africa.

Its all about the judeo-christian first world's selfish interests. In the middle east, we've got tons of self interest such as:

1. access to cheap oil
2. preservation of open markets and the global economy
3. support for large or powerful ethnic groups (e.g., American Jews and Cubans, French Muslims)
4. Protection against rogue military crackpots

Too bad getting horny gringo tourists laid ain't on the list!

Funny thing about Cuba is that, up until the last year, it was among the easiest places to get laid. As long as you stayed away from minors, Fidel couldn't care less. Now, he's criminalized prostitution to the extent that only the more desperate girls take the risk - and this probably has increased the proportion of underage girls. I must have sent away 20% of the girls I met there because they had no ID (code word for under 18).

I disagree, the Republics stole that election plain and simple. Ralph Nader must be an undercover Republican. I do agree with the part about the Democrats being an embarrasment, though.

[krueger00]

i'm surprised to see this discussion in such a forum!

to most "normal" people, people like us who enjoy these types of images and discussions are wierd guys. some may even call us sickos... maybe they're right, maybe not...

but anyway... i would expect board visitors here to be especially tolerant towards topics like homosexuality, prostitution, etc. all things where a certain party is not tolerant in any way!

idealising politicians who demonise you...
as i said: surprising to read this!

[seaman]

Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as pro-Bush, pro-religious right, or anti homosexuality and prostitution. Not all those who will vote for Kerry support all his policies (e.g., he supported and continues to support this nonsense in Iraq).

Funny, I long for the socially liberal, economically conservative candidate like Clinton sorta was. Otherwise, if I support free markets and lower taxes, I'm forced to align myself with the moron "family values" homophobes.

[christianrod30]

Kerry is not the best I agree, but Bush is the beast!

[canihavu]

Kerry is not the best I agree, but Bush is the beast!


LOL!!!!! How true!!!!

[seaman]

Yea, I agree, but how do you guys who are anti-war reconcile your support of Kerry when he not only voted for the war but also now says he even would have supported with without WMD evidence? I know Kerry says he would have had a better plan (without any details as to what it would have been) and bigger coalition (assuming that was possible...NOT), but, either way, many men would have died.

In the words of Ralph Nader himself, how can anyone who is against the war not vote for Ralph Nader?

[GroobySteven]

First of all - pro-Bush supporters seem to think the strongest thing is that Bush makes up his mind and sticks to it (I see that as pigheadeness and having blind faith) whereas their biggest detraction from Kerry is that he changes his mind...so what!!! I've changed my mind on multiple issues and I'd rather have someone who will judge the issues on the information at that time and change them when it becomes apparant that the information has changed,
If Bush genuinely believed there was WMD's in Iraq and was not just out to corner the oil and avenge dear daddy (the original sperm of Satan) then fair enough but when it became apparant that his chums and so-called intelligence community lied to him, he should have altered his policies and came clean. I'm not Kerry's biggest fan - would he have went to war based on making money for his family and friends...I don't see any soup or beans coming out of Iraq so it's unlikely.
We need change - it cannot be for the worst unless you're a self-centred middle-class fuck who is only looking out for there own tax breaks.
seanchai

[seaman]

Seanchai - Other than the assertion that Bush went to war to line his own pockets and your unfair insult to those who support lower taxes, I generally agree with you.

Particularly with Kerry's admission of his support of the war, there are few differences between their stated policies other than (1) Rumsfeld's shoddy post-war plan and (2) Kerry's greater patience with the UN. Opinions on the value and future of the UN is a great and healthy debate. Bush's loyalty to Rumsfeld and the deplorable 1990's post cold war intelligence community is pigheadedness and it annoys me.

To call people who support tax cuts "self-centred middle-class fucks" is insulting and, more dangerously, stereotyping. I believe in free trade, globalism, and lower taxes. I also am an active volunteer and donate money to several Foundations. 100% of my business clients are not-for-profits. I care and do something about it. I just don't think bloated government programs are always the answer. If you want to debate that point, lets go ahead. But, don't resort unfair name calling.

BTW: According to the New York Times (no, I don't get my news from Fox), Kerry and Teresa have a pre-nup.

[GroobySteven]

Ok let me clarify on my "tax fucks" as your correct, it is stereo-typing and unfair.
I spoke to a number of people who will vote for Bush to keep their personal taxes lower and their income higher. That is it. That is the one reason they're voting Bush. In my opinion, thet're fucks - they have no clue of the larger picture (although where is the money going to come from for all this war costs eventually). No social conscience, just want to take their annual take-home pay from $80k to $82k.
It's the same with all one-issue voters. I have a friend who will vote anyway which relaxes gun control and know of others will will vote on anti-abortions, it doesn't matter what the other policies might be.
People need to see the big picture and realise, they might need to compromise some of their standpoints for the better of the big picture.
seanchai

[seaman]

Amen, amigo.

The one-issue voters are the problem and the reason the candidates adhere to these platforms that play to voter emotion. To think that stem-cell research is such a hot topic is ludicrous (ludacris?) in the scheme of things but it conveniently polarizes voters.

In reality, the issues that define a successful presidency are rarely known at election time. Its really about character, leadership, and decision-making and I think both candidates fall short of the ideal.

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