UK planning age verification for porn sites from April 2018

[rodinuk]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40628909

[timxxx]

Closing the barn door after the horse.................

[Teydyn]

Lol

As if that is going to stop anyone at least halfway computer-savy

[Ts RedVeX]

Bloody communists...

[lifeisfiction]

I don't think people will sit comfortable with having to enter their credit card information to have access to a site. That's a huge issue with security unauthorized payment it would certainly stifle business. Then what do you do about people who post their own amateur stuff. It would be interesting to see how it turns out. Of course I didn't think Brexit was possible so who knows.

[lifeisfiction]

Bloody communists...

We both know Putin wants to destroy Europe.

[holzz]

NOt sure how they would tackle potential account fraud. The tories are a mess at the moment, and this hasn't been well thought out.

[GroobySteven]

Lol

As if that is going to stop anyone at least halfway computer-savy

It won't be about stopping the surfer, it will be about stopping the company. The companies will have to comply otherwise risk getting their sites blocked, billing cancelled and other punitive measures. This is likely to pave the way for Australia, Canada and some US states also considering similar plans.
I'm not completely against it in some form or other, and having seen some of the plans for complying, believe this will help in some ways.

There is an issue when a child can search for 'angel' and be presented with hardcore anal fisting images.

[holzz]

It won't be about stopping the surfer, it will be about stopping the company. The companies will have to comply otherwise risk getting their sites blocked, billing cancelled and other punitive measures. This is likely to pave the way for Australia, Canada and some US states also considering similar plans.
I'm not completely against it in some form or other, and having seen some of the plans for complying, believe this will help in some ways.

There is an issue when a child can search for 'angel' and be presented with hardcore anal fisting images.

How much are age verification apps? would it deter people setting up sites?

[Ts RedVeX]

First they create laws that forbid parents to bring their children up properly and now they say another piece of our freedom has to be taken away because kids don't listen to their parents and watch porn on line... how is that supposed to help anyone but a bunch of commies to keep their posts and carry on making silly laws?

[Gillian]

how is that supposed to help anyone but a bunch of commies to keep their posts and carry on making silly laws?
It won't. Somehow Britons, and more particularly their politicians, have convinced themselves that enacting new laws solves problems. AFAIK, the Blair government broke all records for the amount of legislation it in enacted.

We'll turn into Italy where no one pays any attention to laws and that's a slippery slope ...

[JayneHayle]

Hi

Just joined to ask how the new UK based porn rules coming in April 2018 will affect sites like this and other forums?

Word has it that the Trump administration has plans to implement the same system in the USA

Will we all need to present our credit card details to use and view this and similar sites?


In case anyone has not heard about the new laws here are a couple of links to explain it all

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/porn-block-ban-in-the-uk-age-verifcation-law

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40630582


I guess everyone will say we can simply use a VPN to get around it. I too thought that but as every site will need over 18 age checks I can't see how that would work.

In the UK there will be a new government department set up to allow reporting of sites that don't comply with the over 18 checks, resulting in ISP providers blocking access to the sites. If they don't they can be fined up to £250,000 per violation

[GroobySteven]

You won't need to use your credit card.

You joined this forum JUST to make this post which isn't specific to trans content?

[JayneHayle]

Sorry, I meant just joined as in joined a few mins ago

[JayneHayle]

It won't be about stopping the surfer, it will be about stopping the company. The companies will have to comply otherwise risk getting their sites blocked, billing cancelled and other punitive measures. This is likely to pave the way for Australia, Canada and some US states also considering similar plans.
I'm not completely against it in some form or other, and having seen some of the plans for complying, believe this will help in some ways.

There is an issue when a child can search for 'angel' and be presented with hardcore anal fisting images.

That sounds like ALL sites worldwide that feature explicit images, WILL eventually have to comply with the new rules then?

This site included?

How will it affect the likes of social media sites like Twitter, Flicker etc? Facebook already bans porn images


I suspect this the end of porn as we know it as I for one wouldn't feel comfortable handing over my credit card details to a porn company in light of the Ashley Maddison fiasco.


