Mitch vs The Donald

[bluesoul]

mitch mcconnell aka the hampster accuses donald trump (the don) of having "excessive expectations" for legislative progress. oh snap!

the don, probably in the middle of the mcdonalds big mac, fires back "i don't think so".

oh- this is good. i hope it gets ugly because i know somewhere in iowa, mike pence is masturbating furiously at the thought of him becoming president anytime soon. and for some weird reason, that is funny in mine mind (though not sure why)

with the whole north korea thing and russia thing and trump's numbers every dwindling, this is pretty fun (?) to watch

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/09/politics/mitch-mcconnell-dan-scavino/index.html

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/895347654431035393


please mitch: fire back. and fire back hard!!!

[broncofan]

please mitch: fire back. and fire back hard!!!
It would be entertaining if he did but Mitch has a reputation as a smart guy. If he takes offense at Trump calling him out, he might wait until Trump's more vulnerable and then hurt him. If Mitch went right back at him, he'd have talk radio, rightwing television, alt-right goons, and other thugs all over him. What that could actually do I don't know but nobody wants to deal with that kind of harassment. It is something Mcmaster, Kushner, Priebus, and others have gotten a taste of.

Let's see if Mitch remembers and plays the long game. The fact that Trump hasn't made more enemies like this is testament to the fact that it's hard to hold a grudge when your only concern is party. But if life imitates art, everyone is waiting for the moment when Trump's enemies find it expedient to attack him.

BTW, I think Mitch looks more like a turtle....and given the number of online memes I'm not the only one who thinks it.

[bluesoul]

https://i.imgur.com/uij5g0c.png43 years ago today, henry kissinger resigned as secretary of state to the united states (http://imgur.com/ktKs6be.jpg). he made it short and sweet too, just like a tweet.

here's hoping we can keep this tradition alive (if only, just once more?)

[Stavros]

The key thing I took from this in today's UK newspapers, is that it reveals the President is ignorant, and does not know how Congress works, although I think we knew that anyway. As with Rex Tillerson, another man who can't handle the job, the 'CEO problem' is that in business the CEO issues an order and those beneath him implement it. In the US political system the CEO can say whatever he (or she) wants, but Congress will say 'hmmm... let me think about that...' and often either oppose the President or transform his or her intentions into something else, usually designed to transfer tax payers dollars into their State as intentions become policy.

As for John Kelly, the new master maestro imposing military-style discipline on a chaotic White House, where was he when his President threatened a nuclear war to everyone's surprise and concern? I guess he can discipline everyone except the person most in need of it.

[bluesoul]

kelly said the following about the donald:


Trump gets bored with people easily and has a history of blaming aides for his own missteps. Even Kelly may not be immune. One former aide who has fallen from grace suggested it was only a matter of time. But Kelly is clear-eyed about the mission: it is not so much about “fixing” Trump as it is earning the President’s trust so that he can make repairs to White House operations quickly, before an international incident tests the team.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/08/10/trumps-unhinged-presidency-perfectly-captured-in-two-sentences/?utm_term=.26e3e303b22f

real talk.

also: trump keeps hammering at mitch the snitch (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/895599179522650112). mitch remains mum (http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/09/politics/mitch-mcconnell-dan-scavino/index.html). why?

here's hoping 'shit' hits the fan

peace

[bluesoul]

lol. someone in the don's camp told him to pump the breaks on the attack. mitch still mum. wtf? weekend is coming and we know someone (hint: donald trump- is going golfing) so let's get this going.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/895686351529672704

[broncofan]

The key thing I took from this in today's UK newspapers, is that it reveals the President is ignorant, and does not know how Congress works, although I think we knew that anyway. .
He should not blame Congress for not passing the bill when it would have been a disaster for them if it passed. He should blame his party, and himself for promising to repeal something when he did not have any better ideas. There are Americans who are very opposed to any social welfare programs, but I can't imagine the average person would thinks it's fair to be bankrupted simply because they get sick. This requires too much lack of foresight even for his supporters.

Mitch simply has no courage and even though Trump is losing popularity people in his party also do not have the necessary courage to challenge him. Mitch is depicted as a shrewd partisan operator, so if he doesn't see any percentage in attacking Trump he won't do it.

[bluesoul]

i'm speaking to someone. and we're talking. and we're not agreeing on what we're talking about. so i say: war is good. war separates us, and tells us where we are. dogs fight. cats fight. monkeys fight. why shouldn't we? are we so great that suddenly we should not disagree?

so let's say we do have a war. then what? do we become savages? i don't know. but let me tell you, i will fuck you up pretty bad buddy. so let's get this thing going.

2020: i'm ready

at the very least, the blast will be lovely (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm09JoRhBV8)

[Stavros]

He should not blame Congress for not passing the bill when it would have been a disaster for them if it passed. He should blame his party, and himself for promising to repeal something when he did not have any better ideas. There are Americans who are very opposed to any social welfare programs, but I can't imagine the average person would thinks it's fair to be bankrupted simply because they get sick. This requires too much lack of foresight even for his supporters.

Mitch simply has no courage and even though Trump is losing popularity people in his party also do not have the necessary courage to challenge him. Mitch is depicted as a shrewd partisan operator, so if he doesn't see any percentage in attacking Trump he won't do it.
But Broncofan, the Republicans have had seven years to prepare an alternative health care policy, and had there been a working relationship with the White House the two could have sat down early on in the Presidency to go through it and produce a version bth would support, the only difficulty being objections from Democrats depending on how far the new Bill departed from the old. The key here has always been the relationships in Congress and the relationship between Congress and the President. In the past it was a straight forward battle between White House and Congress, but since 2008 if not before, it has become a struggle for the Republicans to unite and now a 'Republican in name only' President appears to have widened the gap between the Presidency and Congress. For all his boasts about his achievements and his popularity, we could be seeing a Presidential term that in practical terms produces now new laws, and has every executive order challenged in the courts. Assuming this President makes it through the first term. If the Democrats were not so weak and divided themselves, this would all be sweet music to them, as it is, all we hear is a tuneless noise. Rather like the House of Commons when debating Brexit!!

[filghy2]

But Broncofan, the Republicans have had seven years to prepare an alternative health care policy, and had there been a working relationship with the White House the two could have sat down early on in the Presidency to go through it and produce a version bth would support, the only difficulty being objections from Democrats depending on how far the new Bill departed from the old.

The problem is that it is logically impossible to do what they claimed they were going to do, which is to maintain or even improve health insurance coverage for those who need it while spending less and allowing healthy people to opt out. I suspect the true position of the Republican leadership is that economic losers should not get health insurance because that reduces their incentive to become winners, as well as requiring the winners to pay more tax. But obviously they know that's not going to be a popular argument.

Trump's role in this has been clueless (who knew health policy was complicated?), but I doubt he could have made much difference given the inherent contradictions. The joke is that he doesn't realize what a bullet he's dodged. Even the most deluded Trump supporters would probably wake up to reality when they lost their health insurance. A smarter person would be happy to let it go and move on to something else.

[broncofan]

But Broncofan, the Republicans have had seven years to prepare an alternative health care policy, and had there been a working relationship with the White House the two could have sat down early on in the Presidency to go through it and produce a version bth would support, the only difficulty being objections from Democrats depending on how far the new Bill departed from the old. The key here has always been the relationships in Congress and the relationship between Congress and the President.
I agree with your analysis about their lack of organization and coordination but what if they were organized? Part of the objection to Obamacare was visceral and part was based on Ryan's free market agenda. If the objection is visceral that's not going to easily translate into policy and if you want free markets in healthcare, you really are providing lower quality healthcare to reduce burdens on healthier people. It's just becoming too difficult to hide and the cost is human life, which is easier to trace than economic effects.

For sure part of the problem is that Trump and Ryan were not entirely on the same page. When Trump said one version of the bill was "mean", Ryan could have asked him what then are its demerits. I don't know what they could have wanted that would not be anathema to the free-marketers but not also inhumane. The problem they always had was that the objections of many to Obamacare were never grounded in logic, and it was not such an easy area for them to just undo the changes enacted by Obamacare, since the damage would be obvious.

A big mistake they made imo was not dealing with tax reform first. Most people don't understand the tax code, it is difficult to trace the effects of tax policy, and they are probably not going to be divided on tax policy either. I hope I'm wrong but I think they're going to be more successful when it comes to taxes.

[Stavros]

The problem is that it is logically impossible to do what they claimed they were going to do, which is to maintain or even improve health insurance coverage for those who need it while spending less and allowing healthy people to opt out. I suspect the true position of the Republican leadership is that economic losers should not get health insurance because that reduces their incentive to become winners, as well as requiring the winners to pay more tax. But obviously they know that's not going to be a popular argument.

Trump's role in this has been clueless (who knew health policy was complicated?), but I doubt he could have made much difference given the inherent contradictions. The joke is that he doesn't realize what a bullet he's dodged. Even the most deluded Trump supporters would probably wake up to reality when they lost their health insurance. A smarter person would be happy to let it go and move on to something else.

That puts the health care policy dilemma in its perspective, I fully agree with you. In particular the part where the person who led the campaign has failed but blames everyone else for the failure, and as Broncofan put it above, most of the 'policy' was just revenge anyway and not a properly thought-through policy initiative.