Hope its not back to the days of seedy back street adult shops and brown paper bags!!!!

[Ts RedVeX]

All legislation of this kind is about stopping the company. Especially the one that does not want to pay ransom in some form of a "license". The Club of Rome's (and the EU's) communist agenda of stopping any development in any field, apparently in porn as well - since global warming isn't working out as planned, in order to stop overpopulating Earth has been achieved and yet the retards haven't had enough yet! Cannot wait till negative interest rates emerge and people won't want to have money at all...

That is what democracy is all about. The majority of idiots elect the biggest idiot to represent them and make socialist laws that seem to be good for the idiot collective at first glance - be it women, homosexuals, black people, etc... Then it turns out that the elected "Idiot King" only has so much time to steal as much money as possible, before the following election. The effect is, The Idiot King wants to enforce as many idiotic laws as possible, get a bunch of people out of the idiots' collectives - feminists, LGBT activists, black lives matter, etc... respectively, and give them whatever idiotic legislation those activists, who allegedly represent their collectives, fight for and then be remembered as a good politician thanx to mass media or even be reelected - if their laws are extremely bad. So in this particular case, parents, who cannot tell their child off or spank it to make sure it does not watch porn because it is "politically incorrect" and illegal to spank the statutory child's ass, need another idiotic law that makes sure the child does not visit porn sites. Fucking logical innit? And who is the bad guy? GroobySteven - of course, and a bunch of other Sodomites like Redvex and any other who dares to make a living!

By the way, lifesfiction, you might want to put your drugs away for a while - at least until you have realised it is the 21st century now, at least if one looks at the date.

[skirtrustler]

In principle there is nothing wrong with age verification, and owning a credit card is the only truly portable current proof that you are not a minor (fraud excepted). CCBILL can be configured to only accept credit cards (as opposed to stored value and debit cards). Experience (under UK ATVOD regime) also shows that people are willing to provide pictures of driving licences or selfies holding a hand written verification message.

The two problems the UK are (1) that the powers that be have not thought this through - they are politicians - and are relying on the industry to come up with a solution, and (2) the weird UK view of what constitutes unacceptable pornography and the R18 classification (e.g. fisting and face sitting are banned under R18 .. since ‘sexually aroused adults cannot be trusted to act as adults’).

The concept of age verification to control access to video on demand (VOD) services is set out clearly in the EU-AVMSD (Audio Visual Media Services Directive), so it is going to happen. However, this explicitly makes statements against individual member states making their own intermediate classifications such as R18, rather than the outright illegal porn (corpses, kids, actual bodily harm, and animals). This later point is open to expensive judicial review once a legal aid funded test case can be set up.

There are technical solutions, and both U2F / FIDO technology and / or blockchain models look like they could work together without creating a searchable list of porn consumers. Anyone who is interested can google on those. Blockchain (the hyper-ledger variant) technologies allow a number of untrusting partners (e.g. big porn operators, banks etc) to build a system of trust, then on top of that U2F / FIDO devices would provide a means of proving identity. These latter devices are supported by modern Android phones and the iPhone X, plus laptop PC already, and can be used to secure google services, github, and others. In this way you would only need to prove your age once, and your bank could do that seamlessly, and even without knowing it was for porn consumption

Interesting times ahead.

[Ts RedVeX]

Everything is wrong with owning a credit card. One should not be allowed to spend money they have never made. - E.g. theresa may, who probably had never even seen a million pounds in her lousy life wanted the peoples of the UK to pay over 600quid each for her brexit bill that would not guarantee shit for the country. Just like that. - Unless of course you have a family, then you need to multiply that 600quid by the number of members of your family whom are your dependants.

The 2 problems are: 1)Communists 2)Socialists, who collectively could be called bandits

Get rid of them from politics and we will all get back to normality. Any other "technical problems" are artificial

[dakota87]

So will magazines and dvds be making a comeback? I’m leery of giving out personal info in this age of identity theft.