[Stavros]

For sure part of the problem is that Trump and Ryan were not entirely on the same page. When Trump said one version of the bill was "mean", Ryan could have asked him what then are its demerits. I don't know what they could have wanted that would not be anathema to the free-marketers but not also inhumane. The problem they always had was that the objections of many to Obamacare were never grounded in logic, and it was not such an easy area for them to just undo the changes enacted by Obamacare, since the damage would be obvious.
A big mistake they made imo was not dealing with tax reform first. Most people don't understand the tax code, it is difficult to trace the effects of tax policy, and they are probably not going to be divided on tax policy either. I hope I'm wrong but I think they're going to be more successful when it comes to taxes.

Being 'on the same page' is clearly not a desirable position because it suits the President's brand to appear to be opposed to Congress and indeed, his own team, to convince his most loyal supporters that he is struggling on his own to Make America Great Again while all around him people are trying to stop him.
He promises war with North Korea, John Kelly and Rex Tillerson say the US is pursuing diplomatic initiatives -all that matters to the President is that his supporters see and hear him standing up for the USA with tough guy talk that they understand and approve of. It doesn't matter if nothing happens, what did happen is that their President pressed the button, the words came out, his supporters cheered. He could even invent a successful missile strike on North Korea and his supporters would believe it happened, and be glad that 'finally' and unlike Obama, a President got off his ass and did something. After all, he made claims about the raid i Yemen which in fact was badly prepared and produced zero intelligence. They cheered him in the Senate for these lies.

I am not sure about tax reform. The problem for this President is that he has bragged about his detailed knowledge of the tax code, but has yet to prove it by producing a simplified version of it. The accumulation of a complex set of rules and compliance issues over many years means that while it might be possible to do the headline stuff such as lowering corporation tax and eliminating tax for low earners, the primary aim for someone like him and his supporters would be to eliminate taxes on a whole range of items, but this would reduce the amount of money the Treasury needs to pay down and manage the debt. Crucially, the farce over health care suggests that with complex legislation, the President, lacking the intellectual skills, will not be able to produce a coherent document that Congress can deal with, or that they will produce something he doesn't approve of or understand. Who knew tax law could be so complicated?

The irony of his claims about voter fraud and the Republican campaigns at voter suppression, is that if low paid people no longer have to pay tax on their earnings, why should they have the vote? No taxation =no representation. Since the poor are mostly Democrats, problem solved. Just as Vladimir Putin helped to solve the problem of the costs to taxpayers of funding all those members of the Diplomatic Corps in Russia, by expelling them -given that the President

has thanked President Vladimir Putin for expelling nearly 800 American diplomats from Russia because it allows the US to "cut down our payroll".
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-putin-thanks-diplomats-russia-expelled-payroll-save-money-a7887361.html

I assume then that these Americans have not just been expelled from Russia, but also fired? Or could it be that they are still on the payroll? But why worry about facts these days?

[filghy2]

Past experience suggests that tax reform is almost as hard as health care - even the much-vaunted 1986 Reagan tax reform only got through on the third attempt. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/28/15992436/obamacare-repeal-tax-reform While Republicans might all agree that tax cuts are a good thing the tricky issue is always how to pay for them. If the cost is not fully offset then they can't be passed through Budget Reconciliation and the legislative hurdle is higher.

[bluesoul]

mike pence is having a good giggle at his website. join him.

http://imgur.com/EGIrCee.jpg

http://www.officialmikepence.com/ (http://www.officialmikepence.com/)

[Stavros]

Past experience suggests that tax reform is almost as hard as health care - even the much-vaunted 1986 Reagan tax reform only got through on the third attempt. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/28/15992436/obamacare-repeal-tax-reform While Republicans might all agree that tax cuts are a good thing the tricky issue is always how to pay for them. If the cost is not fully offset then they can't be passed through Budget Reconciliation and the legislative hurdle is higher.

I was supposed to reply to this here but it ended up in the Thought for the Day thread, but here it is anyway

I agree, and one example of complex taxation that will probably be immune from reform, is provided by the real estate taxes that are far more generous to the owners of Casinos than to home owners, and are the tax breaks that reside in terms like 'depreciation', 'net operating loss', Chapter 11 Bankruptcy declarations -all of which and more, explain how someone can invest other people's money in casinos, lose nearly a billion $$ in a year, and walk away without any liabilities. A good perspective here from the NYT
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ns-losses.html (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/10/07/us/elections/donald-trump-tax-advantages-deductions-losses.html)

[bluesoul]

1025268

and we're right back on course with the b.s. that is donald trump vs mitch and this still stems from his anger that mcconnell couldn't repeal and replace obamacare and mitch's refusal to protect him from investigations from russian interference.

weird. i wonder why he keeps bringing this up (besides of course incompetence)

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-wanted-mcconnell-protect-him-russia-scandal-probe

[Stavros]

Looks like the grudge match is turning into a civil war...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/30/republicans-steve-bannon-trump-establishment-mitch-mcconnell