[skirtrustler]

I’m leery of giving out personal info in this age of identity theft.

Because of EU GDPR (General Data Protection Regulations) your information is safest within an EU based / operated website as the law is strict and potential fines are massive. The idea of age verification is ideally that you leverage something like your bank -who already know your age - in such a way that you can prove your age anonymously and without creating a searchable register of ‘porn users’.

With the previous UK ATVOD regime the standard of age verification required was the same as required to buy a DVD in a shop. The shop don’t keep your photo or proof of ID, and on the web sites of concern (separate web sites to our esteemed host here) the proof of age was thus not kept after it had been used.

Obviously there are dodgy scam websites, who will move out of the EU, just as there are shops that will skim your credit card or short change you.

[Laphroaig]

Everything is wrong with owning a credit card. One should not be allowed to spend money they have never made.

Presumably you're against the idea of mortgages and home ownership as well then? How many people have £200,000 sitting in a bank account to buy an average house in the UK outright. World runs on credit, whether you like it or not...:shrug

[Ts RedVeX]

There is nothing wrong with private ownership and I would like to live to see times where people can actually own stuff without having to ask state officials if the roof on their house should be covered with felt or tiles.

Card payments in general enable close monitoring of where what and by whom is being bought. You can, of course use them if you don't mind, but as you may assume after reading some of the posts, poeple do mind using them in some cases. The problem with spending money one has never earned is a totally different matter. If you want to borrow money without knowing what it takes to earn it then you are very likely to get into trouble. In reference to average people, if someone decides to lend money, then it is between him and the other person. However, if you let somebody like May decide about whether you and your family are going to be able to afford to buy that car next year, or go on a family holiday, then that is totally wrong and irresponsible.

As to adult-oriented sites and kids, computers are tools and children should be under adult supervision when using them. - Ideally, under supervision of their parents. Only that effective supervision may be difficult due to all the laws that threaten parents with jail for attempts of delivering children a decent upbringing, or give the parents a false sense of assurance, e.g. that the state will take the burden of making sure that child does not see a tit on the Internet, off the parents shoulders, effectively making the parents less vigilant.

[holzz]

prepaid credit cards are better. but I think Mrs. May will hav brexit on her hands, or even keeping in office, to worry about this porn bill shit.

[skirtrustler]

prepaid credit cards are better.

There is no such thing as a prepaid credit card.

There are credit cards (including charge cards such as AMEX where you pay it all off at the end of the month), debit cards (which charge direct to your bank account), and prepaid/stored value cards (somewhat untraceable and anonymous); they all have a sixteen digit number. You can tell which it is by looking up the BIN (first six digits) via many services. Nowhere in the world is a minor allowed a credit card, making it a universal proof of ID and adulthood; anyone with a bank account can have a debit card (age 13 in the UK), and anyone can have a stored value card. They each have their place in the market. Payment systems like CCBILL can be configured to differente these and accept only credit cards: I.e. adults.


Mrs. May will hav brexit on her hands, or even keeping in office, to worry about this porn bill shit.

Agreed. For the time being.

BREXIT does mean in the long term that there will no EU redress against the additional UK ‘nanny state’ R18 category, which is not allowed under EU-AVMSD.

The other reason why this may not be followed through is that in UK we have all age verified our broadband and mobile connections (and thus our porn filters); and quite arguably in court this meets the requirement to keep porn under adult supervision.

[JayneHayle]

The other reason why this may not be followed through is that in UK we have all age verified our broadband and mobile connections (and thus our porn filters); and quite arguably in court this meets the requirement to keep porn under adult supervision.

That won't stop the under 18's in the household from accessing porn on their bedroom laptops. Most kids can turn off the security installed by their parents. That's if any parents know are savvy enough to install any!

In any case as already mentioned.... it's the Company that needs the over 18 check.... NOT the consumer.

It will affect ALL porn sites around the globe eventually not just UK based Porn sites

I can see the likes of UK sites like tvchix, Bluepixels, FAB, joannajet etc all vanishing as no one in their right mind would want to hand over their personal bank details to sites like those.

[GroobySteven]

That won't stop the under 18's in the household from accessing porn on their bedroom laptops. Most kids can turn off the security installed by their parents. That's if any parents know are savvy enough to install any!

Correct and the government is aware of this and it's not an issue. This law is not intended as a stop all and it's not intended to stop 14+ yr olds finding some way to access (the same as they'd find a way to get smokes/booze if they wanted). It's to stop 8 year old's searching for 'angels' and accidentally finding 'anal angels', which I think any responsible adult would agree is a problem.
My kids are 7 and 9 and need to use the internet to do homework.



In any case as already mentioned.... it's the Company that needs the over 18 check.... NOT the consumer.
Correct, it's going to be the website's responsibility to adhere to the rules. How they choose to do that is up to them - there are a number of programs/solutions being worked on.



It will affect ALL porn sites around the globe eventually not just UK based Porn sites
It will affect all porn sites immediately. We can't not sell to the UK as the market is too big but if we don't adhere, then we can have a $250k fine, get delisted in Google, have our processing stopped and have the IP blocked. It's expected that Australia and Canada will follow soon after.



I can see the likes of UK sites like tvchix, Bluepixels, FAB, joannajet etc all vanishing as no one in their right mind would want to hand over their personal bank details to sites like those.
You're thinking this just affects UK sites. It doesn't. UK based sites have had to be compliant to this for a few years already. You will not be able to get to ANY porn sites, tube sites, blogs, or HungAngels.com without being verified if you live in or are a visitor to the UK. Those that know how to use proxies will be able to get around it but any sites/company seen to be promoting that would be liable to the same issues.



Nowhere in the world is a minor allowed a credit card, making it a universal proof of ID and adulthood; anyone with a bank account can have a debit card (age 13 in the UK), and anyone can have a stored value card. They each have their place in the market. Payment systems like CCBILL can be configured to differente these and accept only credit cards: I.e. adults.
We process much more debit cards then credit in the UK. This would not be a good solution for us. You're also getting too caught up in the fact that it's pay sites only. What about the free sites that people want to see?


The other reason why this may not be followed through is that in UK we have all age verified our broadband and mobile connections (and thus our porn filters); and quite arguably in court this meets the requirement to keep porn under adult supervision.
That would have been addressed two years ago. This is going ahead.

What does this mean for consumers? You're likely to have to verify your age in someway. As most people don't want the government to know what they're doing (as if they're not watching and recording where you spend your online time anyway) then there are third party solutions. As a consumer you will either have to signup online to a company who will then verify your age based on your ID/info that you are putting in and match it (in the same way you get a credit score). That data will then have to be destroyed but you will have a 'key'. Another way to get the 'key' is to go into a convenience store/petrol station and in the same way you have to prove you're over 18 to get booze, you will be able to buy a 'card', this will have the key on. This will keep anonymity.
Once you've entered the key into your system/browser then you should not have to enter it again. It's being touted that to get this online would be £1 per person - or in the convenience store, £10. This would work on all websites using this system. This is not the only system that is being worked on.

For the companies/websites? You have some choices. What you don't have is a choice whether to be compliant or not. You can either make the free parts of your sites PG - and then at the payment area, include the 'key'. Or you can include the 'key' firewall before the tour. It's likely that for HungAngels we'd block anyone not a member from having access to anything other than the PG front page and then include the 'key' are where you login.

There are positives on this. I support the fact that it should be harder to just come across (no pun intended) porn online. I long campaigned for self-regulation in the adult industry but when working with many thieves, pirates and bell-ends, it doesn't happen. Many of those bell-ends and thieves will not be able to come compliant, thus the herd is thinned for people seeking real porn. By limiting the access this way, we're only going to get people who do want to join, thus cutting down on overheads.

I'd suggest anyone in the industry who wants to discuss this further, join our new industry forum at TSChatter.com where I'll be posting more on how to work on this, and issues as we get closer.